Going further than tbc would be pointless wouldn't it?

[Dadwen]

Personally them coming out with a classic LK server would be the only thing that would make me want to re-sub (short of giving me my RSV Hunter back and a option to disable scaling live\retail sucks), *MOP would be ok too, (liked most of the class design so much I had 2 or 3 of every class at 90). I liked BC, but LK is when I really started to like the class designs and other game-play systems.

[Twoddle]

Classic gave me a taste of what WoW was like so I won't be coming back to do it all over again. Besides, the whole guild thing and virtual lockouts to keep you subscribed turning the game into a job is just too draining for me.

[Arakakao]

Waiting for Pandaria servers.

[Mosha]

Classic gave me a taste of what WoW was like so I won't be coming back to do it all over again. Besides, the whole guild thing and virtual lockouts to keep you subscribed turning the game into a job is just too draining for me.

Just out of curiosity, what do you do in retail if you still play? Just curious because what you are describing still holds true in retail as well.

[Twoddle]

Just out of curiosity, what do you do in retail if you still play? Just curious because what you are describing still holds true in retail as well.

Gave up wow a decade ago and came back to Classic for a couple of months only to be reminded as time went on of the guild obligations if you wanna keep up. I wouldn't touch retail with a barge pole.

[Mosha]

Gave up wow a decade ago and came back to Classic for a couple of months only to be reminded as time went on of the guild obligations if you wanna keep up. I wouldn't touch retail with a barge pole.

Yeah... I mean that's how it's gunna be I guess =S at least in tbc and you like pvp that isn't so much the case. You can just get your honor gear and do you 10 games a week and get really decent pvp gear

[Utrrabbit]

Tbc was a crappy expansion that brought lots of crappy stuff to the table. Horrible looking sets, ugly flying mounts and pointless rep farms, sickly races, crap arena and some of the worst raids ever. Wotlk was better than tbc. Wotlk was also great and for some it was their first expansion that's why they value it so highly, it was also during wotlk that the esport wow scene thrived and we saw some of the best matches ever but no matter how good it was nothing new. If they release wotlk then they might as well release everything else. It would make more sense to skip tbc and go straight to wotlk.

I understand why they would release wotlk again, it was much different than classic with a completely new playstyle, but anything else more than this and I will be like WTF, it will be the first company releasing all their games for a second time. It will be total madness imo living the same cycle again.

Fixed some of it for you.

[meathead]

I don't think you've played either expansion very much...

The raids were completely different, in Every way you can imagine, From the Size of the raid group, to the type of mechanics, to the very basics of how classes played and functioned. nothing was the same, with the addition of Hardmodes, and later Heroic Modes, and both 10 and 25 man versions of each raid, instead of a static raid size depending on the raid (like in Vanilla and TBC)

They had NOTHING in common and was the reason there was a minority that was very vocal about their hatred for Wotlk, because they preferred how raiding worked in Vanilla/TBC, mostly TBC. as well as the first tier being a Joke, you had some Hardcore raiders being very disappointed.

Wotlk fleshed out the class designs massively, which had a big impact all around, but the biggest impact of all, was in PVP, where Wow Arena was even removed from the MLG lineup, so i would hardly say the E-sport scene "thrived", more like "shriveled" even tho wow arena was more popular than ever amongst the players, this was NOT reflected on the E-sport scene, and theres some fair arguments to as of why, personally me and all the guys I play with in PvP think back to TBC when we think of historical matches, Orangemarmalades 1v3 will never be forgotten.

so considering you obviously didn't play either of the expansions very much, what made you post this? where does this conviction come from?

Agree and it was wrath we're wow started to go downhill. Single most op'ed aspect in wow history was wrath dks!that's why all the fun boys love wrath. Pally were also broken as was pve gear and wow arena got dropped from all the pvp contests like you said. 2v2 was scrapped do to dks and pallys for the most part. 5v5was crap and 3v3was only soild in the mid to late wrath. Broken human racial broken pve gear broken world pvp. Raiding went to easy mode and you had to pve to pvp. Most fans of wrath point to sub numbers and say look wrath is the best... Lol. But the fact is that wrath only brought in like 500k subs. Shoot even call it one million an it was still bad game growth. Classic and Tbc is were the game was good and grew by millions over and over again. Cata had more subs then classic and Tbc but that does not mean it was better. Pve went easy mode and bizz said they wanted more people to raid so they made raids in wrath easy to get into. Dungeons... Lol so many bad dks taking spots from better players because dks were just that broken and could tank anything! Sad thing is most here probably think warriors were op'ed in wrath... But fail to understand warriors were the worst class on wrath for lie half the X-Pac and blizz had to do massive buffs and class change s just to make warriors playable. That's something thy don't so during a X-Pac unless is a must. Said thing was warriors still needed broken op'ed pve gear to pvp with. And needed op'ed pallys pocket healing them so they could be played. All the while dks and pallys were better in ever aspect of the game in pvp an pve combined.

