PSA: Don't try Torghast as a solo healer anymore.

[Minikin]

honestly id be happy if they just make phantasma from mobs like it is from phylacteries. i hate having to go loot every single mawrat.

[Biglog]

Way too much RNG with the anima powers and too much RNG for solo healers. Some are cake, others are absolutely impossible dps races that can't be done below certain ilvls. And spending a hour in there on a floor to leave on a boss you can't down for nothing sure is fun. From Torghast to Covenants to even simple things like poor design of quests or rep grinds (like Avowed wtf)...there were some really strange, odd, game design decisions for SL. In a lot of ways Shadowlands doesn't "feel" like wow. It kind of feels like another company tried to make an mmo clone of wow and got some things right and some wrong.

Of course if you're 190+ ilvl clearing M+ 14s all day you can say it's not hard, but reality is it still is difficult. Those folks are just putting a lot of other work and time in doing M+ and raiding to outgear it.

[wysimdnwyg]

Powers are that important BECAUSE the worn ilvl is to low. If the gear is higher, you require less of the good/perfect powers.
It's simply a matter of "I want to do content that is not for my ilvl, but I let powers carry me. If I don't get those, the game is simply overtuned!"

I really don't think you are grasping my point. I don't care that it's hard. Hell, make it harder! I'd be fine with just doing layer 3 every week until I'm at ilvl 200, then working my way up to layer 6. My point is that the anima powers are tuned so disparately that being undergeared, but getting good powers, makes something that perhaps I shouldn't be doing very easy, while getting bad powers makes it very, very hard. If you get the ez-mode first, you feel like you can clear the next layer easily. Then you get demolished on the same layer you just dominated, and it's worse than just getting beat down on the first one and dropping down a layer or two. Instead, we're put in a position to try and game the system to front-load the good powers, or just constantly run below the level we've already beat (and know we can again, if we just get some good powers). But with the way the anima powers are right now, how do I know if I'm running too hard a layer? Is it when I can't beat it with all crap powers, or should I move up when I get all great powers and blast through the entire run? It's likely somewhere in the middle, where if I get a run with a mix of good/bad powers, then I can accurately judge where I am. But I've had very few of the middling runs. Either they're ridiculously easy with OP powers, or they're ludicrously difficult because I'm forced to take powers where I feel like I'm actually hurting by taking them. (I actually had one, Elethium Lantern, that gives +15% leech, but reduces shadow damage I do by 75%. I'm an Aff-Lock. All I do is shadow damage. Thankfully I had another option that time.)

It's like running a regular dungeon where the end boss has 200k hp and it's cake, then running the SAME dungeon, and the end boss has 2M hp and hits 10x as hard. If you get the 200k version, it's easy and boring. If you get the 2M hp version, it's a painful experience that no one wants to deal with. Add on the possibility that you have no way to know which version you're in until half way through the run, and that's how Torghast feels to me right now.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Ah of course the last 2 layers are a major pita now, after all it would make the maw suck less. GG .

[Bloodyleech]

I really don't think you are grasping my point. I don't care that it's hard. Hell, make it harder! I'd be fine with just doing layer 3 every week until I'm at ilvl 200, then working my way up to layer 6. My point is that the anima powers are tuned so disparately that being undergeared, but getting good powers, makes something that perhaps I shouldn't be doing very easy, while getting bad powers makes it very, very hard. If you get the ez-mode first, you feel like you can clear the next layer easily. Then you get demolished on the same layer you just dominated, and it's worse than just getting beat down on the first one and dropping down a layer or two. Instead, we're put in a position to try and game the system to front-load the good powers, or just constantly run below the level we've already beat (and know we can again, if we just get some good powers). But with the way the anima powers are right now, how do I know if I'm running too hard a layer? Is it when I can't beat it with all crap powers, or should I move up when I get all great powers and blast through the entire run? It's likely somewhere in the middle, where if I get a run with a mix of good/bad powers, then I can accurately judge where I am. But I've had very few of the middling runs. Either they're ridiculously easy with OP powers, or they're ludicrously difficult because I'm forced to take powers where I feel like I'm actually hurting by taking them. (I actually had one, Elethium Lantern, that gives +15% leech, but reduces shadow damage I do by 75%. I'm an Aff-Lock. All I do is shadow damage. Thankfully I had another option that time.)

