horrible horrific vision concept...

[Neuroticaine]

yes, but it is stupid and shit concept anyway...

Listen, I'm not the biggest fan of visions, but this is a shit take.

The game is punishing you for playing poorly. If it's perfectly avoidable, the only thing at fault is you. It seems like you just want to stand there with your feet plastered on the ground and hit buttons as they light up.

[Bloodyleech]

I think the low ilvl thing is key to the discussion though. Most of the people who are talking about these runs with confidence have done about a million runs at high ilvl where it's completely faceroll, while those complaining aren't only less experienced but they are less geared. If you're at low ilvl, less research etc all of the mechanics involved are overlapping more and combat lasts longer, so you might have situations where you gotta run left, right, jump up and down, rub your belly and polish your boots at the same time, then a mob needs an interrupt and things start snowballing and snowballing because multiple mechanics need dealing with at once and dealing with mechanic 1 could directly prevent you from dealing with mechanic 2 and so on.

And with bosses, most of them are easy but doing Stormwind (Windrunnner boss) as Melee is incredibly annoying (non-issue as ranged), sometimes she will just not feel like LOS around the pillar between her spell casts, so she will just chain spells in her pool of death while you're attempting to LOS her and then she casts poly and you gotta run in and eat fire to interrupt or you're gonna get chains as a sheep. On the other hand sometimes she will behave herself, follow you around the pillars, allow you to get her to place fire bombs where you want, and the eyeballs will give you an easy life and you can dps without too much trouble..

And if there is an eventual solution to any/all of these situations through experience, you're never going to discover it because you will outgear it by then, and gear trivialises everything to the point of irrelevance.

I'm doing these runs on very different ilvl's though. Ofc, my main is in the upper 470s, but all my other characters are ranging from 415 to 465.
All of these except my mage and pally (both didn't do many visions, pally just for unlocking rank 1 yet) cleared at least 2 mask fullclears, but it has been progressively easier with every next character. I have to say, that I never run visions with my less-good-solo-classes without Ghastly Ghoulash tho! Without this, neither my Boomkin nor my Shadow could sustain the pulls that I do.

I actually have to say that I dislike neither endboss - I like to do Alleria more as Melee. I just use a half-top-down view for the most time and do some small sidesteps, while always staying between the eye and Alleria. My caster-classes got more problems with her, honestly, because I need to stop casting if I have to move out of the rain while my melees can smack her while moving. The only cast you have to LoS is her big aoe that she uses every 100 energy. All other casts are dodged (rain - small steps only needed / chains), interrupt (sheep) or kicked away (bombs, right click them while casting/doing your normal rotation).
I can tell you, most of my characters are not even in the slightest overgeared, still they are able to do these runs, mostly because I know exactly every mechanic/enemy and so on.

You still have to do mechanics, even as 470 player, too. If'd be just smaking everything down, it would lead to failure. My higher geared character still do every mechanic because otherwise I kill my visionkey. I tried to ignore some stuff and just smack, but it always leads to a dead key.

[Bigbazz]

You still have to do mechanics, even as 470 player, too. If'd be just smaking everything down, it would lead to failure. My higher geared character still do every mechanic because otherwise I kill my visionkey. I tried to ignore some stuff and just smack, but it always leads to a dead key.

The point I was making is that stuff dies so fast that you barely see the mechanics when compared to a lower geared character, and if you do fail them you're geared enough to eat it in the face and it will not really matter, even if you make a massive mess up and say waste your cheat death you're probably still able to recover the run.

If you were doing a 5 mask with less gear and less research you'd have to deal with more mechanics simply because stuff is alive longer.

[Bloodyleech]

The point I was making is that stuff dies so fast that you barely see the mechanics when compared to a lower geared character, and if you do fail them you're geared enough to eat it in the face and it will not really matter, even if you make a massive mess up and say waste your cheat death you're probably still able to recover the run.

If you were doing a 5 mask with less gear and less research you'd have to deal with more mechanics simply because stuff is alive longer.

Well, I got lower geared characters. If you know what can happen, you can react quickly. Dodging is the most important stuff, if you can do this, it doesnt matter if something does fast or slow.

[Utrrabbit]

...I can not even describe how concept of horrific vissions is poor, horrible and annoying. How the fck jumping, running like moron, loosing control of your char, can be fun for somebody is beyond me. That type of things have nothing with skills and good and smart gameplay. It is annoying and stupid as fck. If I want playing that kind of shit, I will turn on shity nintento and play shity mario games or whatever they called....

P.S just for information, from long time ago I have all mounts, pets, toys, mog items, title and all achivments, so it is not that I am noob, just think concept is bad and not fun at all!!!...

I think you are jusy bad.