[Mosha]

Agree and it was wrath we're wow started to go downhill. Single most op'ed aspect in wow history was wrath dks!that's why all the fun boys love wrath. Pally were also broken as was pve gear and wow arena got dropped from all the pvp contests like you said. 2v2 was scrapped do to dks and pallys for the most part. 5v5was crap and 3v3was only soild in the mid to late wrath. Broken human racial broken pve gear broken world pvp. Raiding went to easy mode and you had to pve to pvp. Most fans of wrath point to sub numbers and say look wrath is the best... Lol. But the fact is that wrath only brought in like 500k subs. Shoot even call it one million an it was still bad game growth. Classic and Tbc is were the game was good and grew by millions over and over again. Cata had more subs then classic and Tbc but that does not mean it was better.

You have some nice points, but I'm going to have to disagree with some of them here...

Single most op'ed aspect in wow history was wrath dks!that's why all the fun boys love wrath.

I wouldn't really point to this as to why it was so popular tbh... at the start of wrath I was an arena player and I was a resto druid....and if you remember anything about what happened to resto druids at the start of wrath well....we were absolutely fucked. I still loved wotlk even with this in mind, and honestly the opness didn't make me want to play a dk it made me want to beat them, so I went holy paladin and I still had a blast.

Pally were also broken as was pve gear and wow arena got dropped from all the pvp contests like you said.

Pve gear was strong, REALLY REALLY strong near the end with shadowmourne and DBW etc... but honestly overall through the whole expansion, the pve really wasn't THAT big of a issue. What I mean by this is that if you had tier 2 weapons you did just fine in arena, and tier one weapons weren't even THAT bad. Yes, there were some pve items that were objectively better, but it didn't really make or break the game (excluding shadowmourne here because that weapon for SURE did break it).

Also, wrath wasn't the reason MLG dropped wow arenas, it was the release of cata. Honestly, it didn't have TOO much to do with what they did to pvp (even though post cata they fucked it all up), MLG just dropped it because they realized a game where when an expansion hits, it requires you to level up to end level, grind for a massive amount of time for gear, and do XYZ before you are even ready for arena, didn't make for a good competitive scene.

WOTLK arenas were where the competitive scene was at its peak. Every popular highlight you can probably think of came from wotlk. So idk if you were trying to blame the removal from MLG on wotlk or not but if you were that's not even remotely close.

2v2 was scrapped do to dks and pallys for the most part.

Eh..no...not really. It was way less scrapped than tbc that's for sure with every resto druid running around and basically only seeing a couple comps once you hit a certain point.

Disc/feral was super fucking strong. Lock/pally was super fucking strong. Warrior was super fucking strong. Mage rogue and mage shadow priest was super fucking strong. Honestly, I remember playing around 2500 rating on 2v2 in wotlk and seeing a dk team was pretty relaxed compared to some comps tbh. At least for me, I played holy paladin destro (sometimes aff) lock and the only teams that I fucking dreaded was feral disc teams and warrior teams. Warriors would just sit on the locks pet and fucking DESTROY them with massive crits and I would just be sitting there ooming myself trying to keep the fucking thing alive long enough for my lock to do something.

Dks teams weren't bad at all compared to that.

5v5was crap and 3v3was only soild in the mid to late wrath.

5v5 was honestly a blast in wotlk post fan of knives bullshit and pre shadowmourne triple healer. But that's all subjective I suppose. 3v3 was great pretty much throughout the whole expac tbh. Yeah there were some op comps from heal but honestly it wasn't just one comp running things. African turtle was nasty, beast cleave was nasty, shadow play was nasty, obviously TSG was everywhere, RMP was great, WLS was great, RLS was great....

