[Megathread] Path of Exile

[I Push Buttons]

I think the new craftable watchstones will make it easier... in trade league.
If you are stuck, just buy watchstones to fast forward your progress.

Sounds good in theory, but the way Chris Wilson described it during the ZiggyD interview makes it sound like craftable watchstones are going to be very expensive. His exact words were that they are "super endgame".

[kaminaris]

Haven't looked into it yet, but this is a big turnoff. Don't need more pointlessly complex nonsense in the game.

You say convoluted, I see potential high IQ plays. Fortunately for me, the higher complexity the better game. And I am thankful that instead of making game easier, they are making it harder in terms of know-how. Getting tired of uber low IQ games like diablo. I like games where not only you can shot yourself in foot if you do stupid stuff, you can also shot others in foot like (in)famous anti-support builds.

The only question remains if aura stacker is gon be nerfed to the ground, because if not, then its no-brainer for expansion like this when boss killers will be so powerful.

One thing is certain, this league is meant for poe veterans (was confirmed by some streamers after reveal).

[Edge-]

You say convoluted, I see potential high IQ plays. Fortunately for me, the higher complexity the better game. And I am thankful that instead of making game easier, they are making it harder in terms of know-how. Getting tired of uber low IQ games like diablo. I like games where not only you can shot yourself in foot if you do stupid stuff, you can also shot others in foot like (in)famous anti-support builds.

The only question remains if aura stacker is gon be nerfed to the ground, because if not, then its no-brainer for expansion like this when boss killers will be so powerful.

One thing is certain, this league is meant for poe veterans (was confirmed by some streamers after reveal).

I mean, can we not do the elitest nonsense? Don't get me wrong, I enjoy that PoE has more complexity and it's unarguably infinitely more complex than D3. But we really don't need the snobbery and shit.

Back to the next league having watched the video, I dig most of it. I still don't like the execution of the current atlas progression system, but craftable watchstones sound good, the talent trees are rad as hell, and I'm down with 11 new tilesets. Those look gorgeous.

Heist/Harvest integrations look good and like they're snipping the more annoying bits. And new league looks solid. Not overly convoluted overdesigned mechanics and silliness, just lots more killing and a semi-customizable RNG shop that scales like whoa.

I'm here for this league, and if it's as solid as it looks I'm totes pickin up that elite faithsworn pack. The other pack with the shield looks badass, but that portal effect + character effect is rad as hell.

[kaminaris]

I mean, can we not do the elitest nonsense? Don't get me wrong, I enjoy that PoE has more complexity and it's unarguably infinitely more complex than D3. But we really don't need the snobbery and shit.

Back to the next league having watched the video, I dig most of it. I still don't like the execution of the current atlas progression system, but craftable watchstones sound good, the talent trees are rad as hell, and I'm down with 11 new tilesets. Those look gorgeous.

Heist/Harvest integrations look good and like they're snipping the more annoying bits. And new league looks solid. Not overly convoluted overdesigned mechanics and silliness, just lots more killing and a semi-customizable RNG shop that scales like whoa.

I'm here for this league, and if it's as solid as it looks I'm totes pickin up that elite faithsworn pack. The other pack with the shield looks badass, but that portal effect + character effect is rad as hell.

Elitism has nothing to do with it. You can be a total scrub with 200 iq or you can be braindead elitist. Snob is another incorrect word.

PoE is straight up complex, not convoluted, "necessairly or not" is just opinion.
And that means as long as you are into discovery, you will always find up something interesting, be it interactions, or math equations, playstyles, quirks.

You know why the league will be complex as fuck? Because they revamped ascendencies making a total revolution when it comes to builds, having harvest crafting PLUS heist enchanted items, craftable watchstones, atlas passive trees - yet another thing to theorycraft, maven orb and all of that combined with previous league mechanics.

What I love about poe that no matter what type of player you are, you have to give some thought and can't just braindeadly follow spreashits.

[Baconeggcheese]

Elitism has nothing to do with it. You can be a total scrub with 200 iq or you can be braindead elitist. Snob is another incorrect word.

PoE is straight up complex, not convoluted, "necessairly or not" is just opinion.
And that means as long as you are into discovery, you will always find up something interesting, be it interactions, or math equations, playstyles, quirks.

