Winter queen origins & relatives

[draugril]

He say Jailer it's titan level threat

Exact quote, bolding mine:

Honestly, it's almost the opposite of a challenge (having the identity of the final boss public at the start). It's almost an easier way to tell a story and set up an expansion with a very clear theme, harkening back to the Wrath or Cataclysm/Deathwing days. We didn't openly talk about the end boss for some recent expansions because it wouldn't have made sense at the time, or it would have given away story spoilers and twists. For example, in Warlords of Draenor, if you were told you'd fight Archimonde at the end, it would have been a head-scratcher. But here, there is a major titan plus plus level antagonist that we are facing, and there are major steps in our journey to undercover the nature of the jailer's plan and put together the forces to have a chance against him. That story will wend its way through all of Shadowlands and our content updates, until we ultimately do get a chance to face the Jailer.

Interpret that how you will, but it seems to me that they're beyond the Titans.

[darkoms]

Exact quote, bolding mine:



Interpret that how you will, but it seems to me that they're beyond the Titans.

You didn't give me an exact quote, you gave me what you yourself read on Wowhead. Wowhead isn't the only source of information, you know?
Ion Hazzikostas has described the Jailer as a "titan-level" [7] or "titan plus plus level" antagonist. [8]
https://web.archive.org/web/20200714...on-hazzikostas

Not to mention, a Titan-level threat might refer to the fact that it threatens our world-soul. How can the Eternal Ones be at the level of the Titans, if Devos kicked Archon's ass, and we defeated Denatrius without any help?

[bagina]

Reposting this:

You know, she’s not a Titan, but she’s something kind of right below that. She’s an ultra-powerful creature here and part of this pantheon in a similar way that the Titan Watchers and Keepers we’ve seen in the past were part of the pantheon of law and order. These are the pantheon of death. So, that was sort of a starting point is that she’s a creature above and beyond the night fae themselves. She’s part of a greater order.

https://sagamer.co.za/2020/08/20/a-d...f-hibernation/

Either a case of miscommunication between the devs or even the creators themselves haven't agreed on their powerlevel. Or wowhead is wrong

[username993720]

None of that is on the pages you linked. And far from all of it is irreconcilable with the Chronicles. E.g. it's perfectly possible the rogue Val'kyr actually joined the Kyrians, making both claims true. They were kind of dead, after all.



This is actually incorrect; the Runecarver had the plans, but he was not the one who created the items. This is quite clearly shown in-game when you deliver the 15th memory.

It doesn't matter what you think is possible. It matters what the lore states to be true or false (until said otherwise). Therefore, claiming they could have been something does not make it reconcilable.

It doesn't matter if the Runecarver made them, the First Ones or the Jailer himself. It is not the Nathrezim, nor the Lich King.

A hydralisk from a Blizzard game. Clearly a crocolisk looks more crocodilian than anything. Crocodiles do have enlarged scales that can resemble fine. The common basilisk somewhat resembles a crocolisk? What are you smoking dude clearly the look more like crocodiles. And why are you trying to suddenly switch to a different source of inspiration for the isk? Your wrong get over it. It's ok to be wrong.

Inspiration doesn't need to be from mythology. Or is Harrison Jones a completely original Blizzard creation? Are Devilsaurs devil dinosaurs? or are the inspired by the T-rex? Why not just call a brutosaur a brontosaurus? Or do you have some secret Blizzard knowledge. You sure act like you do even though you are constantly proven wrong.

I didn't say because she can do powerful magic. I don't even think she is the Winter Queens sister. I said there were several things like her being powerful and using powers that no other regular joe person in the covenants can do that not even the important story characters use, her running half of Ardenweld including the half Ysera was in, her being on the court and having a high title, and other things that could lead to her being the Winter Queens sister even though I don't think she is. I used her as a way to get people to think of other possible ideas other than just Eonar and Elune and have spent 5+ pages defending myself from you.

Yes Droman are a title and so is Lord and Lady. Are the leaders of the Wild Hunt and groves and stuff going to be the weakest creatures? Of course not don't be stupid.

At this point I can clearly see you don't really want to have a discussion and just attack people so this will be my last post to you maybe I should have read your whole post first before bothering to respond.

How many times do i have to repeat myself? This Hydralisk is more likely to be inspired by science fiction alien creatures, than actual mythological creatures.

So, now your argument that their scales can resemble fins are valid but, mine aren't? nice demagogy...

