WOW- Now pay to win?

[dojichan]

Don't know where you've been past few days but that was shotdown hard. Relics cost tons of gold to make atm

Im glad they fixed it. "ATM" was not fair for me. Last time I tested it was about 2 weeks ago.

[ymirsson]

The facts are the facts.

But the facts are that you can get lots of gold for RLM; you can get lots for boosts for Gold. But you would be hard pressed to "win" WoW without actually putting lots of effort in. Unless you are happy with being boosted through mediocre achievements.

[Belloc]

And you completely ignore that I disagree with your opinion and definitions, so you're not grabbing any internet points tonight.

I never ignored that. You quite obviously disagree. Of course, those are your opinions. I'm not stating opinions, I'm stating facts. Fact: Players don't determine win conditions, developers are the ones that do that. Fact: Players determine personal goals, which are not the same thing as win conditions.

Fact: you think that WoW tokens made the game P2W because WoW tokens = gold. Fact: WoW tokens = game time. Fact: Players were trading game time for gold long before WoW tokens existed.

None of these are opinions.

[Greyvax]

The garrisons in WoD caused a massive inflation of gold in players pockets. They did this to try and sink out the gold

[Kaver]

But the facts are that you can get lots of gold for RLM; you can get lots for boosts for Gold. But you would be hard pressed to "win" WoW without actually putting lots of effort in. Unless you are happy with being boosted through mediocre achievements.

I don't care about the definition of "winning WoW". Keep me out of that discussion. If you guys want to keep wasting time talking about that then go ahead.

I'm only addressing the facts:

- You can buy gold with RLM.
- You can buy gear with gold.
- You can buy mounts with gold.
- You can buy boosts with gold.

Now I'm not saying it's P2W because I don't give a shit about the definition of P2W. So keep me out of that. All I'm saying is that I think the above is bad and if I could choose it wouldn't be in the game. That's all I'm saying.

[Adam Jensen]

Spoiler alert: WoW token made WoW more pay 2 win than it was without it.


In what ways do you farm up 500 000 gold in one week? Multibox farming? AH-flipping?

Atal-Dazar crafting flip. Spamming Skyreach runs. AH flipping. 500,000 a week isn't easy but it's doable. And even for a more casual player, shouldn't take too long.

[dojichan]

Atal-Dazar crafting flip. Spamming Skyreach runs. AH flipping. 500,000 a week isn't easy but it's doable. And even for a more casual player, shouldn't take too long.

I love the Atal-Dazar crafting flip!

[Yunzi]

Obviously not everyone did. I'm terrible at making gold, so I never did, but tons of people made gold hand over fist. In order for that gold to mean something, there have to be items in game to spend it on. Whether you agree with the notion of inflation or not is rather irrelevant. It did happen. If players like you or I didn't take advantage that does not mean that plenty of others missed the boat.

It wasn't just missing the boat. Mission table gold-farming is fucking boring. A lot of players knew about it but couldn't be bothered with such terrible gameplay, even for a very lucrative reward.

[Echeyakee]

Just look at the pricing differences between these two almost identical mounts. One from MoP one from BFA.

There is no reason to put mounts behind these insane prices other than pushing people to buy the wow-token.

Yeah, that's just a gold sink. Also, while 3k was not that big of an amount in MoP, it was still a sizable investment. If I recall correctly, a year of weekly boost runs, selling rag kills and meta firelands mounts netted me like 150k in the end. That is less than a day's income for a booster today.

[Kaver]

Spamming Skyreach runs.

What is the gold per hour rate for this?

[dojichan]

I don't care about the definition of "winning WoW". Keep me out of that discussion. If you guys want to keep wasting time talking about that then go ahead.

I'm only addressing the facts:

- You can buy gold with RLM.
- You can buy gear with gold.
- You can buy mounts with gold.
- You can buy boosts with gold.

Now I'm not saying it's P2W because I don't give a shit about the definition of P2W. So keep me out of that. All I'm saying is that I think the above is bad and if I could choose it wouldn't be in the game. That's all I'm saying.

