New major problem with current direction of development

[Nadiru]

Players unsubbing after they're done with their current content goals is the intended direction of development, not a "major problem" with it.

[shise]

They should minimize the game to its core. Less systems and longer time to achieve core actions such as leveling, accessing to dungeons, gear drops should be far less, none should be able to have full epics until the first raid is cleared.
Powers should be skill related: when we had several ranks, it was up to you to manage them and you could also greatly work around the talent trees.

Hate all you want, but it is a hard fact that wow was at its best when it was far more simple. All the new systems are crap; they override the very essentials of the game and are completely unnecessary. A far more simple game with less content would be far more rich than this overcomplication. WoW is an MMORPG, keep it that way.

[KrayZ33]

They should minimize the game to its core. Less systems and longer time to achieve core actions such as leveling, accessing to dungeons, gear drops should be far less, none should be able to have full epics until the first raid is cleared.
Powers should be skill related: when we had several ranks, it was up to you to manage them and you could also greatly work around the talent trees.

Hate all you want, but it is a hard fact that wow was at its best when it was far more simple. All the new systems are crap; they override the very essentials of the game and are completely unnecessary. A far more simple game with less content would be far more rich than this overcomplication. WoW is an MMORPG, keep it that way.

No.. it really isn't a hard fact at all.
And access to fun systems such as co-op dungeon gameplay should require more time? How's that a great idea. It sounds stupid by design.

That shit sounds a whole lot like your cookie cutter korean MMORPG which die off in just a few months after release here in the west.
The talent tree and skill talent values is a more complicated system than what we have now.. and apparently, you think that is better. So it seems like you yourself think that minimizing stuff isn't always a great idea in the first place?

Sounds more like WoW classic to me... and we all saw and know how long that "survived" in the long run in this day and age.

[WowIsDead64]

Players unsubbing after they're done with their current content goals is the intended direction of development, not a "major problem" with it.

No. World of Waitcraft - is major problem. So, for example, I'm done with my current content goals and I'm going to quit. Not because I've run out of goals, but because doing current goals isn't bearable for me. I'll wait till some future patches. Problem is - if several small and easy fixes would be applied, then I'll be busy for at least 4 times longer. And Blizzard don't seem to understand this concept. They think, their game lacks content and try to stretch their content as much, as possible. But this tactic is counter-productive. It only makes things worse. I call it "stall". Blizzard try to pull even more play time from players via stretching their content even more. It works till some critical moment. Moment, when player burn out and start quitting.

[Caerrona]

starting with bfa they deliberately made the game worse for the sake of everything taking longer. as if the subscription is minute/hour based and not a fixed 30 days. self sabotage at its finest

its so many little annoying things that add up to just hating even logging in

What takes longer?

Anima is 30mins-1 hour a week vs infinite ap (capped at points)

Torghast is an hour a week vs sacrificing your left nut and first born for a legendary that was bis. (I also don't do torghast anymore, have rank 4 and capped ash incase something changes)

Covenant campaign (like 30 mins a week, now its done) is just recycled gated story from ever expansion.

So 2-2.5 hours a week? Thats "TOO" long? Then you can do whatever whenever for however long you want?

This expansion is by far the easiest and quickest alt progression we have ever had.

I'm loving being done for the week after 2 hours and get to do what i want. Instead of feeling the need to run more maw runs or more islands.

- - - Updated - - -

I dont know if im depressed or something but i feel like nothing really matters and people will never be happy with the game by their own fault.

WoW gameplay is nothing more than a "punching bag with meaning and purpose" (mobs to kill with a reward and progression system)
And what happens when you "finish" your reward structure and progression? You are back to having no meaning and purpose to your punching bag.

So...

I think this means...the journey is the most important part...together with the sense of acomplishment of completing said journey...and then...GAME OVER

-----

The problem i still see is that players are NEVER happy about the ga⁹meplay if they dont have a progression system/reward.
Can WoW be played as if it was a League of Legends or a Call of Duty?
It seems that for the people complaining...it CANT (for them)

-----

I personally reached the conclusion nothing really matters and you better start enjoying the small things in MMORPGs.
For me is "roleplaying" and doing stupid crap with friends or people you met ingame.

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...7#post52958847

When is round 3 freakout thread?

[Nadiru]

No. World of Waitcraft - is major problem. So, for example, I'm done with my current content goals and I'm going to quit. Not because I've run out of goals, but because doing current goals isn't bearable for me. I'll wait till some future patches. Problem is - if several small and easy fixes would be applied, then I'll be busy for at least 4 times longer. And Blizzard don't seem to understand this concept. They think, their game lacks content and try to stretch their content as much, as possible. But this tactic is counter-productive. It only makes things worse. I call it "stall". Blizzard try to pull even more play time from players via stretching their content even more. It works till some critical moment. Moment, when player burn out and start quitting.

They don't want you to be busy just so you stay subbed. They want you to be able to dip in and dip out of WoW as you desire. This is intentional design choice, albeit one that is a massive shift away from the "gotta stay grinding" mentality of Legion and BFA. As for burnout, WoW engagement has remained high this deep into a patch, to the point where it was noted on their investor call last week.

