If they made a new class in the future, what would it be?

[Ielenia]

But you don't know that for sure, that's entirely an assumption.

Except I'm not stating that as a fact, but positing it as a possibility. You, on the other hand, are stating it as a fact by calling the hunter class a spellcaster.

Also what about Chimera shot? Chimera shot splits into two magical arrows, one nature based and the other frost.

The hunter fires two arrows: one tipped with poison, the other with a frost-imbued head. Both he bought ahead of time.

They don't count for Paladins because Shadow magic runs against their class theme. Paladins won't be using Shadow abilities when we leave Shadowlands next expansion.

And necromancy runs against the hunter class theme, but that doesn't stop you from using the covenant abilities. Again, you're trying to eat your cake and still have it. You can't do that.

However, Hunters using magical arrows is a mainstay of the class, and has been since vanilla, and the class has a long history of using shadow-based arrow abilities,

And those can be explained as those magical arrows being stuff the hunter either buys or use magical reagents to produce, while having no magical skills of their own.

so those covenants are not counter to the established theme of the class, and quite frankly could be carried over into future expansions.

No. They don't count. Because it's still cherry-picking. It's still double-standards. They are still expansions features that won't exist after this expansion. That is the qualifier you put for the Paladin covenant abilities.

Wouldn't a Hunter learning how to tame undead beasts via a tome they obtained from Necromancers in the realm of the dead count as Hunters learning and using Necromancy?

No. No, it does not count. That's like saying creating a robe by stitching already enchanted pieces of cloth together makes you an enchanter. Taming a beast is not necromancy, regardless if the pet is alive or undead.

Why wouldn't it?

Because we're not talking Blizzard, here. We're talking "we". And we don't need anything. Remember: "need" is different than "want".

[Teriz]

It's also weird to say that the Dark Ranger and Night Warrior are integrated into the classes when barely any of their abilities or attributes appear in any class, and the Hunter class in WoW, mainly, comes from the WC3 Beastmaster, Archer/Sharpshooter and Headhunter/Sapper, not so much from the Dark Ranger, Priestess of the Moon or the Priestess of the Tide.

Barely? Dark Ranger: Black Arrow: Hunter class from WotLK until the end of Legion. Drain Life: Warlock Class. Silence: Priest Class. Charm: Pretty much the same as Mind Control and the various control abilities throughout the classes (Control Undead, Control Demon, Control Elemental, etc.).

There was never a Night Warrior WC3 hero. If what we're seeing out of Tyrande is any indication, Nightwarriors are simply a mashup of Hunters and Balance Druids.

Priestess of the Moon: Searing Arrow: Exotic Munitions. Sentinel: Hunters had it in Legion. Trueshot Aura: Hunters still have it. Starfall: Druid class

Sea Witch: Frost Arrow: Hunters have a Frost arrow via Chimera shot. Mana Shield: Mages. Forked Lightning: Shaman. Tornado: Not implemented but I'd give it to Druids because of Typhoon, Ursol's Vortex, and Cyclone.

Again, these concepts are thoroughly integrated into the existing class lineup.

The Tinker and the Alchemist were integrated into the WoW profession system though. So if there's really none of them in the professions, why would their concepts be integrated into the Engineering and Alchemy professions? Not only are they refered to as the technological and chemical professions, they are also regarded as such in lore.

Where's the evidence? Healing Stream is an ability within WoW, why isn't it in the Alchemy profession? We have multiple Tinker NPC abilities in WoW, why are none of them in the profession? If the Tinker and Alchemist hero were integrated into the professions, why aren't their abilities integrated as well? Using wordplay with names and titles don't help your case because we had Brewmaster vendors and titles before MoP and we ended up with the Brewmaster spec within the Monk class anyway.

Consider if this was 2013/2017 and we knew that the upcoming expansion was going to be set in alternate draenor, kul tiras and zandalar, and we'd be fighting against, literal, army of technology-users. We'd have literal bosses with mechanical themes and abilities.

