If blizzard sold transmog sets in the shop

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

As far as I'm aware, all you need to do to be able to do the mog quest is to have SL pre-ordered, and then you can just accept the quest from someone else's Everwyrm. I believe Blizzard has even gone on the record and said that was intentional, and not a bug.

The guy I replied to made it sound like we all received a shop transmog when in reality you get the set by just buying the expansion and play it.

[Accendor]

Yep. You don't win at WoW, it doesn't have a finish line, but there are all sorts of things you can win, and quite a lot of them can be...helped with gold.

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I'll never understand this.

If you like a game or whatever, how can you abandon it over something that quite literally doesn't affect you in any way, shape or form? Maybe it's because you weren't really into the game/product to begin with, so then anything at all can convince you to bail. So why should the company even bother to convince you to stay if you're with one foot out the door anyway?

The Quartering poser does the same shit. "Oh, because Blizzard banned Blitzchung, I will no longer play the game. My level 5 character that I play once every 2 weeks for like 5 minutes, will remain where it is".

I am not going to discuss with you again why stuff that gets put into the store affects everybody, because that discussion is nearly 10 years old. The fact that you do not understand it is sad, but if you did not understand it until now, I will not be able to change that.

[crusadernero]

i can totally appreciate where you're coming from and i don't completely disagree. in a perfect world they would be able to have two raids per tier and new dungeons, new set bonuses, new appearances, etc every few months. i have a feeling their response to what you're suggesting would be "that'll cost a raid tier!" so you make a side team that their only job is to make sweet transmog sets to purchase for 10-15 bucks on the online store.

for a little extra coin you get to look badass, while still using your time in game to further your power

In a perfect world we should always demand the best out of one of the best gaming companies the last 20 years. We should never, ever, let them get by with cheap shop options like this that devalues the whole game.

Yeah sure, fiancially its a no brainer. Ofc they should put Tmog gear, weapons, mounts++ on the shop instead of actually deliver more and better game content. The first option is much less work and will give alot of money. The other option require alot more work, a bigger team and not that much income.

The game is slowly but steadily losing the "it" thing that made wow so great. If they were ever to start having Tmog gear++ on the shop, its like opening panderas box. From there on out what you get ingame will always look less cool than the shop options, cause that gives more money.

It really is different times. Vanilla wow, BC and parts of WotLK were clearly driven by big passion and desire to share a world with us, the players. The people behind wow wanted to share this amazing universe with all of us and make a great MMORPG. They wanted us to experience Azeroth. The very game itself was the selling point, not what mount or gear you could buy from a virtual shop so your character looked cool(But you look the same as everyone else that buys it).

Today? "let me buy Tmog set from shop for 20 dollars, cant be bothered spending time in this game." Its just plain consumerism and after not long people are tierd of that 20 dollar set they want more to throw money at. Its shallow and it lacks depth and in the long run it will hurt the game.

Cant really blame gaming companies for having these online shops. Less work, alot more money. Who would have thought that 20-30 years ago.

Im probably just to much old school and a lost cause on this one. Different folks, different strokes I guess.

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And you believe that removing a significant chunk of their revenue is going to help towards this objective?

Honestly, I cannot understand why people around here cannot connect the dots and recognise that there is no rational scenario in which the shop leads to less in-game content, and, in all probability is probably responsible for a sizeable chunk of the content we currently enjoy.

I suspect it's because people are so fixated on hating the shop that they're not thinking this through....

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Probably not, and thats the crossroad blizzard is at now, especially if they are even considering building upon the online shop with more stuff. Im just saying we should demand better from them, not less that in the end makes the players spend more money without really getting alot out of it.

Ofc they need revenue, but sometimes it can be smart to ask yourself "when is there enough revenue?". Ok sure, they are doing this for the money. Sure, they need income like everyone else. But they cant forget what they in the end really are working on - and thats creating a great game where alot of people spend alot of time. Theres needs to be a balance to it, it cant be all about revenue. With that argument, everything in the game should be available on the online shop cause that would probably increase revenue.

The more stuff that is put up on the store, the more it devalues the game overall. The depth, the complexity and the connection you get to the game wont be there anymore.

Saying that more mounts, Tmog gear/weps on the online shop would create more content in the game is just bizarr. By that logic we should have gotten alot more content the last couple of years, but we havent. The game has turned to the worse, and yet people start demanding more cash shop options instead of focusing on Blizzards failure to deliver what matters the most - a good game.

Tmog gear that people would buy on the shop wont fix anything with the game. You can spend hundreds of dollars on Tmog gear and yeah it would probably feel good right there and then and for a short period, when running around looking all cool. Then that itch is gone and you want to buy more, you need a new set cause the sets you have is boring. It delivers little to the game besides short time awe of looking cool, and takes away precious time they can spend on actually making the game high quality.

We would be left alone with a shell of game while looking cool in Tmog gear we are already bored of and wondering "what the hell happend to this game".

