9.0 General Discussion

[huth]

It's not great and it's not ideal but they could have come up with something a LOT worse.

If it wasn't at least a little effort, it wouldn't serve much purpose. This seems like a fair compromise between letting people that are unhappy with their choice switch and discouraging constant hopping.

[gunner_recall]

If it wasn't at least a little effort, it wouldn't serve much purpose. This seems like a fair compromise between letting people that are unhappy with their choice switch and discouraging constant hopping.

They could always charge real money to swap covenants and avoid the quest.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

They could always charge real money to swap covenants and avoid the quest.

...........Stop that right now.

[TheFirstOnes]

I'm gonna say this right now...

I like the "rejoin Covenant" system. It ain't long. It ain't stupid. It's neat.

[gunner_recall]

...........Stop that right now.

I'm tryna get them Activision bucks, my dude.

[TheFirstOnes]

Also, in regards to a "Dark Alliance".

They could always make the Light/Shadow thing 1 expansion. Call it "The Great War" or something like that. There, you can make a Logo that's Purple with Yellow around it, you can make the expansion focus be about the Void Lords, the Infinite Flight, with a side plot regarding the "Dark Alliance" with Yrel, the Scarlet Crusade, and Turaylon, etc.

You could bring back Sargeras, bring in Ka'resh for the last patch, meet Elune and maybe the First Ones for the first time, commune with Azeroth's Titan, and then end the Expansion off with the great final battle against the Void Lords.

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If BFA can work, and if Legion can work as singular expansions, why not the Light/Shadow conflict?

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

I'm gonna say this right now...

I like the "rejoin Covenant" system. It ain't long. It ain't stupid. It's neat.

Yeah I like that it isn't just a hot swap. I imagine it'll become one in 9.2 though.

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Also, in regards to a "Dark Alliance".

They could always make the Light/Shadow thing 1 expansion. Call it "The Great War" or something like that. There, you can make a Logo that's Purple with Yellow around it, you can make the expansion focus be about the Void Lords, the Infinite Flight, with a side plot regarding the "Dark Alliance" with Yrel, the Scarlet Crusade, and Turaylon, etc.

You could bring back Sargeras, bring in Ka'resh for the last patch, meet Elune and maybe the First Ones for the first time, commune with Azeroth's Titan, and then end the Expansion off with the great final battle against the Void Lords.

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If BFA can work, and if Legion can work as singular expansions, why not the Light/Shadow conflict?

You know what'd be fun? Take the Light and Shadow and make them both villains. Make 'em a pair of total fanatical realms that have slipped their leash without the Legion and the Undead around to worry about and are preparing for a war that would destroy Azeroth.

[Ersula]

If BFA can work, and if Legion can work as singular expansions, why not the Light/Shadow conflict?

For one, if you read Shadow's Rising, the game's two characters most deeply affiliated with Light & Darkness, are married, deeply in love & also bad influences on each other, as Turalyon & Alleria torture a human man to *death* in front if his family.

From that, and that the Shadowlands covenants see both the forces of Light & Shadow as a threat, I think we're gearing up for an expansion that's not Light versus Dark, but Light & Dark versus us.

[gunner_recall]

For one, if you read Shadow's Rising, the game's two characters most deeply affiliated with Light & Darkness, are married, deeply in love & also bad influences on each other, as Turalyon & Alleria torture a human man to *death* in front if his family.

From that, and that the Shadowlands covenants see both the forces of Light & Shadow as a threat, I think we're gearing up for an expansion that's not Light versus Dark, but Light & Dark versus us.

World of Warcraft: Custody of Arator

Also, this is gonna be an unpopular opinion but...if they made the Light/Void conflict span more than 1 expansion as the main conflict...I would be okay with that.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

World of Warcraft: Custody of Arator

Also, this is gonna be an unpopular opinion but...if they made the Light/Void conflict span more than 1 expansion as the main conflict...I would be okay with that.

