(Spoiler) Kil’jaeden and the Shadowlands

[TigTone]

Want to hurt your head even more? While we know the Legion is the same across all timelines (which is totally not how separate timelines work) is the same true for the Shadowlands? Or we could just ask Chromie to get us like five more Helms of Dominations?

They should have just said the demons exist outside of the timelines in there own plane of existence and the same should apply with shadowlands.

[Newname1234567890]

I think that Dreadlords are the ones from Revendreth that was changed a litle bit by fel.

Probably but i really dont want that to be the case. Dreadlord have like an established home world and are among my favourite demonic races. While there should be links i dont want them to be a lost colony sort of deal

[Soon-TM]

On just a practical level, it would make sense the Jailer–who wants to eat souls for power–would back the Legion, an organization that wants to kill everyone.

The problem with that is... why would Sylvanas ever oppose the dreadlords, and the whole Legion by proxy, if she was also in the Jailor's payroll in order to maximise the death toll. Shouldn't we have seen her siding with the Legion, in that case?

[TigTone]

On just a practical level, it would make sense the Jailer–who wants to eat souls for power–would back the Legion, an organization that wants to kill everyone.

Keep an eye on the Nathrezim here, they will probably be revealed to be far more important than just Legion grunts.

"The cunning ones kneel before 6 masters, but serve only one."

That's the Nathrezim. They serve all 6 cosmic forces, but truly only serve Death.

I like to argue they still serve the Void seeing how that’s Sargeras found them on a Void infested world.

[Newname1234567890]

Demons don't pass through the Shadowlands when they die. They go straight to the Twisting Nether.

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Oh ok. So I have to like the incredibly dumb writing Blizzard has been doing just because you told me to?

Yeah but i think op was talking about what happens when they die in the twisting nether, effectively permanently dying.

[Varodoc]

The breaking of the machine of death is what allowed the Jailer to set in motion his plans by siphoning all dead souls to the Maw. The machine broke around the start of Legion. It's possible that Sargeras/Kil'jaeden had formed an alliance with the Jailer, maybe keeping Sylvanas obscure to this (since she was their enemy).

I really don't think the machine of death breaking around the time of Legion was a coincidence. Maybe the Felstorm ripped open above the Tomb by Gul'dan somehow pierced the veil and hurt the machine. The sky was basically broken, akin to what Sylvanas did in Icecrown.

[Susanoo]

normally i'm with the people asking those questiosns but... it's Kil'Jaeden, he's the mastermind behind the destructions of countless of worlds, for a being already capable of extraplanar travel it's hardly surprising that he can go on a place apparently we can, right?

I agree with you. They could simply say Kil'jaeden reached into the shadowlands and got the items. I'm sure whatever explanation they give will make sense.

[Newname1234567890]

The problem with that is... why would Sylvanas ever oppose the dreadlords, and the whole Legion by proxy, if she was also in the Jailor's payroll in order to maximise the death toll. Shouldn't we have seen her siding with the Legion, in that case?

Well the Legion do recuit and demonize (demonification?) mortal races. This means that they no longer enter the Shadowlands depriving the maw of souls?

Not a great reason i admit.

Also if the jailer needs Azeroths world souls rhen that also a reason to oppose the Legion.

[DemonHunter18]

I'm sure whatever explanation they give will make sense.

2020 and people still think that xd

[Soon-TM]

Well the Legion do recuit and demonize (demonification?) mortal races. This means that they no longer enter the Shadowlands depriving the maw of souls?

Not a great reason i admit.

Also if the jailer needs Azeroths world souls rhen that also a reason to oppose the Legion.

Well... our friend Sylvie has been remarkably uninterested about Azeroth's world soul, so far. But I guess it can be retconned as well

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2020 and people still think that xd

I wish I could be naive enough to think that Blizzard stories might make sense in 2020

[Newname1234567890]

Well... our friend Sylvie has been remarkably uninterested about Azeroth's world soul, so far. But I guess it can be retconned as well

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I wish I could be naive enough to think that Blizzard stories might make sense in 2020

Hey im just trying to think of reasons.

Also the world souls only started bleeding after the Legion at which point she started gathering up blood. If she reckoned timescale wise she could launch the jailer plan before Azeroth died then it makes sense not to prioritise healing it.

[Aucald]

Well yes, but the way nerv234 lay his idea out, dreadlords wouldn't have been demons by the time they left the Shadowlands.

If that is the case, which remains to be seen. Right now I think it best to assume that what we know of the Nathrezim remains true - they are natural demons, born in the Nether, and immortal unless killed in the manner prescribed for demons (e.g. death in the Nether or via a few known alternatives). If they were originally natives of the Shadowlands then the axiom still stands true - Shadowlands beings aren't mortal either, they're spirit beings. So even if the Nathrezim originally rose from the Shadowlands they'd be something other than mortal, and then they became demons who are otherwise immortal.

[ro9ue]

The problem with that is... why would Sylvanas ever oppose the dreadlords, and the whole Legion by proxy, if she was also in the Jailor's payroll in order to maximise the death toll. Shouldn't we have seen her siding with the Legion, in that case?

She had Varimithras at her side for many years. IMO she and Varimithras were both on the same page - serving death. Sargeras probably found out Vari was being duplicitous which is why he was being punished in Antorus, and during the Battle of UC he took the fall and Sylvanas could just scapegoat him.

[Soon-TM]

She had Varimithras at her side for many years. IMO she and Varimithras were both on the same page - serving death. Sargeras probably found out Vari was being duplicitous which is why he was being punished in Antorus, and during the Battle of UC he took the fall and Sylvanas could just scapegoat him.

Ok, but... Varimathras was supposed to be a renegade dreadlord, especially after he killed one of his brethren, and helped to kill another - which was forbidden (as stated in WC3).

[omeomorfismo]

he cant simply sent a group of demonic "adventures" like we did countless time?

[Varodoc]

Hey im just trying to think of reasons.

Also the world souls only started bleeding after the Legion at which point she started gathering up blood. If she reckoned timescale wise she could launch the jailer plan before Azeroth died then it makes sense not to prioritise healing it.

Didn't Azeroth start bleeding after Gallywix and his mooks dug too deep and hurt her, unleashing azerite for the first time?

[Steelangel]

Because the quote I posted came from appeal to authority and not from ad hominem. Blame Wikipedia editors, if you want, not me - I was just quoting. Reading isn't your strong suit now, is it? No wonder you keep getting F's. Dismissed

Yawn, whatev, dude. I didn't link the Wiki page "https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority" and name the link "ad hominem".

[formerShandalay]

Ok, but... Varimathras was supposed to be a renegade dreadlord, especially after he killed one of his brethren, and helped to kill another - which was forbidden (as stated in WC3).

Which was probably a lie by Varimathras to make Sylvanas feel secure with her hold over him. I do think he knew they wouldn't die from being killed.

[Newname1234567890]

Didn't Azeroth start bleeding after Gallywix and his mooks dug too deep and hurt her, unleashing azerite for the first time?

Was it? I'll be honest i didnt read Before the Storm. I just connected large stab wound with bleeding.

Fuck the Horde really are the bad guys of bfa......

[Varodoc]

Was it? I'll be honest i didnt read Before the Storm. I just connected large stab wound with bleeding.

Fuck the Horde really are the bad guys of bfa......

Yeah. Iirc Gallywix already made Azeroth bleed as far back as Cataclysm.