Broken human racial broken pve gear broken world pvp.

Human racial isn't as bad a undead racial was in TBC imo. Yeah you get an extra trinket, but it wasn't that crazy... There were still a fuck ton of horde making titles so idk man.

Shadowmourne was broken I will admit that but outside of that one item pve gear wasn't that big of an issue. There were numerous occasions where I had literally 0 pieces of pve gear on and I still could make glad range ratings.

World pvp pretty much turned into wintergrasp only which....to each their own, if you hated it then whatever but I loved it personally. Dueling in the sewers was a fucking blast as well.

Raiding went to easy mode and you had to pve to pvp.

Raiding did sort of go to easy mode I will admit that (outside of challenge modes etc) but you did NOT has to pve to pvp, this is 100% incorrect.

Most fans of wrath point to sub numbers and say look wrath is the best... Lol. But the fact is that wrath only brought in like 500k subs. Shoot even call it one million an it was still bad game growth.

No....lol this is just silly. It was not bad game growth. A genre of games always hits a capacity at some point, to where there just isn't enough people interested in the game. WOTLK broke records and held the HIGHEST number of subs on an mmo ever, and growth isn't the most important thing to think about, it's retaining those subs. Let's just say 12 mil or so people were going to be the most amount of people to ever be interested in wow, if cata came along and kept that 12 mil sub count, it would also be seen as an amazing expansion, even if it didn't grow at all, because it kept those people interested in the game well enough.

There comes a point where growth just isn't really feasible anymore, because let's be honest, there just isn't a massive percentage of gamers who are super interested in mmos...

Classic and Tbc is were the game was good and grew by millions over and over again. Cata had more subs then classic and Tbc but that does not mean it was better.

The cata thing I will agree with, but you should never JUST look at growth when looking at a successful video game, especially a game like world of warcraft. Before WoW even launched, they had a massive fan base. Tons of people from warcraft 3, starcraft, diablo, etc etc etc. So of COURSE the 'growth' from no game to some game is probably going to be the largest climb. But I will agree that I personally believe tbc was the best version of the game and it really did an amazing job at bringing in new people as well as hyping up the 'veteran' players into playing this game long term. If tbc wasn't as great as it was, then I for sure think wotlk would have suffered quite a bit. Obviously.

I think you have some valid criticisms, I just don't agree with some and some are just sort of...well..wrong.... at least the pvp ones

[meathead]

You have some nice points, but I'm going to have to disagree with some of them here...



I wouldn't really point to this as to why it was so popular tbh... at the start of wrath I was an arena player and I was a resto druid....and if you remember anything about what happened to resto druids at the start of wrath well....we were absolutely fucked. I still loved wotlk even with this in mind, and honestly the opness didn't make me want to play a dk it made me want to beat them, so I went holy paladin and I still had a blast.



Pve gear was strong, REALLY REALLY strong near the end with shadowmourne and DBW etc... but honestly overall through the whole expansion, the pve really wasn't THAT big of a issue. What I mean by this is that if you had tier 2 weapons you did just fine in arena, and tier one weapons weren't even THAT bad. Yes, there were some pve items that were objectively better, but it didn't really make or break the game (excluding shadowmourne here because that weapon for SURE did break it).

Also, wrath wasn't the reason MLG dropped wow arenas, it was the release of cata. Honestly, it didn't have TOO much to do with what they did to pvp (even though post cata they fucked it all up), MLG just dropped it because they realized a game where when an expansion hits, it requires you to level up to end level, grind for a massive amount of time for gear, and do XYZ before you are even ready for arena, didn't make for a good competitive scene.

WOTLK arenas were where the competitive scene was at its peak. Every popular highlight you can probably think of came from wotlk. So idk if you were trying to blame the removal from MLG on wotlk or not but if you were that's not even remotely close.



Eh..no...not really. It was way less scrapped than tbc that's for sure with every resto druid running around and basically only seeing a couple comps once you hit a certain point.

Disc/feral was super fucking strong. Lock/pally was super fucking strong. Warrior was super fucking strong. Mage rogue and mage shadow priest was super fucking strong. Honestly, I remember playing around 2500 rating on 2v2 in wotlk and seeing a dk team was pretty relaxed compared to some comps tbh. At least for me, I played holy paladin destro (sometimes aff) lock and the only teams that I fucking dreaded was feral disc teams and warrior teams. Warriors would just sit on the locks pet and fucking DESTROY them with massive crits and I would just be sitting there ooming myself trying to keep the fucking thing alive long enough for my lock to do something.