Jesus christ... you're unwilling to see that Blizzard took inspiration from the D&D Basilisk, whether because of game technicality (using the same skeleton rig), or because they wanted to.
Once again, i'm quoting from sources:
"A crocolisk (sometimes referred to simply as a croc) is a six-legged, amphibious, reptilian predator found in coastal waters that bears much resemblance to a basilisk or the real-life crocodile."
"Basilisks are heavily-armored, six-legged lizards which are related to the crocolisk."

There is, absolutely, no reason for it to resemble, or be related, to the basilisk unless it is somewhat inspired by it (meaning, the developers combined features from the crocodile and the D&D Basilisk into the Crocolisk creature).

But, we know who Harrison Jones is inspired by (Indiana Jones, played by Harrison Ford). he's not a combination of two individuals. The Saur is meant to imply its categorization (dinosaur family). Who knows how Blizzard decides on their creatures' names... maybe some are copyrighted (like Panda was forbidden to be used by Blizzard in WoW, by the chinese, until 2012).

She is as average a character as General Draven, Ja'red Haze or Heralcor. You overestimate her.

No, they're not. But, they are not powerful creatures either. They are just leaders. They do not, even, compare to the Winter Queen.

Nice try getting rid of competition by reporting my post. Definitely, a winner's move -_-

Infracted.

If anything I would say the Winter Queen and Freya have the most in common. Freya was the one to create the Emerald Dream, Freya who empowered the Dragon Aspects, and Freya that created the Wild Gods too. It was all power given by Eonar but that doesn't get the credit.

The Keepers and the Eternal Ones are capable of very similar feats. Both are able to create stable afterlife dimensions (Emerald Dream, Halls of Valor, Helheim). Both can essentially manufacture intelligent life within their realms. Denathrius makes Stoneborn like Loken made Iron Vrykul. The Keepers are basically directly responsible for all native life on Azeroth. Both are powered by an energy source called Anima. Denathrius vs. Thorim is a better power level comparison based on how strong he is in-game.

First Ones ordered the Shadowlands and then created the Eternal Ones to run the place.
The Titans ordered Azeroth and then created the Titan Keepers to run the place.

So the Winter Queen regarding Freya as one of her sisters, and Ysera her pet, makes a lot of sense.

It could make actual literal sense if the First Ones = The Titans in which case Eonar would have been responsible for both Freya and the Winter Queen. That would be a boring twist to the secret of who the First Ones are though.

That, actually, makes a lot of sense. Nice of you to point it out. The only issue that needs to be solved is the power levels. The Eternal ones were compared to titanic power

Except that you then need to claim that Val'kyr cannot become Kyrians and thus spirit healers for it to contradict the Chronicles. So by positing that there is a contradiction, you implicitly make a claim that Val'kyr cannot become Kyrians. Since we already know that all or at least most Kyrians are former mortals, we have no reason to assume they can't.

So yes, you do make a claim, and your fact doesn't actually cause a contradiction.

Actually, it's not up to tommyhil622 to prove something doesn't exist. It's your job to prove that they do. I can make a claim that a giant pink elephant appears in the game every time you're not paying attention. asking you to prove that it doesn't is nonsensical and absurd. By your logic, everything that is sent to Bastion can, eventually, be a Spirit Healer. A Pandaren that is sent to Bastion, goes through the trials and becomes a Kyrian is, essentially, also a Spirit Healer. Does that mean, that by lore, Pandaren are Spirit Healers? That argument of yours, that anything can be a Spirit Healer if it is sent to Bastion, goes, absolutely, nowhere. The wisdom is to prove your point as valid, not make assumptions and demand others to disprove it.

[DemonHunter18]

Reposting this:



https://sagamer.co.za/2020/08/20/a-d...f-hibernation/

Either a case of miscommunication between the devs or even the creators themselves haven't agreed on their powerlevel. Or wowhead is wrong

you can base their strength off of Archon so the art dev is right.

anyway, to stay on topic this guy summed it up pretty well
https://www.reddit.com/r/warcraftlor...queens_sister/

[huth]

It doesn't matter what you think is possible. It matters what the lore states to be true or false (until said otherwise). Therefore, claiming they could have been something does not make it reconcilable.

Except it is in the lore. Val'kyr goes to Oribos, gets judged for Bastion, becomes Kyrian and then goes to work as a Spirit Healer. There, a Val'kyr became a Spirit Healer through a path that is entirely lore-based.

