Are people really okay with trivial outdoors?

[Amariw]

I'll add to those who mentioned 8.3 zones are harder. Its true, but leveling is also borderline godmode. On leveling monk i ussualy can't get full fists of fury off. They die in rising sun kick and half the channel. Thats too quick to even enjoy the class. A lot of classes have decent rotation that I'd enjoy a lot more if i could actually experience it without the mob dying a third of the way through.

[MrLachyG]

They... really are trivial with the exception of very, very few rare spawns.

Well now we’re geared yeah obviously they’re trivial. Start of 8.3 not as much. Plus if you compare to 8.0 zones even the “hard” rares are soloable easily while the 8.3 hard rares have 5-6 times the HP

[Amariw]

I like the game, but I also like seeing actual power growth. 8.1 was pain when you fell off the Legiondary cliff at 116.

I can understand this, but i admit, if i had to pick, i rather be kept a bit weaker outdoors so combat stays engaging. Gear can help me in raids and m+ where the challenge is real and failure can happen cuzz mechanics are plentiful. In outdoors, where its at my own pace anyway, i want some modicum of challenge to remain. Just my preference though, i know not all agree.

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Yup totally fine. Working as intended

You owe me nothing but if you'd deign to, I'd be happy to hear why you prefer it this way. Several have and some of it feels cool to hear, even if i still feel different.

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It was.

I was new during WOTLK. I was a clicker, I had zero coordination or ideas about optimization, I dressed in white gear with intellect because I figured "it was good to be smart and the white clothing means I'm a good guy!"... I died to falling off cliffs, other players and fatigue, mostly. I did encounter the odd group quest and thought they were the pinnacle of difficulty.

It was a cake walk on my second toon, also leveled during that expansion. Had zero issues with mobs as well as group quests.

The one mob I recall posing a challenge at endgame out in the world, was that ice dragon that was part of the Argent Dawn dailies... But the moment I was fully geared in ICC stuff, it too became trivial.

In fact, I remember relishing in how overpowered I felt against world mobs in that expansion once I got raid geared. From Legion onward, I've sort of felt that my power growth doesn't succeed that of world mobs fast enough at times...

I didnt remember it being a significant challenge, i wouldn't want that for every mob in wow, this isn't dark souls. But i do rmember it not being a complete faceroll. Ye, you'd still beat every mob, including the tournament dragon (esp as lock, voidwalker aggro and health funnel with dots work wonders). But overpulling was a risk. Single mobs took a bit more then two seconds. You needed to play your class.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Gw2 style of scaling you down to maps instead of the other way, multiple world bosses that can’t be soloed, and organized meta events making all maps viable would be preferable to logging in and doing four wq for rep

As someone just coming off a GW2 binge, I would hate to see WoW adopt the same system for world content. Love the game, but it is extremely tedius and waiting a combined total of 3+ hours for people to show and be able to handle world content, is a drag.

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I didnt remember it being a significant challenge, i wouldn't want that for every mob in wow, this isn't dark souls. But i do rmember it not being a complete faceroll. Ye, you'd still beat every mob, including the tournament dragon (esp as lock, voidwalker aggro and health funnel with dots work wonders). But overpulling was a risk. Single mobs took a bit more then two seconds. You needed to play your class.

Haven't seen that one in a while, but it's a myth.

Leveling content never primed players for optimized gameplay, and never will. Case in point: Myself. Not until I entered the raiding scene did I realize that I had use of more abilities than I had been using whilst leveling, and that there was such a thing as CC and DPS...

If the world content was built so that one "had to play your class", I sure as hell never felt the effects of it. Even Vanilla still saw players arrive to 60 having trouble wrapping their heads around 2-button rotations and optimizing the character. Then look at Classic...

I remember it being a complete faceroll* in WOTLK, even as an entirely new player doing everything wrong. Granted, I soon became a very apt player of the game, but not in any shape or form thanks to the leveling experience.



*Well, the first time I thought I had conquered the toughest the game had to offer by reaching 80, the realization came with my second toon, to clarify... <.<

[Donald Hellscream]

I never got the fascination of having world content be a gruelling slog.