And to top it all off, the expansion starts with a military battle, using technological devices because Garrosh took goblins plans to alternate draenor (hey, there's a reason for a Tinker class right there).

Would anyone seriously say that a Tinker class wouldn't fit such an expansion? If a Tinker doesn't fit an expansion like that, one has to truly ask what expansion would a Tinker fit into?

While we're at it, you can add Alchemists to that question as well. I simply don't see a better set up, given the events of WoD and BfA, an opening for Alchemists given explosives themes of the expansions, and the contribution of war science to those expansions. Again, if Alchemists aren't fit to be introduced in those expansions, when would they be?

For two reasons;

1. The Iron Horde wasn't more advanced than the MU Alliance or Horde. They were simply a massive military force that used iron and steel instead of demonic magic. Hell some of them rode on the back of wolves. Warlords of Draenor wasn't about technology, it was about Orcs and Draenei in an alternate Draenor. Blizzard themselves mentioned this when they announced the expansion. Their goal was for players to experience fighting the old Orc warlords that they probably didn't get to fight in WC1 and 2. Why would you need Tinkers to fight against inferior technology?

2. WoD took place right after Mists of Pandaria where they had just released the Monk class. Blizzard wasn't going to release another class right after MoP. Further, we now know that they were preparing the Demon Hunter class as the follow up class to Monks given the hints they gave us in MoP.

This isn't the scenario we have now with Shadowlands and the lack of a Dark Ranger or Necromancer class. SL slots in with the standard class integration, and the theme of the entire expansion fits Necromancers and Dark Rangers perfectly.

When you think about it, a Tinker class wouldn't be much different than what we currently have in the engineering profession. It'd just be a "whackier" variant, which is more cosmetic than mechanical.

A class would be far different than a profession. For starters you don't have to search the world for mats to build you items.

Take something as "simple" as a Gnomish Flame Turret for example. People like to use this item as an example of how the engineering profession does the same thing a Tinker does. Well, let's see what it take to build this device.

In order to construct this device you need an adamantite frame, 2 handful of fel bolts, 3 elemental blasting powder, and Fel iron casting.


So how do you get an Adamantite frame? You need 4 adamantite bars and 1 primal earth.

How do you get 4 adamantite bars? You need to smelt 8 Adamantite Ores.

How do you get ONE Adamantite Ore? You need 9 adamantite Nuggets and a level 25 in Jewelcrafting (so in reality, you need over 70 nuggets).

How do you get adamantite nuggets? You have to mine Adamantite deposits which are found in various parts of outland, and you need mining to mine it.

All of that to get 1 adamantite frame, and we haven't even gotten to the other three regents. You do all of that to create 3 Flame turrets that last 45 seconds each and do piddling damage. When you use up your turrets you're going to need to start this process all over again.....

Meanwhile, a Tinker class would just drop their turrets on a cool down and those turrets would level with the Tinker and be enhanced by passives, stats, and other abilities.

The idea that a profession plays anything like a class is pure nonsense.

[Ielenia]

Barely? Dark Ranger: Black Arrow: Hunter class from WotLK until the end of Legion. Drain Life: Warlock Class. Silence: Priest Class. Charm: Pretty much the same as Mind Control and the various control abilities throughout the classes (Control Undead, Control Demon, Control Elemental, etc.).

But abilities themselves don't make classes. For example: you wouldn't go around saying the mage class is WoW's representative of the WC3 Blademaster unit, because it has the "Mirror Image" ability, now would you?

[Teriz]

But they don't. Heck, the Ranger has more healing ability and the WoW Hunter doesn't have a healing spec.

That must be only the case in DnD then, because in Final Fantasy, RO, Diablo 3 and other games, Monks are far better healers than Archers/Rangers/Hunters.

I'm absolutely not disagreeing. All I'm saying is that's exactly what they did. From scratch. They took a super specific concept like the Brewmaster and broadened it, making a healing spec for the class. They just didn't have anything within their game universe to base it on, which is perfectly fine.