[Protean]

this game is completely in milk-the-cow mode. stuff like vissions is done by a few lowcost ppl at blizz, to save em money, built in 10 days, so Ion Hazzicoala can tell you something about timeframes of SL and great patches until release.

I second this. The game is devoid of the innovation that made blizzard games what they are today. It's literally about preserving the cashcow for as long as possible now.

[Bigbazz]

Well, I got lower geared characters. If you know what can happen, you can react quickly. Dodging is the most important stuff, if you can do this, it doesnt matter if something does fast or slow.

Of course it matters, example is when you have the chains debuff any movement adds a stack of slow. The lower your gear the more you will have to actually move, the more you need to move the more you're effected by the chains and the more likely you're to hit a situation where a mechanic is going to catch you out.

And really it depends here if we're talking about doing visions on lower gear chars, or doing 5 mask solo visions on lower gear chars. You can definitely get caught out by bad luck, even if it's a case where with hindsight you could have gotten through it, hindsight is 2020 when you might not know you've made a poor decision until after it has played out a little more, it can go either way.

But yeah, like I said visions are mostly just a bunch of annoyances that you can overgear and then breeze through, I don't think the difficulty added is fun or engaging, so much as it's just annoying.

[Bloodyleech]

Of course it matters, example is when you have the chains debuff any movement adds a stack of slow. The lower your gear the more you will have to actually move, the more you need to move the more you're effected by the chains and the more likely you're to hit a situation where a mechanic is going to catch you out.

And really it depends here if we're talking about doing visions on lower gear chars, or doing 5 mask solo visions on lower gear chars. You can definitely get caught out by bad luck, even if it's a case where with hindsight you could have gotten through it, hindsight is 2020 when you might not know you've made a poor decision until after it has played out a little more, it can go either way.

But yeah, like I said visions are mostly just a bunch of annoyances that you can overgear and then breeze through, I don't think the difficulty added is fun or engaging, so much as it's just annoying.

You mean the stacking slow? Stutterstep. Even in Magequarter you dont need to chain-run to dodge the first elite. Always move 3yards > stand still for 1-2 sec > move. I actually dont know what chains debuff you mean, I didn't encounter anything what you describe there. I Just always do these small movements, which is enough to hold the ice-slow on low stacks. If one actually doesnt know what he should dodge, so they run more often - yeah, ofc it is going to stack up - but this is all about missing experience for it.

Well, I like visions, I don't have problems with any annoying stuff, except the stupid fire-jump - I HATE it, really. I can't stand this shit, even though I know how I counter it. It's freaking annoying that something is controlling my movement.
All fear/stun/disorienting things are fine, but not this jump. Honestly, who likes it?

[fwc577]

...I can not even describe how concept of horrific vissions is poor, horrible and annoying. How the fck jumping, running like moron, loosing control of your char, can be fun for somebody is beyond me. That type of things have nothing with skills and good and smart gameplay. It is annoying and stupid as fck. If I want playing that kind of shit, I will turn on shity nintento and play shity mario games or whatever they called....

P.S just for information, from long time ago I have all mounts, pets, toys, mog items, title and all achivments, so it is not that I am noob, just think concept is bad and not fun at all!!!...

Really? Because I learned how to properly avoid all of those mechanics or using them to my advantage so they're no longer problems. You don't think that is skill? Okay. Maybe I need to learn how to press my buttons harder into my keyboard. That must be what you mean by skill.

Fact: Movement and avoiding mechanics is the #1 skill that makes a good player in WoW.

[Rinaul]

I did 5 mask a long time ago, so nothing about difficulty, it is about stupid gameplay...my advice, before posting, try to learn read first pokemon...

- - - Updated - - -



it is about concept and gameplay, nothing more, nothing less...

Someone died to 5 masks.

[Bigbazz]

Well, I like visions, I don't have problems with any annoying stuff, except the stupid fire-jump - I HATE it, really. I can't stand this shit, even though I know how I counter it. It's freaking annoying that something is controlling my movement.
All fear/stun/disorienting things are fine, but not this jump. Honestly, who likes it?

Well I mean how you feel about the jump is how others feel about the other mechanics. The stacking slow (chains I call because it has the same icon) is extremely annoying for me because I'm never not readjusting my position, it's a habit built up from years of play that for the most part is a good habit, so having to actively play different to account for that is annoying to me, more annoying than the jump. I also like to position myself to dps, and I like pulling certain mobs/packs together and moving to a good position to dps them, the stacking slow effectively breaks that strategy and it's extremely annoying.

It also depends on class, the only non melee class I play is BM Hunter and it's hilariously easy to deal with everything on that. No need to even move to the target to interrupt, slow is a lot less of an annoyance on ranged because you don't need to move nearly as much.