[Lora]

That isn't winning either. You cannot beat the game of WoW because their is nothing to beat.

cant imagine being that dense. gear is the source of power in WoW. having gold to buy the best gear = p2w. simple facts broheim.

[Sansnom]

The discussion was about whether or not buying stuff with gold can be p2w.

To be more specific, it was about transmog set. Cosmetic items.

[Rendark]

You can't change the definition of p2w to suit your agenda. It has always meant "Pay to win". You do not win in WoW and you don't gain any advantages either.

No it hasn't. Pay to win means just what i said it does and it always has.

[dess]

What if Blizzard sold transmog sets in the shop?

I don't care as long as it doesn't encroach on the raiders. Let the end game people have their rewards.

[Jinpachi]

No, this is an MMO being time consuming is part of the genre. You do not get to buy yourself special rewards for no reason. Pick up a class guide and play the game if you want its rewards. You shouldn't be thrown amazing looking gear at level 1 because you're willing to dump cash on it. Furthermore this will only incentivize Blizzard to put the best looking sets in the game on the cash shop (kind of like they do with mounts) as if those sets do not stand out they will not sell, thus depriving the actual content of a good reward.

Paid tmog sets arent special rewards, they're in game shop items. You don't define what features an MMO can or cannot have.

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League of Legends proved the business model for exactly this. I'd totally pay money for exclusive, in-game shop only tmog sets.

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I don't care as long as it doesn't encroach on the raiders. Let the end game people have their rewards.

tmog sets dont encroach on the raiders. What do they care, it's not like the sets have any stats, they're purely cosmetic. "mUh ePeEn" isnt an argument.

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P2w doesn't really mean to "win" the game. It means to use real world money to get a in game advantage.

tmog sets don't give an in-game advantage. purchasing tier items gives an in-game advantage. paying for carries gives an in-game advantage, even if using gold to pay for it.

[Raelbo]

Probably not, and thats the crossroad blizzard is at now, especially if they are even considering building upon the online shop with more stuff. Im just saying we should demand better from them, not less that in the end makes the players spend more money without really getting alot out of it.

Where exactly am I saying anything about demanding less from them? My argument is that if we expect them to keep delivering, in spite of a significant reduction in subscription numbers over the years, then we also need to accept the need for supplementary revenue streams.

Ofc they need revenue, but sometimes it can be smart to ask yourself "when is there enough revenue?".

That's a perfectly valid question to be asking. The problem with your argument that follows is that you don't seem to have properly considered the question before simply deciding that they must already have more than enough.

Yet if we look at the evidence, we have:

• an aging game with probably only a third of the subscriber that it had at its peak
• a subscription that hasn't increased in 15 years despite inflation
• a development team that has continued to grow over the years and is currently the biggest it has ever been

I just don't see how this would be possible without the shop (or some other alternative means to generate that revenue).

Ok sure, they are doing this for the money. Sure, they need income like everyone else. But they cant forget what they in the end really are working on - and thats creating a great game where alot of people spend alot of time. Theres needs to be a balance to it, it cant be all about revenue. With that argument, everything in the game should be available on the online shop cause that would probably increase revenue.

I don't see any evidence that the focus of the game is "all about revenue".

The more stuff that is put up on the store, the more it devalues the game overall.

You need to substantiate this assertion because it's basically the foundation of your entire argument and I certainly do not believe it holds true.

Does the store have the potential to devalue the game? Sure, if the stuff they put on there shifts the focus of the game onto using the shop over doing content - what I would call p2w (although some of what people like to call p2w doesn't really qualify). And thus far, nothing on the shop meets that definition of p2w, so I can't really see how putting more of it on the store would devalue the game at all.

Saying that more mounts, Tmog gear/weps on the online shop would create more content in the game is just bizarr.

No. What is bizarre is the logic that concludes that more stuff in the shop leads to less in-game content. Opponents of the shop like to spin the narrative that the shop has to be "stealing" developer time that should be spent on in-game content, while conveniently ignoring the contribution that the shop has to be making to the development budget.

More stuff on the shop means more revenue. Which means more money available in the budget, which means a bigger development team, which means more stuff in-game.

The only way in which the shop could lead to less in-game content is if the stuff on the shop cost more to make than the revenue it brings in, and that simply makes zero sense. Apart from anything else, if the shop cost more to run than it made, there would be no reason for them to keep it running....

There is simply no scenario in which removing the shop will result in more content making it into the game. If you remove the shop (and it's revenue) that will result in a significant cut to the development team.

By that logic we should have gotten alot more content the last couple of years, but we havent.

False. The logic dictates simply we should expect to have more content than we would have had without the shop.

The game has turned to the worse, and yet people start demanding more cash shop options instead of focusing on Blizzards failure to deliver what matters the most - a good game.

Putting "instead of" makes no sense. The two things are not mutually exclusive.

Tmog gear that people would buy on the shop wont fix anything with the game. You can spend hundreds of dollars on Tmog gear and yeah it would probably feel good right there and then and for a short period, when running around looking all cool. Then that itch is gone and you want to buy more, you need a new set cause the sets you have is boring.

