M: Sire Denathrius 52 (0.16%)

[blackbird1205]

Gear is really a perk by now in raids. Although I only raid heroic currently, I got my first item dropped after 16 accumulated kills. And guess what, it was something useless and got disenchanted.

[garicasha]

People have been posting "WoW is dying" since AQ40.

heh remember when LotR was about to launch????

[Rusken]

Really don't get the decision to make M+ row the only one that give you weekly rewards above the ilvl the content itself drops. Both PvP and Raiding should do the same or M+ should be reduced to be similar to the other options.

It's Blizz further forcing M+ down everyone's throat as the core endgame progression. People bitched for so long about not having enough free time to raid so Blizz made a system that rewards you the most for playing less and made it way easier than the system that requires putting several hours into each week. Now the only real reason to raid is if you actually enjoy the raiding experience.

If it were up to me, I'd cap M+ Vault rewards at Heroic Raid levels, it's a bit silly that you can take 30 minutes to run through a 10 and get almost Mythic level gear for it. I'd then cap PvP gear to around Normal raid levels, but bring back Resilience or make Vers a PvP-only stat. PvE'ers should never have to do PvP for any reason, let alone getting the highest ilvl gear possible in the first week. PvP'ers can live in their own PvP bubble and if they want to be useful in PvE they can do PvE.

[Bigbazz]

Mythic raiding is too hard for the majority, to the detriment of the game. It took the best and most dedicated players in the world months of preparation and hundreds of millions in gold to clear the raid. Participation drops when the content is too hard because people just do not have the time required, even if they had the skill and the BOE gold to get their ilvl above the threshold, which obviously most people don't.

But this isn't a new thing, Mythic raiding has been this way for years. I think it's a shame really because there is a void between Mythic and Heroic that could be filled at the detriment to the world first race and absolute most dedicated players but very much to the advantage of all the players whose guilds die 1/3 to 1/2 way through mythic raid tiers.

It's good that they nerfed the raids, I don't understand why they don't just use the solution they already figured out a over a decade ago with ICC though.

[Malefic]

We are almost halfway through this raid tier and there have only been 52 Sire kills to date. This is a very big disappointment in participation numbers and a little ominous for the future of Mythic raiding.

It is clear that the direction Blizzard has taken with raid loot this tier has not worked. When players are guaranteed a piece of 226 loot every week by doing just 1 dungeon, it is very difficult to get excited over managing the logistics of a raid day after day, week after week, then raiding hours and hours on end for nothing most of the time. Now with dungeons significantly nerfed, it'll only encourage this behaviour more.

On top of all that, Mythic raiders have been denied the Master Loot option and now Bonus Roll options. However the raids still require the gear which just isn't dropping. It truly is a miserable experience to be Mythic raiding right now.

I really hope that Blizzard evaluates the rewards structure for 9.1 so that this crisis is not repeated before it does long term harm to Mythic raiding.

Half way through the raid tier on what basis? It's been just over 6 weeks of Mythic.

[Weeps]

I'll prob get nasty replies but saying it anyway.

Mythic is overtuned. It should be the difficulty that Mythic Emerald Nightmare was.

[OokOok]

I'll prob get nasty replies but saying it anyway.

Mythic is overtuned. It should be the difficulty that Mythic Emerald Nightmare was.

You mean it should be tuned so that the first day it's released it's cleared?

Yeah you should get nasty replies, you're an idiot.

[Weeps]

Mythic raiding is too hard for the majority, to the detriment of the game. It took the best and most dedicated players in the world months of preparation and hundreds of millions in gold to clear the raid. Participation drops when the content is too hard because people just do not have the time required, even if they had the skill and the BOE gold to get their ilvl above the threshold, which obviously most people don't.

But this isn't a new thing, Mythic raiding has been this way for years. I think it's a shame really because there is a void between Mythic and Heroic that could be filled at the detriment to the world first race and absolute most dedicated players but very much to the advantage of all the players whose guilds die 1/3 to 1/2 way through mythic raid tiers.

It's good that they nerfed the raids, I don't understand why they don't just use the solution they already figured out a over a decade ago with ICC though.

Case in point: Classic WoW. The raids are stupid easy but was wildly popular. Raiding difficulty should not be extreme. It should be that 30-40% of raiders can clear it if they so desire.

[Edlarel]

I'll prob get nasty replies but saying it anyway.

Mythic is overtuned. It should be the difficulty that Mythic Emerald Nightmare was.

Except Nathria isn't the EN equivalent, it's the Nighthold Equivalent, so it should be tuned as such. The truth of it is we didn't get an EN raid this expansion. Not every expansion needs the same treadmill of entry raid to make it easier to get to actual raid. That's what the covenant campaign did for us, giving us gear that leads right up to the point of running normal (or honestly beginning heroic because it's only 3-10 ilevels from normal already).