You know why the league will be complex as fuck? Because they revamped ascendencies making a total revolution when it comes to builds, having harvest crafting PLUS heist enchanted items, craftable watchstones, atlas passive trees - yet another thing to theorycraft, maven orb and all of that combined with previous league mechanics.

What I love about poe that no matter what type of player you are, you have to give some thought and can't just braindeadly follow spreashits.

Your last few posts with this "high iq" stuff is some of the cringiest stuff I've read on mmo-champ in a while my dude. And that's saying something considering this is mmo-champ.

This kind of attitude is probably one of if not thee biggest turn off to PoE's community, people pretending like PoE is some kind of extremely rich deep game when its really just got a bunch of shallow complexity in its systems with some of thee most mindless combat in any ARPG I've played. Its straight up the game I play when I want something I can use to turn my brain off and play on my one monitor while I watch a show on the other.

[bloodwulf]

Your last few posts with this "high iq" stuff is some of the cringiest stuff I've read on mmo-champ in a while my dude. And that's saying something considering this is mmo-champ.

This kind of attitude is probably one of if not thee biggest turn off to PoE's community, people pretending like PoE is some kind of extremely rich deep game when its really just got a bunch of shallow complexity in its systems with some of thee most mindless combat in any ARPG I've played. Its straight up the game I play when I want something I can use to turn my brain off and play on my one monitor while I watch a show on the other.

This exactly. POE is filled with halfassed systems that sometimes interact poorly with each other. I'm at close to 3500 hours into the game and I don't think anything in it is "High IQ". Its tedious at best, brainless at worst, and i love the game for that. I do wish a few systems would get retired to prune down things, but thats a POE2 problem honestly. Nothing about the new atlas in Echos looks difficult.


Let's break it down:
Atlas Passive - People will either pull a guide for max profit or plug in their preferred systems (im the second).
Craftable Watchstones - Great improvement and will hopefully lead to better mapping than sextant\alch spam. Also you can buy them so 90% wont think.
Harvest + Heist - These systems are going to fall into 1/10 maps spawn them, you are going to be doing less of both, and they are more focused now, so you will just have a few more options with your crafting.
Ascendancy reworks - Some top end players will explore new things, 90% will wait for one of 30 guides videos and copy and paste. Most are numerical changes anyways, only a handful really open new builds.
Maven Orb - Most (95%) players will never see one. Look how few kill Sirus. People bitch about map bosses on T16, imagine those same people when challenged with 3. This is a mechanic that will not affect the majority of the base.

Morale of the story, POE is not high IQ, POE just requires a bit of homework. The combat is the easiest out of any ARPGS out there because of how outright broken some builds get.

[Enjeh]

[Edge-]

Damn, the hideout and character effect look dope. Shame I generally suck at/hate going for a lot of the challenges, so it'll likely just be the 12 challenge reward once more.

[Fencers]

PoE community's dream would be to choke on (mostly pointless) talent trees

Fundamentally, yes. But also, no.

[kaminaris]

Your last few posts with this "high iq" stuff is some of the cringiest stuff I've read on mmo-champ in a while my dude. And that's saying something considering this is mmo-champ.

This kind of attitude is probably one of if not thee biggest turn off to PoE's community, people pretending like PoE is some kind of extremely rich deep game when its really just got a bunch of shallow complexity in its systems with some of thee most mindless combat in any ARPG I've played. Its straight up the game I play when I want something I can use to turn my brain off and play on my one monitor while I watch a show on the other.

That is if you never tried to theorycraft anything yourself. And all you did was follow guides.

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This exactly. POE is filled with halfassed systems that sometimes interact poorly with each other. I'm at close to 3500 hours into the game and I don't think anything in it is "High IQ". Its tedious at best, brainless at worst, and i love the game for that. I do wish a few systems would get retired to prune down things, but thats a POE2 problem honestly. Nothing about the new atlas in Echos looks difficult.


Let's break it down:
Atlas Passive - People will either pull a guide for max profit or plug in their preferred systems (im the second).
Craftable Watchstones - Great improvement and will hopefully lead to better mapping than sextant\alch spam. Also you can buy them so 90% wont think.
Harvest + Heist - These systems are going to fall into 1/10 maps spawn them, you are going to be doing less of both, and they are more focused now, so you will just have a few more options with your crafting.
Ascendancy reworks - Some top end players will explore new things, 90% will wait for one of 30 guides videos and copy and paste. Most are numerical changes anyways, only a handful really open new builds.
Maven Orb - Most (95%) players will never see one. Look how few kill Sirus. People bitch about map bosses on T16, imagine those same people when challenged with 3. This is a mechanic that will not affect the majority of the base.