I would argue that they took the specific Brewmaster concept, placed it within the larger Monk archetype and went from there. Considering that the Brewmaster in WC3 was an extremely tacky hero, it was obvious that it would be the tank spec. IMO, Windwalker and Mistweaver specs are layups due to the your typical Monk RPG class trope.

Which does not tank.

You can direct your water elemental to attack first, and enemies will attack it while you can then hit them with a stronger spell. The nature of Frost magic makes this work quite well.

I'm not getting your point then. What you said was: "As a ranged class, you summon minions to tank for you in every case." Which really sounds like you're saying that every ranged class has a tank minion, which is clearly not the case. Regardkess, there's no reason that a Dark Ranger would need something of the sort. They could very easily give it a slew of mobility and/or utility defensive options, much like the Rogue. Black Arrow could very well be a part of that (say it summons a spirit that causes an adverse effect depending on some other criteria, like if you spend X amount of a resource it slows, X amount disorients, X amount stuns, etc...

No, I was saying that every ranged spec that summons a consistent or permanent minion uses that minion for tanking purposes. Black Arrow would count as a persistent minion generating ability. Sorry if I misspoke.

Or it could very well be. Maybe they use a variety of life drains so that while they take a ton of damage, they also heal it back up. There's a lot of ways to give them survivability.

Life Drain runs counter to the play style of a bow class.

The sheer concept of an undead type of archer that uses necromancy and dark magics. It need not mirror anything from another source, or it could take inspiration but make sweeping changes. There are lots of options.

Forsaken Hunters do that by default. They can tame undead animals which is a form of necromancy and Hunters can use a variety of poisons. What's the difference between a "Dark Ranger" summoning a skeleton to tank for it and a Forsaken Hunter summoning a skeletal hound to tank for it? What's the difference between a Dark Ranger hitting a target with Shadow Daggers and a Forsaken Hunter hitting a target with Death Chakram? What's the difference between a Dark Ranger hiding in the shadows and a Forsaken Hunter using Camouflage?

It's literally the same thing.

Yup, and if you want you can absolutely ignore all of it. You can boil it down to a concept and build it from the ground up to suit your needs. You can totally ignore everything from WC3 and HotS if you want to. You can use them as a spiritual inspiration if you want to. You can change the mechanics completely. You can take the ability names from WC3 and then add on completely different mechanics. You can make it a combo class like the Rogue if you want. You can make it a builder/spender like the old Demo Warlock if you want. You can give it a brand new mechanic unique to WoW if you want. All of this is more than possible.

The only way the class is too much like a Hunter is if you purposely make it that way, and there's nothing that says you have to do that.

Well we can ignore WC3 and HotS if we want, but going by Blizzard's past three class inclusions, they're not ignoring WC3 or HotS at all.

[razorpax]

That is reminiscent of Demon Hunter.



And that is reminiscent of Balance Druids.



What would that be based on? We've only seen Tyrande tear through people. Further we've seen her shoot arrows, so why is there no ranged spec?



Actually their entire spec is tied to Elune. That's the theme behind Astral magic which is the basis of the Balance spec.



And it also kills the person who manifests its power. How would this be widespread enough to become a player class? Also what would be the point of this when we have a Balance Druid spec already using lunar based spells? What's the selling point here? More badass elves using glaives? We already have Demon Hunters for that.



True, but at this point in WoW's life cycle we have a good idea of how Blizzard structures classes. A class that is essentially a Demon Hunter using lunar power instead of fel power isn't going to become a class.

- - - Updated - - -



There's also Chimera Shot and Binding Shot. Binding Shot is literally called a Magical Arrow. There's also Resonating Arrow, which despite being a covenant ability, is still a magical arrow ability.



It is a signature ability for Dark Rangers since they had it in both WC3 and HotS. While the Hunter no longer has it, Hunters do currently have Flayed Shot and Death Chakram, two abilities that both do Shadow damage. In fact, Death Chakram bears a striking resemblance to Sylvanas' Shadow Dagger ability in HotS.



