Russian Opposition Leader Alexei Navalny Poisoned

[postman1782]

Please show us on this doll where an evil Brexit touched you... I already stated several times that I make no such connection. It was never my intention to make such connection, there is no possible connection as far as I am concerned, considering these events are several years apart. Is that clear? Or do you still think that I think these events are connected? How many times do I need to repeat that?

Still think you are winning the conversation?

[Gaaz]

This is the only reply you get because you aren't worth the time but because I want to illustrate the actual point of these poisonings. Putin doesn't care whether they are lethal or not, they don't have to be lethal to make the point, he's saying he doesn't tolerate pretenders to the crown or challenges to his authority and in that goal it doesn't matter whether the target dies or not, only that he could reach them.

Likewise. I do not consider it to be worth my time disputing with someone who is absolutely set in his opinion and measures others by his own standard only. Not that I consider Putin to be all white and puffy, but I do not think he is an idiot either. If he would have wanted to send a message, there are a myriad other ways other than using a prohibited top secret (supposedly) substance with some unique characteristics (again, supposedly) that point directly at a specific weapons plant (that can not be named due to secrecy) and failing at it twice. Good day to you as well.

[Pann]

Please show us on this doll where an evil Brexit touched you... I already stated several times that I make no such connection. It was never my intention to make such connection, there is no possible connection as far as I am concerned, considering these events are several years apart. Is that clear? Or do you still think that I think these events are connected? How many times do I need to repeat that?

Hang on. Is that the evil Brexit or evil Skripal? I get so confused.

You very clearly made a connection between Brexit and Navalny poisoning, you even mentioned a 49-51% split despite this split being wrong how on earth can you link it to the Skirpals?

To be quite honest it's getting embarrassing watching you trying to lie your way of it. Rather than defending Russia - which I guess is your aim - you are simply undermining your own credibility.

[Gaaz]

Still think you are winning the conversation?

You still think that I make such connection?

[Pann]

You still think that I make such connection?

Er? Yes. How is that even a question? Your post where you made the connection is still there for everyone to see.

You're not a big Shaggy fan, are you?

[Gaaz]

Hang on. Is that the evil Brexit or evil Skripal? I get so confused.

You very clearly made a connection between Brexit and Navalny poisoning, you even mentioned a 49-51% split despite this split being wrong how on earth can you link it to the Skirpals?

To be quite honest it's getting embarrassing watching you trying to lie your way of it. Rather than defending Russia - which I guess is your aim - you are simply undermining your own credibility.

Ok. whatever the split was (googled it, 51.9 to 48.1). It was never my intention, just like I said a hundred times already to link Brexit and Navalny. I used Brexit as an example of a possible scapegoat tactics, the one that can be used to divert attention from internal problems in a country. Could I have been clearer? Yes. Was my intention to make that connection - no. Does that clarify? And to be perfectly clear, I do make a connection between Brexit and Scripal cases. Scripal case was a very welcome diversion of attention from failed EU-UK negotiations at the time. Am I saying that UK did it - no. Am I saying that Russia did it - no. I have not seen the evidence. You have not seen the evidence. No one has seen the evidence aside from Teresa May and BoJo as far as I know. Therefore, my stance, to avoid any confusion, no one is above suspicion, including UK's own government.

- - - Updated - - -

Er? Yes. How is that even a question? Your post where you made the connection is still there for everyone to see.

You're not a big Shaggy fan, are you?

How long are you going to derail the thread? I already said that there is no connection. Do you want me to edit the post to make it clearer? I continue saying that I do not consider these things related. Yet you two a bent on stating that I actually do. No - I do not. I think I made that clear several times already. Ok. I will edit said post to clarify things if people are having trouble understanding exactly what I meant.
Edit - the following line has been added:
(EDIT + CLARIFICATION - this is in no way connected to Navalny. This is a reference to EU-UK negotiations fail and a convenient Scripal poisoning during spring 2018, which does provide a hypothetical motive)

[Pann]

Ok. whatever the split was (googled it, 51.9 to 48.1). It was never my intention, just like I said a hundred times already to link Brexit and Navalny. I used Brexit as an example of a possible scapegoat tactics, the one that can be used to divert attention from internal problems in a country. Could I have been clearer? Yes. Was my intention to make that connection - no. Does that clarify? And to be perfectly clear, I do make a connection between Brexit and Scripal cases. Scripal case was a very welcome diversion of attention from failed EU-UK negotiations at the time. Am I saying that UK did it - no. Am I saying that Russia did it - no. I have not seen the evidence. You have not seen the evidence. No one has seen the evidence aside from Teresa May and BoJo as far as I know. Therefore, my stance, to avoid any confusion, no one is above suspicion, including UK's own government.

