Cut off the arm to save the body.

[Kaver]

So how much time did Azerite take versus other developments that are gear related? Since you know you should be able to share it. Azerite was an evolution from Artifacts and Tier Sets. Azerite gear doesn't add a lot of negatives. It is funny how each time you respond you keep changing the argument. First it was no value. Now it is lots of negatives.

Azerite gear also adds no more RNG then normal gear drops. It pretty much adds less since your source of azerite gear is increased when compared to tier sets and raid drops. You also stated you've used the same traits for all of the expansion. Which means it couldn't have been that bad of an RNG if you've managed to always get it.

I don't think you can see it from my point of view because iirc you don't do any content where the gear actually matters. Having a BiS piece of Azerite has a huge impact on my competitiveness and if that piece of Azerite comes from the Titan Residuum vendor then it is locked behind heavy RNG or a completely ridiculous time frame. But if all you do is LFR then you will never be able to see the negative effects from my view point.

Btw, if you read my original post or some of my other posts in this thread, you will see that I used the negatives of the system as an arguement from the beginnig. The whole point of evaluating the system is the negative impact versus the positive impact (or value). And the positive impact is very very small while the negative impact is huge.

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You need to realize that just because you think it doesn't work, doesn't mean that they think it doesn't work or that everyone else thinks it doesn't work. Basically what you are saying is "Remove anything I don't like. Cater the game solely to me and what I want".

Blizzard knew the system was broken from the beginning. That's why they had to revamp it after launch. And it still doens't add any value. Do you think it does?

[Sondrelk]

Back in Legion, some players waited nearly the entire length of the expansion to get their BiS Legiondary. Yet somehow this system is remembered more fondly. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

This happens with surprising consistency with each expansion.

Back in Legion i remember there being nothing bur scorn for M+ being horrible, Suramar being timegated and boring, Artifact being a pointless grind, more so if you had alts and Legiondaries being the worst system to ever graze the system.

The suddenly BfA came around and everyone started talking about how M+ was so much better in Legion, Suramar being perfect all the time everytime, Artifacts being a passive grind that noone cared to minmax and Legiondaries to be this amazing system that worked like talents.

I still remember i waited the entirety of Legion to get the Legiondary leggings for Arcane because that would actually make the class fun to play, and i never got it.

[Kaver]

But it does have an impact on game play. It increases the output of your character since you said it is required to be competitive. That is part of game play.

That's not a positive impact. It's not making the game anymore fun or engaging.

It also adds more to game play then normal gear which just adds stats.

Well not really. Most of the traits doesn't change the way you play your character. And normal gear doesn't take a lot of money to develop. And it doesn't add heavy RNG to your competitiveness.

[Relapses]

Blizzard knew the system was broken from the beginning. That's why they had to revamp it after launch. And it still doens't add any value. Do you think it does?

What should Blizzard have done? Stopped beta half-way through and said, "WELL FUCK AZERITE GEAR SUCKS WE'RE GONNA REDESIGN EVERYTHING" and push back development another 3 or more months? Hidesight's 20/20 and I think it's pretty stupid to think that Blizzard can operate like that. They took a gamble with Azerite gear. They patched it and tried to make it work but it still failed. It won't be continuing into the next expansion. That's the beginning and end of the story. I really don't understand why you're so obsessed with holding Blizzard accountable for a failed design choice that is only impacting this single expansion (that's on its way on the door anyway).

[Sondrelk]

I don't think you can see it from my point of view because iirc you don't do any content where the gear actually matters. Having a BiS piece of Azerite has a huge impact on my competitiveness and if that piece of Azerite comes from the Titan Residuum vendor then it is locked behind heavy RNG or a completely ridiculous time frame. But if all you do is LFR then you will never be able to see the negative effects from my view point.

Btw, if you read my original post or some of my other posts in this thread, you will see that I used the negatives of the system as an arguement from the beginnig. The whole point of evaluating the system is the negative impact versus the positive impact (or value). And the positive impact is very very small while the negative impact is huge.

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Blizzard knew the system was broken from the beginning. That's why they had to revamp it after launch. And it still doens't add any value. Do you think it does?

And that BiS piece of Azerite is somehow measurably different from having a Titanforged tier set with socket?
And getting a Mythic Azerite piece from a vendor just from doing what amounts to a middling difficulty dungeon each week for a couple months is a luxury players back in the day could only dream of. Imagine the outrage if in WotLK you could literally buy Mythic tier set pieces from a vendor.

