Will there be a tuning pass?

[Zarvel]

Personally I think Ret paladins Are busted right now. My buddy is playing Ret and they can burst crazy high, 6-7k, haven’t seen anyone come close to that. Maybe it’s skewed because mythic 0 fights are so short when you burst like that but I don’t know

If that's ST burst, then it's kinda the similar to, if not lower than what Unholy DK's do, something I main. Wait for m+ and raiding where fights last longer than the wings duration, rets will fall back in line.

[Zyky]

Is there going to be a tuning pass before the raid launches or are we stuck with what we have?

There will be at least 1 tuning pass, based on what Blizzard did in Ny'alotha it's possible we'll see several passes over the first 3 months.

[Relapses]

then dh lost even more compared to 90% classes...

It's not like DHs have some of the best mobility in the game and a very unique kit that is extremely effective for a lot of content.

Nah. Fuck all that shit. THE SIM SAID I'M LAST PLACE DELETE DH'S FIRE ION THE SKY IS FALLING ARRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!

[Accendor]

It's not like DHs have some of the best mobility in the game and a very unique kit that is extremely effective for a lot of content.

Nah. Fuck all that shit. THE SIM SAID I'M LAST PLACE DELETE DH'S FIRE ION THE SKY IS FALLING ARRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!

DHs lost part of that Mobility too with SL.
Its fine if they are not in the absolute top tier of damage, but let's be honest here: if the discrepancy is as big as it is right now, you simply don't take DHs to raids as long as you have an alternative.

[Relapses]

DHs lost part of that Mobility too with SL.
Its fine if they are not in the absolute top tier of damage, but let's be honest here: if the discrepancy is as big as it is right now, you simply don't take DHs to raids as long as you have an alternative.

5% spell damage buff says hi.

[Shedaar]

I hope they wont nerf VDH to the ground - I'm really enjoying playing it and it has really good burst.

[TomatoBisque]

Personally I think Ret paladins Are busted right now. My buddy is playing Ret and they can burst crazy high, 6-7k, haven’t seen anyone come close to that. Maybe it’s skewed because mythic 0 fights are so short when you burst like that but I don’t know

Ret damage on a M0 fight is going to be high because it has very strong but long cooldowns. M0 fights last 30 seconds, maybe a minute in low gear unless there's intermission phases or mechanics that drag it out (such as Devos, Margrave Stradama, or Mueh'zala). 30 seconds is perfect for Ret because the best Ret covenant is Venthyr, which gives an ability with a 4 minute cooldown that does a large amount of damage (probably 8-10k uncapped aoe depending on your gear), makes Hammer of Wrath usable outside of execute and causes it to deal double damage. Great for stacking with Avenging Wrath to blow up a M0 boss, but their DPS will be less absurd over the course of a 6 minute raid fight or higher level M+ where this ability doesn't have a 60% uptime or whatever

Which leads into...

A lot of people are expecting tuning, even going as far as expecting certain legendaries to be buffed or nerfed, but I’m not seeing it. Heroic raid and mythic dungeons doesn’t give Blizz any new data they wouldn’t already have. I think at best we’ll get a +5% aura buff to some spec that struggles. But I could be wrong.

Why this is wrong. Because M0 bosses are so squishy, they can easily die in the duration of bloodlust which gives cooldowns a high uptime, which is going to favor classes with stronger cooldowns (which also tend to be longer duration and cd). This is why the Heroic raid week is important--it's the first live showing off how damage looks over the course of several minutes.

[Schmeebs]

DHs lost part of that Mobility too with SL.
Its fine if they are not in the absolute top tier of damage, but let's be honest here: if the discrepancy is as big as it is right now, you simply don't take DHs to raids as long as you have an alternative.

DHs are buffbots for the 5% magic damage, theres your raid spot for one DH.

Plenty of other classes have been in that slot before, this is your turn.

[Dald]

why can't this community just let ret be good for more than a patch

Because "good" is busted ass broken OP and balanced is "ret sux" to a Ret Paladin.

[Swnem]

They will use the data from normal/heroic on live to make changes. They always do.

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Because "good" is busted ass broken OP and balanced is "ret sux" to a Ret Paladin.

Can you provide evidence on why Ret would be "busted". Is this a PvP thing or what? It does not look overpowered at all in PvE. If it's Venthyr paladins, their ability is a 4m cooldown. It will look good on short fights, but that's kind of it. Still can't beat a good Destro lock or marks hunter. So... paladin is not what i think will see changes. The aforementioned specs might see nerfs. Enhancement and feral might see buffs.