Dks teams weren't bad at all compared to that.



5v5 was honestly a blast in wotlk post fan of knives bullshit and pre shadowmourne triple healer. But that's all subjective I suppose. 3v3 was great pretty much throughout the whole expac tbh. Yeah there were some op comps from heal but honestly it wasn't just one comp running things. African turtle was nasty, beast cleave was nasty, shadow play was nasty, obviously TSG was everywhere, RMP was great, WLS was great, RLS was great....



Human racial isn't as bad a undead racial was in TBC imo. Yeah you get an extra trinket, but it wasn't that crazy... There were still a fuck ton of horde making titles so idk man.

Shadowmourne was broken I will admit that but outside of that one item pve gear wasn't that big of an issue. There were numerous occasions where I had literally 0 pieces of pve gear on and I still could make glad range ratings.

World pvp pretty much turned into wintergrasp only which....to each their own, if you hated it then whatever but I loved it personally. Dueling in the sewers was a fucking blast as well.



Raiding did sort of go to easy mode I will admit that (outside of challenge modes etc) but you did NOT has to pve to pvp, this is 100% incorrect.



No....lol this is just silly. It was not bad game growth. A genre of games always hits a capacity at some point, to where there just isn't enough people interested in the game. WOTLK broke records and held the HIGHEST number of subs on an mmo ever, and growth isn't the most important thing to think about, it's retaining those subs. Let's just say 12 mil or so people were going to be the most amount of people to ever be interested in wow, if cata came along and kept that 12 mil sub count, it would also be seen as an amazing expansion, even if it didn't grow at all, because it kept those people interested in the game well enough.

There comes a point where growth just isn't really feasible anymore, because let's be honest, there just isn't a massive percentage of gamers who are super interested in mmos...



The cata thing I will agree with, but you should never JUST look at growth when looking at a successful video game, especially a game like world of warcraft. Before WoW even launched, they had a massive fan base. Tons of people from warcraft 3, starcraft, diablo, etc etc etc. So of COURSE the 'growth' from no game to some game is probably going to be the largest climb. But I will agree that I personally believe tbc was the best version of the game and it really did an amazing job at bringing in new people as well as hyping up the 'veteran' players into playing this game long term. If tbc wasn't as great as it was, then I for sure think wotlk would have suffered quite a bit. Obviously.

I think you have some valid criticisms, I just don't agree with some and some are just sort of...well..wrong.... at least the pvp ones

Ty for the reply but I can tell you most your post is wrong. Not goin to comment on it all but a few things.... Yes 2v2 was scrapped in wrath because of dks and pallys for the most part. Bilzz said themselves they can't balance 2' anymore. And yes 2s I'm Tbc were miles better then wrath and it's not close. 2s in Tbc were not perfect but it was better then any other time in wow history. Yes wow for dropped fe MLG or whatever it is called during g wrath and blizz told us to play 3s..... 5s were broken as was world pvp with one man armys in dks and pallys facerolling. Speaking of pallys s you rerolled from druid to pally on wrath?why if balance was fine? pallys were the 2nd moa op'ed class on wrath behind dks... Your action proves what I say is true. Again wrath ONLY had like 500k more subs then Tbc and Tbc brought in way more news players!wrath lived off the Tbc rep. Cata had same subs as wrath.... What that tell you?Nd yes pve went easy mode inwrath and they even have a buff on to all on icc to make more people progress lol. Ruby S raid... Yeah or Kara Bt and sunwell... Not hard to see the better raids are in Tbc. Human racial was best for everyone in wrath by far where undead racial was best for casters only in Tbc, Human racial had way more impact. And it was not just SM wrath had all sorts of trinkets and rings that were way better then pvp items. Sorry about the grammar this cell phone sucks compared to my PC lol. And like I said warriors were only good about half way through the X-Pac after massive buffs in pvp and pve and warriors still.needed.oped pallys an pve gear to be carried by. Again what s that telling you?

