(TV) Star Trek: Discovery

[Saltysquidoon]

Hey! I never said it was perfect. After 3 seasons it finally climbed the small mountain of being a little better than Voyager.

God, I miss Captain Genocide.

But in all seriousness (and I can't believe I'm defending discovery) I think the fact it's got those truncated streaming service seasons really hurts it. With the syndicated tv seasons there's room to skip the absolute trash like a bad arc with good standalones (or vice versa) and still follow the show.
When people (such as myself) say they like ENT for example, they're talking about the good episodes not the whole thing in its entirety. STD's season length and less syndicated plot structure simply doesn't allow for this.

[Ivanstone]

God, I miss Captain Genocide.

But in all seriousness (and I can't believe I'm defending discovery) I think the fact it's got those truncated streaming service seasons really hurts it. With the syndicated tv seasons there's room to skip the absolute trash like a bad arc with good standalones (or vice versa) and still follow the show.
When people (such as myself) say they like ENT for example, they're talking about the good episodes not the whole thing in its entirety. STD's season length and less syndicated plot structure simply doesn't allow for this.

That’s fair. It’s one of the reasons I like DSC S3 is that they’re doing single episodes but with the back drop of a larger story. This isn’t as well executed as I would like but it’s a big improvement over S1.

TNG is still my favourite and I don’t dwell on its weaker episodes. I guess that’s the ultimate disappointment of Picard. There are worse episodes of TNG but those episodes aren’t 10 hours long.

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It is my opinion that Discovery doesn't even hold a candle to the worst episode of Voyager (and I'll accept there were a few bad ones). When Voyager was on point, though, it was outstanding.

And it usually wasn’t. Part of the reason Voyager still holds up is all of those EMData and SevenOfData episodes. Take those away and the show suffers greatly in comparison.

Actually come to think of it even earlier Discovery is better than your average nonEMH or non7 episode.

[Elim Garak]

She's in Starfleet because of her brain. But keep on ignoring that. And she still jogs more than most, otherwise no Captaincy for her.

The problem is that obesity is easily fixed, with the right brain. So this is another ridiculous moment. If she had THE brain she wouldn't be fat in the future where they have advanced medicine and human body knowledge. She is in this show only because of body positivity. She is not a model citizen of the Federation who dedicates their lives to better themselves.

One specific ship may just have a random assortment of crew that happens to be uneven (and it might not be, I haven't bother to count). It a huge nothing burger unless you're a snowflake looking for a reason to whine.

As I said, we are talking about a specific ship in a specific show about this ship. Someone decided to assemble that cast.

Sure they can. They ask for a pronoun to be used which isn't any different from using their given name or title.

If they ask for pronouns - they reveal their condition. You mentioned privacy rights - they are out of the window now - as irrelevant.

I ask people to refer to me as "he" or my name but I don't feel the need to share more about myself than that. There's nothing wrong with that.

No one asked anybody to reveal anything more. She hid her condition but then asked to be referred to as they. But you seem to be missing a point.
If her condition is accepted - she should feel no need to hide it, but she did - that's absurd. But that's what you get when the agenda gets ahead of good writing.

A Trill without a symbiont is a very, very different thing than a Trill with one. A human with a symbiont is much like the latter than a regular human. And who are you to define what is normal? I don't find the character to be abnormal in the slightest.

A Trill is an alien, symbiont or not. Suspension of disbelief is enabled for aliens.

Normal is what is observed in the general population. Gender fluidity is not normal. But not being normal is not bad. It's just statistics. What's bad about gender fluidity - it's a medical condition that should've been cured in Star Trek by the 32nd century. It's a "current year" issue in a "far and better future" TV show.

So you think that only STD is pushing "transgenderism' the fuck you think the Trill have always been a stand in for?

There's a good way to represent something (Trill) and then there's a bad way. A Trill is not a transgender - a Trill is an Alien. Some of them have symbionts that store and share memories and personalities of previous hosts. Perfectly fine. Sci-fi thing. Now a human who was gender fluid... before joining...
It's perfectly obvious why they went for a HUMAN host for TRILL symbiont. That's what my complaint is about. SJW cringe. Especially the Stamets face when she explained her gender fluidity - CRINGE.