[Weeps]

You mean it should be tuned so that the first day it's released it's cleared?

Yeah you should get nasty replies, you're an idiot.

I'm such an idiot, sure. Let me make an assumption about you:

You spend 12+ hours on a video game, ignoring life duties and self-improvement because you want to rule in a MMORPG. You get a pat on the back, buddy! You're HARDCORE!! WOOT!!!

MMOs are Lulz in difficulty. Always has been. It's a battle of attrition via hours of no-lifing. Making Mythic only viable for 5% is stupid to me, and maybe not stupid to you because you want that uber title and achievement... such a hardcore player, you. You have my undying respect, I salute you.

- - - Updated - - -

Except Nathria isn't the EN equivalent, it's the Nighthold Equivalent, so it should be tuned as such. The truth of it is we didn't get an EN raid this expansion. Not every expansion needs the same treadmill of entry raid to make it easier to get to actual raid. That's what the covenant campaign did for us, giving us gear that leads right up to the point of running normal (or honestly beginning heroic because it's only 3-10 ilevels from normal already).

Nope. It should never take 6+ weeks to full clear a raid. That's too much time sink. Pass. Not interested therefore I don't.

[RoKPaNda]

Stop, lol.

Is this overtuned for a first raid? Probably. Is Mythic raiding suddenly not rewarding? No. I'm telling you that as someone who thinks that their loot changes were stupid, Mythic raiding isn't suddenly not rewarding. Oh boy you get a single piece of Mythic level gear each week, and so do I, and every single piece that drops for me is that level, where you're just getting that one piece.

Mythic raid participation levels are always going to be abysmal. That's by design. It's a raid difficulty designed for those of us that are an extreme minority so that the other raid difficulties can be fun for the rest of the playerbase. If we didn't have our own raid difficulty we'd either not have fun because the raids were tuned for normal human beings or the normal human beings wouldn't have fun because the raids were tuned for us.

[Weeps]

Stop, lol.

Is this overtuned for a first raid? Probably. Is Mythic raiding suddenly not rewarding? No. I'm telling you that as someone who thinks that their loot changes were stupid, Mythic raiding isn't suddenly not rewarding. Oh boy you get a single piece of Mythic level gear each week, and so do I, and every single piece that drops for me is that level, where you're just getting that one piece.

Mythic raid participation levels are always going to be abysmal. That's by design. It's a raid difficulty designed for those of us that are an extreme minority so that the other raid difficulties can be fun for the rest of the playerbase. If we didn't have our own raid difficulty we'd either not have fun because the raids were tuned for normal human beings or the normal human beings wouldn't have fun because the raids were tuned for us.

Bad bad bad bad BAD business model.

Would you want to open a restaurant that caters to an extreme minority in USA, using the Brunei island diet? No.
Would you want to open a gaming business that caters to only 5% of people in the gaming industry? No.

it is just mind blowing stupid. If the uber hardcores clear it in a week, good for them if it is "too easy." The games money does not come from them. They are the smallest end of the spectrum in financial intake for Blizzard.

Would you want to have a company like Blizzard chucking out low quality shit because they devote inordinate amount of time that only 5% of players will see? No. Devote that attention away from mythic

[A Chozo]

We are almost halfway through this raid tier and there have only been 52 Sire kills to date. This is a very big disappointment in participation numbers and a little ominous for the future of Mythic raiding.

It is clear that the direction Blizzard has taken with raid loot this tier has not worked. When players are guaranteed a piece of 226 loot every week by doing just 1 dungeon, it is very difficult to get excited over managing the logistics of a raid day after day, week after week, then raiding hours and hours on end for nothing most of the time. Now with dungeons significantly nerfed, it'll only encourage this behaviour more.

On top of all that, Mythic raiders have been denied the Master Loot option and now Bonus Roll options. However the raids still require the gear which just isn't dropping. It truly is a miserable experience to be Mythic raiding right now.

I really hope that Blizzard evaluates the rewards structure for 9.1 so that this crisis is not repeated before it does long term harm to Mythic raiding.

Oh please, Mythic raiders isn't unpopular because muh loot - mythic raiders who clear the raid aren't in for the loot, they are in for bragging rights. You linking the unpopularity of the cutting edge mode to the new loot model is just weird projection.

Mythic Raiding will be forever unpopular because the skill ceiling is too high for almost all players, the logistics to organize it are bogus, and it's just the same raid as before but harder so it's not interesting at all. It's abysmal by design, and only a extreme minority cares about it. Every other player is happy with the other difficulties (or a lunatic that funds their own misfortune then come crying at the forums but we don't talk about those people).

It's like playing WoW, but worse = hence unpopular as fuck. The only way to make it more accessible is if it were flex and easier, but then that would just be Heroic with better loot.

[Orwell7]

Bad bad bad bad BAD business model.