And yes, by claiming that a contradiction exists, tommyhil622 does in fact implicitly claim that this is for some reason not possible, and thus needs to provide proof why not. He doesn't need to prove that that there are no Val'kyr spirit healers, and that likely isn't possible. He needs to prove that Val'kyr cannot become spirit healers.

It doesn't matter if the Runecarver made them, the First Ones or the Jailer himself. It is not the Nathrezim, nor the Lich King.

Except we don't actually have proof it wasn't the Nathrezim. Who are implied to be working together with the Jailer through Denathrius.

[tommyhil622]

It doesn't matter what you think is possible. It matters what the lore states to be true or false (until said otherwise). Therefore, claiming they could have been something does not make it reconcilable.

Agreed. It's pretty obvious.

[huth]

Agreed. It's pretty obvious.

Again, there is a lore-based path for them to become spirit healers. We're even tasked with walking that path partially ourselves during the bastion campaign.

[Unbelievable]

Except it is in the lore. Val'kyr goes to Oribos, gets judged for Bastion, becomes Kyrian and then goes to work as a Spirit Healer. There, a Val'kyr became a Spirit Healer through a path that is entirely lore-based.

And yes, by claiming that a contradiction exists, tommyhil622 does in fact implicitly claim that this is for some reason not possible, and thus needs to provide proof why not. He doesn't need to prove that that there are no Val'kyr spirit healers, and that likely isn't possible. He needs to prove that Val'kyr cannot become spirit healers.



Except we don't actually have proof it wasn't the Nathrezim. Who are implied to be working together with the Jailer through Denathrius.

Anyone and anything that goes to the Shadowlands can become a Spirit Healer, eventually. This is, hardly, a logical argument. It needs to be in official lore for it to become true. Otherwise, every humanoid race in WoW universe is, potentially, a Spirit Healer. I can argue that Elune is a flying spaghetti monster. But, that would entail me having to back it up with lore, not by expecting others to disprove my claim. Who says Val'kyr don't go to the Halls of Valor once again when they die? This is an option as well. As it, currently, stands Spirit Healers have been retconned in lore from being Val'kyr to being Kyrian. It is up to you to prove it otherwise. Hypothesizing what could, potentially, happen would get us nowehere, as every mortal race can become Kyrian upon death. That doesn't mean that they are, officialy, ones in lore.

Again, you are speculating as to whatever can happen. Who's to say it wasn't the Arbiter? As it stands, we can come up with names from now till the end of days. Right now, it is stated to be otherwise.

Again, there is a lore-based path for them to become spirit healers. We're even tasked with walking that path partially ourselves during the bastion campaign.

So, are we Spirit Healers in lore?

[Nachtigal]

That Ardenweld is the only Covnenant that has natural creatures that actively interfere with its very nature. That the winter queen isn't this stoic monolith that you said wouldn't go along with Lady Moonberry's games when she has many fairies in her court in high positions of power and even attends and compliments the silly plays they put on. That people can and do say my ______ if front of _______.

What fact have you had against it? Literally everything you keep saying is wrong. Like thinking the Drust were naturally part of Ardenweld and that Gorgons were a replacement for werewolves.

And I have even said multiple times that I don't think its the real sister and have already mentioned earlier who I thought it was so I'm not sure why you have to continually be snide and continue to press this.

Not to mention the very first thing you see is Moonberry planning a prank...

[huth]

Anyone and anything that goes to the Shadowlands can become a Spirit Healer, eventually. This is, hardly, a logical argument.

No, it isn't. Nor is it meant to be. The argument is that since everybody can become a Kyrian eventually, rogue Val'kyr becoming Spirit Healers does not contradict all Spirit Healers being Kyrians.

Everybody being able to become a Kyrian is the lore to back up the claim that Val'kyr becoming Spirit Healers does not contradict Bastion lore.

Who says Val'kyr don't go to the Halls of Valor once again when they die?

The Halls are not a natural destination for dead. That's why the Val'kyr exist in the first place, to intercept "valorous" warriors before the Kyrians cart them off. That's part of the official lore, too. So all they really had to do is not go there, and since they're rogue Val'kyr, that's rather strongly implied to be the case.

Hypothesizing what could, potentially, happen would get us nowehere, as every mortal race can become Kyrian upon death.

