Did Lei'shen do anything wrong?

[Narwhalosh Whalescream]

He'd have united azeroth under the gentle but iron fist hegemony of the mogu, kicking out all nasty stuff like demons, undead and old god goo. Azeroth would have prospered in a new age of wondrous prosperity and peaceful global dominance of the titans.
Pros:
He has two named weapons with flavour text
His crown is crackling with lightning
Mogu electricity generators to power Azeroth!
Barechested
An humanist alternative to the depredations and decadence of the horde and the alliance

[VinceVega]

Some people may not be that inclined to fall into slavery... but hey. They have a united pandaria. Should be gratefull these little furry bastards and crocs.

[Phookah]

Slavery is bad mmmmmkay

[Fincayra]

If I remember right, any Pandaren that disobeyed were publicly vivisected. So yeah, he did a few things wrong.

[Super Dickmann]

He trusted trolls, despite them having a 100% rate of failure. And like everyone else who made that mistake it bit him in the ass.

[Lora]

He'd have united azeroth under the gentle but iron fist hegemony of the mogu, kicking out all nasty stuff like demons, undead and old god goo. Azeroth would have prospered in a new age of wondrous prosperity and peaceful global dominance of the titans.
Pros:
He has two named weapons with flavour text
His crown is crackling with lightning
Mogu electricity generators to power Azeroth!
Barechested
An humanist alternative to the depredations and decadence of the horde and the alliance

I mean slavery, torture and corruption of a titan watcher, and otherwise being a cruel tyrannical ruler. If you ignore all that then sure he was a good guy.

[Khaza-R]

He trusted trolls, despite them having a 100% rate of failure. And like everyone else who made that mistake it bit him in the ass.

Troll failure rate is something exceptional in warcraft...

Almost a meme at this point, honestly.

[Caerule]

Lei'shen's plans of conquest were poorly planned to begin with. Sure, Pandaria had resources. But it was a powder keg of Sha activity and other problems too. The Zandalari empire would have imploded soon without the Horde. I don't see him having anywhere near the numbers to take more than Pandaria. And he's supposed to take all the Horde and Alliance lands and Dalaran and stuff?

As for what he did wrong? The slavery. Also, I don't see why you think he would cleanse the world of corruption. The Mogu clans have necromancers, Sha power users, and there's no reason why they wouldn't pick up fel magic if it became more available. They already work with souls and life force. Pandaria's just been isolated from the Legion by the mists, until recently.

[Mehrunes]

Troll failure rate is something exceptional in warcraft...

Exceptional? It's pretty much par for the course. Night Elves brought the Legion to Azeroth, imploded the world, caused the Emerald Nightmare, triggered the War of the Shifting Sands, got their teeth kicked in by the Horde. Stormwind, prior to becoming the writers' pet nation with near-infinite plot armor, in the span of less than a century got almost obliterated by the Gnolls, the memory of the Gurrubashi Empire and then got stomped on by the vanguard of the Old Horde. All of that despite experiencing literal millennia of prosperity prior to that. Gnomes genocided themselves. Tauren decided to be led by Baine who exiled them for defending themselves, justified their enemy, warned the enemy of Horde plans that allowed them to prepare themselves and consequently kill more Tauren and their allies and finally started killing his own allies. Goblins explode themselves on daily basis. So on and so forth.

[Varodoc]

I'm of the idea that images often say a lot more than words, so I'll just leave this:

[Salty Schro]

In HotS we do see a Storm King allied Chen, which implied that if he won he would of made them part of his army. It even implies they are close to breaking the night elves. It's possible he would have avoided many of the problems in the current timeline.

[Fincayra]

Lei'shen's plans of conquest were poorly planned to begin with. Sure, Pandaria had resources. But it was a powder keg of Sha activity and other problems too. The Zandalari empire would have imploded soon without the Horde. I don't see him having anywhere near the numbers to take more than Pandaria. And he's supposed to take all the Horde and Alliance lands and Dalaran and stuff?

As for what he did wrong? The slavery. Also, I don't see why you think he would cleanse the world of corruption. The Mogu clans have necromancers, Sha power users, and there's no reason why they wouldn't pick up fel magic if it became more available. They already work with souls and life force. Pandaria's just been isolated from the Legion by the mists, until recently.

Lei Shen conquered quite a bit of the world, and was only beaten by his own hubris (and a reorigination engine, a literal weapon of mass destruction). There's been numerous threads of "who could beat Lei Shen," and all of them just compare power levels of "well this guy beat this guy, and that guy beat this guy, and so he could beat Lei Shen." Everyone he was tested against he beat. If the reorigination engine had not existed, who knows where Lei Shen's empire would have finally halted. For my own guess, I think the rise of the Lich King would have been a severe test to Lei Shen's empire, and if the two leaders had duked it out, I really don't know who would have won, since even in Throne of Thunder we faced a weakened Lei Shen.

Yes, I've mentioned earlier in the thread how his slavery was a bad thing that he did. That may lead to a thousand year empire, but on year 1001, the revolt happens because you've spread yourself too thin. Alliances are far more preferred to slavery. He showed this with the Zandalari, if only because they had the powers of resurrection.

People shit on Mists for being a shit expansion, but it was literally the last expansion with decent lore in Warcraft. I will forever remember the fun I had questing and leveling up the farm, and the raids were all excellent, even the Mantid raid, which was the weakest of the xpac, but far better than most raids in some xpacs.

[Thokri]

If I remember right, any Pandaren that disobeyed were publicly vivisected. So yeah, he did a few things wrong.