Hunters had the ability for almost a decade, and only lost it because it was redundant. How does it not fit the Hunter class?



Considering that there is a potential user base of new and retired players who are not currently playing WoW because of a lack of a technology class, and that there are multiple WoW races who are technology based but have no class that matches their theme, I would say that a tech class is very much needed.

Well if a ranged spec used bows you would say it’s too much like a hunter

She hasn’t used a bow since gaining her glaives. The arrow that hit nathanos was fired by her “daughter”

I’m not gonna get into a circle jerk of me saying how it could work just for you to act like it’s not a possibility because you are just like me, a nerd with no psychic powers or authority in blizzard.

The night warrior power kills whoever holds it for too long but maybe if you paid attention to new lore (I understand that anything post-wc3 is hard for you) then you would know they found a way to possibly stop that



Night warrior is a possible class
Tinker is possible
Dragonsworn is possible
Necromancer is possible
Murloc tamer is possible

The fact is literally anything is possible heck they made an April fools joke a main race of an expansion

[Teriz]

Except I'm not stating that as a fact, but positing it as a possibility. You, on the other hand, are stating it as a fact by calling the hunter class a spellcaster.

But that speculation is meaningless. The fact of the matter is that Hunters are using magical arrows, which makes them users of magic.

The hunter fires two arrows: one tipped with poison, the other with a frost-imbued head. Both he bought ahead of time.

Again, that is meaningless speculation. Head canon in fact.

And necromancy runs against the hunter class theme, but that doesn't stop you from using the covenant abilities. Again, you're trying to eat your cake and still have it. You can't do that.

It doesn't because Hunters learn Necromancy in order to tame undead beasts, and Black Arrow was a Necromantic Hunter ability in legion.

And those can be explained as those magical arrows being stuff the hunter either buys or use magical reagents to produce, while having no magical skills of their own.

This is head canon. The only thing we know for a fact is that Hunters use magical arrows.

No. They don't count. Because it's still cherry-picking. It's still double-standards. They are still expansions features that won't exist after this expansion. That is the qualifier you put for the Paladin covenant abilities.

Like I said, it's not a double standard because using shadow magic goes against the concept of a Paladin. Using Shadow and Arcane arrows have been a part of the Hunter class for multiple expansions. Again, these are facts.

No. No, it does not count. That's like saying creating a robe by stitching already enchanted pieces of cloth together makes you an enchanter. Taming a beast is not necromancy, regardless if the pet is alive or undead.

In order to tame an undead beast you have to obtain a tome from Necromancers in the realm of the dead in the land of Necromancy. Reading a tome in order to control an undead creature is the literal definition of Necromancy.

Because we're not talking Blizzard, here. We're talking "we". And we don't need anything. Remember: "need" is different than "want".

I'm talking Blizzard because it's their game and they determine the need. Blizzard always needs more subscribers to WoW, and the technology base races definitely need a technology class because they're sorely out of place without one.

- - - Updated - - -

Well if a ranged spec used bows you would say it’s too much like a hunter

She hasn’t used a bow since gaining her glaives. The arrow that hit nathanos was fired by her “daughter”

I’m not gonna get into a circle jerk of me saying how it could work just for you to act like it’s not a possibility because you are just like me, a nerd with no psychic powers or authority in blizzard.

The night warrior power kills whoever holds it for too long but maybe if you paid attention to new lore (I understand that anything post-wc3 is hard for you) then you would know they found a way to possibly stop that

Night warrior is a possible class
Tinker is possible
Dragonsworn is possible
Necromancer is possible
Murloc tamer is possible

The fact is literally anything is possible heck they made an April fools joke a main race of an expansion

Night Warrior isn't possible and neither is Murloc tamer. In all seriousness, there simply isn't enough material to make Night Warrior a class without it impeding on existing classes. Blizzard is also highly conservative in their class implementations. Death Knights, Brewmasters, and Demon Hunters were present in Warcraft lore for decades before they were implemented into WoW. It doesn't make sense for Blizzard to introduce a concept in BFA and make it a class 2 expansions later. Further this concept highly resembles existing classes to a point where you could stick it into an existing class without much issue. Third Demon Hunter spec anyone?