Unlikely to happen even if as a narrative it would feel better. I mean the Legion could of done that ..................maybe but "Fel Fatique"

[Maxilian]

men bad, women good

Na na na, men dead, women alive. (Having in mind that the Maldraxxus guy kick the bucket in their starting questline, and we kick the Vampire guy in the head later)

[TheFirstOnes]

For one, if you read Shadow's Rising, the game's two characters most deeply affiliated with Light & Darkness, are married, deeply in love & also bad influences on each other, as Turalyon & Alleria torture a human man to *death* in front if his family.

From that, and that the Shadowlands covenants see both the forces of Light & Shadow as a threat, I think we're gearing up for an expansion that's not Light versus Dark, but Light & Dark versus us.

I mean, considering Legion was Order/Disorder, BFA was Alliance/Horde with the end of the Old God Threat, and now SL is Life/Death...

Yeah? We kinda should beat tf outta both the Light and Shadow. Especially considering Blizzard's making the players more godlike than Sylvanas and Me'dan FUSED at this rate.

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World of Warcraft: Custody of Arator

Also, this is gonna be an unpopular opinion but...if they made the Light/Void conflict span more than 1 expansion as the main conflict...I would be okay with that.

I'd love that too. But high chance it'll just be 1 expansion.

Reminder: Legion had the potential to be 2 Expansions (Thal'Dranath for 7.2, and Broken Isles ending with KJ's death in 7.3, then Argus the expac afterwards), same with BFA (Alliance Vs Horde could've been a thing with Azshara as the final boss, with the next expac being the Black Empire).

Hell, WoD could've been 2x the Expansion it was, with Farahlon, the Zangar Sea whales/sea life, Goria (Which got retconned into Highmaul), the Apexis Empire (Which got retconned into just more ancient Arakoa), and a Shattrath raid. But nope. High chance we'll POSSIBLY see Farahlon with AU Yrel though? One can only hope.

10.0 is 100% going to be Light and Shadow, with a Purple/Gold WoW logo (Considering we've never had those colors before in a WoW Logo, that'll be kinda cool), etc. My assumption is 10.1 will involve Yrel and the Scarlet Crusade, with 10.2 being revolved around the Void, a mini raid (Like with ToV, and CoS) involving us fighting Sargeras at the Seat of the Pantheon, and 10.3 or 10.4 being revolved around the Void Lords and their demise to the Players.

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Na na na, men dead, women alive. (Having in mind that the Maldraxxus guy kick the bucket in their starting questline, and we kick the Vampire guy in the head later)

Keep in mind that the Arbiter is literally in a coma throughout most of the expansion. Also note that the loading screen revolves around the Angelic and Satanic powers of Death.

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Yeah I like that it isn't just a hot swap. I imagine it'll become one in 9.2 though.

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You know what'd be fun? Take the Light and Shadow and make them both villains. Make 'em a pair of total fanatical realms that have slipped their leash without the Legion and the Undead around to worry about and are preparing for a war that would destroy Azeroth.

They're 100% making the Light (To a degree) AND Shadow villains. Their whole purpose is that they're literally always in a war. One cannot abide without the other.

Which is why the idea of a singular Light expansion is just not happening. Especially considering the Void Invasions in SL, Blizzard confirming that the Void Lords are pissed at us, Alleria's existence, Azshara and Sargeras being potential aids, and all that are clear hints that the Void will be a massive influence VERY VERY soon.

We have more Void implications than Light ones, really. So far, for the Light, we have: Elune and Tyrande, the Scarlet Crusade, AU Yrel, and Alliance drama (With a potential Dark Alliance maybe?). That alone cannot carry an expansion, at this rate. Blizzard's doing both. Oh, and Anduin is using some Void magics. :O

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As I said, I would 100% be on par with calling the next WoW Expansion: "The Great War"! That fits completely with the current Light/Shadow thing going on, you could include Sargeras, Azshara, Elune, the First Ones, and co in there for a bit, you can give us Ka'resh, and it would also give us the perfect title for a potential "climactic" WoW Expansion.