Would you want to open a restaurant that caters to an extreme minority in USA, using the Brunei island diet? No.
Would you want to open a gaming business that caters to only 5% of people in the gaming industry? No.

it is just mind blowing stupid. If the uber hardcores clear it in a week, good for them if it is "too easy." The games money does not come from them. They are the smallest end of the spectrum in financial intake for Blizzard.

Would you want to have a company like Blizzard chucking out low quality shit because they devote inordinate amount of time that only 5% of players will see? No. Devote that attention away from mythic

Duh, there ARE restaurants that only server the best-of-the-best in ridiculous prices.

[Clouds2]

Bad bad bad bad BAD business model.

Would you want to open a restaurant that caters to an extreme minority in USA, using the Brunei island diet? No.
Would you want to open a gaming business that caters to only 5% of people in the gaming industry? No.

it is just mind blowing stupid. If the uber hardcores clear it in a week, good for them if it is "too easy." The games money does not come from them. They are the smallest end of the spectrum in financial intake for Blizzard.

Would you want to have a company like Blizzard chucking out low quality shit because they devote inordinate amount of time that only 5% of players will see? No. Devote that attention away from mythic

Well, WoW has been a stable game for what, 15 years? It is probably the most successful MMO of all time (arguably of course). Clearly their business model can’t be too bad bad bad bad just because Joe that works at the coffee shop said so. You may think it is a bad business model, but they are making millions upon millions so is it really a bad model?

[procne]

Bad bad bad bad BAD business model.

Would you want to open a restaurant that caters to an extreme minority in USA, using the Brunei island diet? No.
Would you want to open a gaming business that caters to only 5% of people in the gaming industry? No.

it is just mind blowing stupid. If the uber hardcores clear it in a week, good for them if it is "too easy." The games money does not come from them. They are the smallest end of the spectrum in financial intake for Blizzard.

Would you want to have a company like Blizzard chucking out low quality shit because they devote inordinate amount of time that only 5% of players will see? No. Devote that attention away from mythic

Bad bad bad analogy. If anything, then the mythic difficulty is not the whole restaurant, it's just a part of the menu. Together with heroic, normal, LFG. It's catering to varied clientele.

[Argorwal]

Bad bad bad bad BAD business model.

Would you want to open a restaurant that caters to an extreme minority in USA, using the Brunei island diet? No.
Would you want to open a gaming business that caters to only 5% of people in the gaming industry? No.

it is just mind blowing stupid. If the uber hardcores clear it in a week, good for them if it is "too easy." The games money does not come from them. They are the smallest end of the spectrum in financial intake for Blizzard.

Would you want to have a company like Blizzard chucking out low quality shit because they devote inordinate amount of time that only 5% of players will see? No. Devote that attention away from mythic

Maybe that is why the raids have 4 difficulties? It caters to a wide audiance.

You're acting like Mythic is the only one.

[Weeps]

Duh, there ARE restaurants that only server the best-of-the-best in ridiculous prices.

And they don't make nearly as much as regular restaurants in a year. For example, McDonalds, Panera Bread, Sarku Japan, BK, Wendys, etc. They cater to ~80% of Americans. That serves my point even moreso.

https://www.chowhound.com/post/money...aurants-624399

- - - Updated - - -

Maybe that is why the raids have 4 difficulties? It caters to a wide audiance.

You're acting like Mythic is the only one.

For MoP, it was the first time raid difficulties were scaled: Normal became LFR/Flex, Heroic became Normal. Mythic was heroic.

I would delete normal as it stands since that happened. Normal should be heroic. Mythic should be heroic. Make normal a bit harder, make heroic a bit harder. WoW has shown tremendous success with this model (WOTLK anyone?) 25 man or 10 man. Nobody cried.

[Merlunie]

This isn't quite true. The meta of wipe, release, spawn 20 meters away, eat and pull in 30 seconds only came with Legion. It wasn't quite common to have over 100 wipes on bosses until WoD either.

It's completely legitimate to prefer easier content, even in raiding. Not everyone considers it a challenge to stick around while slower people learn mechanics. Casual guilds always overgear the content in any case. I now prefer easier content, even though I used to raid world first. Why? Because I can do easier content whenever it suits me, not whenever the guild agrees (and thus forces people) to be online.

Yeah the “it wasn’t common to have over 100 wipes on a boss before WOD” is not true. TF?

[Wries]

Really don't get the decision to make M+ row the only one that give you weekly rewards above the ilvl the content itself drops. Both PvP and Raiding should do the same or M+ should be reduced to be similar to the other options.

The basic idea is that completing a m+14 really is (or rather.. was) deserving of 226 loot. But since the activity is infinitely repeatable they put this hard cap of below-heroic ilvl from dungeons, with the idea that the great vault will reward a dungeoneer in a steady trickle instead.