Shadowlands has the least content of any expansion yet

[chiddie]

There will be NEVER enough initial content for rushers.

It’s simply not possible if Blizzard sticks with an expansion every two years. We would need a 3 years expansions cycle to get more content at the beginning for rushers.

[NordWitcher]

MMOs are about repetition of tasks.
I don't understand why you seem surprised that unique / one-shot contents are drought after a few dozens hours of playing in the FIRST 3 DAYS of a 1.5y-long expansion.

Not it’s not. It’s something these big corporations abs started and created to drive “player engagement” and boost their numbers. The more you get people to come back daily to log into your game the better it looks. MMOs have always been about the social aspects of these games. Even going back to Destiny early on in the first game where it was just fun to play with a group of people blowing through content. Then they just made everything feel like a chore and all of these developers have started cashing in on the “fear of missing out” aspect of human behaviour rather than anything else. That is the worst part of modern MMOs and Games as a Service. Log in every day or buy this season pass or lose out forever. That is not how games are suppose to be. I use to just love binge playing Destiny for a month every year. It was fun. Now you lose out on so much if you even stop. Similarly with WoW to an extent. So either you totally committed to the game or just take a step back and say it’s not for you.

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Greetings!

I know this will be unpopular since a lot of us are still in the honeymoon phase of a new expansion but ... out of all the expansions Shadowlands has the least launch date content yet.

Why? Even when not rushing but just considering the numbers I am out of things after 16 hours of playtime on level 60. Taking in another 12 hours of leveling that's about 25 hours of initial content that I have experienced on one character before I reach all the timegating limits. This is including the mythic dungeons, gearing up, torghast, all the campaign quests leading up to the limit, quite a few world quests and a bit pvp.

I remember having 26 hours on level 120 with BFA when I ran out of things before the timegating set in, legion was even bigger with over 40 hours (played a full week on level 110 before end of things).

I know what you might say now - play another character to experience another covenant, or it's your own fault because you rushed. Yes I rushed with three full days gaming but just looking at the numbers we have around 25 hours of content with Shadowlands that is kind of fresh before you reach the end. That is lame.

Seriously that is not much playtime for a 40 Euro expansion. We're talking about initial content here not the timegating content that sets in week after week and forces you to subscribe longer and longer which in return costs you money again. And even those 25 hours where stretched wherever possible with no mounts in the Maw, scarce flight points, no flight whistle etc.

I am bit disappointed at the moment - sure the dungeons are fun, the raiding will be fun but content wise? It's a bummer when also considering that a lot of content is used assets like Maldraxxus or Ardenweald.

Happy to hear your side of things or did I miss something?

Stay civil!

Best wishes

If you talking about “artificial grinds” and just terrible game systems as “content” then I rather have Shadowlands over anything like BFA. Creating 30 hours of “content” and it just being a mindless and unfun grind is not something I want in my games. Then having to do the same thing on alts is just tedious and terrible game design.

I like playing alts for the most part and I think this expansion seems pretty alt friendly compared to BFA.

[GnomeEU]

It took me 18 hours played on lvl 60 to finish all the mythics
- i queued as a healer which speeds the process up a few hours
- i did normal dungeons for a few hours, then heros few hours etc.
- i did it all random, its probably a lot faster if you can go heroics the moment you ding 60 with your guildies

But let's take my time, plus 12 hours for leveling
That's 30 hours, or 4-5 hours a day.
Add 20 or so hours if you wanna do some side quests.

I'd say its more than enough content.
The No-Lifers can create some alts now to make some more cash or help their raid.

To me Shadowlands has more than enough content right now

[Revamp Man]

There was never a point in bfa where I felt anything was a grind or felt behind on some arbitrary requirement you personally set. I only ever did content I wanted to do when I wanted to do it. You can run your 100 islands a week and hate them, I'll do my anywhere from weekly minimum up to 10 and enjoy them the whole time.
So far every WQ are the exact ones I only ever did in bfa/legion if the rewards were or could be worth it. No WF/TF means gear ones were worthless on day 1, meanwhile in bfa I would have gone out to or (after flying) stopped by the kill this 1 rare because they were quick and easy regardless of its rewards.
Less WQs means less options. In bfa I don't recall ever helping a turtle make it to the water other than once or twice on beta because I didn't like it but luckily there were the shells/maze/calligraphy ones I could wait for.
Right now I have the 3 WQ in bastion calling but there are only 4 up for me, 1 is a pet battle and I know that waiting won't bring in anything that is less tedious.