Unless the question of whether a certain fate is possible is the point you're trying to make in the first place, as is the case here. Yes, every mortal race can become Kyrian... so we can't rule out that the Val'kyr did, and thus we can't claim that it contradicts a previous statement that some Val'kyr became Spirit Healers.
We also know that even undead mortals still get to go to the Shadowlands, as is shown by the various Forsaken souls present in several realms.

I'm not even sure what you're trying to argue here, but it seems you never bothered to figure out what i'm arguing for, since your supposed counterarguments largely go nowhere.

[Unbelievable]

No, it isn't. Nor is it meant to be. The argument is that since everybody can become a Kyrian eventually, rogue Val'kyr becoming Spirit Healers does not contradict all Spirit Healers being Kyrians.

Everybody being able to become a Kyrian is the lore to back up the claim that Val'kyr becoming Spirit Healers does not contradict Bastion lore.


The Halls are not a natural destination for dead. That's why the Val'kyr exist in the first place, to intercept "valorous" warriors before the Kyrians cart them off. That's part of the official lore, too. So all they really had to do is not go there, and since they're rogue Val'kyr, that's rather strongly implied to be the case.



Unless the question of whether a certain fate is possible is the point you're trying to make in the first place, as is the case here. Yes, every mortal race can become Kyrian... so we can't rule out that the Val'kyr did, and thus we can't claim that it contradicts a previous statement that some Val'kyr became Spirit Healers.
We also know that even undead mortals still get to go to the Shadowlands, as is shown by the various Forsaken souls present in several realms.

I'm not even sure what you're trying to argue here, but it seems you never bothered to figure out what i'm arguing for, since your supposed counterarguments largely go nowhere.

The point is, since everyone can become a Kyrian upon death, and therefore, a Spirit Healer, it does not make Val'kyr a Spirit Healer. When the Val'kyr were the supposed Spirit Healers in WoW, you didn't think of them becoming another creature to be called a Spirit Healer. You thought of a Val'kyr being the Spirit Healer itself. Since a mortal soul becomes a Kyrian in Bastion, they are no longer considered their previous race. Therefore, you can't consider a Val'kyr being turned into a Kyrian, a potential Spirit Healer, because everyone can be one. For your argument to be true, it needs to be in official lore. At the moment, Val'kyr were retconned out of lore from being the creatures that spirit dead souls to the afterlife (as Val'kyr, not something else) and Kyrians took their place.

"World of Warcraft: Chronicle Volume 1 mentions that some Val'kyr split from the Valarjar after Odyn and his forces were imprisoned within the Halls of Valor and disappeared into the Shadowlands to watch over the physical world and occasionally guide the dead back to the realm of the living, implying that they became the spirit healers. However, Shadowlands revealed that spirit healers are actually kyrian."

Your whole argument was that nothing got retconned from the chronicles. The answer is yes. Trying to reconcile everything in hindsight does not put it in your favor.

Just like Dreadlords being former undead creatures and becoming, eventually, demons instead of being original demons does not mean nothing was retconned. It does align with them being actual demons, but their origins were changed.

Same with the Val'kyr. a Spirit Healer was not meant to be a Val'kyr who changed into a Kyrian but, a Val'kyr itself.

Saying that anything can happen, therefore, Val'kyr can be Spirit Healers is like saying "well, Gnomes can be Demon Hunters". It's a possiblity but, currently, not set in lore. Therefore, you can't expect Tommyhil622 to refute your claim, because there are endless possibilities in WoW that require refuting. The burden of proving falls on to the person who claims, not the person who asks for a proof.

[huth]

<bullshit>

Sorry, but no. If it was in official lore, i wouldn't even need an argument. If it can be reconciled in hindsight, there's no retcon. And that they had to walk the Path of Ascension first does not change that the Spirit Healer was a Val'kyr. And i'm not arguing there are no retcons here, i'm arguing that this particular information does not contradict the Chronicles.


Also, no, it's not always the claimant, only if the claim is exceptional. Nobody sane will expect proof that apples fall down, and the burden would fall on those denying the claim. Besides, the original claim was that Val'kyr cannot be Spirit Healers.

[Unbelievable]

Sorry, but no. If it was in official lore, i wouldn't even need an argument. If it can be reconciled in hindsight, there's no retcon. And that they had to walk the Path of Ascension first does not change that the Spirit Healer was a Val'kyr. And i'm not arguing there are no retcons here, i'm arguing that this particular information does not contradict the Chronicles.