Killing pandaren is never wrong.

Best part of mogu was that they reduced numbers of those parasites.

[Sondrelk]

Lei'shen's plans of conquest were poorly planned to begin with. Sure, Pandaria had resources. But it was a powder keg of Sha activity and other problems too. The Zandalari empire would have imploded soon without the Horde. I don't see him having anywhere near the numbers to take more than Pandaria. And he's supposed to take all the Horde and Alliance lands and Dalaran and stuff?

As for what he did wrong? The slavery. Also, I don't see why you think he would cleanse the world of corruption. The Mogu clans have necromancers, Sha power users, and there's no reason why they wouldn't pick up fel magic if it became more available. They already work with souls and life force. Pandaria's just been isolated from the Legion by the mists, until recently.

Not sure why you think his plans were that poorly thought out. Made perfect sense to me.
He had the power and will to do what he considered correct, that being subjugating all non-titanforged under his rule so he could finish what he considered the Titans work.
Not sure where you see he has Sha infused spellcasters in his army, necromancers sure, but not sha. And even with that, he had no idea the sha came from the old gods.

His plan for world conquest failed because the Tol'vir used the forge of origination to decimate his armies while he was planning on conquering it. So he only really lost to a weapon he had no idea about and had no feasible means of defending from.


He would have lost eventually, sure. But not because he was an idiiot about things, he either would have lost because of matters entirely out of his control, or the way he did lose, because he assumed other loyal itanforged had the same idea about how to same the world as him.

[Minikin]

Exceptional? It's pretty much par for the course. Night Elves brought the Legion to Azeroth, imploded the world, caused the Emerald Nightmare, triggered the War of the Shifting Sands, got their teeth kicked in by the Horde. Stormwind, prior to becoming the writers' pet nation with near-infinite plot armor, in the span of less than a century got almost obliterated by the Gnolls, the memory of the Gurrubashi Empire and then got stomped on by the vanguard of the Old Horde. All of that despite experiencing literal millennia of prosperity prior to that. Gnomes genocided themselves. Tauren decided to be led by Baine who exiled them for defending themselves, justified their enemy, warned the enemy of Horde plans that allowed them to prepare themselves and consequently kill more Tauren and their allies and finally started killing his own allies. Goblins explode themselves on daily basis. So on and so forth.

I think that's also grandfathered into the troll counter cuz as per the nightborne "lol you are descended from trolls!"

So I guess when sylvanas made the greatest fire the east has ever seen she smacked down on the trolls too XD

[Feanoro]

(His Mythic fight sure didn't do much for my opinion of his intellect. Also, he was a pretty obvious pastiche of Chinese commies.)

Only half seriously:

- He trusted trolls, who only talk a mean fight.
- Pretty sure enslaving a Titan keeper and slowly draining his blood for eons isn't good.
- He didn't exterminate the pandas.
- He didn't exterminate the mantid.

- - - Updated - - -

snip

Can you please not derail yet another thread in your endless campaign to shit on the Alliance? Especially when it involves twisting the everloving hell out of the lore?

[Sondrelk]

(His Mythic fight sure didn't do much for my opinion of his intellect. Also, he was a pretty obvious pastiche of Chinese commies.)

Only half seriously:

- He trusted trolls, who only talk a mean fight.
- Pretty sure enslaving a Titan keeper and slowly draining his blood for eons isn't good.
- He didn't exterminate the pandas.
- He didn't exterminate the mantid.

- - - Updated - - -

Can you please not derail yet another thread in your endless campaign to shit on the Alliance? Especially when it involves twisting the everloving hell out of the lore?

He never trusted trolls, he very explicitly were using them because they were convenient as a large army, and he didnt want to fight them head on.
He enslaved a titan keeper because he figured that titan keeper was doing a bad job in general, and his life would be much better served under him.
He didnt exterminate the pandas because they were slaves, removing your work force is a pretty bad move overall.
He didnt exterminate the Mantid because marching into the heart of their empire wasnt worth it, so he setteld for making the serpents spine and then removing the trees the mantid require to survive everywhere east of that wall.

[Mehrunes]

Killing pandaren is never wrong.

Best part of mogu was that they reduced numbers of those parasites.

If only they killed the ancestors of Moron Zhu. Then we'd be spared War Crimes, WoD and everything that came afterwards.

I think that's also grandfathered into the troll counter cuz as per the nightborne "lol you are descended from trolls!"

So I guess when sylvanas made the greatest fire the east has ever seen she smacked down on the trolls too XD

The Nightborne kinda burned themselves with that. Just like they burned themselves by dropping their shields and letting the Legion in. Also, why east?

Can you please not derail yet another thread in your endless campaign to shit on the Alliance? Especially when it involves twisting the everloving hell out of the lore?

I was addressing an on-point remark about the Trolls so spare me your backseat moderation. And Tauren and Goblins are indeed the core races of the Alliance Also just lol at the remark about "twisting the everloving shit out of the lore" when, unlike some people, I can source each and every thing I mentioned there. Not that this remark means anything coming from someone spreading fanfiction as incessantly as you, because you wouldn't know actual lore if it stared you straight in the face, so how could you even recognize whether it's being twisted or not.

[Kyphael]

Normally when you have to ask, "did so and so do anything wrong?" 90% of the time, the answer is yes.

[naeblis495]

I'm of the idea that images often say a lot more than words, so I'll just leave this:

urgh , you're right , this IS horrible

those "ropes" textures that is .