so you do have the ability to do the 3 quests even without pokemon but because its not a quick and easy kill you find it pointless

[cuafpr]

I agree it has least variety, but least content that's still up to debate
I do miss old days of tbc/wrath, where exp start with 7+ zones, but even biggest wrath zone (my most fav game ever) isn't as big as Suramar for example from legion

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WoD had daily quest or two... it wasn't until last patch that they upped dailies
And i still consider daily system superior to WQ, daily i know anytime i log a day i can do them all and done, wq is so random it is annoying

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why do u want a mount, or mini pet, or anything
at least toys still interest me, but wow 'mount' reward really is useless now, if i use 2 different mounts every single day, i'll still pass a year without using every single mount i have
toys at least are different

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they are about both, but grind was always a base core of mmo, if anything wow reduced it a lot than how it was pre-wow

I'm talking about being able to use a mount vs having to run all over the place......

[Pawpurr]

So I guess OP finished loremaster, all the dungeon acheivements, You've got your anima bubble full for next week's ugprades, You've never missed a mission table adventure and you've also chased down all the rares and mounts.

Wow dude, you're pretty good.

[Glorious Leader]

The whole issue with expansions past was that the “daily chore of Power Grind” was neither compelling content nor was it enjoyable.

What we wanted was less obligatory chores and more optional content, and alts being able to be played without feeling like the time spent made you fall behind on your main, because you could be grinding islands instead, for instance.

This is what we got. Less menial chores, more catchup, less forced content.

Imagine for a moment that you're developing a game. The feedback is that they cant help but continue to play your game despite themselves because the reward engineering was done so well that people kept playing. Now as a rational adult you might think to yourself "this is fantastic news people are hooked on our game". Evidently neither you nor the developers fit this qualification though. Instead of doing the reasonable thing and ignoring or dismissing these "complaints" the developers decided that they needed to gut the rest of the game because individuals lacked self control.

It boils down to choice. You can argue that it was a poor quality of choice for you but you still had the ability to choose not to do content despite the fact that it included some form of power gain. Now thats been effectively neutered to save you from having to make that choice but robbing others of the ability to pursue those gains. Freedom of choice is what you said wanted but freedom from having to choose is what you really want.

[Deferionus]

Not it’s not. It’s something these big corporations abs started and created to drive “player engagement” and boost their numbers. The more you get people to come back daily to log into your game the better it looks. MMOs have always been about the social aspects of these games. Even going back to Destiny early on in the first game where it was just fun to play with a group of people blowing through content. Then they just made everything feel like a chore and all of these developers have started cashing in on the “fear of missing out” aspect of human behaviour rather than anything else. That is the worst part of modern MMOs and Games as a Service. Log in every day or buy this season pass or lose out forever. That is not how games are suppose to be. I use to just love binge playing Destiny for a month every year. It was fun. Now you lose out on so much if you even stop. Similarly with WoW to an extent. So either you totally committed to the game or just take a step back and say it’s not for you.

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If you talking about “artificial grinds” and just terrible game systems as “content” then I rather have Shadowlands over anything like BFA. Creating 30 hours of “content” and it just being a mindless and unfun grind is not something I want in my games. Then having to do the same thing on alts is just tedious and terrible game design.

I like playing alts for the most part and I think this expansion seems pretty alt friendly compared to BFA.

Every MMORPG I have played since 2002 when I first started the genre had grinding as a core part of the game to some degree. WoW was considered a grind friendly game back in classic. If you want to see a grindy game look at RuneScape Classic. I am not talking OSRS which was about 6x faster to level than the classic version. You would need 1.3m experience for 98 to 99 and the best exp rates in the game were approximately 30,000 exp a hour (in melee combat skills). That would be 43 hours for a single level. My understanding is other big MMOs from that time period such as DAoC, Ultimate Online, and Everquest were similarly grind heavy. Grinds is simply a part of the genre, though these have been heavily tuned down as the genre's audience has aged from teenagers to adults in their 30s and 40s with too many responsibilities to play video games 16 hours a day.