Beyond that, I highly doubt the WoW community at large wants another hyper specialized elf class.

How about just a "Ranger" class with a Dark Ranger spec? I think it would open things up a little bit for creative flexibility.

Hunters are Rangers.

[Futhark]

Runemaster

[Ielenia]

But that speculation is meaningless. The fact of the matter is that Hunters are using magical arrows, which makes them users of magic.

Speculations aren't meaningless. And again: you're stating speculation as fact, here. The fact hunters use magical arrows does not make them "users of magic" in the sense of being comparable to spellcasters like shamans or mages, especially since the idea of them buying their ammo already enchanted can be a perfectly valid explanation.

Again, that is meaningless speculation. Head canon in fact.

It is speculation, but it is in no way meaningless considering it directly contradicts your assertion of facts. Again: the idea of the hunters buying their ammo already enchanted is a perfectly valid explanation.

It doesn't because Hunters learn Necromancy in order to tame undead beasts,

Here, again, you posit your speculation as fact. This is incredibly dishonest out of you since you keep dismissing my alternative explanations as "speculation", but then in the same breath you posit your own speculations as fact. No, it is not a fact that hunters are learning necromancy, because it is not been proven that one needs to know necromantic magic to tame undead beasts. Or any magic whatsoever.

and Black Arrow was a Necromantic Hunter ability in legion.

It doesn't change the fact that a necromantic ability does not fit the theme of the hunter, which is of a wilderness tracker.

This is head canon. The only thing we know for a fact is that Hunters use magical arrows.

Yes, it is headcanon. I didn't state it as anything but such. And the fact you just pointed out is not really useful to you considering the explanation for such fact is still a mystery: we don't know if it's the hunter enchanting the arrows, which would make him a spellcaster, or if he is acquiring his ammunition already enchanted, which would make him NOT a spellcaster. And considering Hunters no longer have mana as a resource, which was removed several expansions ago under the explanation that mana never fit the hunter because the other resource they wanted to use they couldn't make it work in time... evidence points to my explanation may be the most likely one.

Like I said, it's not a double standard because using shadow magic goes against the concept of a Paladin. Using Shadow and Arcane arrows have been a part of the Hunter class for multiple expansions. Again, these are facts.

It is a double-standard, any way you slice it. You dismissed the covenants because they're an expansion feature:

Nope, because covenant abilities don’t really count for general class themes, it’s just an expansion feature. In the end, the difference between Priests and Paladins is the use of Shadow magic.

And I'll repeat: your facts are meaningless because we don't know the explanation/reason behind those facts. We don't know how the hunter acquires such enchanted arrows: does he enchant them (which makes him a spellcaster) or does he acquire them already enchanted (which would make him NOT a spellcaster)? And I'll remind you: the fact hunters lost their mana resource in favor of the focus resource which was intended to be its resource from the get-go points to the latter being the most likely answer.

In order to tame an undead beast you have to obtain a tome from Necromancers in the realm of the dead in the land of Necromancy.

None of that proves that the ability to tame undead is necromancy.

Reading a tome in order to control an undead creature is the literal definition of Necromancy.

Except you don't control it like a warlock controls a demon or a death knight controls an undead. You tame the undead beasts. It's a whole different thing.

I'm talking Blizzard because it's their game and they determine the need.

And you are not Blizzard, therefore what you think the game needs is irrelevant if you're "talking Blizzard".

Hunters are Rangers.

In your opinion.

[TheRevenantHero]

Yeah it’s not like they have cosmetics to make you look like other classes
Nope they never made gear to make you look like a demon hunter in the past and they didn’t give you gear that was meant to be a knock off frostmourne

Thanks for clarifying what will and won’t be a class though. I didn’t know you were the lead dev at blizzard

Demon Hunters have unique abilities. Night Warriors do not. Try actually reading the entire comment.