[Bloodyleech]

Well I mean how you feel about the jump is how others feel about the other mechanics. The stacking slow (chains I call because it has the same icon) is extremely annoying for me because I'm never not readjusting my position, it's a habit built up from years of play that for the most part is a good habit, so having to actively play different to account for that is annoying to me, more annoying than the jump. I also like to position myself to dps, and I like pulling certain mobs/packs together and moving to a good position to dps them, the stacking slow effectively breaks that strategy and it's extremely annoying.

It also depends on class, the only non melee class I play is BM Hunter and it's hilariously easy to deal with everything on that. No need to even move to the target to interrupt, slow is a lot less of an annoyance on ranged because you don't need to move nearly as much.

Yeah, to each their own.
It's something different caring for the slow and only walk in intervals, which I dislike more with my caster alts than my melee alts.
Only being able to use one spell > walk > spell > walk, while looking at voids, is kinda not funny.

[Pandragon]

loosing control of your char

Try doing them as a WW during Scorching Feet weeks. I can't even run one of my main damage abilities cause it just throws me if the feet activate when I was it. Same with Leaden foot cause it acts as movement and instantly gives me several stacks of the debuff.

[Bigbazz]

Yeah, to each their own.
It's something different caring for the slow and only walk in intervals, which I dislike more with my caster alts than my melee alts.
Only being able to use one spell > walk > spell > walk, while looking at voids, is kinda not funny.

Changed my mind, the jumping thing combined with the fire movement thing is extremely annoying. So I did 2x 5mask clears today (one on a 450 Fury alt), and throughout the whole thing I was just getting mad at the game. It's like the mirror images always seem to find a way to spawn with the gap next to bit of terrain blocking you.

And some mechanics have this thing where there is a delay between the game registering position and the effect. So for example you can stop while mounted and the mirror images will spawn after you stop but instead of around your char it spawns on your head and you get disorient. Same thing with the fire movement, you can be pressing forward but it registered a back key just prior to that and there is a latency thing so instead of knocking you forward as you're moving forward it knocks you backwards.

I was getting pissed off at this with heroic leap, I would heroic leap and it would cancel the leap mid air and knock me the opposite way, because I probably tapped back just before moving forward and leaping. Similar situation can be seen when doing the "Life cycle" daily with the crab, the visual animation is slower than the actual effect, and there is a big delay between input and action. So you can visibly move into the line of fire with the crab and not get hit because they don't sync up exactly, similarly you can visibly be out of the fire and still get hit. So it's like playing Quake with a 56k modem in 1999.

[Sageless]

This sounds like a gitgud and L2P type problem.

By your complaints, I don't imagine you raid, do mythic+, or anything else in WoW because those are the types of things you go up against in pretty much any type of WoW activity.

Just an FYI, there are reasons only a very small tiny mini percentage of players does high level mythic+ and raids.

The reason for me not to do it anymore, is because I find that content terrible. Instead of making compelling challenging content, affixes are added instead. And all of these have one thing in common, they reduce the time you can actually play your character. Sure some players find it fun to optimize their play so they can play their character 55% of the fight instead of 50%. For me, I prefer to actually be able to play my character.

Taking this into account and then looking at horrific visions, they just doubled down on adding annoying affixes making your character unplayable. To be honest though it was still fun and exiting to do my 5 masks solo for the first time. But this shit is not suitable for repeat play several times every week. It's the chore that's needed to increase your power as a player in other areas of the game. This is fun for a short while, until you notice that with the increased power the only relevant content available again is affix infested shite.

Also as someone will likely mention that you don't have to play it, I agree. Which is why my sub will run out at the end of the month. Only reason I continued playing up till now was that I don't have an alternative game to play, but content is so bad being bored is now more entertaining.

[Azerate]

...I can not even describe how concept of horrific vissions is poor, horrible and annoying. How the fck jumping, running like moron, loosing control of your char, can be fun for somebody is beyond me. That type of things have nothing with skills and good and smart gameplay. It is annoying and stupid as fck. If I want playing that kind of shit, I will turn on shity nintento and play shity mario games or whatever they called....

Oh look, it's the good old "I want difficulty but not this kind of difficulty" again. The problem with these kinds of arguments that once you learn the visions, you are pretty much able to reliably clear them whenever. Why is that, if the affixes are supposedly so random and unfair? The answer is obviously they are not. Everything that is in visions you can learn, master, and never have to worry about it again as long as you're not doing them drunk or high. Funnily enough, the "shity mario games" are almost purely skill based, so you misfired with that comparison completely. It would be hard to come up with a better example of a skill based game than that.

mage tower was great. because it was 1 high quality fight, forced you to play out your whole spec/class and use nearly all spells you have, with pure vanity rewards. scalable, learnable, progressable, challenging and fun.