[Mosha]

Ty for the reply but I can tell you most your post is wrong. Not goin to comment on it all but a few things.... Yes 2v2 was scrapped in wrath because of dks and pallys for the most part. Bilzz said themselves they can't balance 2' anymore. And yes 2s I'm Tbc were miles better then wrath and it's not close. 2s in Tbc were not perfect but it was better then any other time in wow history. Yes wow for dropped fe MLG or whatever it is called during g wrath and blizz told us to play 3s..... 5s were broken as was world pvp with one man armys in dks and pallys facerolling. Speaking of pallys s you rerolled from druid to pally on wrath?why if balance was fine? pallys were the 2nd moa op'ed class on wrath behind dks... Your action proves what I say is true. Again wrath ONLY had like 500k more subs then Tbc and Tbc brought in way more news players!wrath lived off the Tbc rep. Cata had same subs as wrath.... What that tell you?Nd yes pve went easy mode inwrath and they even have a buff on to all on icc to make more people progress lol. Ruby S raid... Yeah or Kara Bt and sunwell... Not hard to see the better raids are in Tbc.

Never once said balance was fine, I said dks were busted at the start of wrath which is why I rerolled from resto druid. I didn't just pick pally because they were deemed op, back when I was playing it no one really knew what was OP yet besides DK. I just went for anything besides resto druid because their dots removed hots and didn't give you lifebloom ticks so you literally couldnt win vs a dk at all if they just sat on you.

And I just have to point this out just in case someone else is reading this, as when someone posts misinformation it is REALLY frustrating.

MLG did not drop wow because of wrath, full stop. They dropped it literally right when cata was coming out because they did not like how the game was formatted for a competitive game. The patches that changed the meta so frequently was REALLY hard to keep up with in a game like wow where you couldn't just make a new class all willy nilly. Also the whole issue with a new expansion coming out and literally changing everything really made them just hate it more. Also, the spectator UI was a big issue here, I'm going to send you some links proving this because I HATE it when people just say shit as if they know and are completely wrong.

Link proving there was an MLG tournament RIGHT before cata hits and they choose to stay on the 3.3.5 patch instead of the prepatch of cata because of the issues it caused.

Here is a link showing when they dropped them (they decided to stop supporting wow in 2011 which is cata). They were sick of the balance issues and cata was the final nail in the coffin.

So no, it didn't end IN wotlk. It ended IN cata because they thought the game mode wasn't fit for competitive play. This has nothing to do with wotlk specifically, this is just them not liking the game in a competitive scene at the time.

Also, dude... you must have been super fucking bad in wotlk...I'm sorry... but dks were not an issue in 2v2 lol. After they were nerfed early on they were no longer an issue. Like...at all.

Here I'll even post you a screengrab of a time period when they were broken and later in wotlk when they were nerfed..

When they were considered OP as hell

35 out of 99 teams were DK

End of wotlk

6 teams out of 99 were dks teams

They were good, but they were not what you are describing them to be. Almost everything you are saying is objectively incorrect and this is proof of it.

And yes 2s I'm Tbc were miles better then wrath and it's not close. 2s in Tbc were not perfect but it was better then any other time in wow history.

In what? Balance? Fun? I'll admit tbc is my favorite expansion and I loved arena then. But don't joke yourself dude... it was extremely imbalanced. Resto druid basically ruled all. Period. Resto druid rogue when played correctly was king. Some comps could compete a little with disc rogue or shadow rogue etc. But it was not anywhere even near as balanced as wotlk, full stop. Even though I think TBC was WAY more fun in 2v2, it is in no way shape or form as balanced.

5s were broken as was world pvp with one man armys in dks and pallys facerolling.

How were 5s broken? Can you even tell me what comps were broken or are you just saying to say this? I know there were really good comps but it wasn't broken by any means. And wtf are you on about with the world pvp LOL. World pvp was basically just WG, and your class had almost nothing to play into it as it was just a seiging fuck fest.

You are just giving off really hard challenger vibes right now.

Again wrath ONLY had like 500k more subs then Tbc and Tbc brought in way more news players!wrath lived off the Tbc rep.

I already explained this...

Cata had same subs as wrath

Factually incorrect

d yes pve went easy mode inwrath and they even have a buff on to all on icc to make more people progress lol. Ruby S raid... Yeah or Kara Bt and sunwell... Not hard to see the better raids are in Tbc.

Never argued that they didn't make it easy mode so idk why you brought this up again.