It's like running a regular dungeon where the end boss has 200k hp and it's cake, then running the SAME dungeon, and the end boss has 2M hp and hits 10x as hard. If you get the 200k version, it's easy and boring. If you get the 2M hp version, it's a painful experience that no one wants to deal with. Add on the possibility that you have no way to know which version you're in until half way through the run, and that's how Torghast feels to me right now.

That's exactly what I meant, tho. There is a reason I wont touch L7/8 till I got atleast ilvl 200.
If one can beat a specific layer only with goodish anima, it's a sign of "come back later or pray to good rng".

Bad anima can be carried by better gear, while bad gear can be carried by good anima, but is is harder to achieve than getting better gear.

[salate]

Thats how roguelike games played actually. Sometimes you get the best powers, sometimes you dont. The bindings of Isaac is a great example. You cant really kill Void level if you have bad combos etcetc, i guess thats the whole point of torhast. It doesnt mean to be always easy. Sometimes its just easier to start again. the genre

[ZazuuPriest]

Still easily soloable in Prot spec as a paladin.

[GreenJesus]

yep - i seen last night the thogast chat - its full of people who literaly hate being there,

there was espceially this 1 shammy who almost cried when he took 1,5 hour to got to floor 6 and didnt have enough dps to kill elder longbranch before it stops reacting to ccs.

i mean who even had this idiotic idea to make them non-ccable after 10 stacks - thats epitomy of "lol come back here when you have more gear"

and he did all this to get what 50 extra ash ? .... less then table mission gives you

i coudl understand this if it was like L 1 - 100 ash - L3 - 250 ash - L6 500 ash so for example if you do L6 you get like 1000 + ash but currently with ash decreasing with difficulty ? only masochists will do aything higher then L4-5

Soul ash from table mission? Kyrian covenant doesn't know what that is since we got stuck on the campaign missions since our units suck ass.

[Redroniksre]

Thats how roguelike games played actually. Sometimes you get the best powers, sometimes you dont. The bindings of Isaac is a great example. You cant really kill Void level if you have bad combos etcetc, i guess thats the whole point of torhast. It doesnt mean to be always easy. Sometimes its just easier to start again. the genre

Which is fine and dandy, but not when you spend over an hour doing it and come out with literally nothing. It is why a lot of them have progression outside of each run so even if you do a shit job you get -something-. Right now, Torghast is a waste of time.

[Kehego]

Powers are that important BECAUSE the worn ilvl is to low. If the gear is higher, you require less of the good/perfect powers.
It's simply a matter of "I want to do content that is not for my ilvl, but I let powers carry me. If I don't get those, the game is simply overtuned!"

this.
it was too easy, now it's balanced around your itemlevel. People in 160-170 gear really have no business in layer 5+

- - - Updated - - -

Which is fine and dandy, but not when you spend over an hour doing it and come out with literally nothing. It is why a lot of them have progression outside of each run so even if you do a shit job you get -something-. Right now, Torghast is a waste of time.

you do have progression outside of torghast, though.

its called gear

[Redroniksre]

this.
it was too easy, now it's balanced around your itemlevel. People in 160-170 gear really have no business in layer 5+

- - - Updated - - -



you do have progression outside of torghast, though.

its called gear

Its called M+, raiding or rated PVP which if you dont do you should already be capped out. Torghast is supposed to be their big solo feature, requiring people to do non solo shit to progress in it ruins the whole point

[callipygoustp]

Boring and a pain in the ass. Great game design.

[kaminaris]

If you don't want rng roll a hunter and go bm. Did layer 8 today, going for 8 tomorrow (second wing).
You dont have rng because all power sucks but its ok, good pet will carry you like a paid booster for real money.

I have heard that demo lock is also ez as fuck.

BUT i have also heard that warriors/dh struggle hard.