Also, no, it's not always the claimant, only if the claim is exceptional. Nobody sane will expect proof that apples fall down, and the burden would fall on those denying the claim. Besides, the original claim was that Val'kyr cannot be Spirit Healers.

Nice of you to erase it all and write Bullshit, instead. Shows how mature you are.

"We have met Watchers before, but might not have given them much notice. The Spirit Healers back home when you die? Those are kyrian Watchers.
Cash explains: “We have explored little slices of this before, but ultimately the Spirit Healers are kyrian. One of the kyrian roles is called Watchers and we know them as Spirit Healers on Azeroth and their role is to eternally evaluate souls.
If you aren’t ready, they return you to life, exactly how you see Spirit Healers work in the game."

A deep dive into Bastion, the Shadowlands realm of selflessness and greater purpose

"The Kyrian Covenant—who are the forebears of the Val’kyr and the Spirit Healers—rule over Bastion. They are messengers, couriers, and some of the purest souls in the Shadowlands."

Blizzcon 2019 - World of Warcraft: What's Next

Official, until said otherwise.

Yes, there is. We were led to believe that Spirit Healers are Val'kyr. We found out that not only that they are not Val'kyr but, Kyrian, we also found out that the Val'kyr themselves are based on the Kyrians, Which means that, since they predate the Val'kyr, the Kyrians are the original Spirit Healers and not the Val'kyr who would be turned, by your words, into a Kyrian and would, therefore, be a different race, entirely, before considered a Spirit Healer. Since they do not, themselves, as Val'kyr - not ascended, not changed, not transformed, not had a sex change surgery - but as a Val'kyr themselves, with wings and all of that shit, and their connection to the afterlife of Vrykul, do not ferry the mortal souls to the the Shadowlands afterlife, they are not, and i repeat, not Spirit Healers.

It does Contradict the Chronicles. Because the Chronicles stated that Val'kyr, in their original forms, are Spirit Healers. They didn't hint at an ascension process that a dead Val'kyr, that was sent to the Shadowlands went through. You know why? because every ascended soul would go through it. That would make the Chronicles hint that every mortal soul is a Spirit Healer. It, specifically talked about winged Val'kyr doing that.

Apples falling down is something you can prove with, actual, scientific experimentation. Anything can be a Spirit Healer. That's, hardly, an argument. You have Human and Tauren Ghosts as Spirit Healers in Battlegrounds; Val'kyr Battle-maiden Spirit Healer in Plaguelands: The Scarlet Enclave; A dread raven Spirit Healer in Spires of Arak; Dark Val'kyr Healer Spirit Healer in Helheim; A deep sea murloc Spirit Healer in Azsuna and Island Expeditions; Prime Naaru Spirit Healer in Argus; Bwonsamdi as a Spirit Healer in Zandalar and Spirit Obelisk as a Spirit Healer. Does that make all of them Spirit Healers in lore? or just a game mechanic?

[huth]

Because the Chronicles stated that Val'kyr, in their original forms, are Spirit Healers.

Then post the specific evidence of that instead of going on a long diatribe that ultimately doesn't prove anything because it completely misses the argument. And mind you, it needs to actually state or at least imply that they kept their original form. Which would already contradict the actual look Spirit Healers have had since vanilla.

You have Human and Tauren Ghosts as Spirit Healers in Battlegrounds; Val'kyr Battle-maiden Spirit Healer in Plaguelands: The Scarlet Enclave; A dread raven Spirit Healer in Spires of Arak; Dark Val'kyr Healer Spirit Healer in Helheim; A deep sea murloc Spirit Healer in Azsuna and Island Expeditions; Prime Naaru Spirit Healer in Argus; Bwonsamdi as a Spirit Healer in Zandalar and Spirit Obelisk as a Spirit Healer. Does that make all of them Spirit Healers in lore? or just a game mechanic?

It makes them a replacement for the Spirit Healers you normally encounter. They aren't themselves Spirit Healers. Quite a few of them don't even work the same way and just resurrect you, no questions asked.

It also makes a lot more sense now why you had Naaru on Argus; since it is a primarily demon inhabited world and few of the local mortals would manage to escape with their soul intact, having Watchers stationed there would serve little purpose.