[Zig Zug]

Ah, glad to see Wowisdead and Shadowpunk remain un-deterred in their espousing of nonsense. Imagine if they used their power for....literally anything else at this point, lol.

[WowIsDead64]

As I feared, we have a bad news. 9.0.5 is "selfie cam" patch and it'll sit on PTR till March. That means, that 9.1 is delayed even further.

First I though, that may be I shouldn't have rushed to Renown 23 on my last alt. May be I should have subbed for another month, because may be 9.1 is close and Blizzard will announce it on BlizzConline? I still have minor things to do. I've completed my anima grind on my main, but all alts still require it. And another month is required to get to Renown 40, even if it's pointless, because rewards are garbage anyway. But now I know, that 9.1 100% won't be here till April-May. So, no point to still be subbed.

[Zig Zug]

So, no point to still be subbed.

To your blog or the game? lol

[Shaqthefat]

They can, but they aren't infinite either - at some point you should kill them all.

I have problem. My 4th alt is leveled and run out of Renown catch-ups on that week. So I have nothing more to do. What I want to achieve - is to get to level 23 in a 7-10 days, because my sub fee expires after that and I'm not going to resub till 9.1. My previous alt got stuck two times and it has taken too long for him to get to 23. What I want to try now - to do some extra content to try to beat this RNG nonsense. I wanted to try Torghast quests, because trying to do dungeons is bad idea - I'll put too much effort without any guarantee, that I'll get any Renown, because system isn't transparent and nobody knows, if it has hidden cap or not. But... This article says, that time-gates were removed. But I've completed first two quests in this chain and Bolvar no longer provides any quests. What is wrong? When will he provide more quests?

I got to renown level 24 in two days of work on my newest alt and I hardly put any time into it.

[msdos]

Called it. Here come the "Legendary" stuff that is gonna cause the second round of unsubs.

Look at that Koltira Legendary. It's literally +10% dmg and a tiny chance to refund a resource (which is a nerfed version of the old one kek). It's invisible and meaningless. These are the types of things that go live in this game. Blizzard's idea of fun is turn up a number and give you a small chance to return your crappy resource that you also barely even manage. It's a joke.

[WowIsDead64]

I got to renown level 24 in two days of work on my newest alt and I hardly put any time into it.

Tried to do 5ppls. 2 days ago they granted me 1 Renown, so I was able to get to next campaign chapter. Tried to do it yesterday - 0 Renown. I'm stuck at level 15. One week of sub and 8 levels to go. On previous character I had to wait 2 times till next week to unstuck. So, may be you spam something like M+ 24/7, so it's easy for you? I have time to do only 2-3 5ppls a day, because I can do it at night only.

I have only 2 options to continue playing:
1) Level next alt - not going to happen till flying is returned
2) Anima grind - not going to happen till anima income is buffed

[Shaqthefat]

Tried to do 5ppls. 2 days ago they granted me 1 Renown, so I was able to get to next campaign chapter. Tried to do it yesterday - 0 Renown. I'm stuck at level 15. One week of sub and 8 levels to go. On previous character I had to wait 2 times till next week to unstuck. So, may be you spam something like M+ 24/7, so it's easy for you? I have time to do only 2-3 5ppls a day, because I can do it at night only.

I have only 2 options to continue playing:
1) Level next alt - not going to happen till flying is returned
2) Anima grind - not going to happen till anima income is buffed

I didn't do M+ until after I was that level of renown. I literally just did world content at a slow pace, because I can't be asked grinding renown seriously on an alt. Not to mention the anima grind is a joke if you take it semi-seriously. Do the anima dailies on the day of reset and that's usually enough to complete that week of anima. And even then if you can't be asked doing that, you should be able to get 1000 anima by doing the easy anima world quests throughout the week. The anima grind is an actual joke compare to AP of legion and bfa. At bare minimum effort renown should be flowing in.

[WowIsDead64]

I didn't do M+ until after I was that level of renown. I literally just did world content at a slow pace, because I can't be asked grinding renown seriously on an alt. Not to mention the anima grind is a joke if you take it semi-seriously. Do the anima dailies on the day of reset and that's usually enough to complete that week of anima. And even then if you can't be asked doing that, you should be able to get 1000 anima by doing the easy anima world quests throughout the week. The anima grind is an actual joke compare to AP of legion and bfa. At bare minimum effort renown should be flowing in.

I just wanted to say, that getting 24 Renown in two days while not using extra sources - is lie. Guaranteed sources give you just 3 Renown a week - 2 weeklies + world boss. Callings grant you may be 2, 3 in best case. Plus campaign chapters, that are actually +1 free level. That's it. Everything else is needed to be grinded.

And about anima. May be anima is enough to upgrade catch-up gear, because it costs 300/item max. But other upgrades are extremely overpriced. They cost thousands of anima. As I've already said, anima shouldn't be just rep 2.0, where you need 21k and you get 35 per WQ. Remember? At least emissaries/callings grant 1500 rep. And what about anima? It's bad design, just bad design. And it should be fixed.