[razorpax]

But that speculation is meaningless. The fact of the matter is that Hunters are using magical arrows, which makes them users of magic.




Again, that is meaningless speculation. Head canon in fact.




It doesn't because Hunters learn Necromancy in order to tame undead beasts, and Black Arrow was a Necromantic Hunter ability in legion.




This is head canon. The only thing we know for a fact is that Hunters use magical arrows.



Like I said, it's not a double standard because using shadow magic goes against the concept of a Paladin. Using Shadow and Arcane arrows have been a part of the Hunter class for multiple expansions. Again, these are facts.



In order to tame an undead beast you have to obtain a tome from Necromancers in the realm of the dead in the land of Necromancy. Reading a tome in order to control an undead creature is the literal definition of Necromancy.



I'm talking Blizzard because it's their game and they determine the need. Blizzard always needs more subscribers to WoW, and the technology base races definitely need a technology class because they're sorely out of place without one.

- - - Updated - - -



Night Warrior isn't possible and neither is Murloc tamer. In all seriousness, there simply isn't enough material to make Night Warrior a class without it impeding on existing classes. Blizzard is also highly conservative in their class implementations. Death Knights, Brewmasters, and Demon Hunters were present in Warcraft lore for decades before they were implemented into WoW. It doesn't make sense for Blizzard to introduce a concept in BFA and make it a class 2 expansions later. Further this concept highly resembles existing classes to a point where you could stick it into an existing class without much issue. Third Demon Hunter spec anyone?

Beyond that, I highly doubt the WoW community at large wants another hyper specialized elf class.



Hunters are Rangers.

Why would it be hyper elf?? Other races worship Elune including alien races. The lore can develop to make it available to most races

There’s no actual existing night warrior concept outside of fan concepts so blizzard could do anything. What if they added her to HotS?

Blizzard can do whatever they want and they even have some murloc knight abilities in game

[Triceron]

Demon Hunters have unique abilities. Night Warriors do not. Try actually reading the entire comment.

All of the DH abilities were used by Priests, Rogues and Warlocks. What would it have mattered?

New abilities get given to any new class.

[razorpax]

Demon Hunters have unique abilities. Night Warriors do not. Try actually reading the entire comment.

Night warriors have no abilities

[TheRevenantHero]

All of the DH abilities were used by Priests, Rogues and Warlocks. What would it have mattered?

New abilities get given to any new class.

If Night Warrior had been something in WC3, your comment would have merit. But they weren't. Night Warrior is nothing but an increase of power. It doesn't change your class or anything. Night Warrior has absolutely zero unique abilities so therefore there is no precedent to make it into a class.

[Triceron]

If Night Warrior had been something in WC3, your comment would have merit. But they weren't. Night Warrior is nothing but an increase of power. It doesn't change your class or anything. Night Warrior has absolutely zero unique abilities so therefore there is no precedent to make it into a class.

While the Night Warrior was definitely not in WC3, it doesn't really matter at all. Warlocks and Rogues weren't playable in WC3 either.

Runemasters weren't in WC3 and were on the shortlist of being a WoW class. We know that they were developed quite far, and were considered as a 'non-standard caster type' class that eventually went to the Warlock. Their mechanics ended up getting folded into the Death Knight, so we know they took the concept quite far.

The only thing I'd consider being against this concept is the fact that there is such a limited space for new classes that it'd be unlikely to be made into its own class. As for your argument about unique abilities, I don't see the point of this being a criteria at all considering I pointed out that the Demon Hunter had every one of its abilities present in WoW and used by other classes before it was made into its own class. It had zero unique abilities that weren't already in WoW.

A Night Warrior at least is a complete blank slate, meaning its unique abilities can literally be whatever Blizzard wants it too be. There isn't zero unique abilities, there's an infinite amount given that Blizzard can make anything they want, just like they made up 99% of the Player Demon Hunter's abilities. Where did Eyebeams and Double Jump and Wing Glides come from? They made it up.

