The trend of elitism, meta and minmaxing.. I just want to have fun

[WaltherLeopold]

Well, there's slacking and then there's not doing 100% of everything you can possibly do. For example, we do a DM tribute run before raids so people can easily get those buffs and head and heart. Do they NEED the song flower buff? No.

"For example, why wouldn't you use consumables, if you know they add a huge % increase on your performance?"

well, Flask of Supreme Power (what I use as a mage) is 150g on my server. THat's a fair amount of gold, esp if you take 2 nights to do AQ and need to flask both nights. But you can get elixirs that are good and cheaper - so I do that. (well actually I leveled herbing and get flasks made from my mats, but....)

If you take 2 nights to clear AQ but you're still flasking, you are already capable of joining a MUCH better guild than the one you're currently in.

And if you don't, then you are making a conscious choice in being in a guild that takes 2 nights to clear AQ.

I don't really care much at all about min-maxing, the "holy" meta and reducing a game that's meant to be fun to numbers.

I see a lot of "extreme" (from my PoV) min-maxing and general elitism going on around like "this and that will never be taken into raids/dungeons" and "You have to be fully buffed with flasks, potions, world buffs etc etc for every single raid all the time" etc.

I mean from my understanding none of this is actually necessary unless you're raiding like super hardcore to clear bosses in 20sec and I just don't really care to play like this and with people with this attitude. It is just so incredibly tedious and tiresome to me.

Why is it that you don't want to perform well in benefit to you, your guild, your fellow raiders etc?

And why play a game you don't enjoy playing, getting gold, consumables are integral parts of WoW and always has been.

[munkeyinorbit]

So it is just a lost cause is what you're saying? There's really no players in this game who don't take it overly serious like a goddamn math test?



hmm I suppose that makes sense. I was kinda looking forward to a more social experience rather than just queuing up, do the dungeon, leave, repeat without ever talking to anyone. On smaller servers that seems it could be more difficult. Then again I don't really know what a "small" server is to you.

Unless you stumble into a guild you will have no hope. No one runs dungeons anymore. Prepare to wait 4 hours to fill your group. People don't do dungeons for fun so you had better pray there are people doing alts while you level.

Be a warrior. Warriors can tank anything while also speccing mostly dps and are sought after by guilds. This makes the previous paragraph less of an issue.

Login at the appointed buff time in your capital. You don't need all the WB or the pots or anything like that but the dragon head is pretty easy to get.

You will never avoid the tryhards but what is more important is turning up all the time. If you get into some third rate guild make sure you actually turnup. This third rate guild will prob still have all of the raids on farm. Turn up for a month and then start getting loot.

[Washed]

Arrogance is being pretty misleading, completely and totally blowing all this out of proportion. Precisely the type of laughable wannabe "elitist" video game playing drama queen you're looking to avoid.

Yes there are guilds out there with a more casual or laid-back approach to the game, guilds where it's OK if you don't run down every conceivable buff available before a raid. Are those guilds going to be knocking out raids in record time, scooping up phat lewtz for all with no effort? No. Not at all. They'll also have some noticeable turnover, as players who do put in more effort than others will inevitably /gquit for a more try-hardy guild at some point. It's not an ideal arrangement, but yes you can find a group of people such as yourself, who want to just kind of "take it easy" as you (hopefully) experience the content.

But, as others have said - don't think you're gonna ding 60 and then turn right around and expect to be carried through raids. Not saying it cannot happen (maybe you leveled a healer in a guild that desperately needs a healer, who knows, etc), but do not expect that. Matter of fact, just flat out don't even hope to be that dead weight guy. Outside of that, yeah you'll be fine. Make a toon, get to leveling, enjoy the experience.

[Crutos]

Unless you stumble into a guild you will have no hope. No one runs dungeons anymore. Prepare to wait 4 hours to fill your group. People don't do dungeons for fun so you had better pray there are people doing alts while you level.

well that's.. extremely discouraging. Really? Nobody is doing this anymore?

- - - Updated - - -

Arrogance is being pretty misleading, completely and totally blowing all this out of proportion. Precisely the type of laughable wannabe "elitist" video game playing drama queen you're looking to avoid.

yeah that's exactly my impression of him right now.

Are those guilds going to be knocking out raids in record time, scooping up phat lewtz for all with no effort? No. Not at all.

well that's not a bad thing from my PoV. I would rather play the content a bit more challenging than completely trivialized by everyone being buffed to unreasonable levels.

But, as others have said - don't think you're gonna ding 60 and then turn right around and expect to be carried through raids.(...) don't even hope to be that dead weight guy. Outside of that, yeah you'll be fine (...).

