Ret getting nerfed hard again in alpha while not addressing gameplay issues.

[ExiHext]

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...-on-gcd/630189
I stand corrected.

[Puzzony]

So instead of actually fixing the spec they bandaid it with getting half of the spells from the gcd. 10/10

[Shedaar]

It's first post today, I really hope for more balancing changes this week, I believe they just started their shift

[Swnem]

So instead of actually fixing the spec they bandaid it with getting half of the spells from the gcd. 10/10

It's no band aid.

It will help the feel, but the feel is hardly what is wrong with Ret.

It brings zero utility. When prot and holy are strong specs at their roles but Ret isn't. I don't think we will be allowed to be one of the top damage specs, but at this point, it is all we could be. We got no utility. Sacrifice? Not really needed, all tanks will have low CD defensive's or don't need it. Bubble? There's plenty of immunities in the game from specs that bring other utility too, better mobility, better defensive's. Aura's? Likely there will be a prot or holy in the group cause they are strong specs. Even if not, you offer a whopping 3% damage reduction.

Like, i am really dumbfounded by this. There is literally no reason at this point to play Ret except liking the theme. But, it will be impossible to not feel like you are holding back your group. Paladin... the historically utility based class, not bringing utility anymore. It blows the mind.

I await with baited breath more changes or this time we are in really really deep s***. Unless they let us be a top damage spec. But, yeah... not holding my breath for that. I can see the new talents getting huge nerfs once people one shot targets on PVP with them.

I wish they even gave a rationale to having removed AoE WoG, Kings and wisdom. Deary me... will they stop listening to the nostalgic nuts? What they wanted was the old blessing system. At this point, i'd even take it.

[apelsinjuice]

wog with healing hands is really good single target now

[Puzzony]

They nerfed the spec AHAHAHAHA
Execution sentence does less damage, Sanctified Wrath only generates 1 extra hp instead of 2, and AW doesnt give guaranteed crit for the first spender anymore.
At this point i believe they are fucking high as a kite.

[Demsi]

They nerfed the spec AHAHAHAHA
Execution sentence does less damage, Sanctified Wrath only generates 1 extra hp instead of 2, and AW doesnt give guaranteed crit for the first spender anymore.
At this point i believe they are fucking high as a kite.

New talents dont come cheap these days

[Swnem]

Wow... i didn't see these nerfs coming at all...

[Rogal Dorn]

They nerfed the spec AHAHAHAHA
Execution sentence does less damage, Sanctified Wrath only generates 1 extra hp instead of 2, and AW doesnt give guaranteed crit for the first spender anymore.
At this point i believe they are fucking high as a kite.

Sanctified Wrath do not generate hp for ret, AW is off gcd now and a nerf to execution sentence dont mean anything outside a context.

[Swnem]

wog with healing hands is really good single target now

Well... it is good if it crits. If it doesn't it will heal less than 1/4 of your hp for 3 hp and a global. On the PTR that is. I dunno how the scaling is at lvl 60. I guess it's ok-ish? Lay on hands is still bugged with healing hands though.

[Delever]

Meanwhile in his latest video Preach says the spec is very solid and they will have ret int heir raid setup. He was even considering it as one of his mains before settling on unholy dk.

[ThiagoTorres]

Meanwhile in his latest video Preach says the spec is very solid and they will have ret int heir raid setup. He was even considering it as one of his mains before settling on unholy dk.

Yeah, i saw.. Problem of most classes are influent ppl that dont know much about a class and split around that it is good when it doesnt, than when expansion release they realise that class is really sucks and roll to another one

And blizzard only saw those influent ppl opinion and dont fix a class that is a really mess, like ret pally and others like monk too

[apelsinjuice]

Meanwhile in his latest video Preach says the spec is very solid and they will have ret int heir raid setup. He was even considering it as one of his mains before settling on unholy dk.

preach know nothing, watch the asmongold video when he talks with people like Narcolies from ex method/Echo and Savix one of the best pvp ret pallies. Or slootbag ret paladin discussion with some other top end ret paladins and they all say the same thing, that its garbage

[ExiHext]

Meanwhile in his latest video Preach says the spec is very solid and they will have ret int heir raid setup. He was even considering it as one of his mains before settling on unholy dk.

Sure ret will have its niche...the problem I see with ret is not being unviable in PvE (it sure will be unviable in PvP besides the occasional unrated battleground where you will shred the unexperienced player, but who cares about that?), but being unfun because of low mobility and first and foremost: a lot of dead talents. If let's say ES/FR combo stays as busted as it is right now, RV will see no play, Zeal perhaps in heavy AoE situations. You also almost HAVE to pair ES/FR with Sera for max burst. I hate Sera. I'd like to have DP viable for once.
But blizz is just not able to design somewhat equal talents...there are always the outliers. If they could finally balance talents properly (or at least different talent builds) ret would perhaps be enjoyable...but ES/Sera/FS makes me already want to vomit.