Morale of the story, POE is not high IQ, POE just requires a bit of homework. The combat is the easiest out of any ARPGS out there because of how outright broken some builds get.

Ah come on, your 95% is taken straight out of ass. Even most lazy ass friends of mine, playing poe, has given some thoughts about system/builds. And managed to down sirus.

And by the way, this is exactly why poe is so good and keeps growing. It is far from hard, can be done with almost any builds as long as you given some thought to it.
You don't even need to have some super skills.

But judging from your post i am pretty sure you are not their target audience.

[Fencers]

The notion that people are all playing POE via "guides" is pretty absurd. But even if everyone did, that would not have any bearing on the complexity of the systems. It would be quite something to find modern games with greater complexity in gameplay system than POE. I certainly would like to know of and play these games just out of intellectual curiosity alone.

However, I am NOT getting on board with this bizarre "high/low IQ" bs either. It's just foolish to lump game design, challenge, or capability together like a singular thing. One can design a challenging game that is not complex, a complex game that is not challenging, et cetera. None of that stuff is the same, even when they inform one another.

[NoiseTank13]

The funny thing about people who boast being 'high IQ' is that they usually aren't.

[Marrilaife]

Damn, the hideout and character effect look dope. Shame I generally suck at/hate going for a lot of the challenges, so it'll likely just be the 12 challenge reward once more.

To be honest for me it seems the biggest factor whether I'll complete challenges or not is which build I pick, so I tend to experiment with builds that might end up crap in the leagues that have meh rewards, and then play 1 favourite build in leagues where I'm trying to push for challenges.

[Baconeggcheese]

That is if you never tried to theorycraft anything yourself. And all you did was follow guides.

No that's if you actually spend 5 minutes looking at any of its systems.

Its not complicated to take all the physical damage rolls on your equipment for your physical damage build. Its not complicated to take the 2h weapon nodes and the physical damage nodes and the armor nodes on your build that uses armor a 2h weapon and physical damage...

Its really not a complex game, it just appears that way with a shit ton of convoluted systems and stretching things out visually like the passive skill tree which is super simple but made to look grandiose by spreading everything out.

Once you get to the part that isn't super clear you start using tools like PoB which is doing the work for you.


AND EVEN IF YOU DON'T OPTIMIZE GAMES STILL PISS EASY CAUSE THE COMBATS SHALLOW AS HELL AND WE MASSIVELY OUTSCALE EVERYTHING WE FIGHT. You need hundreds of thousands of DPS to kill everything in the game and you can get tens of millions.

Games not hard my dude, people just like to stroke their own egos pretending like it is.

[Fencers]

Thinking a little more on this, I think I dont mind the new atlas skill trees too much. From a high level, the idea of influencing more directly the content you want to play at endgame alongside the watch stones. Especially being able to (if possible) fine tune that content more as you progress through atlas and the character.

That's a slick concept. Where I have concern is in the oblaiquness of the system so as to not devalue the watch stones or the rewards.

Though I haven’t looked at all.the item previews yet. I like the idea of a meta progression skill tree with a bit of deterministic game type.

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Though I am still.looking forward to the Ritual league. I think sounds great and a lot of fun to play with my husband.

And another thing, why didn't just make Harvest like that from the get-go? That league was so tedious, the revamp already seems like a huge upgrade.

Less entushed about Heisting. Again.

Also, also. I need that mobile game already.

[kaminaris]

No that's if you actually spend 5 minutes looking at any of its systems.

Its not complicated to take all the physical damage rolls on your equipment for your physical damage build. Its not complicated to take the 2h weapon nodes and the physical damage nodes and the armor nodes on your build that uses armor a 2h weapon and physical damage...

Its really not a complex game, it just appears that way with a shit ton of convoluted systems and stretching things out visually like the passive skill tree which is super simple but made to look grandiose by spreading everything out.

Once you get to the part that isn't super clear you start using tools like PoB which is doing the work for you.


AND EVEN IF YOU DON'T OPTIMIZE GAMES STILL PISS EASY CAUSE THE COMBATS SHALLOW AS HELL AND WE MASSIVELY OUTSCALE EVERYTHING WE FIGHT. You need hundreds of thousands of DPS to kill everything in the game and you can get tens of millions.