[Accendor]

Well now we’re geared yeah obviously they’re trivial. Start of 8.3 not as much. Plus if you compare to 8.0 zones even the “hard” rares are soloable easily while the 8.3 hard rares have 5-6 times the HP

I am sorry, but they were also trivial when 8.3 came up. I really do not want this to sound condescending or anything, but the zones never provided any challenge whatsoever.

[Gamingsince1981]

I would be happy with even the raids being trivial, I dont play games to challenge myself.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Well now we’re geared yeah obviously they’re trivial. Start of 8.3 not as much. Plus if you compare to 8.0 zones even the “hard” rares are soloable easily while the 8.3 hard rares have 5-6 times the HP

Yep, regardless of what he says, there's 100% areas and mobs that are not easy pushovers still in 8.3 zones. Same thing in Argus when it came out, althouuuugh... I don't remember any of the rares in the Argus areas remaining something you'd rather do as a group once reaching full Mythic gear... But I mostly did Argus with alts, same as 8.3, and it was NOT trivial for those characters being at ilvls more akin to what the majority obtains.

My main always went into those new areas decked in the best possible gear, so obviously I won't judge the zones based on that alone.

[MrLachyG]

I am sorry, but they were also trivial when 8.3 came up. I really do not want this to sound condescending or anything, but the zones never provided any challenge whatsoever.

again, for those who are geared - absolutely they are trivial. for someone who just hit 120; no, no they were not

[Sansnom]

I'm not talking about timeless isle level of mechanic for every mob (though that'd be cool). Im talking about how when i go around doing worldquests, even with catchup gear, mobs just fall over and die in seconds. Forget low risk of dying, I'm never in much risk of even loosing much hp.

Those zones were designed for levelling gear and you are in catchup gear, so of course they will die in seconds.

I wonder how you would feel if things were much dangerous. People would probably stop going to the world doing the WQ because the rewards would not justify it except for the dedicated.

It may sound like a good idea at the start but at the 50th time or more, it would become a chore.

[BeepBoo]

Yes I am fine with that. When geared and basically the max level mighty hero. I expect to walk around freaking destroying general crap in the world.

Is that still fun, though? If they insist on making me have to do crap out in the world to be competitive and waste my time on chores, at least make them fun, challenging, and engaging.

[Unlimited Power]

At 8.0, the Zandalar and Kul'tiras regular rares could be soloed but the elite rares would often require a group. Some 8.2 elite rares are still difficult without at least 1 other person present. 8.3 elite rares for the most part always require a group, with their 10-13 mil health and relatively high damage. That seems like progression working as intended?

[Baneto]

I'm not talking about timeless isle level of mechanic for every mob (though that'd be cool). Im talking about how when i go around doing worldquests, even with catchup gear, mobs just fall over and die in seconds. Forget low risk of dying, I'm never in much risk of even loosing much hp.

It was much more nuanced around wotlk-wod. Classes were powerful, and didn't have large downtime unlike classic. You'd still win dailies without much difficulty, but mobs could still put up some fight, especially if you pulled several. You actually had to be awake and click the proper buttons.
Isn't that what gaming is about? Do people prefer it this way? Isn't combat in this game part of the fun? I'm genuinely curious, feel free to respond even if you're in favor of this godmode, blizz is seemingly on your side. just please help me understand why.

I play the game for fun, not to waste my time because someone thought WQ-mobs should have raid-mechanics.

[Easyclassictopkeklel]

Wanna risk death while doing worldquests? Activate warmode.
No seriously, at one point in BFA I just did not give af anymore and just did a few wqs while mainly doing open pvp and tbh it was the most fun I had in the whole addon. And I am not even a pvp person. Grab some friends and its really fun. Not effective. But fun.

[Sinaa]

Scaling is bad enough as it is, why bother with gearing if ..

[Arainie]

When the right answer is always "pull everything on your screen" I think it's fair to say that the acceptable threshold has not just been passed, it's been obliterated. It's fine if you outgear some content completely (eg previous patch content), but some zones should still be challenging enough that you at least have to think about what you're doing (current patch content).