[Will]

But the fact is that wrath only brought in like 500k subs. Shoot even call it one million an it was still bad game growth. Classic and Tbc is were the game was good and grew by millions over and over again.

I think you need to study up on an aspect of economics known as "market saturation"

In a nutshell, it's not as simple as pointing at growth from any given expansion as some kind of measure of success. The idea is simple, there's only so much market potential available. If the game has already attracted the majority of its target market by wrath, then the potential for further growth is greatly lessened. Combine this with compelling competitors products entering the market in greater quantity, and, well... That market starts tapping out.

[Mosha]

I think you need to study up on an aspect of economics known as "market saturation"

In a nutshell, it's not as simple as pointing at growth from any given expansion as some kind of measure of success. The idea is simple, there's only so much market potential available. If the game has already attracted the majority of its target market by wrath, then the potential for further growth is greatly lessened. Combine this with compelling competitors products entering the market in greater quantity, and, well... That market starts tapping out.

I already explained this to him and he keeps bringing it up. I don't think he is a person to listen to reason.

[Deferionus]

I don't think you've played either expansion very much...

The raids were completely different, in Every way you can imagine, From the Size of the raid group, to the type of mechanics, to the very basics of how classes played and functioned. nothing was the same, with the addition of Hardmodes, and later Heroic Modes, and both 10 and 25 man versions of each raid, instead of a static raid size depending on the raid (like in Vanilla and TBC)

They had NOTHING in common and was the reason there was a minority that was very vocal about their hatred for Wotlk, because they preferred how raiding worked in Vanilla/TBC, mostly TBC. as well as the first tier being a Joke, you had some Hardcore raiders being very disappointed.

Wotlk fleshed out the class designs massively, which had a big impact all around, but the biggest impact of all, was in PVP, where Wow Arena was even removed from the MLG lineup, so i would hardly say the E-sport scene "thrived", more like "shriveled" even tho wow arena was more popular than ever amongst the players, this was NOT reflected on the E-sport scene, and theres some fair arguments to as of why, personally me and all the guys I play with in PvP think back to TBC when we think of historical matches, Orangemarmalades 1v3 will never be forgotten.

so considering you obviously didn't play either of the expansions very much, what made you post this? where does this conviction come from?

Agreed. My PvP friends and I seem to have come to the conclusion that BC was great for arenas and WOTLK was worse. Cataclysm was great for arenas too. The problem with PvP in WOTLK is it was the worst balancing they ever did for PvP. Death knights were insanely broken on release. Ret paladins killed anyone without a trinket in a HOJ and could heal themselves through people's damage. Warlock UA silenced for 5 seconds and would take off 80% of your life when dispelled (bring this back to live IMO.) Basically, the damage was too great relative to the health bars. Cataclysm fixed this immensely on its release.

And WOTLK was terrible for 5 man dungeons compared to BC. What WOTLK did right was Ulduar and ICC. It also had a badass end boss and strong environments.

Not gonna lie, I would play it just for the PvE but BC was better in its overall design and in taking the game forward.

[WinningOne]

Tbc was a great expansion that brought lots of new stuff to the table. Insane looking sets, great flying mounts and rep farms, sick races, arena and some of the best raids ever. Wotlk was more or less a continuation of this that didn't add anything new at all. Wotlk was also great and for some it was their first expansion that's why they value it so highly, it was also during wotlk that the esport wow scene thrived and we saw some of the best matches ever but no matter how good it was nothing new. If they release wotlk then they might as well release everything else. It would make more sense to release legion again instead of wotlk because legion was exactly like tbc, it added new stuff and changed a lot the world.

I understand why they would release tbc again, it was much different than classic with a completely new playstyle which was also fun but anything else more than this and I will be like WTF, it will be the first company releasing all their games for a second time. It will be total madness imo living the same cycle again.

At least one classic MMO re-releases all of it's content as a normal part of it's offerings called "Progression Servers". It includes things like letting players on a given server vote on whether the next expansion should be released and variable rates of xp gain.

https://www.everquest.com/news/eq-wh...ression-server

[meathead]

Never once said balance was fine, I said dks were busted at the start of wrath which is why I rerolled from resto druid. I didn't just pick pally because they were deemed op, back when I was playing it no one really knew what was OP yet besides DK. I just went for anything besides resto druid because their dots removed hots and didn't give you lifebloom ticks so you literally couldnt win vs a dk at all if they just sat on you.