If you didn't intend to draw a connection from the Navalny poisoning to Brexit, why mention Brexit at all? Why mention borders? Why mention the split in the vote? For apparently trying to connect Skripal poisoning to the Navalny poisoning you've sure mentioned a lot about Brexit and nothing about the Skripals.

Do you mean you could have been clearer by not mentioning border control, a vote split and the word Brexit?

How did Skripal poisoning distract from Brexit or the EU-UK negotiations? I can tell you now that it didn't. And I can tell you that Navalny is, at best, a minor story that is dwarfed by Brexit and COVID in the UK.

Of course you aren't saying any of the things you're saying?! Really do you believe that people are that stupid that they cannot read what you've written and see that as soon as you are challenged for writing absolute nonsense you lie about what you've written?

Do you honestly believe that you have made Russia look better by your disingenuous posts?

- - - Updated - - -

How long are you going to derail the thread? I already said that there is no connection. Do you want me to edit the post to make it clearer? I continue saying that I do not consider these things related. Yet you two a bent on stating that I actually do. No - I do not. I think I made that clear several times already. Ok. I will edit said post to clarify things if people are having trouble understanding exactly what I meant.
Edit - the following line has been added:
(EDIT + CLARIFICATION - this is in no way connected to Navalny. This is a reference to EU-UK negotiations fail and a convenient Scripal poisoning during spring 2018, which does provide a hypothetical motive)

Yeah, good one!

You said there was no connection after saying there was a connection and people pointing out the absurdity of your original claim. You can edit your post if you wish, really I don't care, it's all there - in quotes - for anyone who is interested to see and they will be able make up their own minds.

Anyways I am glad that you retract your ludicrous claim Brexit, and the UK, was related to the poisoning of an enemy of the Russian state with a Russian nerve agent.

[Gaaz]

If you didn't intend to draw a connection from the Navalny poisoning to Brexit, why mention Brexit at all? Why mention borders? Why mention the split in the vote? For apparently trying to connect Skripal poisoning to the Navalny poisoning you've sure mentioned a lot about Brexit and nothing about the Skripals.

Do you mean you could have been clearer by not mentioning border control, a vote split and the word Brexit?

How did Skripal poisoning distract from Brexit or the EU-UK negotiations? I can tell you now that it didn't. And I can tell you that Navalny is, at best, a minor story that is dwarfed by Brexit and COVID in the UK.

Of course you aren't saying any of the things you're saying?! Really do you believe that people are that stupid that they cannot read what you've written and see that as soon as you are challenged for writing absolute nonsense you lie about what you've written?

Do you honestly believe that you have made Russia look better by your disingenuous posts?

No, and it was never my intention to make Russia look better. If you do not see how an international scandal can distract from failed, at least for a time, EU-UK negotiations and in between 2 no confidence votes for Theresa May, then you probably do not see any connection in things like Nixon's peace talks sabotage and presidential elections in 1968, that was also described as a treason by President Lyndon Johnson. Only he did not have proof at the time. We do now. Am I saying that Scripal case and Brexit can be connected on the level of one politician trying to hold on to power? Of course, yes. Am I saying or accusing anyone directly - no. Theresa May might just have been an unwilling dupe for someone else. Do you know what actually happened? No, you do not. Me neither. No one does. And the story died along with disappearance of Scripals, who for some reason were not permitted to contact anyone, including any investigative authorities from the OPCW and vanished practically without a trace (minus a very questionable letter).

[Edge-]

A lab in Sweden and a lab in France confirmed that Nawalny has been poisoned with Nowichok.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/0...ecovery-414477

Sauce on the reporting, seems like Navalny is starting to get up and about.

The German government said tests by labs in France and Sweden backed up findings by a German military lab that Navalny was poisoned with Novichok, the same class of Soviet-era agent that Britain said was used on former Russian spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter in Salisbury, England, in 2018.

The Hague-based Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons also is taking steps to have samples from Navalny tested at its designated labs, German government spokesman Steffen Seibert said.

He said Germany had asked France and Sweden for an independent examination of the findings. German officials said labs in both countries, as well as the OPCW, took new samples from Navalny.