Mage towers were fine, and it's up to each and every person whether they liked towers more than visions or the other way around. However it is false that they scaled as you claim. They did not, which removed a lot of the challenge actually. Mage towers were considered current content until BfA prepatch, while at the same time being a 7.2 feature. With heroic 7.3 gear you could faceroll most of the mage towers by outgearing them, or at the very least overpower them to a major extent. You can't do that with visions, because they are 8.3 feature. A lot of the hype aroudn mage towers is a remnant of what they were upon release. This was also reinforced by youtubers who obviously went and started doing all those challenges right away. That's how the legendary tales of difficulty began. The reality is mage towers, except maybe the tank one, were mostly outdpsed by the end of Legion, which is when most of the player base completed them.

one thing that blizz does right is player retention. hell, people like you think the game is shit but you still waste your time posting about it. /shrug.

Yeah, and he's so mad because he would like to stop playing but cannot

Yeah they’re petty shit. The design around dodging shit every 5 seconds comes from current game design catering to ADHD addicts who are unable to stop and appreciate what they’re doing. They crave ridiculous challenge because it silences their overactive mentally ill minds that they want to be free of. Blizzard and most game designers now cater to this type of gamer. No longer are games immersive experiences, they are overly produced drugs.

Okay cool, and at the same time everyone complains how the game is getting easier and easier and you are showered with rewards for doing nothing. Can't have it both ways, it's either one or the other. Visions are challenging but they aren't anything too hard for an average player to master with some attempts and gear.

[Athulua]

Just an FYI, there are reasons only a very small tiny mini percentage of players does high level mythic+ and raids.

The reason for me not to do it anymore, is because I find that content terrible. Instead of making compelling challenging content, affixes are added instead. And all of these have one thing in common, they reduce the time you can actually play your character. Sure some players find it fun to optimize their play so they can play their character 55% of the fight instead of 50%. For me, I prefer to actually be able to play my character.

Taking this into account and then looking at horrific visions, they just doubled down on adding annoying affixes making your character unplayable. To be honest though it was still fun and exiting to do my 5 masks solo for the first time. But this shit is not suitable for repeat play several times every week. It's the chore that's needed to increase your power as a player in other areas of the game. This is fun for a short while, until you notice that with the increased power the only relevant content available again is affix infested shite.

Also as someone will likely mention that you don't have to play it, I agree. Which is why my sub will run out at the end of the month. Only reason I continued playing up till now was that I don't have an alternative game to play, but content is so bad being bored is now more entertaining.

I farm 4 masks on my farm runs, the amount of mementos gained is very similar, heck sometimes i get more out of 4 masks.

Turn off the double madness mask. This is the bad one, not -50% sanity. Sanity is a non issue once you learn the mechanics and and bait the titanic proc on toughest fights (for example Rexxar - wait before pulling him, then killing the first boar will trigger sanity immunity proc)

Dual madness tho, that's the annoying part. Having to deal with both mirror images and slow / fearing circle at once is a nightmare. That's nasty CC and stacking two at once is just not fun to play.

@Azerate - mage towers suffered similar fate to Kanthared Ebonlocke fight in MOP. 5.2 content, very tough fight if you do it at gear it's been designed to be ran at (between 500 and 530 item level). If you went in there a year and a half after its release with full SOO HC gear you could outgear it quite considerably. Well, except for enrage timer, people figured out that you could use a potion from Vanilla WOW (Purification potion) to completely negate the hard enrage timer. But otherwise, the fight still needed the player to utilize most of warlock spells to kill.

[MrLachyG]

I have kinda ignored mask runs until today. Before today I did 2 single mask runs; one in SW and one in Org just to get the other masks. managed to solo 3 masks quite easily today and then pushed to 5. died twice to stupid shit (got knocked out of bounds and then tab targeted mobs that weren't in combat and pulled too much and died - I am sure tab target was fixed so it wouldn't pull out of combat mobs but whatever) then 3rd run got to Thrall but died with him on 25% or something. just gotta fine tune my run I think, more practice i get the better I will do.

[OFiveNine]

Horrific visions are just boring in general 5 mask is way too easy and is almost 0 challenge anymore so you get to just enjoy annoying mechanics as you try to not fall asleep. But I still need corrupted gear so i'm here slogging

[Bloodyleech]

Okay, I just did a fullclear with my Holy-Paladin (yes, healer, not dps nor tank) at cloak Rank 7, ofc no masks, but unlocked Elite Extermination (no emergency ress).
Had about 150 sanity left at the end.
It's all about killing priotity targets and caring for mechanics. Fkd up once, but luckily Pally got bubble, I guess.