But so far this is all word salad cause the raid ain't in yet and the changes will be based on it. Performance in Mythic0 is irrelevant.

https://www.wowmeta.com/shadowlands/dps-rankings
I know this is now a bit out of date, but based on it and given Ret's got nerfs since, i think there is zero chances of there being nerfs. You gonna have to learn to adapt if it's a PvP issue. Ret's are very easy to counter. Also, Ret lost it's blessings utility baseline, so it will get compensated in damage. They are supposed to be doing a bit more to make up for it. Again, nothing here is busted. You gonna have to get used that you can't just wave them away like they are nothing. Even though you still can with the right timing on stuns, purges and slows.

[Scathan]

Arcane mage reporting in

Oops was supposed to be a reply to the ret pally doing 7kish

[Tesshin83]

Could someone please answer me this:

Reading this thread it seems like most of you regard tuning to be done in terms of damage numbers. Why is that?

Doing damage is not the most important thing for a damage dealer. Or maybe slightly.

A lot of classes and speccs and also covenants and soulbinds have better or worse survivability and utility tools. What you lack in damage you may gain in survivability.

You cant do any damage while dead and in my experience as healer, people arent exactly "optimizing" their ability to do mechanics either.

Mobility and defensive abilities may by far more important than you realize so if even though you think you need buffs, those who make the game disagree.

I personally take any buff to mobility and survivability over throughput at least during progression since I cant do shit if I am dead.

[Swnem]

Could someone please answer me this:

Reading this thread it seems like most of you regard tuning to be done in terms of damage numbers. Why is that?

Doing damage is not the most important thing for a damage dealer. Or maybe slightly.

A lot of classes and speccs and also covenants and soulbinds have better or worse survivability and utility tools. What you lack in damage you may gain in survivability.

You cant do any damage while dead and in my experience as healer, people arent exactly "optimizing" their ability to do mechanics either.

Mobility and defensive abilities may by far more important than you realize so if even though you think you need buffs, those who make the game disagree.

I personally take any buff to mobility and survivability over throughput at least during progression since I cant do shit if I am dead.

I dunno. I get the feeling it's PvP'rs coming here to cry even though it's not a PvP thread.

[Morgaith]

There has to be both a pvp and a pve tuning pass soon or we'll end up with BFA all over again.

[ztn]

It's not like DHs have some of the best mobility in the game and a very unique kit that is extremely effective for a lot of content.

Nah. Fuck all that shit. THE SIM SAID I'M LAST PLACE DELETE DH'S FIRE ION THE SKY IS FALLING ARRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!

the only 'unique kit' that dh have now is 'no burst damage' so in short boss fights in m0-m+ we see 10k dps mages/dks/moonkins etc and 3k dps dh... then we go to kill big thrash pack 1min later and what we see? same mages/dk etc do 12k aoe dps while dh do 8k...

[Accendor]

DHs are buffbots for the 5% magic damage, theres your raid spot for one DH.

Plenty of other classes have been in that slot before, this is your turn.

DHs were already in that spot last expansion I took the easy way out and simply switched classes

[holywhiskers]

How do you know they're blindly following guides? Have you considered people are more conscious than you might consider?

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So you think DH needs even harsher nerfs? Sounds good I agree whole-heartedly

Was just pointing out your proposed changes miss the problem, Blade Dance doesn't need a nerf, it's literally unusable. And Spirit Bomb needs a damage nerf. Havoc however needs serious buffs.

[dcc626]

Hunter AoE bursts above 12k dude. 7k is weak numbers.

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Well, here's a recent example. I play Hunter. Hunter's best covenant ability during beta was Death Chakrams. They nerfed it so hard that it does less single target damage than the AoE Covenant abilities now. They literally slashed its damage by half. It's total trash now.

So, how likely is that a nerf goes overboard? Very likely based on recent nerfs.

they spent most of beta nerfing covenants into the ground so they wouldnt have to on live. instead we are going to see classes get baseline nerfs instead. enjoy.

[Clawsout]

Try being a feral druid crushing every1 in dungeons but no1 wants to bring you cuz your considered crap compared to boomkin due to not being a ranged class the community stigma is hilarious i hope there's a turning pass cuz i do alot of damage i wanna be crap if the community won't bring me

[TrickNasty]

Shaman will be nerfed simply because someone at blizzard cannot fathom letting them be competitive. Yet they’ll not touch any toolkit that a rogue or mage has. Imagine how fast a shaman would be nerfed if they could reset a fight, or have the ability to completely control a fight. What about if they could blink twice while still casting, have a shield that is very large on top of having an auto root when it breaks. Then to top it off, have a spamable polymorph.

Yes I’m bitter. Yes I’ve lost fights to rogues and mages. No the game isn’t balanced around 1v1 but when you can see a good rogue or mage take on not one of any class but two people and still beat them? It’s ignorant. Maybe they need to rethink the philosophy of having not being balanced around 1v1 because letting a class be able to handle themselves would benefit everyone instead of a select few.