I didn't mean it like I wanted to get carried or be dead weight. Of course doing my part and getting geared for the raids first and what not. Just taking it easy not being too serious about spending tons of gold a week on flasks and do other very tedious and tiresom stuff all the time to be at absolute max performance etc.

[MoanaLisa]

There's nothing wrong with just having fun and ignoring the min/max stuff. I do it myself. The only thing to be aware of is that it may limit your access to high-level content being done by pickup groups. It all depends on your game goals and the strength of your social networking within the game either through friends or guilds.

[xGLxAnubis]

You're coming in 16 years into a game, and you want a non-min/max group? After this long, that's all that's left to do with this game: Optimize. You're not going to experience the content the way it was, because it *isn't* the way it was. And groups care about how their members perform; no one cares what spec you are or what consumables and buffs you have, but if your DPS is low, that's not acceptable. If you can't hold threat or keep someone alive, that's not OK. So sure you can play a meme Spec, as long as you're able to keep up with all the other DPS (You won't).

You're basically asking for someone to give you a job and give you the same benefits as all the other employee's, but not be expected to perform at the same level as everyone else. Good luck.

[clevin]

If you take 2 nights to clear AQ but you're still flasking, you are already capable of joining a MUCH better guild than the one you're currently in.

And if you don't, then you are making a conscious choice in being in a guild that takes 2 nights to clear AQ.

Sigh. We clear in one night. You need to go look up the word "example". IN any case, there's nothing wrong with taking 2 nights on AQ40 if you're having fun as a raid. What, you think it's a big deal to clear a 15 year old raid fast?

Why is it that you don't want to perform well in benefit to you, your guild, your fellow raiders etc?

And why play a game you don't enjoy playing, getting gold, consumables are integral parts of WoW and always has been.

You're kind of the definition of 'try hard' here.

[WaltherLeopold]

Sigh. We clear in one night. You need to go look up the word "example".



You're kind of the definition of 'try hard' here.

I was following your example and showing how, if you are in the circumstance you laid out, then you're there willingly, and intentionally.

[msdos]

This notion of "carried through raids" is just 100% utterly laughable. You'd have to be completely afk /follow on someone to be carried in Classic raids, that's how easy they are. As long as you have the boss targeted and stuff is farting out at it, the boss is going to die.

80% of the stuff you're reading as responses from people is over fluff projection so they can feel justified about playing a game that has zero challenge, all the challenge is socially imposed, like, "bring this amount of potions, this amount of elixirs, have these buffs, do this, meet here by this time or else!!!" or "man how do i find an actual guild that fits me", because finding a guild isn't as easy as 1 2 3. A lot of them have like 3 week long trial periods? I had like a month long trial period in the last guild I left and that was just to be able to receive full DKP, i was still thousands of DKP behind the entire guild.
Then like 3 weeks later the Shaman officer started talking about totem twisting and practicing it after I had asked if it was going to be required the moment I joined the guild, because it is a deal breaker for me. So I just left. The guild was getting ready to impose totem twisting for no other reason than kill stuff faster, they're basically asking 1 class out of the entire guild to have less fun just so melee can parse higher... Lol no. Not how video games work my friend. You don't do unnecessary things in video games when you could just do something else.

[Firebert]

You're basically asking for someone to give you a job and give you the same benefits as all the other employee's, but not be expected to perform at the same level as everyone else. Good luck.

If you truly believe that this is an accurate analogy, you're basically proving his point for him.

[msdos]

If you do 100 dps less than the person in the 10th spot, but still come consumed and buffed, I guess you're being carried according to the logic in this thread? There is no logic, it's all fluff and smoke blowing, chest beating like Gorillas.

[arandomuser]

i had a 11/12Mythic guild that let their 2 mages play frost

[Tronski]

I don't mind other people try-harding if they are just try-harding for themselves because that's what they find fun. The problem is when it is projected on to me as well.

How exactly does taking a game less seriously make me a boomer? You must be trolling.

He most likely is. The only way to get to enjoy Classic on these terms is to find the guild you are looking for before you pick a server. You want to find a guild that allows retri paladins, boomkins and the likes into their raiding ranks, and yes, they exist. I am currently in one of those, and we are allowed to raid as whatever we want as long as we don't hold the raid back. That said, being allowed to play meme specs doesn't mean anyone find it fun to have Donald boomkin doing 1/10 of the average DPS either, least of all those carrying him, so take that into consideration as well.

The real issue is that it's nearing too late to get into Classic, Naxxramas will probably be upon us before Christmas, if not right after, and then the game would officially be "over" within 3-4 months, and you'd probably find yourself looking towards level 70. Getting into Classic now means a lot of work to catch up, even if you find a nice guild.