So two countries labs independently verified the German results, OPCW is verifying now, and Russia is, predictably, still saying this is all some massive western conspiracy against Russia to...uh...I forgot what the official line is on why the whole US hates Russia, according to the Kremlin.

[Easo]

I mean, I would love to have Germany give the results directly to Russia to shut them up, but... It is not like it would change the official position of Russia.

[jonnysensible]

all the dippers in here spinning what if what if what if conspiracies. look dippers in reality its usually just the most likely thing/reasons for thinks like this happening are going to be the truth.

Nalvany was disliked had a target on him, some apparatus in the russian state nuked him with this poison shit theyve been throwing around and thats it, its that simple.

[Kotuthan]

I mean, I would love to have Germany give the results directly to Russia to shut them up, but... It is not like it would change the official position of Russia.

It would change nothing if they did. Russians nationalists,Trolls, and the Governemnt would just dig deeper into Conspiracytard land. They do that everytime something comes up showing them in a bad light. Examples being the Green Men or Malaysia Airlines Flight 17.

[Easo]

So since Navalny is up, here is a photo of him - https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-54163389

Dude clearly does not look exactly well - thin, weak, with sunken eyes. Something DID happen to him and I am Barrack Obama if that was alcohol or whatever lies/excuses some people are peddling.

It would change nothing if they did. Russians nationalists,Trolls, and the Governemnt would just dig deeper into Conspiracytard land. They do that everytime something comes up showing them in a bad light. Examples being the Green Men or Malaysia Airlines Flight 17.

I know I know, but just for the sake of argument.

[Wilfire]

Navalny is joke puppet opposition completely under Putin's control. Putin wouldn't murder Navalny while he is distracting the electorate and completely blocking true opposition from gathering support.

[Easo]

Navalny said he plans to return to Russia. His team also has supposedly found out that he was poisoned not with the tea at airport, but with water bottles at his hotel (the bottles themselves, not the water in them).

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-54189573

[Shalcker]

It is frankly ridiculous that even today, 17 days from initial announcement, nothing was actually given to Russia; neither from OPCW nor from Germany. Even "confirmatory" lab results had to be requested by Russia separately from each lab rather then given to OPCW (and so far there are no reports that they were provided).

According to Navalny's press-secretary, the only "positive" result was from one of three plastic bottles taken from Navalny's hotel room, and nowhere else.

[postman1782]

It is frankly ridiculous that even today, 17 days from initial announcement, nothing was actually given to Russia; neither from OPCW nor from Germany. Even "confirmatory" lab results had to be requested by Russia separately from each lab rather then given to OPCW (and so far there are no reports that they were provided).

According to Navalny's press-secretary, the only "positive" result was from one of three plastic bottles taken from Navalny's hotel room, and nowhere else.

Why should they give anything to a country that pays people, including apparently people on this forum, to obfuscate and lie? They are professional liars, and apparently taught Trump everything they know.

[Shalcker]

Why should they give anything to a country that pays people, including apparently people on this forum, to obfuscate and lie? They are professional liars, and apparently taught Trump everything they know.

Because there are absolutely no benefit in withholding information for more then two weeks that has to be given to Russia anyway. What is the point?

[Shalcker]

Wow. The only ridiculous part here is, that even after 3 independent lab tests you are still whining that nothing has been given to you.

We still have no idea what exactly was found, and what should we test for.

It is also ridiculous that those "confirmatory" tests were made in secret, and their results not shared with OPCW secretariat.

I'm pretty sure your doctors took blood samples. I'm pretty sure your labs know exactly what to look for. Yet you keep on insisting that we reveal how we are able to detect your poison.

Why are you sure? Do you think every Russian doctor is aware of every poison, Russian or not, or can get that information on moment's notice? That every Russian lab has capabilities of German or OPCW military labs?

After all, even German military didn't find it everywhere on Navalny's things.

And neither did hospital identify specific poison. We still don't know based on which symptoms/measurements did they make their initial conclusions that differed from Russian doctors.

Explain it to us, what difference does it make to your nonexistent criminal investigation?

It'll make harder for them to delay opening it, duh.

Why would you make it easier for them to deny and deflect?

[Santti]

How many times do you need to be told that Novichok was found? By 3 different labs. That's all that matters. Your people have the same fucking blood samples, but for some reason are not able to detect a poison that was developed in Russia? Get out.

Yeah... If only Russia would conduct themselves better, their word might actually mean something.