[StrawberryZebra]

preach know nothing, watch the asmongold video when he talks with people like Narcolies from ex method/Echo and Savix one of the best pvp ret pallies. Or slootbag ret paladin discussion with some other top end ret paladins and they all say the same thing, that its garbage

They're discussing two different things. Preach is having a conversation on if the Paladin is fun to play. Asmongold and co are discussing if the Paladin is a strong performer in PvP.

It can be fun without being powerful. It could be powerful without being fun. It could be both or neither.

Though I'm getting a lot of mixed messages from Asmongolds chat. They both don't want damage buffs and are lacking in burst damage. They want more utility, more survivability and more mobility. They want paladins to be balanced, but also unstoppable lawbringers and bringers of righteous vengence. They're bemoaning the lack of utility, but then complaining about buffing their teammates.

McConnell especially comes across very poorly in this regard. You can't declare that "Uther was a useless dogshit ret!", then have an "Uther's Gathering" of Paladins. They all came in just to air out their grievances in public. And I get it, they feel like Blizzard have been ignoring them so they're using what they see as another channel to get Blizzard's attention.

But what they presented was a highly conflicted and contradictory set of demands, along with a general "Make Ret good again" sentiment. It's no wonder they feel like Blizzard are ignoring them, they're asking for the impossible. I never thought I'd say this, but I actually agree with Asmongold - It was a Ret Paladin Support group.

[Tyris Flare]

Unfortunately almost all the class panels are tainted by bitterness of long-term players. There's a lot of "familiarity breeds contempt" so it is hard to get unbiased opinions, especially since we don't have thousands of logs to sift through.

That said, unless tuning ends up making Ret a top performer (unlikely - it's almost always in the middle-ish), it doesn't bring anything that other melee or other paladins don't. Part of this is perpetually living in the shadow of holy paladins - they have a completely unique raid cooldown in Aura Mastery that makes them invaluable in serious progression. That means every raid of note is already going to have at least one paladin for BoPs and freedoms, and there is usually diminishing returns - especially if prot is strong this tier.

M+ has a similar problem in that realistically there's usually only 1-2 melee spots (**obviously varies sometimes with triple rogue teams**) and Ret cannot compete with rogues, let alone DH, in an environment where toolkit and CC makes such a big difference.

[Swnem]

Meanwhile in his latest video Preach says the spec is very solid and they will have ret int heir raid setup. He was even considering it as one of his mains before settling on unholy dk.

He is bs'ing for the video. Only thing going for it is the BoP cause apparantly it can clear bleeds which are a thing in the first raid. Still, it's unlikely anyone would take one unless the damage is good. 1 bleed removal every 3 minutes really isn't much. They will just run holys or prots if needed.

[Sphynnxx]

I only do m+ so cant really say much on raid viability, but from the testing I've done there is no reason to play Ret as Prot / Holy provide the same utility but also do their jobs better.

I'll be switching to Rogue / DK and maybe level the Ret as an alt; maybe a couple of major patches in it might feel as good as the burst machine it is just now - the problem is Light's Decree, VoP + full mastery is the most viable it's felt all expansion and that's pretty much all gone.

[Dravec]

I know it’s all doom and gloom on here, but y’all need to understand the difference between PvE and PvP.

Preach is talking about pure PvE. Ret sucking in PvP is completely irrelevant when Preach couldn’t give half of a fuck about PvP.

Ret is actually good in PvE on the beta. Good single target burst, good AoE esp with some of the covenants, good utility. Like as if one Holy or Prot Paladin is all that’s needed lmao. Think y’all are confusing Ret with Feral.

[Swnem]

I know it’s all doom and gloom on here, but y’all need to understand the difference between PvE and PvP.

Preach is talking about pure PvE. Ret sucking in PvP is completely irrelevant when Preach couldn’t give half of a fuck about PvP.

Ret is actually good in PvE on the beta. Good single target burst, good AoE esp with some of the covenants, good utility. Like as if one Holy or Prot Paladin is all that’s needed lmao. Think y’all are confusing Ret with Feral.

Nah. Ret is missing utility. All the good utility got removed. That is the PvE problem.

Indeed Ret has the damage atm, but you are out of your mind if you think nerfs aren't coming to ES and Final reckoning. It nearly one-shots people. Threads are already on the official forums. When it goes live, a deluge will happen cause no one accepts that from Ret.

So, where will you be once you get nerfed? What will you bring? 3% damage reduction *snort*? You are being naive. Some of us have made this dance enough times that we know what's going to happen and are trying to avoid it. But, it's never worked so far.

So, it most definitely is doom and gloom, sorry to inform. Unless Blizzard wakes up before it's too late. Chances are they won't though. And Ret is gonna be a pariah for the whole of SL with another revamp come next xpac.