Again, I don't think the Night Warrior would ever be a class, but I don't find your reasons to be any more than general opinion rather than points against the Night Warrior. If Blizzard really wanted a Night Warrior class, they'd just make up new mechanics for it. I just don't think Blizzard would ever want to pick Night Warrior out of all the other possible classes to choose from.

[TheRevenantHero]

While I don't disagree that the Night Warrior was definitely not in WC3, I wouldn't say it matters at all.

Runemasters weren't in WC3 and were on the shortlist of being a WoW class. We know that they were developed quite far, and were considered as a 'non-standard caster type' class that eventually went to the Warlock. Their mechanics ended up getting folded into the Death Knight, so we know they took the concept quite far.

The only thing I'd consider being against this concept is the fact that there is such a limited space for new classes that it'd be unlikely to be made into its own class. As for your argument about unique abilities, I don't see the point of this being a criteria at all considering I pointed out that the Demon Hunter had every one of its abilities present in WoW and used by other classes before it was made into its own class. It had zero unique abilities that weren't already in WoW.

A Night Warrior at least is a complete blank slate, meaning its unique abilities can literally be whatever Blizzard wants it too be. There isn't zero unique abilities, there's an infinite amount given that Blizzard can make anything they want, just like they made up 99% of the Player Demon Hunter's abilities. Where did Eyebeams and Double Jump and Wing Glides come from? They made it up.

As I've said before, it's tacked on power that increases the abilities of the receiver. You won't call Goku someone else when he goes super saiyan. Same goes for Night Warrior. They're still the same person and class, just on magical steroids. There's no training or anything special needed when you become a Night Warrior like the DH or DK or any other class. Just had to be there when Tyrande used the ritual.

They also basically wrote themselves into a corner, preventing it from being a class. It's night elf ONLY. It kills 99% of the people that partake in the ritual. And it was a one time thing that literally involves doing a mega ritual to Elune. The fact that it's night elf only alone makes it next to impossible to turn into a class this late into WoW's life.

[Teriz]

Speculations aren't meaningless. And again: you're stating speculation as fact, here. The fact hunters use magical arrows does not make them "users of magic" in the sense of being comparable to spellcasters like shamans or mages, especially since the idea of them buying their ammo already enchanted can be a perfectly valid explanation.

I never said it did. However if you're using magic you are a magic user by definition. We don't know what the source of that magic is, but it is a fact that they are using magic based archery.

It is speculation, but it is in no way meaningless considering it directly contradicts your assertion of facts. Again: the idea of the hunters buying their ammo already enchanted is a perfectly valid explanation.

Again this speculation is meaningless. The point of this is that Hunters use magical arrows which brings them right in line with Dark Rangers who are also using magical arrows.

Here, again, you posit your speculation as fact. This is incredibly dishonest out of you since you keep dismissing my alternative explanations as "speculation", but then in the same breath you posit your own speculations as fact. No, it is not a fact that hunters are learning necromancy, because it is not been proven that one needs to know necromantic magic to tame undead beasts. Or any magic whatsoever.

Okay, well this is the tome you have to read in order to tame undead beasts.

https://www.wowhead.com/item=183124/...f-bone-binding

Here's the text;

Use: Learn the dark secret to taming Undead beasts.
"A tome written by members of the House of Rituals, in large letters and using simple words, to teach the House of the Chosen members how to bind undead beasts to them. There are pictures."

You get this tome from Necromancers in Maldraxxus and the tome teaches you the ability. I don't know how you can deem that speculation or non-factual.

Yes, it is headcanon. I didn't state it as anything but such. And the fact you just pointed out is not really useful to you considering the explanation for such fact is still a mystery: we don't know if it's the hunter enchanting the arrows, which would make him a spellcaster, or if he is acquiring his ammunition already enchanted, which would make him NOT a spellcaster. And considering Hunters no longer have mana as a resource, which was removed several expansions ago under the explanation that mana never fit the hunter because the other resource they wanted to use they couldn't make it work in time... evidence points to my explanation may be the most likely one.