Games not hard my dude, people just like to stroke their own egos pretending like it is.

Ah, so you didn't. Judging from this:

Its not complicated to take all the physical damage rolls on your equipment for your physical damage build. Its not complicated to take the 2h weapon nodes and the physical damage nodes and the armor nodes on your build that uses armor a 2h weapon and physical damage...

I can safely say you haven't actually theorycrafted stuff yourself. PoB doesn't do anything for you. Its a planner, calculator. Not automated build generator.
And no, you don't take every physical node on items for phys build, its not so simple. No, you don't take every phys node on the tree, that is not so simple.

It is complex game, no matter how much you scream. You simply didn't have opportunity to dabble in that.
99.9% people will fail on making build out of scratch without looking at any guide or poe.ninja that reaches 10M dps.
Not to mention high iq (yes fucking uber high iq) builds like aura stackers or int stackers, negative resists builds, anti-support builds, deep delve rage builds or even supports.

I was looking at pathofmatt streams where people literally paid him to "fix" their aura stacker builds. It was amazing how simple concepts were suddenly hard for normal people.
Do I take 25% aura with 6 passives or 35% with 5 passives?
Do I need more reduced aura reserved?
Should I grab rings with Anger?

So no, you are furthest from truth that any man has ever been.

On the other hand we have wow with gear that can be literally represented by numbers.

[SirCowdog]

Games not hard my dude, people just like to stroke their own egos pretending like it is.

Right up until the point where you've been cruising on EZ mode amd then suddenly start dying from 100 to 0 in a matter of milliseconds with no explanation of how or why.


That's the only thing that bothers me: No logs or replay or other tool to figure out WTF just happened.

[Baconeggcheese]

Right up until the point where you've been cruising on EZ mode amd then suddenly start dying from 100 to 0 in a matter of milliseconds with no explanation of how or why.


That's the only thing that bothers me: No logs or replay or other tool to figure out WTF just happened.

You just max out your resists and invest in an arbitrary amount of health and you're pretty solid there. There's never a point where you can guarantee you don't get insta-gibbed by something you couldn't react to. Its one of the games biggest flaws.

I can safely say you haven't actually theorycrafted stuff yourself. PoB doesn't do anything for you. Its a planner, calculator. Not automated build generator.
And no, you don't take every physical node on items for phys build, its not so simple. No, you don't take every phys node on the tree, that is not so simple.

Lol my dude what? It does the math for you... do you not know how to use tools?

[Cracked]

You just max out your resists and invest in an arbitrary amount of health and you're pretty solid there. There's never a point where you can guarantee you don't get insta-gibbed by something you couldn't react to. Its one of the games biggest flaws.

This is essentially why I never play end game of a league. It turns into minutes where nothing but 1 ability spam happens while you ignore every mechanic, and then you make a small mistake on one ability that does matter (good luck knowing which one that is in new content) and you just die.

It's not good design, it's not fun, it's not exciting. It's just dumb.

[Millyraynge]

Games not hard my dude, people just like to stroke their own egos pretending like it is.

I'll try to translate the term "difficulty" for you just for the case you may understand what it means. Difficulty describes a feeling of resistance what is keeping you from reaching your goals. This feel of resistance is a very individual one.

PoB is just like a calculator which requires advanced knowledge about pretty much any item, synergy, talents, effects, buffs, debuffs etc. Without correct input, PoB is a useless tool.

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This is essentially why I never play end game of a league. It turns into minutes where nothing but 1 ability spam happens while you ignore every mechanic, and then you make a small mistake on one ability that does matter (good luck knowing which one that is in new content) and you just die.

It's not good design, it's not fun, it's not exciting. It's just dumb.

You can setup your character the way you want. You can play a build which requires more buttons to press, forces you to avoid more abilites, but is resistant towards one hits.

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The notion that people are all playing POE via "guides" is pretty absurd. But even if everyone did, that would not have any bearing on the complexity of the systems. It would be quite something to find modern games with greater complexity in gameplay system than POE. I certainly would like to know of and play these games just out of intellectual curiosity alone.

So much this! This game is not about to adapt a pre-made build without even knowing what is going on. The real magic comes from figuring out your own build, especially in combination with SSF. Once you manage to beat the very end game with a melee and range class in SSF you are an actual graduated PoE Player.