Also keep in mind that the Light/Shadow conflict's been called "The Great War!" a ton, so that's why I think a potential Light/Shadow expansion would be called that.

[Ersula]

snip

Legion didn't have an Order=Good theme. A big part of that expansion was leading an anarchist rebellion to overthrow the Suramar's government. Really, the Legion, despite coming from Chaos magic, is more orderly than its enemies. The Burning Legion was essentially Star Trek's Federation, only evil.

And I am so disappointed in how many people are discerning meaning over how concept art is placed on a loading screen. The leader of Maldraxxus isn't even bad. And Sire Denathrius being in league with the Jailer is supposed to be a twist. The placement of the Covenant leaders on the loading screen means nothing. Honestly I don't think the Jailer is the true villain because it's conspicuous that they go out of their way to never say why the Jailer was confined in the first place. If he's so evil why don't they explain why?

[TheFirstOnes]

Legion didn't have an Order=Good theme. A big part of that expansion was leading an anarchist rebellion to overthrow the Suramar's government. Really, the Legion, despite coming from Chaos magic, is more orderly than its enemies. The Burning Legion was essentially Star Trek's Federation, only evil.

And I am so disappointed in how many people are discerning meaning over how concept art is placed on a loading screen. The leader of Maldraxxus isn't even bad. And Sire Denathrius being in league with the Jailer is supposed to be a twist. The placement of the Covenant leaders on the loading screen means nothing. Honestly I don't think the Jailer is the true villain because it's conspicuous that they go out of their way to never say why the Jailer was confined in the first place. If he's so evil why don't they explain why?

Idc about the loading screens "meaning", really. It's just really cool to look at. Also, no one said Order=Good. It was just about Order/Disorder as a whole, with the Titans and Sargeras.

Also, and this is more on the topic here...

Why is Anduin is a very deep chamber in Torghast? Of all characters, why him?

[Cosmic Janitor]

Not sure if this was mentioned yet:

Hmm on the PTR the higher level crafter's marks vanished from your recipe list. Are they just hidden now? The lousy level II one shows as a requirement crafting level 100 and Avowed revered though. The optional item box also no longer has them as optional shown. Is this the same on beta? I hope Blizzard didn't just gut crafting even more by limiting it to ilvl 168 for the first tier...

[Ersula]

Why is Anduin is a very deep chamber in Torghast? Of all characters, why him?

If you remember that the early concept art of the Jailer looking very Titan-esque, I think that's still canon. His clothing & beard just burned off. Because the Jailer keeps Anduin but says Baine is "worthless" to him. Anduin & Baine are about equal in power, but the way they differ is that Anduin is the descendant of a Titan construct & Baine is not. So I think this has something to do with the Titans, only indirectly.

[TheFirstOnes]

If you remember that the early concept art of the Jailer looking very Titan-esque, I think that's still canon. His clothing & beard just burned off. Because the Jailer keeps Anduin but says Baine is "worthless" to him. Anduin & Baine are about equal in power, but the way they differ is that Anduin is the descendant of a Titan construct & Baine is not. So I think this has something to do with the Titans, only indirectly.

I don't think Anduin and Baine are equal at all tbh. Also, the Jailer isn't really a "titan". He's his own guy. I DO hope the bearded form is his fully released power, however. That would be cool asf to see.

Also, why would anything be relating to the Titans if the First One's are the talk of the town now? Even among the top Gods of the WoW Cosmology? Hell, the Arbiter predates even the Titan Pantheon itself, yet she and the Brokers seem to know about talk a lot about these "First Ones". High chance the First Ones of the top gods in ALL the Warcraft verse. Reigning above the Top Gods of each Cosmology.