[zaxlor]

Let me guess, OP wants to play a Ret Paladin and expects to just spam auto-attack while the raid showers epics at him?

Yeh, that can work, but only if you choose to run the raids. There's nothing stopping you from pugging, or guild leading, or anything in either Retail or Classic provided you've set out your intentions before the run. You wanna bring meme specs? Fine! You don't want people to bring world buffs! Sure! But as much as you don't want to put the effort in, some people enjoy doing that. And others don't enjoy putting the effort in, just so the raid-logging Ret can get to roll on an Epic 2-hander, play a single game of AB, cry he can't 1-shot people while bubble is up and then quit the game.

It's a team effort. Raiding. Dungeons. PvP. If you're purely looking at WoW through the eyes of "What can I get out of this?" then you're going to always be let down. Either choose to lead the content the way you want it to be ran, or follow others as they want it be done. It's that simple.

[msdos]

Just wait for everything to be on farm and the game to be dead, people will be singing a different tune and you won't be able to find tanks anymore because they all quit of deep boredom. Then you can join guilds as a half baked Ret, no one will care anymore.

Everything is so transient now, entire thread it's self is near pointless, just saying.

[Tronski]

You're coming in 16 years into a game, and you want a non-min/max group? After this long, that's all that's left to do with this game: Optimize. You're not going to experience the content the way it was, because it *isn't* the way it was. And groups care about how their members perform; no one cares what spec you are or what consumables and buffs you have, but if your DPS is low, that's not acceptable. If you can't hold threat or keep someone alive, that's not OK. So sure you can play a meme Spec, as long as you're able to keep up with all the other DPS (You won't).

You're basically asking for someone to give you a job and give you the same benefits as all the other employee's, but not be expected to perform at the same level as everyone else. Good luck.

What most shitters out there fail to understand is that plenty of the classes offer utility for the raid, which either buff other classes DPS or HPS, or reduce incoming damage, so that Warriors and Rogues are free to go ham. You're not supposed to compare DPS across classes, because it isn't retail.

Demanding min/maxing in Classic is a joke in and of itself. Only yesterday I joined a semi-pug to AQ40 on my undergeared alt, with a (RP)guild that went on an expedition to AQ40 for their first time. Whole raid (minus Visc) was done in 3 hours, few world buffs, some potions, simple tactics, C'thun was done in 2 tries (They learned the tactics on the first try). There were ret-palas, music, everyone was fucking around the whole time, and it was loads of fun.

I pity you for not being able to enjoy a game unless the numbers you put out impress someone you don't even care about.

[msdos]

What most shitters out there fail to understand is that plenty of the classes offer utility for the raid, which either buff other classes DPS or HPS, or reduce incoming damage, so that Warriors and Rogues are free to go ham.

Demanding min/maxing in Classic is a joke in and of itself. Only yesterday I joined a semi-pug to AQ40 on my undergeared alt, with a (RP)guild that went on an expedition to AQ40 for their first time. Whole raid (minus Visc) was done in 3 hours, few world buffs, some potions, simple tactics, C'thun was done in 2 tries (They learned the tactics on the first try). There were ret-palas, music, everyone was fucking around the whole time, and it was loads of fun.

I pity you for not being able to enjoy a game unless the numbers you put out impress someone you don't even care about.

Sounds like how people used to play in vanilla. In Wrath we did Ulduar without looking at other strategies, we would just run in and do attempts live, those were the golden years.. You literally won't get that back.

[Heathy]