Edit: I do agree with the "miss out" development developers do now. I don't like the forced feeling they give. My best times in WoW were when I was free to do whatever I wanted and not have something forced on a time basis. This is a big part of why I don't do the majority of end game now and just do what I feel like. Playing casual is more enjoyable than the pressures of keeping up with the Joneses and putting up with elitists.

[Celestraza]

This is the first expansion I feel that I am able to take my time. Reading the quests and immersing myself.

I feel that though the quests to 60 are a lot less compared to other expansions. They do feel more meaningfull and engaging to me. I really like it that you just focus on the main story and there are little meaningless sidequests.

Tbh it has been a long time I actually am enjoying the questing. I was 60 before I knew it. Very curious how the end game wil be now.

[Mightytasty]

The only daily "chore" is to complete your one calling per day, with a 3 day grace period. Takes about 30 minutes. The core endgame "loop" is basically do dungeons/PvP/world quests/whatever you prefer to fill your anima bar, and then mix in some maw & torghast which are largely optional. It's basically a "do what you want to do" expansion.

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Yes, for me it does. I'm already working on alts. That will only last so long. And then, like I did in WoD, I'll move on.
(Subjective opinions are the worst!)

So you already got your main to 60, filled your anima bar, did all 8 mythic 0's, completed all of your callings & maw dailies, and completed both wings of Torghast? If so, you're in the 1% of players.

Shadowlands has enough content to satisfy 99% of players, and CERTAINLY more than WoD - that is not a subjective opinion. You can argue about the quality of content, but the quantity is there.

[Thenatural]

Actually, quite a lot of people, me included, saluted the infinite power grind introduced in Legion

We literally cannot be here, can we?

Holy shit.

Also, nice bait thread.

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Also, I would very much like it if OP could tell me the content WoD, MoP, or WotLK launched with. That would be lovely and a rather good place to start the discussion, don't you think?

I'll wait for your reply with bated breath, thanks!

[ReVnX]

I have content for months

[NordWitcher]

Every MMORPG I have played since 2002 when I first started the genre had grinding as a core part of the game to some degree. WoW was considered a grind friendly game back in classic. If you want to see a grindy game look at RuneScape Classic. I am not talking OSRS which was about 6x faster to level than the classic version. You would need 1.3m experience for 98 to 99 and the best exp rates in the game were approximately 30,000 exp a hour (in melee combat skills). That would be 43 hours for a single level. My understanding is other big MMOs from that time period such as DAoC, Ultimate Online, and Everquest were similarly grind heavy. Grinds is simply a part of the genre, though these have been heavily tuned down as the genre's audience has aged from teenagers to adults in their 30s and 40s with too many responsibilities to play video games 16 hours a day.

Edit: I do agree with the "miss out" development developers do now. I don't like the forced feeling they give. My best times in WoW were when I was free to do whatever I wanted and not have something forced on a time basis. This is a big part of why I don't do the majority of end game now and just do what I feel like. Playing casual is more enjoyable than the pressures of keeping up with the Joneses and putting up with elitists.

Yeah well you have to understand like you said, the same player base that played these games "back in the day" have grown up and have more responsibilities. You cannot be expecting your players to be spending 16-20 hours a day on your game. Right now I've just gotten so burnt out on AAA gaming. Every game coming out is another "soulless' open world game that follows the same formula is a bunch of check lists to complete. No game really made you want to go out and actually explore the world because you wanted to find something new or cool. Open world games work best when done right like Red Dead Redemption 2 and The Witcher 3. No other game deserves or needs to be open world and not when they releasing sequels every year or other year.

Like I said, grinds work well when its done right. Leveling up your character is a good grind. Grinding for azerite power is a terrible grind even though both are grinds. Leveling up is at least you exploring the world and doing quests. Grinding for azerite power is a just a mindless grind and feels like a chore. Good grinds when done well are not as overwhelming or burn the player base out.

[Helander]

You are 184 ilvl? I know you aren't, so you didn't run out of content. You ran out of content that you know about and want to do. There's a huge difference.

[vsb]

That's true. They definitely cut the budgets in Shadowlands. It's obvious that there's less content compared to the previous expansions. Less zones, less quests, less dungeons. I hope that they'll compensate that with later patch content. Otherwise that would be a grim sign of WoW decline.