[rrayy]

Blizzard knew the system was broken from the beginning. That's why they had to revamp it after launch. And it still doesn't add any value. Do you think it does?

It wasn't a revamp. It was an evolution. They have done that with both iterations., And yes it does add value for me. The point of your thread is what I said it was. Anything you don't like you want removed and you want Blizzard to cater solely to you.

[Sondrelk]

That's not a positive impact. It's not making the game anymore fun or engaging.



Well not really. Most of the traits doesn't change the way you play your character. And normal gear doesn't take a lot of money to develop. And it doesn't add heavy RNG to your competitiveness.

It is not making hte game fun or engaging to you not to everyone else. I can almost guarantee you that there are loads of people that like Azerite, and a mass majority that does not care nearly enoug has you think they do.

[Nnyco]

So you think that getting some chains between you and your pet justifies all the money which Blizzard used to develop this system? Money which could have been used for something else. Do you really think Helchains count as a fun and engaging customization option?

Considerin its literally the same as tier-sets, you just seem to overestimate how much actually went into the system.

Not to mention that wasnt even the question, you asked if theres cutomization, which i provided.

[Kaver]

And that BiS piece of Azerite is somehow measurably different from having a Titanforged tier set with socket?
And getting a Mythic Azerite piece from a vendor just from doing what amounts to a middling difficulty dungeon each week for a couple months is a luxury players back in the day could only dream of. Imagine the outrage if in WotLK you could literally buy Mythic tier set pieces from a vendor.

I don't like Titanforging or random sockets.

I do +20 M+ keys. So I find it very negative that players who are doing low level M+ keys (+10-15) can get the same Azerite gear as me while I cannot speed up the process significantly even though I do very difficult content and put in a lot of effort.

[Sondrelk]

Considerin its literally the same as tier-sets.

Considering most tier sets in Legion were mostly "Gain X% stat when using Y" or maybea cooldown reduction or 2 i would argue that abilities like Magus of the dead are far more interesting than tier sets.

[Kaver]

Considerin its literally the same as tier-sets, you just seem to overestimate how much actually went into the system.

Considering that Blizzard used a lot of money to develop it, then it should be much better than tier-sets. But it's not. So the investment has been for nothing.

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It wasn't a revamp. It was an evolution. They have done that with both iterations., And yes it does add value for me. The point of your thread is what I said it was. Anything you don't like you want removed and you want Blizzard to cater solely to you.

Blizzard admitted that the gear was not working at launch.

How does the Azerite gear add value to you? It should be easy to answer.

[Nnyco]

Considering that Blizzard used a lot of money to develop it, then it should be much better than tier-sets. But it's not. So the investment has been for nothing.

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Blizzard admitted that the gear was not working at launch.

How does the Azerite gear add value to you? It should be easy to answer.

So where you got that information from that they spend a lot of money to develop it? Or are we just pulling numbers out of our arse now.

Its clearly about equal amount of work that had to put into azerite traits similar to tier sets.

[Sondrelk]

Considering that Blizzard used a lot of money to develop it, then it should be much better than tier-sets. But it's not. So the investment has been for nothing.

And what, in your mind, constitutes better than tier sets? Could it be things like summoning a magus of the dead for Unholy DKs making their class more like a necromancer? Or a Monk being able to be rewarded for playing well by getting a massive buff in addition to summoning Xuen? Or maybe something like what happened to MM in Uldir where Azerite powers completely changed your playstyle to something where you built up a spender for a while and released it with a massive 100k crit?

[Biomega]

Acquisition method aside, Legiondaries were about as good as it gets for that kind of mechanic - it's a single item so slots don't get locked in (the downside of tier sets) but you get a powerful and often playstyle-altering effect (the upside of tier sets). Also the mix-and-match based on encounters was easy and straightforward and actually INCREASED loot variety because it created virtual slots (need more items to swap in) rather than effectively removing slots (since 4 slots are reserved for tier pieces).

Corruption is one step forward, two steps back. It was well-intentioned but horribly executed.

Tier sets would be two steps back, zero steps forward.

[Kaver]

What should Blizzard have done? Stopped beta half-way through and said, "WELL FUCK AZERITE GEAR SUCKS WE'RE GONNA REDESIGN EVERYTHING" and push back development another 3 or more months?