I only find these bad if it makes those with less skill... beat people with more.

For example,
PVP: Top ranked players are ones with lower skill but pay more money
PVE(Mythic+): Top ranked players are the ones with lower skill but pay more money
PVE(Raid WF): World first players have low skill but pay more money
PVE(Raid General): Only players who can beat mythic raid in first few months are ones who pay more money

In other words,
If real world wealth determines the brackets then I find it toxic.

Wow is no where close to this.

[doodle90]

That’s not play to win lol.

Just because you can get gold with money doesn’t equal pay to win because you can get better gear not using money. Like how is that a difficult concept to understand? Also you can make gold in the game. Those tokens don’t come from thin air so if it was pay to win those buying the tokens wouldn’t exist

[Kaver]

I only find these bad if it makes those with less skill... beat people with more.

For example,
PVP: Top ranked players are ones with lower skill but pay more money
PVE(Mythic+): Top ranked players are the ones with lower skill but pay more money
PVE(Raid WF): World first players have low skill but pay more money
PVE(Raid General): Only players who can beat mythic raid in first few months are ones who pay more money

In other words,
If real world wealth determines the brackets then I find it toxic.

Wow is no where close to this.

That's a fair opinion. But too me that's a very low standard. As a principle I don't think it's good if a person who pay RLM has an easier time in any way than a person who doesn't.

[dojichan]

That's a fair opinion. But too me that's a very low standard. As a principle I don't think it's good if a person who pay RLM has an easier time in any way than a person who doesn't.

That is also a fair opinion.

[Baneto]

I never ignored that. You quite obviously disagree. Of course, those are your opinions. I'm not stating opinions, I'm stating facts. Fact: Players don't determine win conditions, developers are the ones that do that. Fact: Players determine personal goals, which are not the same thing as win conditions.

Fact: you think that WoW tokens made the game P2W because WoW tokens = gold. Fact: WoW tokens = game time. Fact: Players were trading game time for gold long before WoW tokens existed.

None of these are opinions.

Thats your opinion, and I appreciate it.

[melodramocracy]

You're several expansions late to this conclusion.

[Razion]

PvE win = Clearing Mythic Raids or high-level mythic plus dungeons.
PvP win = High rank Arenas/Rated BGs.

Not seeing where mounts fit in.

Pay-to-win has a simple definition: The developer (Blizzard) selling equipment with stats. Mounts are not pay-to-win. Cosmetics are not pay-to-win. Player-sold loot/runs are not pay-to-win.

WoW is not pay-to-win and will not be pay-to-win until Blizzard starts selling non-cosmetic equipment.

Did you perhaps miss world first guilds paying for BoEs with gold bought from tokens in recent tiers? Because that seems to fit your criteria.

[The Butt Witch]

Atal-Dazar crafting flip. Spamming Skyreach runs. AH flipping. 500,000 a week isn't easy but it's doable. And even for a more casual player, shouldn't take too long.

Imagine paying a sub to a game only to grind for money to pay for sub to the game, barely having any time to actually PLAY the game.

[dojichan]

Imagine paying a sub to a game only to grind for money to pay for sub to the game, barely having any time to actually PLAY the game.

1) If you make 500k a week you can pay for two months(and have left over)... Meaning you only have to spend 1/(8-9) week. Thus you easily still have time to actually play the game<3
2) At least of me, the things I do for gold are playing the game. I enjoy them so even if I spent 100% of my time making gold... I would still have time to actually play the game<3

[muten roshi]

I just meant Legion missons ended up becoming as ridiculous as WoD missions. It was only when BfA came out that the gold from missions truly died.

And has the value of gold increased with BFA because of that?

- - - Updated - - -

Players were making millions of gold just by having 10 alts with access to Garrisons during WOD. If that's not inflation then I don't know what is.

Of course it is. What I said was that the gold still continued to lose value even after WoD. So it's not the missions. It's the WoW token.