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High chance Anduin is just there cause he's a threat (He is the Alliance leader, afterall), or he's connected to something relating to either the First Ones, or the Light/Shadow shit. Similar to how we Players are connected someway, somehow, to almost every Cosmic power we interact with in WoW. LMAO

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Why is the TBC Logo still low-resoluted? Every other Expansion logo in their respectful credits are HD.

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Also, 100% next build it the Music/Login.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

I mean the Login/Music has to come SOON. They're running out of time to avoid just running out the BFA login again.

[Ersula]

I don't think Anduin and Baine are equal at all tbh. Also, the Jailer isn't really a "titan". He's his own guy. I DO hope the bearded form is his fully released power, however. That would be cool asf to see.

Also, why would anything be relating to the Titans if the First One's are the talk of the town now? Even among the top Gods of the WoW Cosmology? Hell, the Arbiter predates even the Titan Pantheon itself, yet she and the Brokers seem to know about talk a lot about these "First Ones". High chance the First Ones of the top gods in ALL the Warcraft verse. Reigning above the Top Gods of each Cosmology.

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High chance Anduin is just there cause he's a threat (He is the Alliance leader, afterall), or he's connected to something relating to either the First Ones, or the Light/Shadow shit. Similar to how we Players are connected someway, somehow, to almost every Cosmic power we interact with in WoW. LMAO

Are you saying Anduin is stronger, or Baine is stronger? Because there's not much to go on. Everyone thinks Anduin is a crappy leader & he's a priest, and Baine is a Paladin. They're about the same, but Anduin is valuable to the Jailer but Baine is "worthless?" Their race is really the only thing that makes them different on an existential level.

Also, so much of this stuff we have no information on, if they don't start connecting it to stuff we already have a frame of reference for a lot people are going to be lost in this story. But what I'm going on is that the First One's aesthetic is reminiscent of the Titan's aesthetic, though not quite the same. Are the first ones the first dead? The first dead would be those unborn titans who were killed by old gods before the Titans got to them. Similar to Titans but not quite.

[TheFirstOnes]

Are you saying Anduin is stronger, or Baine is stronger? Because there's not much to go on. Everyone thinks Anduin is a crappy leader & he's a priest, and Baine is a Paladin. They're about the same, but Anduin is valuable to the Jailer but Baine is "worthless?" Their race is really the only thing that makes them different on an existential level.

Also, so much of this stuff we have no information on, if they don't start connecting it to stuff we already have a frame of reference for a lot people are going to be lost in this story. But what I'm going on is that the First One's aesthetic is reminiscent of the Titan's aesthetic, though not quite the same. Are the first ones the first dead? The first dead would be those unborn titans who were killed by old gods before the Titans got to them. Similar to Titans but not quite.

There's talk about "Titan homeworlds" and all, which could be stuff relating to the Shadowlands soon. But that's it. Also...

The Pantheon of Death are the first ones dead. Their realm was created because they were the first mortal dead to warp and create such a state. However, killing them does not mean the destruction of the area they made.

"The first dead would be those unborn titans who were killed by old gods before the Titans got to them. Similar to Titans but not quite." Titans go to their own realm. Otherwise, Argus would be in the Maw.

"Baine is a Paladin." He's a Warrior. "Everyone thinks Anduin is a crappy leader" Who? You mean the guys that don't even know the lore of BFA? Come on now. Anduin fucking won the War, and brought the Alliance and Horde to an Armistice.

"But what I'm going on is that the First One's aesthetic is reminiscent of the Titan's aesthetic" No they're not. Anduin legit stated in the Maw starting experience that he's studied Titan artifacts before with Bran, but he's NEVER seen anything like the First One's Relic before. The Seat of the Pantheon doesn't even look similar either.

Also note that the First One's relic has an Infinite Symbol on it, but just flipped. Kinda gives off more of a clue, tbh.

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I mean the Login/Music has to come SOON. They're running out of time to avoid just running out the BFA login again.

It's gonna come next build. The loading screen and credits update should be a hint, I would think. Means they're working on the login stuff rn.