[WowIsDead64]

Yes you could, I ignored them and still raided mythic. It was harder to ignore at the beginning of expansion (first 2 months or so) but nowhere near as bad as legiondaries were.

It's standard problem. Hardcore players have several options to skip such content. They can be carried directly to higher content. Unfortunately casuals don't have such options.

[Merlunie]

I was browsing today as I have previously found MMOC to be.... controversial at best. I use it as a recruiting tool when I’m playing. Anyways I wanted to share my general thoughts as someone who had played since vanilla on and off. At both the level of clueless idiot and US Top 25 raider.

SL has been kind to me so far. I’ve leveled 2 toons in a decent amount of time, crushed M0 on both, hit renown 3, done Torghast on both toons as well as doubling back to help guildies. I fucking PVP’d for the first time since Cata.

Last time I had two toons leveled and geared was WOD. I’m not even pushing hardcore. We’re a two day guild. I’m genuinely excited for this xpac because it doesn’t take much to be prepared. All we have to do is mostly weekly shit to stay on level. If you want that’s ALL you have to do to keep up.

If you want more guess what?? The Maw guy has items that allow you to add sockets to gear. Go farm Stygia for your minor power increase just like farming islands over and over again.

We got everything everyone has ever wanted. Welfare epics are more or less gone, grinding daily is not required to be at the higher end, and if you want to push as high as you possibly can you can also do that. They added PVP vendors back for shit sake. Do the extra shit if you’re bored or level an alt. It’s really not that hard.

[Aphrel]

This has been a trend for several expansions now, blizz release it in such a barebone state that after only a day or 2 you find yourself with literally nothing left to do on your char. All features are pushed to be released later... always later... even when the features are completed and no more work is planned on them.

Why blizz doesnt open up m+ but with an ilvl cap on day 1 is beyond me. Only being able to do the m0 dungs once a week then nothing more is such a dumb way to deliver a new expansion.
And thorgast... talk about a gutpunch learning of its timegated state just a few days be4 the expansion... that was a real gutpunch.

The only thing to do is to either play another game or start an alt.

[kukkamies]

If you want to see a grindy game look at RuneScape Classic. I am not talking OSRS which was about 6x faster to level than the classic version. You would need 1.3m experience for 98 to 99 and the best exp rates in the game were approximately 30,000 exp a hour (in melee combat skills). That would be 43 hours for a single level.

tbh Runescape Classic doesn't have any progression past skills at around 60. That's also why the last levels take so long, there's nothing for higher levels. The most difficult quest only needs stats of 50s. The most difficult enemy is King Black Dragon, which isn't difficult at all. It's a half done game.

[bloodykiller86]

Greetings!

I know this will be unpopular since a lot of us are still in the honeymoon phase of a new expansion but ... out of all the expansions Shadowlands has the least launch date content yet.

Why? Even when not rushing but just considering the numbers I am out of things after 16 hours of playtime on level 60. Taking in another 12 hours of leveling that's about 25 hours of initial content that I have experienced on one character before I reach all the timegating limits. This is including the mythic dungeons, gearing up, torghast, all the campaign quests leading up to the limit, quite a few world quests and a bit pvp.

I remember having 26 hours on level 120 with BFA when I ran out of things before the timegating set in, legion was even bigger with over 40 hours (played a full week on level 110 before end of things).

I know what you might say now - play another character to experience another covenant, or it's your own fault because you rushed. Yes I rushed with three full days gaming but just looking at the numbers we have around 25 hours of content with Shadowlands that is kind of fresh before you reach the end. That is lame.

Seriously that is not much playtime for a 40 Euro expansion. We're talking about initial content here not the timegating content that sets in week after week and forces you to subscribe longer and longer which in return costs you money again. And even those 25 hours where stretched wherever possible with no mounts in the Maw, scarce flight points, no flight whistle etc.

I am bit disappointed at the moment - sure the dungeons are fun, the raiding will be fun but content wise? It's a bummer when also considering that a lot of content is used assets like Maldraxxus or Ardenweald.

Happy to hear your side of things or did I miss something?

Stay civil!

Best wishes

considering you most likely havent done all the puzzles, easy mount and toy collecting etc i severely doubt you've exhausted all available content lol