While it's true that being able to buy Tmog from the shop can't fix other problems in the game, how is that even relevant? There is still value for some players for whom being able to use that feature is a good thing.

Also, such a feature would be all about want, and nothing to do with need.

It delivers little to the game besides short time awe of looking cool, and takes away precious time they can spend on actually making the game high quality.

False. You're failing to consider the effect that the extra revenue would have on the system.

We would be left alone with a shell of game while looking cool in Tmog gear we are already bored of and wondering "what the hell happend to this game".

You're reaching for a causal relationship between two independent things.

I mean, sure the game could go that way. But we could just as easily be left alone with a shell a game while not looking cool in Tmog gear.

What I will say is this: Without the shop being able to supplement the game's revenue, that's probably where we'd already be.

[Kuja]

Sure. Cosmetics are fine. But once it goes to p2w, that is where I would draw a line. And I'd imagine store transmog sets wouldn't get wins in transmog competitions either.

[sam86]

i'm more curious of why
we have more transmog armor than u can use even once daily for an entire year, why u want more? in fact why would i or anyone buy it? to use it for 5 days then replace it with any of the 1502 armor i have now?
wow now is bloating, and i mean REALLY bloating, we have sh8tload of every single thing, be it mini pet, mount, transmog, just anything

[Sefer]

If this would be the case, you can be sure that every new piece of armor will look like shit (hey gw2) and all the fancy and cool looking stuff (maybe even tier sets) would be in the shop. So no, a big NO from me. Bad enough you can buy mounts & pets from the store.

[rrayy]

No it hasn't. Pay to win means just what i said it does and it always has.

Wrong. You are misusing it. YOu gain no advantages and you don't win anything. It is NOT p2w no matter how much you insist it is.

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cant imagine being that dense. gear is the source of power in WoW. having gold to buy the best gear = p2w. simple facts broheim.

Wrong. Gear does not guarantee success.

Buying gear does not guarnatee you will clear a mythic. That is a real fact. Not p2w.

[Rendark]

Wrong. You are misusing it. YOu gain no advantages and you don't win anything. It is NOT p2w no matter how much you insist it is.

Man you just love being wrong. Pay to win means playing real money for even the slightest game play advantages.

[Ghostile]

Man you just love being wrong. Pay to win means playing real money for even the slightest game play advantages.

The existence of Eve online proves you wrong tho.
The game has massive window for real money usage like wow token, but you won't do shit with it without knowledge and nobody considers the game P2W.
If wow had gear that gave you non-situational benefit and couldn't be countered with skill, it would be P2W.

For example, there is no way I would take a full mythic geared dude in my raid if he didn't know his shit.
And there is no way a full mythic geared player would survive in pvp without knowing his shit.

If you can't buy a win, it's not P2W.

[oplawlz]

The existence of Eve online proves you wrong tho.
The game has massive window for real money usage like wow token, but you won't do shit with it without knowledge and nobody considers the game P2W.
If wow had gear that gave you non-situational benefit and couldn't be countered with skill, it would be P2W.

For example, there is no way I would take a full mythic geared dude in my raid if he didn't know his shit.
And there is no way a full mythic geared player would survive in pvp without knowing his shit.

If you can't buy a win, it's not P2W.

This is nonsense. By your logic there is no such thing as pay to win in any game because somewhere somehow there is a player so pants on head retarded they could still lose with it.

P2W means gaining any in game advantage through spending real life money, period. No mental gymnastics on the part of apologists or shills are ever going to change that definition.

[Ghostile]

This is nonsense. By your logic there is no such thing as pay to win in any game because somewhere somehow there is a player so pants on head retarded they could still lose with it.

P2W means gaining any in game advantage through spending real life money, period. No mental gymnastics on the part of apologists or shills are ever going to change that definition.

Funnily enough the definition started as anything but mere spending real money to to get advantage.
It used to mean when not paying was a downright disadvantage.

[Rendark]

The existence of Eve online proves you wrong tho.
The game has massive window for real money usage like wow token, but you won't do shit with it without knowledge and nobody considers the game P2W.
If wow had gear that gave you non-situational benefit and couldn't be countered with skill, it would be P2W.

For example, there is no way I would take a full mythic geared dude in my raid if he didn't know his shit.
And there is no way a full mythic geared player would survive in pvp without knowing his shit.

If you can't buy a win, it's not P2W.

Pay to win doesn't mean paying to literally win a game.

[rrayy]

Man you just love being wrong. Pay to win means playing real money for even the slightest game play advantages.

Again, you are not getting any advantages on the game. Gold can easily be obtaind in the game, so you gain no advantage by buying it with a token.

Continuing to just declare yourself right doesn't make it so.You are still wrong.

[Rendark]

Again, you are not getting any advantages on the game. Gold can easily be obtaind in the game, so you gain no advantage by buying it with a token.

Continuing to just declare yourself right doesn't make it so.You are still wrong.

And yet it's you who is wrong. Doesn't matter if you can get it in game. If you can pay real money for it then that's p2w.