And I'm saying how they do it is a non-issue. All that matters is that when you press that button a magical arrow flies out and the class itself has multiple magical arrow abilities. Those magical arrow abilities include Shadow and Arcane arrows. Gameplay wise that makes them indistinguishable from what a Dark Ranger does.

And I'll repeat: your facts are meaningless

Then I guess we're done here.

[Triceron]

As I've said before, it's tacked on power that increases the abilities of the receiver. You won't call Goku someone else when he goes super saiyan. Same goes for Night Warrior. They're still the same person and class, just on magical steroids. There's no training or anything special needed when you become a Night Warrior like the DH or DK or any other class. Just had to be there when Tyrande used the ritual.

They also basically wrote themselves into a corner, preventing it from being a class. It's night elf ONLY. It kills 99% of the people that partake in the ritual. And it was a one time thing that literally involves doing a mega ritual to Elune. The fact that it's night elf only alone makes it next to impossible to turn into a class this late into WoW's life.

Not true. There are other Night Warriors in the lore now that are beyond Tyrande, like the beings we meet in the Shadowlands from completely different worlds. The first Night Warrior wasn't even a Night Elf.

We're explictly given lore that this 'title' is beyond just a power upgrade for a specific character.

I mean by all means, we could say Paladin is just a Priest that learned to fight, or a Warlock is a Shaman or Mage that Super Saiyaned on Fel magic. The line between specs, titles and classes are absolutely blurred and defined by only one thing - Blizzard's choice to make them either titles, specs or classes.

Death Knight and Demon Hunter are classes, Brewmaster is a spec. It doesn't really matter either way, and we aren't regarding them as simple 'power ups' of existing classes like Warriors or Rogues. Consider that any of these classes could have be implemented as 4th specs for Paladins, Warlocks or Shamans just as equally as them being chosen as their own class. When we deal with these kind of concepts, Blizzard seems to defer to making a new class and has not simply added more specs or 'power ups' to existing classes in this fashion.

[razorpax]

If Night Warrior had been something in WC3, your comment would have merit. But they weren't. Night Warrior is nothing but an increase of power. It doesn't change your class or anything. Night Warrior has absolutely zero unique abilities so therefore there is no precedent to make it into a class.

So according to you unless it’s from WC3 it won’t be a class?? They can’t create a class hero in WoW and then release the class later??

[TheRevenantHero]

Not true. There are other Night Warriors in the lore now that are beyond Tyrande, like the beings we meet in the Shadowlands from completely different worlds. The first Night Warrior wasn't even a Night Elf.

We're explictly given lore that this 'title' is beyond just a power upgrade for a specific character.

I mean by all means, we could say Paladin is just a Priest that learned to fight, or a Warlock is a Shaman or Mage that Super Saiyaned on Fel magic. The line between specs, titles and classes are absolutely blurred and defined by only one thing - Blizzard's choice to make them either titles, specs or classes.

Death Knight and Demon Hunter are classes, Brewmaster is a spec. It doesn't really matter either way, since we aren't regarding them as simple 'power ups' of existing classes like Warriors or Rogues.

Sure the first wasn't a night elf but that's lore from eons before anything on Azeroth. And then everyone that attempted it after that person was literally killed in the process. The other night warriors who survived in lore are ALL night elves.

There's also nothing that I can find that says the ritual gives you new abilities. Just increases the power of the recipient. They'd have to butcher the lore even worse than they did in Shadowlands in order to try and justify Night Warrior as a class and I'd really rather that didn't happen. It would be far easier and less damaging to introduce something like runemaster or dragonsworn.

[razorpax]

Murlocmancer
2 specs
Murleader: tank spec
Mail wearer
All weapons
Uses the power of murloc companions to buff against damage

Murlancer: dps
Spears
Uses murloc a and fish to deal massive ape damage

Any race but upon combat gains a look similar to the murloc king




Oh look another class concept