[Ivanstone]

The problem is that obesity is easily fixed, with the right brain. So this is another ridiculous moment. If she had THE brain she wouldn't be fat in the future where they have advanced medicine and human body knowledge. She is in this show only because of body positivity. She is not a model citizen of the Federation who dedicates their lives to better themselves.

As I said, we are talking about a specific ship in a specific show about this ship. Someone decided to assemble that cast.

If they ask for pronouns - they reveal their condition. You mentioned privacy rights - they are out of the window now - as irrelevant.

No one asked anybody to reveal anything more. She hid her condition but then asked to be referred to as they. But you seem to be missing a point.
If her condition is accepted - she should feel no need to hide it, but she did - that's absurd. But that's what you get when the agenda gets ahead of good writing.


A Trill is an alien, symbiont or not. Suspension of disbelief is enabled for aliens.

Normal is what is observed in the general population. Gender fluidity is not normal. But not being normal is not bad. It's just statistics. What's bad about gender fluidity - it's a medical condition that should've been cured in Star Trek by the 32nd century. It's a "current year" issue in a "far and better future" TV show.

There's a good way to represent something (Trill) and then there's a bad way. A Trill is not a transgender - a Trill is an Alien. Some of them have symbionts that store and share memories and personalities of previous hosts. Perfectly fine. Sci-fi thing. Now a human who was gender fluid... before joining...
It's perfectly obvious why they went for a HUMAN host for TRILL symbiont. That's what my complaint is about. SJW cringe. Especially the Stamets face when she explained her gender fluidity - CRINGE.

Being highly intelligent isn't a sign of perfection. The Unabomber is a genius with an IQ of 170 and he's a mass murderer who believes in a huge amount of absolute horseshit. Tilly is merely chubby and if she expects to command in Starfleet she knows she'll have to improve herself in a multitude of ways. A citizen of the Federation in the 23rd century has the opportunity to improve themselves but that doesn't mean they have to or can do it in all directions. Tilly's in Starfleet because her chubby ass adds value to the Science and Engineering departments.

As I said. You're looking for an excuse to whine. All I see are members of Starfleet crewing an experimental starship.

Only because you deem it. I am quite happy to use their preferred pronoun and not ask for a damn thing more.

A human living in the 32nd century with an alien parasite wrapped around their heart requires a certain suspension of disbelief.

Speaking of Agendas. How about them Trill spots? I wonder why they have those? Is there an agenda at work here?

Again, there's nothing wrong gender fluidity and there's nothing to be cured. Are you going to be miserable until they have an episode where we get to "Pray the Fluidity Away"?

[Sorshen]

Tilly is probably the least qualified person in the room at any time for that XO position, so all this is pretty fucking strange.

[Kithelle]

One episode: Burnham realizes maybe the universe doesn't revolve around her, character growth!
Next episode: Burnham is the only one who can do the thing

You can't make this trash up....just so awful, it's bottom tier fan fiction written by CW rejects

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Tilly is probably the least qualified person in the room at any time for that XO position, so all this is pretty fucking strange.

This is from the same guy who believed it was logical to promote a cadet to captain...that a captain wouldn't say a word after he was treated as Discovery's doormat by most of the command staff...that a captain would thank his insubordinate officer for actually following his orders for once

It's all pure stupidty written by idiots who know nothing about science....command structure...all they know is drama and magic

[Ivanstone]

One episode: Burnham realizes maybe the universe doesn't revolve around her, character growth!
Next episode: Burnham is the only one who can do the thing

You can't make this trash up....just so awful, it's bottom tier fan fiction written by CW rejects

It could be worse. It could be bottom-tier internet rantings from people who listen to shit head conspiracy theorists on youtube.

[s_bushido]

You can't make this trash up....just so awful, it's bottom tier fan fiction written by CW rejects

Imagine still watching a show you have said you hate for literal years. Pathetic.

[Elim Garak]

Being highly intelligent isn't a sign of perfection. The Unabomber is a genius with an IQ of 170 and he's a mass murderer who believes in a huge amount of absolute horseshit.

No one said anything about perfection. Is The Unabomber fat? No. Interesting.
Being fat is bad for health. A smart person should realize that. Morality has nothing to do with it. It's self-preservation.