i've had fun this last year, my guild started off casual but we were one of the first, if not the first horde guild on our server to clear MC which put us in a specific league I suppose, generally its casual but realistically everyone is expected to do everything they can, I don't find it that difficult to get world buffs, but I think I enjoy tanking less and less the more I do it. I'm looking forward to wipe festing in naxx but i'm really looking forward to tanking being normalised in BC I have enjoyed fury prot for the sake of min/max, but I dislike the unintuitive clunky nature of it. I just really can't wait for there to be some level of consistency. in gearing and in threat gen. ill have to savour the enjoyment of doing 40's and will miss them when they become 25s. again. I don't mind the min/max the only problem with classic is that there is a lot of gear that drops that is shit and a few bits of gear that hardly ever drop but is amazing. this creates some polarity where you're always chasing these few drops, but you have maybe 20+ ppl who want the items. so the majority of the time is spend just farming for these items. thats pretty much just it. its all just farming for 1-2 items, while a large bulk of the gear is just trash enchanting fodder gear that no one wants to bid dkp or ep/gp on. everyone knows what the best is. with the class stacking, hell its strange for me because I generally don't care much about the loot i'm happy to be the guy that gets everything last, but the loot is part of the min/max grind. funnily enough it has been interesting gearing as fury prot when most raids run over 15 warriors. this is when the min/max becomes a problem when you reach that cross over point the items you need to perform better vs the amount of times they drop and the amount of ppl who want that item. some ppl just won't get BiS and will always be stuck under performing those who did. for me its been weapons mostly, I took a binding and felt compelled to pass on all weapons, which made threat generation interesting for me as ppl gear got better my tps stayed roughly the same for a long time. its only recently started getting better since I nabbed a pugio but it still has been a bit shit this clash between old school game and retail min/max nuke mentality. the content isn't difficult enough for it to be a serious bottleneck you really don't need everyone to be full bis to move forward but there is always that expectation. but as everyone said many times when discussing classic, its just time consuming, farming bis is time consuming. getting saved week after week for over a year hoping you'll get enough of X item so everyone can get one. a lot of the time it just doesn't matter, if you're part of a guild consistently clearing the content it doesn't matter how min/maxxed you are on a per raid basis, obviously those who aren't full BiS yet will be carried there by those who get the gear first. but largely your guild just has to make do with whatever you can do until you can do better.

[IKT]

I definitely don't think you're alone, I'm looking for something similar.

[Bigcountry11782]

So I am making this post because I am interested in getting into classic wow, since I started wow in wrath and I am kinda interested in experiencing the game pre-wrath. However the more I look into Classic wow the more discouraged I get.
I am one of those people who "play for fun", yeah *gasp* he said the no-no word.. I don't really care much at all about min-maxing, the "holy" meta and reducing a game that's meant to be fun to numbers. "Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game."
I see a lot of "extreme" (from my PoV) min-maxing and general elitism going on around like "this and that will never be taken into raids/dungeons" and "You have to be fully buffed with flasks, potions, world buffs etc etc for every single raid all the time" etc.
I mean from my understanding none of this is actually necessary unless you're raiding like super hardcore to clear bosses in 20sec and I just don't really care to play like this and with people with this attitude. It is just so incredibly tedious and tiresome to me.
So I guess what I am asking is; are there guilds and groups who play more casually and are more lenient in their approach to raids, "the meta", classes and how they do content? My impression is that everybody now plays with this mindset due to youtube content made primarily by private server elitists who gave the average player the impression that this how they have to play. I don't really care to spend a whole lot of time, money and effort on the game if it is going to be this way for the rest of classic and through TBC.

Its the Nature of the beast.Sure you don't have to have all the buffs,but it does make it easier.Flasks and potions are only really necessary when a raid first comes out.Like AQ 40 for instance.Some of the fights require Nature resist,Arcane,and shadow potions.Look at MC or BWL you don't need to be fully buffed up to clear it as it is very easy with all the gear people have now.The thing about buffs in classic is that it allows you to clear it quickly because people just want to move on and get it over with,since it may be the 100th time they have been in there and just want it downed quick.

What i think you don't seem to understand is that This is how it was Back in Vanilla and on into TBC Raiding wasn't something everyone did or could do.Its not this way because of youtubers lol Look at what making the game more accessible to people has done over the years,it has lost most of its player base.

To answer your question of are there guilds that are more casual? If you are asking if there is a casual raiding guild that gets anything done with out buffs and being prepared,maybe?Besides buffs Food,flask,and potions are still expected by basically every raiding guild even today. IN my opinion i can't stand buffs though they are manageable.

I can get all the buffs i need on my hunter in less than an hour.ZG,Ony,Rend,DMT,and songflower.My damage may never be as good in classic as say a warrior or a rogues but i get them to help my fellow raiders and do the best i can.I get my flask for progression fights if there are any and i have my food and potions for mana and what not ready every raid.Not because i am elitist but because i like to not be out of mana 30 seconds in to a fight.

The thing about early on in the game for many years was that for say mana users mana was not some infinite thing you could just spam like it is today.As a hunter in classic if i don't get mana pots,Demonic runes,oils,and a flask for 2k extra mana i am gonna be worthless most of the fight.As i not only have to dps i have tranq shot some bosses and burst down targets on others.Healers have to have the mana to heal people.IF they go in to a raid with nothing in AQ at the moment and just say fuck it half the raid may die or wipe because the tanks died to no heals.If you only care about what you want and what is not best for the group then Classic isn't for you neither will TBC.

What i don't get is when you call us elitists for playing the game a certain way simply because you play it a different way or want to play it a different way.If you want to play it with minimal effort go for it.The guild i am in we consider ourselves casual but we still play to win but we don't min max everything.Sure some people do but some don't and we get along just fine.Best of luck to you though.