P.S. Why do I have to constantly level alts? Exactly because of this World of Waitcraft. I can play right now. And I would want to farm anima on two alts. But wait? I have to wait for 10am for weekly reset. How to fix this problem? Level alt. Because leveling is only part of Wow, that isn't time-gated.

Yeah, too much daily grind is also bad, because you don't have time to play alts and experience whole story then. But at the same time it's bad, when I can and want to play right now, but can't due to time-gating. While previous design was much worse, something is still wrong with current design.

There should be 3 kinds of characters:
1) "Main" charaters - weekly time-gated content only, so you'd have time to play on other characters
2) Current character - limited amount of content (2-3 weeks), that is daily time-gated, so you always have daily things to do
3) Next character - new alt, that is being leveled now, so you can do content, that isn't time-gated at all

Currently only one xpack was that perfect - WOD patch 6.2

[Shaqthefat]

I just wanted to say, that getting 24 Renown in two days while not using extra sources - is lie. Guaranteed sources give you just 3 Renown a week - 2 weeklies + world boss. Callings grant you may be 2, 3 in best case. Plus campaign chapters, that are actually +1 free level. That's it. Everything else is needed to be grinded.

And about anima. May be anima is enough to upgrade catch-up gear, because it costs 300/item max. But other upgrades are extremely overpriced. They cost thousands of anima. As I've already said, anima shouldn't be just rep 2.0, where you need 21k and you get 35 per WQ. Remember? At least emissaries/callings grant 1500 rep. And what about anima? It's bad design, just bad design. And it should be fixed.

P.S. Why do I have to constantly level alts? Exactly because of this World of Waitcraft. I can play right now. And I would want to farm anima on two alts. But wait? I have to wait for 10am for weekly reset. How to fix this problem? Level alt. Because leveling is only part of Wow, that isn't time-gated.

Yeah, too much daily grind is also bad, because you don't have time to play alts and experience whole story then. But at the same time it's bad, when I can and want to play right now, but can't due to time-gating. While previous design was much worse, something is still wrong with current design.

There should be 3 kinds of characters:
1) "Main" charaters - weekly time-gated content only, so you'd have time to play on other characters
2) Current character - limited amount of content (2-3 weeks), that is daily time-gated, so you always have daily things to do
3) Next character - new alt, that is being leveled now, so you can do content, that isn't time-gated at all

Currently only one xpack was that perfect - WOD patch 6.2

If its a lie then someone is getting on my account and farming renown on my hunter while im not around lmfao. The renown "grind" is a joke and practically does itself.

Don't be so afraid to step into group content and get more renown levels if its so important to you.

[Echocho]

The problem i still see is that players are NEVER happy about the gameplay if they dont have a progression system/reward.

That's why Valor gear was such a great system. It wasn't the most exciting system from a design perspective but it kept us playing whole patches by drip feeding us gear. Going to the vendor and buying that piece of armor you had worked towards felt great.
I'd prefer it to be combined with imegated BOP crafting in some way but then you're pretty much forced to run your armor class profession plus jewelcrafting.

The problem with the current reward structure is that if you don't do premade group content it just ends and it doesn't even feel rewarding getting there. They really screwed over the casual playerbase this expansion.

[Dhrizzle]

Called it. Here come the "Legendary" stuff that is gonna cause the second round of unsubs.

Look at that Koltira Legendary. It's literally +10% dmg and a tiny chance to refund a resource (which is a nerfed version of the old one kek). It's invisible and meaningless. These are the types of things that go live in this game. Blizzard's idea of fun is turn up a number and give you a small chance to return your crappy resource that you also barely even manage. It's a joke.

Rebalancing items is an odd thing to get mad at.

[WowIsDead64]

Can you confirm, that Bolvar's quests grant Renown? 4 quests in a row = 0 Renown.

[WowIsDead64]

This thread amazes me. The OP is actually finding open world content and questing too hard. I never thought I would hear anyone say that. Apparently we need game modes that are easier than LFR xD

I know, what caused it back in BFA. Now I start to feel the same. In full 197 gear my character is very strong. He almost one-shots everything. But. Imagine, that Blizzard will assume, that all players have 197 gear. How will they tune 9.1 content then? Do you really think, that they'll tune it for fresh green character, who hasn't completed campaign yet? No. It will be tuned for ~200ilvl character. Yeah, we have fast enough catch-ups now. But we didn't have them back in BFA.

[Kumorii]

I know, what caused it back in BFA. Now I start to feel the same. In full 197 gear my character is very strong. He almost one-shots everything. But. Imagine, that Blizzard will assume, that all players have 197 gear. How will they tune 9.1 content then? Do you really think, that they'll tune it for fresh green character, who hasn't completed campaign yet? No. It will be tuned for ~200ilvl character. Yeah, we have fast enough catch-ups now. But we didn't have them back in BFA.

Why wouldn't it? So far every new content patch with ilvl increase have resulted in higher ilvl catch up mechanics...