And by the way i don't see how you could do long lasting content that is not hard and not too easy and will not be consumed in first week.
When you get the gear it will be ridiculously easy. The only problem with torghast is that powers were suppose to be powers and be actually fun untill they nerfed fun out of it.

[Kehego]

Its called M+, raiding or rated PVP which if you dont do you should already be capped out. Torghast is supposed to be their big solo feature, requiring people to do non solo shit to progress in it ruins the whole point

and you can still do layer 4-5 in heroic dungeon blues lol

not being able to do layer 8 on your scrub alts doesn't make it unbalanced or whatever

- - - Updated - - -

If you don't want rng roll a hunter and go bm. Did layer 8 today, going for 8 tomorrow (second wing).
You dont have rng because all power sucks but its ok, good pet will carry you like a paid booster for real money.

I have heard that demo lock is also ez as fuck.

BUT i have also heard that warriors/dh struggle hard.

And by the way i don't see how you could do long lasting content that is not hard and not too easy and will not be consumed in first week.
When you get the gear it will be ridiculously easy. The only problem with torghast is that powers were suppose to be powers and be actually fun untill they nerfed fun out of it.

torghast is just as fun as it was the first time

its shit, its great. if you like roguelikes you'll like it, if you don't, you wont.

[Very Tired]

Curious as to why so many people were soloing it as healers or tanks. Was there some mechanic that made runs faster than your dps spec?

[Puupi]

Done all 8's on guardian druid and demo lock. No issues.

Doing it on my resto shaman tonight.

- - - Updated - - -

Curious as to why so many people were soloing it as healers or tanks. Was there some mechanic that made runs faster than your dps spec?

Yes. Mobs have less hp and you are immortal. Before the changes there was absolutely zero sense to go in as a dps if you could change to healer or tank spec.

[Kalisandra]

The buff to bosses hit me hard on my mage too. 350k for the floor 4 empowered interceptor. cant interrupt, cant kite, just death

I got that guy on my i170 prot pally. Managed to not die to the Critical Shot by stunning, LOSing, etc. but his normal bow shots were doing 1/3rds of my health, and he'd shoot then auto attack for the same damage right after. After a while I'd run out of cooldowns and heals, and that would be that. I tried again later and got that caster Venthyr on floor 1, when I had all of two animas, neither of them useful vs a caster.

I get Torghast being random like as a rogue-like, but that's not just bad luck. Not the first one, anyway.

- - - Updated - - -

And that is especially stupid as roguelikes usually use skillchecks for their bosses... Bullethells, evasion, stuff like that.
I hab really expected the Torghast bosses to be something like the wildstar bosses with their crazy floor patterns or the Heart of Fear boss with the circle bullet evade mechanics... but no, it basically just gear checks.

Well, there are those bosses that one-shot you if you don't run out fast enough (and which often put a slow on you). They're a combination of twitch/latency test and a "Did you fail on the chargen screen by taking a slow class?" test.

[T-34]

Every thread, without fail, there is this exact post. It's tradition at this point to be shitty towards people and lay blanket statements out. Perhaps, get this, people just find it unfun and feel no need to jump in front of criticism for Blizz.

And in every thread without fail there is either an original poster or his "supporters" that instead of accepting their inability to do some content either because lack of skill, experience org gear throw out blanket statements how "shitty" and "unfun" the game is.

[Kalisandra]

The place was fun the first couple runs but got my legendaries and now I'm only going there for the ash.

Also those dogs that spawn when your out of combat is just plain annoying and boring and all they do is slowing you down.

The various assassins are just stupid. Want to actually stop and think about your anima choices? Have an assassin. Want to work through a puzzle rather than just follow a guide on the internet? Have an assassin (or two or three). Your kid has some kind of an ooopsie? Hope you can get if fixed in a minute or two, or one of your lives is gone. The same goes for your boss deciding to ring you during your time off. They are just a bad idea, and nothing to the experience.

[Tang0]

Did 7 and 8 of the assassin wing the other day as a fury warrior. Fairly challenging, immortal for 7th layer, bad anima for layer 8. Wouldn’t have been able to do layer 8 if I weren’t a night elf. The spawned assassin tuning is out of whack.