Tilly is merely chubby and if she expects to command in Starfleet she knows she'll have to improve herself in a multitude of ways.

Stop downplaying her obesity I can see her, so I don't understand what you are trying to achieve here. She's obese. Probably has diabetes or insulin resistance (a.k.a pre-diabetes).

A citizen of the Federation in the 23rd century has the opportunity to improve themselves but that doesn't mean they have to or can do it in all directions. Tilly's in Starfleet because her chubby ass adds value to the Science and Engineering departments.

But those in Star Fleet are the best of citizens. No one needs Tilly's fat ass in Engineering - there are Jefferies Tubes you know.

As I said. You're looking for an excuse to whine. All I see are members of Starfleet crewing an experimental starship.

As I said you are missing the point. I don't give a fuck if Tilly is fat, I don't care if she's smart. What I complain about is her character is INCONSISTENT for the sake of body positivity.
Tell me is it important for Tilly to be fat? What's the value of her obesity to her as a character? Is it anywhere near the core of the character?
Nope. She could be healthy and still be a smart-ass quirky bubbly red-head. So it means either the casting director didn't know the source material - or specifically pick the fat one. Or maybe they said "that one" and were misheard as "fat one" and then it was too late.

A human living in the 32nd century with an alien parasite wrapped around their heart requires a certain suspension of disbelief.

I have no problem with the parasite part. The problem is her gender fluidity is a prior condition. Had they made it like Trill experience of multiple personalities. I would've been fine with that. She got the symbiont so that would've been a given that she has multiple personalities. See how good writing works? But this way you cannot make a political statement. So we have a gender-fluid human who got the Trill symbiont and suddenly feels open about being gender fluid. What's the message here? Gender fluid people are not normal until they get the parasite around their heart?

Speaking of Agendas. How about them Trill spots? I wonder why they have those? Is there an agenda at work here?

What about them? Trill's an alien. How many times do I need to repeat it? Even if there's agenda - it's invisible until pointed out.

Again, there's nothing wrong gender fluidity and there's nothing to be cured. Are you going to be miserable until they have an episode where we get to "Pray the Fluidity Away"?

Everything is wrong with gender fluidity. It's a medical condition that needs a cure ASAP. My problem is not with gender fluidity though. It's with breaking the 4th wall. I'd very much prefer no mentions of gender fluidity in humans on a star trek show

[cyberglum]

She's there for her brain meats and she jogs better than I do.

If you check back on the Silly-Tilly episode Tilly jogs better than anyone else in Starfleet. She holds the record for the fastest lap of whatever the course is they run, infact she breaks the record in that episode.

Great writing.

[Ivanstone]

No one said anything about perfection. Is The Unabomber fat? No. Interesting.
Being fat is bad for health. A smart person should realize that. Morality has nothing to do with it. It's self-preservation.

Stop downplaying her obesity I can see her, so I don't understand what you are trying to achieve here. She's obese. Probably has diabetes or insulin resistance (a.k.a pre-diabetes).

But those in Star Fleet are the best of citizens. No one needs Tilly's fat ass in Engineering - there are Jefferies Tubes you know.

As I said you are missing the point. I don't give a fuck if Tilly is fat, I don't care if she's smart. What I complain about is her character is INCONSISTENT for the sake of body positivity.
Tell me is it important for Tilly to be fat? What's the value of her obesity to her as a character? Is it anywhere near the core of the character?
Nope. She could be healthy and still be a smart-ass quirky bubbly red-head. So it means either the casting director didn't know the source material - or specifically pick the fat one. Or maybe they said "that one" and were misheard as "fat one" and then it was too late.

I have no problem with the parasite part. The problem is her gender fluidity is a prior condition. Had they made it like Trill experience of multiple personalities. I would've been fine with that. She got the symbiont so that would've been a given that she has multiple personalities. See how good writing works? But this way you cannot make a political statement. So we have a gender-fluid human who got the Trill symbiont and suddenly feels open about being gender fluid. What's the message here? Gender fluid people are not normal until they get the parasite around their heart?

What about them? Trill's an alien. How many times do I need to repeat it? Even if there's agenda - it's invisible until pointed out.