[Unbelievable]

Then post the specific evidence of that instead of going on a long diatribe that ultimately doesn't prove anything because it completely misses the argument. And mind you, it needs to actually state or at least imply that they kept their original form. Which would already contradict the actual look Spirit Healers have had since vanilla.



It makes them a replacement for the Spirit Healers you normally encounter. They aren't themselves Spirit Healers. Quite a few of them don't even work the same way and just resurrect you, no questions asked.

It also makes a lot more sense now why you had Naaru on Argus; since it is a primarily demon inhabited world and few of the local mortals would manage to escape with their soul intact, having Watchers stationed there would serve little purpose.

World of Warcraft: Chronicle Volume 1, pg. 57

You didn't answer the question. Does it make them Spirit Healers in official lore, or is it just a game mechanic?

[huth]

World of Warcraft: Chronicle Volume 1, pg. 57

You didn't answer the question. Does it make them Spirit Healers in official lore, or is it just a game mechanic?

The blurb in the Chronicle does not specify or even imply that they remained as Val'kyr, and even makes it likely that they became Kyrian with their "glimmer of nobility". Technically, it doesn't even say that they're Spirit Healers, it was only implied by them being the only known beings to roughly fit. This actually completely eliminates potential contradiction because the Chronicles don't say they're Spirit Healers in the first place.

So congratulations, you just provided evidence that disproves your own argument.

I did answer your question. They're not Spirit Healers and aren't meant to be Spirit Healers. They're not called Spirit Healers, either. They fill a similar game mechanical purpose, but they wouldn't impact Kyrian lore either way.

[Unbelievable]

The blurb in the Chronicle does not specify or even imply that they remained as Val'kyr, and even makes it likely that they became Kyrian with their "glimmer of nobility". Technically, it doesn't even say that they're Spirit Healers, it was only implied by them being the only known beings to roughly fit. This actually completely eliminates potential contradiction because the Chronicles don't say they're Spirit Healers in the first place.

So congratulations, you just provided evidence that disproves your own argument.

I did answer your question. They're not Spirit Healers and aren't meant to be Spirit Healers. They're not called Spirit Healers, either. They fill a similar game mechanical purpose, but they wouldn't impact Kyrian lore either way.

Guardians of Shadow
"Not all VAL'KYR continued to follow Helya after Odyn's defeat. Some of these spectral beings disappeared into the Shadowlands. The few who still retained a glimmer of nobility in their souls dedicated themselves to watching over the physical world. From within the Shadowlands, these VAL'KYR would at times GUIDE THE DEAD BACK TO THE LAND OF THE LIVING."

They wouldn't be called Val'kyr if they were transformed now, would they?

They wouldn't guide the dead from the Shadowlands back to the living world if they weren't Spirit Healers, would they?

[huth]

They wouldn't be called Val'kyr if they were transformed now, would they?

Of course they would be. Because the text is about what happened to these Val'kyr, and at the time they left they were still Val'kyr. What happened to them afterward isn't mentioned. At best, they'd be called former Val'kyr, but at the time the reader wouldn't have been supposed to be aware of the Kyrians regardless of whether Blizzard already had plans for them, so that'd be risky.

They wouldn't guide the dead from the Shadowlands back to the living world if they weren't Spirit Healers, would they?

Even now we can't be certain about that. Especially with the Naaru and Bwonsamdi doing the same job in some areas. That only Spirit Healers can do so is just an assumption on your side.

[Unbelievable]

Of course they would be. Because the text is about what happened to these Val'kyr, and at the time they left they were still Val'kyr. What happened to them afterward isn't mentioned. At best, they'd be called former Val'kyr, but at the time the reader wouldn't have been supposed to be aware of the Kyrians regardless of whether Blizzard already had plans for them, so that'd be risky.



Even now we can't be certain about that. Especially with the Naaru and Bwonsamdi doing the same job in some areas. That only Spirit Healers can do so is just an assumption on your side.

Why would a Val'kyr, who already has wings, and already guided dead Vrykul to the afterlife, need to go through trials to earn his wings and learn how to guide mortal souls to the Shadowlands? Odyn, already, based them on the Kyrian. There is, absolutely, no need for one to go though the trials and become a winged Kyrian, who ferry souls to the afterlife, when they already did that before and were, already based on the Kyrians themselves.

Lore-wise. You just admitted that these characters are not Spirit Healers lore-wise but, a game mechanic. Lore-wise, it is the job of the Spirit Healers.