No they should just have bitten the bullet and scrapped the system completely. No need to add something to the game when it only makes the gaming experience worse.

[Paperfox]

I literally remove corruption from every character i got.
I aint doing progressive raiding nor top mythic+ so i dont need whatever damage bonuses corruption effects give.

I was trying to find a way to enjoy the corruption mechanic for weeks but in the end just removing it was the best choice for my enjoyment of gameplay.
No bullsh*t slow, no suicide illusions, no purple eye... awful unfun mechanics.

Do you know what the quickest way of getting to the point where you can cleanse the gear is? I'm at the point where once a toon gets to an iLevel of about 410, they I just park them. thanks in advance

[Kaver]

And what, in your mind, constitutes better than tier sets? Could it be things like summoning a magus of the dead for Unholy DKs making their class more like a necromancer? Or a Monk being able to be rewarded for playing well by getting a massive buff in addition to summoning Xuen? Or maybe something like what happened to MM in Uldir where Azerite powers completely changed your playstyle to something where you built up a spender for a while and released it with a massive 100k crit?

When Blizzard spend a lot of time and money on developing a system then that system shoulder do better than what Azerite gear does. Much better. Especially when it also adds a lot of negative impact based on RNG. What you describe is not any interesting or engaging changes to your gameplay. It's not enough at all.

[Raone]

Blizzard need to much more critical when it comes to their own work. If something doesn't work, then just drop it. Don't spend months trying to save a lost cause only to end up with something which makes the game worse. With systems like the Azerite gear which from the beginning clearly didn't work they just need to make a clear cut and remove it from the game instead of using a lot of resources trying to fix something which is already lost. Azerite gear brought much more negatives to the game than positives and adding systems like that is only damaging. Especially when they use extra resources on them. Only a very small minority of players are going to look back at the Azerite gear with any positive feelings. The same thing can be said about the corruption gear. The situations where you feel bad because of the corruption just massively outweighs the times when you feel good. They shouldn't spend time and resources on these systems which just have a overall negative impact on the game. If something clearly doesn't work, they just need to put their proudness aside and cut it from the game. Simple as that.

If your game has fun content people will play it. Don't add negatives to it.

The problem is if you cut the arm off, you might have more problems than you would've had if you kept it. A lot of classes were balanced around Azerite armor, once you remove all those traits you need to go and balance every spec again. What they should've done is just made Azerite armor more abundant so its easy to get tons of it and get all the traits you want, and not keeping it so rare and annoying to get. Instead of removing it, make it forgettable and not be in the way etc. By the time they released Azerite armor and realised it was flawed it was too late beta was pretty much over.

Corruption on the other hand is more of an experiment then an expansion wide feature. I think they went heavy on the RNG/Power gains to see what works and what doesn't for the next "Titanforge" system.

[Kaver]

So where you got that information from that they spend a lot of money to develop it? Or are we just pulling numbers out of our arse now.

Its clearly about equal amount of work that had to put into azerite traits similar to tier sets.

No number were pulled out. Everyone knows that a system like the Azerite gear takes a lot of time to develop.

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The problem is if you cut the arm off, you might have more problems then you would've had if you kept it, and by the time they released Azerite armor and realized it was flawed it was too late and already live.

But they got PLENTY of feedback before the game went live. Why did they just ignore it completely. None of the alpha/beta testers thought that the Azerite Gear would work. And it didn't.

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Acquisition method aside, Legiondaries were about as good as it gets for that kind of mechanic - it's a single item so slots don't get locked in (the downside of tier sets) but you get a powerful and often playstyle-altering effect (the upside of tier sets). Also the mix-and-match based on encounters was easy and straightforward and actually INCREASED loot variety because it created virtual slots (need more items to swap in) rather than effectively removing slots (since 4 slots are reserved for tier pieces).

Corruption is one step forward, two steps back. It was well-intentioned but horribly executed.

Tier sets would be two steps back, zero steps forward.

Legendaries, Azerite gear and Corruption all had the same main problem. The acquisition method. But Blizzard didn't listen to us when we gave feedback on the Legendaris after Legion. If they had they would never have implemented Azerite gear or Corruption the way they did.

[Nnyco]

No number were pulled out. Everyone knows that a system like the Azerite gear takes a lot of time to develop.

Okay so we are pulling numbers out of our arse now, understood! Everyone knows that.