Everything is wrong with gender fluidity. It's a medical condition that needs a cure ASAP. My problem is not with gender fluidity though. It's with breaking the 4th wall. I'd very much prefer no mentions of gender fluidity in humans on a star trek show

You'll have no trouble finding intelligent people having bad habits. The Unabomber is smart enough to realize that living like a hobo is not good for your health either but that didn't stop him from doing it. Dude was only skinny because he was malnourished.

I'm beginning to think you don't understand what the word obese means. Its a specific medical term and a 5'9 woman who weighs 150 lbs (yep, that's her weight) doesn't qualify. At that height you're not considered obese until you hit 200 lbs.

She's smart enough they let her in. That's what happens when you got lots of brain power.

Maybe she just passed the audition because she was fun to watch on screen. Because she is. Maybe be less prejudiced.

Some people are gender fluid. Deal with it snowflake. I like the character so far.

The agenda is they changed the make up for Trills because they wanted the pretty girl to look pretty on screen. Which is fucking stupid and transgressive but its not really worth dwelling on. Just pointing out that there's always a variety of agendas swirling around but for some reason you only dwell on particular ones.

Your problem is that your a bigot and that's the entire basis of your criticism. The 4th wall was never broken, you just hate what you saw and are being up flimsy justifications for problems with you.

[Dhrizzle]

Everything is wrong with gender fluidity. It's a medical condition that needs a cure ASAP. My problem is not with gender fluidity though. It's with breaking the 4th wall. I'd very much prefer no mentions of gender fluidity in humans on a star trek show

Gender fluidity isn't a medical issue and the biggest problem is bigots in society refusing to accept the way someone identifies. The biggest problem is gender dysphoria which is the disconnect between how a person's mind expects their body to be and the way it actually is, that can be a medical issue but one that can be treated through hormonal and surgical means. I expect by Star Trek times it is something that can be identified and dealt with early on so there's no discernible difference between trans- and cis-gendered people.

But dysphoria isn't Adira's problem, they don't feel they fit comfortable into a male or female social identity and prefer to be addressed with neutral pronouns. This is a "problem" that is very easily solved (and from Stamet's reaction has been) by people understanding what the terms "gender neutral" or "non-binary" mean and accepting people who identify that way. Hopefully that very easy step is taken by humanity before the 23rd century.

[Elim Garak]

You'll have no trouble finding intelligent people having bad habits. The Unabomber is smart enough to realize that living like a hobo is not good for your health either but that didn't stop him from doing it. Dude was only skinny because he was malnourished.

Not in Star Fleet, not the habits that affect health. No smoking, no drinking, no overeating junk food. is it too much to ask?

I'm beginning to think you don't understand what the word obese means. Its a specific medical term and a 5'9 woman who weighs 150 lbs (yep, that's her weight) doesn't qualify. At that height you're not considered obese until you hit 200 lbs.

I'm beginning to think you are clueless. For a woman 5'9, 150lbs is in THE IDEAL HEALTHY weight range. So what are you smoking? Are you claiming she's not even chubby? She's bigger than me and I'm 5'9. Did you believe a tabloid that said it's her weight or something? She's over 200. Get real.

She's smart enough they let her in. That's what happens when you got lots of brain power.

You seem to be confused... who decided that they would let her in? The Show Creators. Star Fleet doesn't exist, you know. And all I'm asking is consistency with the source material.

Maybe she just passed the audition because she was fun to watch on screen. Because she is. Maybe be less prejudiced.

Maybe, whatever the reason she's not a good cast for the role of SF officer. Is all.

Some people are gender fluid. Deal with it snowflake. I like the character so far.

No one is gender fluid. Some people just say they are, maybe they are sick in the head, maybe they lie. Who knows.

The agenda is they changed the make up for Trills because they wanted the pretty girl to look pretty on screen. Which is fucking stupid and transgressive but its not really worth dwelling on. Just pointing out that there's always a variety of agendas swirling around but for some reason you only dwell on particular ones.

Awesome change. Didn't even notice. Aliens.

Your problem is that your a bigot and that's the entire basis of your criticism. The 4th wall was never broken, you just hate what you saw and are being up flimsy justifications for problems with you.