And I just have to point this out just in case someone else is reading this, as when someone posts misinformation it is REALLY frustrating.

MLG did not drop wow because of wrath, full stop. They dropped it literally right when cata was coming out because they did not like how the game was formatted for a competitive game. The patches that changed the meta so frequently was REALLY hard to keep up with in a game like wow where you couldn't just make a new class all willy nilly. Also the whole issue with a new expansion coming out and literally changing everything really made them just hate it more. Also, the spectator UI was a big issue here, I'm going to send you some links proving this because I HATE it when people just say shit as if they know and are completely wrong.

Link proving there was an MLG tournament RIGHT before cata hits and they choose to stay on the 3.3.5 patch instead of the prepatch of cata because of the issues it caused.

Here is a link showing when they dropped them (they decided to stop supporting wow in 2011 which is cata). They were sick of the balance issues and cata was the final nail in the coffin.

So no, it didn't end IN wotlk. It ended IN cata because they thought the game mode wasn't fit for competitive play. This has nothing to do with wotlk specifically, this is just them not liking the game in a competitive scene at the time.

Also, dude... you must have been super fucking bad in wotlk...I'm sorry... but dks were not an issue in 2v2 lol. After they were nerfed early on they were no longer an issue. Like...at all.

Here I'll even post you a screengrab of a time period when they were broken and later in wotlk when they were nerfed..

When they were considered OP as hell

35 out of 99 teams were DK

End of wotlk

6 teams out of 99 were dks teams

They were good, but they were not what you are describing them to be. Almost everything you are saying is objectively incorrect and this is proof of it.



In what? Balance? Fun? I'll admit tbc is my favorite expansion and I loved arena then. But don't joke yourself dude... it was extremely imbalanced. Resto druid basically ruled all. Period. Resto druid rogue when played correctly was king. Some comps could compete a little with disc rogue or shadow rogue etc. But it was not anywhere even near as balanced as wotlk, full stop. Even though I think TBC was WAY more fun in 2v2, it is in no way shape or form as balanced.



How were 5s broken? Can you even tell me what comps were broken or are you just saying to say this? I know there were really good comps but it wasn't broken by any means. And wtf are you on about with the world pvp LOL. World pvp was basically just WG, and your class had almost nothing to play into it as it was just a seiging fuck fest.

You are just giving off really hard challenger vibes right now.



I already explained this...



Factually incorrect



Never argued that they didn't make it easy mode so idk why you brought this up again.

Just stop it's is sad but funny anyone who played can see your lies. S5 was five pluse months long that is almost half a Year with broken op'ed classes like dks running free lol. They were still op'ed even after some.nerfs so just stop. Yes wow got kicked from MLG beazue of wrath during wrath not beazue of cata. Years of crap balance in wrath got wow the boot. Much like we all knew pallys were.brokwn op'ed in wraths pre patch in Tbc lol,so again stop spinning. And stop with the 2v2 crap blizz dropped them in wrath and they said so themselves and told all of us to play 3v3... Lol facts are facts ������

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I think you need to study up on an aspect of economics known as "market saturation"

In a nutshell, it's not as simple as pointing at growth from any given expansion as some kind of measure of success. The idea is simple, there's only so much market potential available. If the game has already attracted the majority of its target market by wrath, then the potential for further growth is greatly lessened. Combine this with compelling competitors products entering the market in greater quantity, and, well... That market starts tapping out.

So your saying the player base was already built-up in classic and Tbc correct?then whydo people talk sub numbers and say wrath had the most so it's the best?werid right? Ty for proving my point!game was great before wrath started it's downfall. Even raids in Tbc were better overall.

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Agreed. My PvP friends and I seem to have come to the conclusion that BC was great for arenas and WOTLK was worse. Cataclysm was great for arenas too. The problem with PvP in WOTLK is it was the worst balancing they ever did for PvP. Death knights were insanely broken on release. Ret paladins killed anyone without a trinket in a HOJ and could heal themselves through people's damage. Warlock UA silenced for 5 seconds and would take off 80% of your life when dispelled (bring this back to live IMO.) Basically, the damage was too great relative to the health bars. Cataclysm fixed this immensely on its release.

