I can't be the only one predicting a permanent level 60 cap

[jediknight12]

i find it worse that our power is now based on the so called borrowed power that gets disabled/nerfed every xpack.

[Dracullus]

You realize people hate squishes?

Your bubble must be very small, most people like level squish. Even here we had only few threads from people that hated it.

i find it worse that our power is now based on the so called borrowed power that gets disabled/nerfed every xpack.

I hate this term so much. Every expansion is hard reset of game and your farming in expansion A is meaningless in expansion B. Only difference is that in older expansions gear was ONLY progression path after max level. But that formula doesn't work anymore and WoD was clear evidence for that.

[PenguinChan]

Your bubble must be very small, most people like level squish. Even here we had only few threads from people that hated it.



I hate this term so much. Every expansion is hard reset of game and your farming in expansion A is meaningless in expansion B. Only difference is that in older expansions gear was ONLY progression path after max level. But that formula doesn't work anymore and WoD was clear evidence for that.

Big difference is that borrowed powers give skills and play-style. These are taken away every expansion thus far and maybe one or two things that people liked stick around. That's pretty shitty feeling, ngl. It's what made me drop my Monk post Legion, felt like ass without the artifacts.

[razorpax]

Not certain anyone hates the idea of leveling, but most games forgo it so the number doesn't get stupid. 120 levels to a brand new player is absolutely daunting.

They could've stopped at 100, and simply used the artifact weapon as the leveling system of Legion, think of it like GW2's mastery system. They chose not to do that. Now we're seeing a level 60 hard reset, and I'm at least partially convinced it will remain permanent.

If we saw Classic + with a level 60 cap, as well as Retail with a 60 cap, they would seem more similar, at least from the naked eye.

The only mmo I’ve seen that doesn’t use a level cap is destiny 2 right now and it’s because they started using a form of ilvl

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problem with that is 11.0 will boost it to 80, 12.0 will boost it to 90, 13.0 to 100 and then you're back in the same vicious cycle. keeping it at level 60 is a far better way, especially for new players

You kinda kill the sense of progression

I’m fine with waiting 12 years for another number squish

[rrayy]

Why go same route again? So early leveling could get worse and worse every expac after SL? Also pernament 60 won't mean you won't level again, you would get squished to 50 on 10.0 prepatch.

IT doesn't get "worse and worse". You can adjust the XP/XP reqirements to makes 1-60 take the same amount as 1-50 did. Getting squished to 50 again completely kills leveling and progression dead. There is absolutely no point in doing either.

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Your bubble must be very small, most people like level squish. Even here we had only few threads from people that hated it.

This forum does NOT = majority of players. You have no idea what the majority likes.

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And yet, power is necessarily soft-reset every 6 months, and the game essentially rewritten every two years. Every expansion launch we all have to re-learn our classes and our power starts over in the context of a new expansion. A reset to 50 every expansion pre-patch is only a more honest representation of what already happens each expansion.

WoW hasn’t presented “level” as something to lord over other players in ages, and indeed needs regular on-ramps via catchup mechanics and gear resets to make the game approachable to new or returning players. All of this is necessary for the health of the game.

NO it doesn't. It kills all sense of progression. Level number is what makes it feel like you are progression. There is no progression if EVEYTHING is reset. You need something that isn't reset every expansion to give a feel of progression.

[Omedon]

IT doesn't get "worse and worse". You can adjust the XP/XP reqirements to makes 1-60 take the same amount as 1-50 did. Getting squished to 50 again completely kills leveling and progression dead. There is absolutely no point in doing either.

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This forum does NOT = majority of players. You have no idea what the majority likes.

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NO it doesn't. It kills all sense of progression. Level number is what makes it feel like you are progression. There is no progression if EVEYTHING is reset. You need something that isn't reset every expansion to give a feel of progression.

Cosmetics are forever.

[rrayy]

problem with that is 11.0 will boost it to 80, 12.0 will boost it to 90, 13.0 to 100 and then you're back in the same vicious cycle. keeping it at level 60 is a far better way, especially for new players

That isn't a problem. All they have to do is makes leveling from 1-60 in 10.0 the same amount of time as 1-50 did in Shadowlands. Keeping it at 60 is a terrible way that completely kills progression.

[heerobya]

That would work out pretty well. It would also prevent the inevitable problem of leveling becoming longer and longer as they add expansions.

Works for me! Just hope they find a way to clean up the 10-50 process a bit to focus more on the main storyline of that xpac and even x.1, x.2 etc. content and 1 player + NPCs scenario versions of big RAID fights important to the story.

Like, cut away all non-essential quests from the 10-50 experience, make the leveling/zone progression curve nice and neat, put all the side quests back in if you turn on the low-level quest icons that kind of a thing.

It was some streamers idea called Path of the Curator or something, and it was brilliant.

[rrayy]

Cosmetics are forever.

This isn't cosmetic. It is a feeling of being more powerful. There is zero point in playing the game if you are completely reset every expansion. By your logic, they should just reset everyone to level 1. Killing progression kills the game.

[cuafpr]

god no... resetting every expac? hell no. I swore I'd never stop playing wow but that would just about do it. I would become a full LFR hero for story only player though. In my opinion, they should be steam lining the stories of each Expac and require new players to go through them via Bronze Dragon quest not doing the choose your expac method anyways.

[BreathTaker]

Too bad i'll not play a game without leveling

[rrayy]

Holy necro-quote batman!