It's interesting that insults in this conversation are on a one-way road. You may believe whatever makes it easier for you to deal with what I say. I don't really care.

[s_bushido]

Hopefully that very easy step is taken by humanity before the 23rd century.

That was the only thing strange about that scene for me. Adira is from even further in the future than the rest of the crew, so you'd think this would have been something that was rendered "ok, no big deal" a long time ago. Nevermind that being called "they" could also refer to the fact that they're a joined entity with the experiences/memories of generations worth of people (even though it was made pretty clear that they felt that way before they were joined).

[Ringthane]

If she jogged she wouldn't be fat. Fat people cannot jog, btw, it's bad for their spine and joints. The first treatment for obesity is diet and WALKING, not jogging.

False dichotomy.

Gender fluid people are sick in the head. If they aren't - and "it's normal" there's no need to invoke the right to privacy, otherwise how else others will REFER to the right? Hm?
And you are being hypocritical now by violating my right to privacy. No one needed to know that I masturbate to JP podcasts.

Wow, aren't you just a sparkling ray of sunshine. Is there anybody you don't hate?

I assume you're going to say yourself, but I think we can all see the truth in that.

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No one said anything about perfection. Is The Unabomber fat? No. Interesting.

Did you... Did you just make a guy who literally planted bombs to hurt people sound better than some overweight people?

Yes. Yes you did. There's no point in even bothering with someone like you. A mind that closed, black holes get jealous.

[neocount]

Broadly speaking, Doctor Who, Star Wars, and Star Trek have ALL now been adopted by those with specific and very clear societal leanings. The producers and writers of those shows and movies use those platforms to stand on a proverbial soap box to preach their ideology and cater to a completely new audience while alienating a massive swath of their original fans. The reaction of people like Elim and Ivanstone and even myself, should not be a huge surprise to anyone. It would be akin to taking a show like Euphoria - assuming for a moment Euphoria had decades of fan following - and making all the characters blatantly religious, pious, cis-gendered heterosexuals. Dealing with concepts of gender, sexism, and mental illness have always been part of Star Trek, but it was dealt with tastefully and prompted the viewers to think about these issues rather than telling the audience what they should believe.

[Ermelloth]

The show has way too much SJW woven into it & I can't stand the new Klingons.

I love Star Trek - TNG, VOY, especially DS9. I also really liked ST: Picard. But Disc.. it just doesn't feel right.

[Ivanstone]

It's interesting that insults in this conversation are on a one-way road. You may believe whatever makes it easier for you to deal with what I say. I don't really care.

You care a great deal because you’ve complained upon this repeatedly in the past. And since my first reply I’ve thought your were a bigot and implied as much. Maybe you should treat this as a learning experience.

[s_bushido]

Doctor Who, Star Wars, and Star Trek have ALL now been adopted by those with specific and very clear societal leanings.

lol "Now?" I can't speak for the Dr Who, as I've never seen it, but Star Trek has always leaned progressive. The only people whining about it now are those who either weren't paying attention, or who make a living sitting in front of their walls of pop culture merchandise whining about the evils of women.

And other than the environmentalism aspect of the casino scene in Last Jedi, there's been next to nothing indicative of "societal leanings" in any of the new Star Wars stuff.

[Ivanstone]

But Disc.. it just doesn't feel right.

That’s the problem with aiming for nostalgia. You gotta get right or it won’t feel right. ENT was far enough in the past that it wasn’t a big issue and the Kelvin movies were directly implied to be reboots.

DSC floundered in the first season and it’s been trying to right itself ever since. It’s improving itself at least.

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lol "Now?" I can't speak for the Dr Who, as I've never seen it, but Star Trek has always leaned progressive. The only people whining about it now are those who either weren't paying attention, or who make a living sitting in front of their walls of pop culture merchandise whining about the evils of women.

And other than the environmentalism aspect of the casino scene in Last Jedi, there's been next to nothing indicative of "societal leanings" in any of the new Star Wars stuff.

Dr Who has always been about having a very open and curious mind.

Star Wars is OG Antifa. Hell, much of the first movies plot was directly cribbed from a WW2 movie.

Neither of these things lends itself to conservative politics.