And WOTLK was terrible for 5 man dungeons compared to BC. What WOTLK did right was Ulduar and ICC. It also had a badass end boss and strong environments.

Not gonna lie, I would play it just for the PvE but BC was better in its overall design and in taking the game forward.

You are correct! remember 5dks all popping army of the dead In 5s lol!and yes balance got better in cata then it was in wrath and that's the sad thing.

[Mosha]

Just stop it's is sad but funny anyone who played can see your lies. S5 was five pluse months long that is almost half a Year with broken op'ed classes like dks running free lol.

I don't recall ever stating that prenerf dks weren't op and strong?

They were still op'ed even after some.nerfs so just stop.

My data says otherwise... Also my memory and videos from back then when DK teams were easy as fuck to delete. What was your rating back then? Just curious. 1500? 1550? Go ahead and look up any data from back then once they were nerfed and tell me what you find. I literally just gave you proof with some data that they were not near as prevalent in 2v2 like you are stating they were.

Yes wow got kicked from MLG beazue of wrath during wrath not beazue of cata.

Actually just proved this wrong with hard evidence FROM mlg saying otherwise but ok.

Years of crap balance in wrath got wow the boot.

Actually just proved this wrong with hard evidence FROM mlg saying otherwise but ok.

Much like we all knew pallys were.brokwn op'ed in wraths pre patch in Tbc lol,so again stop spinning. And stop with the 2v2 crap blizz dropped them in wrath and they said so themselves and told all of us to play 3v3

Ok? Has nothing to do with DKs but sure bud.

Lol facts are facts ������

You are right, they are. Now provide literally ANYTHING that combats what I said and you may have some ground to stand on. I am giving you the facts with hard data and reports from the companies you are making these claims against, and they are ALL telling you that you are wrong.

[meathead]

I don't recall ever stating that prenerf dks weren't op and strong?



My data says otherwise... Also my memory and videos from back then when DK teams were easy as fuck to delete. What was your rating back then? Just curious. 1500? 1550? Go ahead and look up any data from back then once they were nerfed and tell me what you find. I literally just gave you proof with some data that they were not near as prevalent in 2v2 like you are stating they were.



Actually just proved this wrong with hard evidence FROM mlg saying otherwise but ok.



Actually just proved this wrong with hard evidence FROM mlg saying otherwise but ok.



Ok? Has nothing to do with DKs but sure bud.



You are right, they are. Now provide literally ANYTHING that combats what I said and you may have some ground to stand on. I am giving you the facts with hard data and reports from the companies you are making these claims against, and they are ALL telling you that you are wrong.

Look you need to stop a I know what you are doing,sad lol. You claim 2s were more balanced in 2s inwrath then Tbc because why? Dumb comment!again 2s got scrapped in wrath blizz said f it ND told the player s to play 3s. You get that?Tbc had much better balance as you keep saying dks were op'ed but just for the first season of S5 thatw as five months long.. lol. Tbc had many comps like war druid mage rogue priest mage druid hunter and then some. Class ea like pallys that were not best for twos were wanted for 5s... Balanced! Dks were op'ed all of wrath as we're pallys so stop with rating/class numbers crap. And most who played the two faceroll classes could not pvp for crap thats why they rerolled op'ed classes to began with lol like what you did.

[Mosha]

Look you need to stop a I know what you are doing,sad lol. You claim 2s were more balanced in 2s inwrath then Tbc because why? Dumb comment!again 2s got scrapped in wrath blizz said f it ND told the player s to play 3s. You get that?Tbc had much better balance as you keep saying dks were op'ed but just for the first season of S5 thatw as five months long.. lol. Tbc had many comps like war druid mage rogue priest mage druid hunter and then some. Class ea like pallys that were not best for twos were wanted for 5s... Balanced! Dks were op'ed all of wrath as we're pallys so stop with rating/class numbers crap. And most who played the two faceroll classes could not pvp for crap thats why they rerolled op'ed classes to began with lol like what you did.

It for sure was and I already proved to you it was. You can keep saying whatever you want I have the data on my side. 80% of teams in tbc were resto druid X teams. Wrath was much more diverse. Like I said, data proves me right, all you have is your word which..... let’s be honest here isn’t worth a damn thing

[LedZeppelin]

I think wotlk is the farthest. There is a clear and big different is design philosophy between wotlk and cata