This would all be solved by reducing the power creep, by the way. Cut it in half (and make necessary changes to mob/pvp scaling to offset that ofcourse, inb4 someone tries to be smart about it) and we'll have a better game in every single aspect. In my opinion, that is...

[WowIsDead64]

I'm not talking about timeless isle level of mechanic for every mob (though that'd be cool). Im talking about how when i go around doing worldquests, even with catchup gear, mobs just fall over and die in seconds. Forget low risk of dying, I'm never in much risk of even loosing much hp.

It was much more nuanced around wotlk-wod. Classes were powerful, and didn't have large downtime unlike classic. You'd still win dailies without much difficulty, but mobs could still put up some fight, especially if you pulled several. You actually had to be awake and click the proper buttons.
Isn't that what gaming is about? Do people prefer it this way? Isn't combat in this game part of the fun? I'm genuinely curious, feel free to respond even if you're in favor of this godmode, blizz is seemingly on your side. just please help me understand why.

Problem is - outdoor is INTENDED to be trivial. Because it's intended to be 100% soloable backup content for moments, when players don't want or can't play in groups. Reasons? Mood, schedule, i.e. being unable to play during rush hour, etc. Lack of understanding this fact by devs - is the biggest factor, that killed many MMOs. Including Wildstar for example. THERE SHOULD BE 100% SOLOABLE BACKUP CONTENT IN MMO. Problem is - in recent xpacks Blizzard started to push more hardcore outdoor content, like Nazjatar. This problem is mostly caused by forcing group content on players and mixing solo content with group one. Excessive competition, including competition with other faction, implies grouping with other players to speed things up, including PVPing with other faction to push it away from this questing location. Rares/elites on every corner, that can't be beaten without group or M+/Mythic raid overgear. Large packs of hard mobs. Etc.

Blizzard think, that CRZ and crossrealm LFD solve all problems with group content. Problem is - they don't. Queues still way too long. Content dies for alts and returning players, when it becomes obsolete. Content becomes trivial zerg in groups, so I don't feel, that I play game - it feels like game auto-plays for me. And such "interaction" doesn't even bring any socialization. You wait for 20 minutes, you zerg boss within 5 seconds, group disbands. You don't even have time to see nicks of your party members.

So, simple thing. Leave outdoor alone for casual players. If you want harder content - this game has tons of it. M+, mythic raids, arenas, RBGs. Isn't it enough for you? STOP RUINING THIS GAME FOR CASUAL PLAYERS ALREADY!

[MoanaLisa]

A lot of people play to have fun. It's a myth that most players enjoy challenge. Some do and that's fine. There's content for them.

In short, if you're knocking over boars in some farmer's field, each boar shouldn't be a life-and-death struggle. Combat should be fun. That's not the same thing as saying it has to be difficult or challenging. Being out in the world is about winning and moving on to the next thing. Dying constantly isn't really much fun for average and less than average players. Taking several minutes to get something down if you aren't a damage dealer isn't any fun either. That last has been mostly fixed but back in the day long combat times for mobs that were trivial for tanks/dps classes wasn't a good time. You might have been nearly unkillable as a healer but taking a long time to kill something on a constant basis was terrible.

[Geckoo]

I'm happy playing trivial outdoors, indoors... whatever, i like that game.

[Accendor]

again, for those who are geared - absolutely they are trivial. for someone who just hit 120; no, no they were not

Ok, sure. You are actually right about that.

That opens up a complete other discussion of course, which is: Should current content always be build up around the lowest common denominator?

I am very much in favor of that not being the case, because it create a lot of problems, e.g.:

1. As long as you are somewhat play the expansion and keep your gear a little bit updated, you will never feel any sense of danger and therefore nothing feels impactful
2. Instead of expanding the content of the current expansion, it gets shifted. 8.0 content became irrelevant with 8.1 (mostly), 8.2 made the rest of 8.0 and 8.1 irrelevant, 8.3 removed 8.2. This mades the world feel small and the progression curve low.

So yeah, I get your point, but in my opinion its based on the assumption that the current way to deliver content and to handle accessibility is fine, and I disagree with that too.