But sure.

Right now people have to play 120 levels of World of Warcraft to reach the end-game, which many people consider to be the "true" game. For someone just picking up the game or returning from a long 5+ year hiatus you start wondering things like "do I need to buy each expansion?" "Will I understand the story?" "How long will it take me to reach level cap with so many levels?"

THey would not have had this problem if they hadn't nerfed leveling into the ground because players thought it was too fast. I find it hilarious that they ner leveling because people felt it was too fast, and now Blizzard changed it because it is too much. They created their own problem by nerfing things to begin with,.

[Omedon]

This isn't cosmetic. It is a feeling of being more powerful. There is zero point in playing the game if you are completely reset every expansion. By your logic, they should just reset everyone to level 1. Killing progression kills the game.

What I’m reading between the lines here is that you need a permanent logistical edge over players that arrive later or take a break. That seems fine for you but is a terrible pitch in selling the game to others.

[rrayy]

What I’m reading between the lines here is that you need a permanent logistical edge over payers that arrive later or take a break. That seems fine for you but is a terrible pitch in selling the game to others.

Wrong. I already gave examples of how this could be done so that the level number could increase and things not be daunting. If leveling only takes you 10 hours, for example, who cares whether you have 120 levels or 60? It takes you 10 hours regardless. The number beside your avatar is not the problem. IT the amount of time it takes is what is. So, now that they have things set up for Shadowlands as they do, all they have to to is make 1-60 in 10.0 take the same amount of time as 1-50 in Shadowlands. DO that every expansion. That way, you can add more levels and not add any more time. You will just ding levels much faster. You keep that sense of progression and things don't get more daunting. You can always go back to 60 after reaching 100 again.

What I am seeing from this thread is using new/returning players to hide the real reason you want this which is you are afraid of big numbers.

[Omedon]

Wrong. I already gave examples of how this could be done so that the level number could increase and things not be daunting. If leveling only takes you 10 hours, for example, who cares whether you have 120 levels or 60? It takes you 10 hours regardless. The number beside your avatar is not the problem. IT the amount of time it takes is what is. So, now that they have things set up for Shadowlands as they do, all they have to to is make 1-60 in 10.0 take the same amount of time as 1-50 in Shadowlands. DO that every expansion. That way, you can add more levels and not add any more time. You will just ding levels much faster. You keep that sense of progression and things don't get more daunting. You can always go back to 60 after reaching 100 again.

What I am seeing from this thread is using new/returning players to hide the real reason you want this which is you are afraid of big numbers.

I leveled about 10 new characters to 120 in BFA. I assure you I do not fear big numbers, I just understand the motivation behind the squish and see a pattern, as laid out in the OP.

[rrayy]

I leveled about 10 new characters to 120 in BFA. I assure you I do not fear big numbers, I just understand the motivation behind the squish and see a pattern, as laid out in the OP.

It's not a pattern. It's what you want. If you are not afraid of big numbers, then you should be embracing my idea. You keep progression and don't make leveling more daunting.

As it is, this was a problem that Blizzard created by nerfing leveling into the ground at the end of Legion in the first place. Nobody saw it as daunting until after Blizzzrd did that.

[Shelly]

THey would not have had this problem if they hadn't nerfed leveling into the ground because players thought it was too fast. I find it hilarious that they ner leveling because people felt it was too fast, and now Blizzard changed it because it is too much. They created their own problem by nerfing things to begin with,.

Blizzard didn't make leveling take longer because of the players, they did it for the same reason they do a lot of things. They worked hard on the content and want players to be able to experience at the very least the full leveling story of an expansion.

On top of that a very high max level is just in and of itself daunting. No people aren't afraid of big numbers, but the fact remains that even if you can eat a 36-ounce steak and be excited to do so it's pretty damn daunting when one is placed in front of you.

[Unholyground]

They could just stop increasing the damn level cap every expansion period since we get borrowed power mechanics, it is rather pointless. Just have each zone have their own experience bar in future expansions that would level the entire zone up a certain amount of times granting you more content within each of the new zones.

[Dracullus]

This forum does NOT = majority of players. You have no idea what the majority likes..

On this & official forum, youtube comments, chat on various twitch streamers, reddit, finally my friends and just random people on trade on PTR - I saw almost zero complains about level squish, some people were happy about it, most were neutral (cause surprise, surprise, for max level it doesn't matter at all). People react positively especially on new leveling system.

If these majority of people that hates level squish is out somewhere, they must be really well hidden.

[rrayy]

Blizzard didn't make leveling take longer because of the players, they did it for the same reason they do a lot of things. They worked hard on the content and want players to be able to experience at the very least the full leveling story of an expansion.

I'm talking about nerfing leveling at the end of Legion. They outright said they did it because of the complaints that leveling was going too fast. So it is quite hilarious to watch them nerf leveling into the ground and then claim that leveling is too daunting. They certainly didn't see it that way before they nerfed it into the ground, did they?

On top of that a very high max level is just in and of itself daunting. No people aren't afraid of big numbers, but the fact remains that even if you can eat a 36-ounce steak and be excited to do so it's pretty damn daunting when one is placed in front of you.

Hardly, especially if the levels come fast enough, If you can eat a 36 oz steak in the same amount of time as a 16 oz steak, the wieght of the steak is irrelevant and not daunting. There problem was how fast it took to level, not how many levels there are.