"1.12.1 made everything easy"

[zealo]

Strip away the world buffs meta, and a lot of classic guilds that are currently 15/15 in Naxx would start wiping a ton, and become unable to get past bosses that they previously "beat".

It shouldn't be underestimated just how cancerous the world buffs meta is to the difficulty of Naxx as an instance in terms of gear checks. While people have certainly gotten better at the game over the years in general, the whole world buffs stacking meta wasn't this widespread in actual vanilla, and developed afterwards on private servers and carried over into Classic. Raiding in Classic is effectively a different game than it was back in actual Vanilla because of this meta.

If Blizzard decided to actually fix what is frankly a bunch of exploits, by stripping characters of any buffs they have the moment they step inside of a raid instance, forcing usage of only what you can cast on players when inside, quite a lot of people's "progress" in Naxx would fall drastically.

[Marweinicus1]

What world buffs are people using? I remember back in the day, we killed Onyxia to give us a little boost against Razorgore. I also know a few crazy ones farmed the Un'goro gems for buffs.

I just did all quests when Classic WoW released, cuz I loved it. I felt no need to raid, because I already did that 15 years ago. Still amazes me that people are effectively raiding classic WoW.

[slime]

it wasnt the classic community it was the retail kids stroking each other off using shitty outdated information and bro-knowledge. It got us gems like: Druids cant tank

You mean pallys?

[Heathy]

What world buffs are people using? I remember back in the day, we killed Onyxia to give us a little boost against Razorgore. I also know a few crazy ones farmed the Un'goro gems for buffs.

I just did all quests when Classic WoW released, cuz I loved it. I felt no need to raid, because I already did that 15 years ago. Still amazes me that people are effectively raiding classic WoW.

there are dire maul buffs, that last for 2hrs, 15% stamina 200 attack power and 3% spell crit.
onyxia you know 10% crit, and rend 15% melee haste
zg 15% all stats
songflower 5% crit 15+ all stats.

some buffs I think you probably do need for some bosses on progression, they exist so why not use them. we even used the razorhide buff from the barrens for patchwerk progression, 25% armor for 10 minutes, thats a bit try hard, but, if it stops ppl getting one shotted by hateful strike, why not use it?

sapphiron is quite healing intensive and is probably the one fight in the entire game that do you want everything saphiron is kinda harder than kel'thuzad doing kel without world buffs probably isn't that much of a struggle, while doing sapphiron without world buffs or just not 15 healers, the buffs make a huge difference. is sapphiron doable without world buffs sure, is it easy? no. everyone has way less hp, much more likely to just get one tapped by the ice block thing and fuck that side of the room. some classes are rocking 3k hp in frost resist gear and no world buffs.

[Akka]

Strip away the world buffs meta, and a lot of classic guilds that are currently 15/15 in Naxx would start wiping a ton, and become unable to get past bosses that they previously "beat".

It shouldn't be underestimated just how cancerous the world buffs meta is to the difficulty of Naxx as an instance in terms of gear checks.

This can't be overstated.
The unwillingness from Blizzard to do anything with the World Buff despite their incredibly toxic influence on the whole game (and the whole game mentality) is the main reason I'm very wary of what TBC Classic will be. This is their biggest drop of the ball yet.

[Fathr]

Would it still be easy before 1.12? Yes.
Did 1.12 made everything easier, regardless? Yes.

What's the point of this thread really?

Point is pretty simple, a "retailer too bored to play a borring game" beating the same old subject that has been discussed to death and proven wrong countless of times. But none the less knowledgeable players try once again to teach the retailer how the real world works, so 10 points for the people trying to educate the poor fellow, though he wont learn and will pop up again in a week or so beating the dead horse once again. It's a never ending story, was classic as hard as people remembered it to be from vanilla ? No. Why ? Because of all the reasons stated earlier in the thread, these combined equals the classic experience.

[Gratlim]

"Easier"...if you don't account for the fact that in vanilla, fucking up a raid mechanic can domino into a wipe very quickly.

In LFR you can completely ignore mechanics and just tunnel the boss and still win through raw DPS/HPS.

Not really. It was the case before but since BFA especially LFR are wipefests with much harder stuff than anything beside maybe C'thun and some others who are equally punishing. Castle Nathria is probably one of the hardest raid we got in recent years. And i play both Classic and retail.

[Nnyco]

Classic was easy, no matter the patch they would've given you.

[Marweinicus1]

there are dire maul buffs, that last for 2hrs, 15% stamina 200 attack power and 3% spell crit.
onyxia you know 10% crit, and rend 15% melee haste
zg 15% all stats
songflower 5% crit 15+ all stats.

some buffs I think you probably do need for some bosses on progression, they exist so why not use them. we even used the razorhide buff from the barrens for patchwerk progression, 25% armor for 10 minutes, thats a bit try hard, but, if it stops ppl getting one shotted by hateful strike, why not use it?

sapphiron is quite healing intensive and is probably the one fight in the entire game that do you want everything saphiron is kinda harder than kel'thuzad doing kel without world buffs probably isn't that much of a struggle, while doing sapphiron without world buffs or just not 15 healers, the buffs make a huge difference. is sapphiron doable without world buffs sure, is it easy? no. everyone has way less hp, much more likely to just get one tapped by the ice block thing and fuck that side of the room. some classes are rocking 3k hp in frost resist gear and no world buffs.

Ahh yes you remind me of the UBRS Rend runs people wanted to do for that buff. Ty for telling

[zealo]

This can't be overstated.
The unwillingness from Blizzard to do anything with the World Buff despite their incredibly toxic influence on the whole game (and the whole game mentality) is the main reason I'm very wary of what TBC Classic will be. This is their biggest drop of the ball yet.

Thankfully enough, there is no real equivalence to the classic world buffs to be found in TBC. People will be using drums regularly forcing lots into leatherworking, and that's about it, which is far less toxic on the rest of the community of a server.

[Eldarius]

You can complain about things being easy all you like - sure it's a hell of a lot easier than it used to be (partially because we're more experienced players now), but tonnes of guilds broke up in AQ on my server, even more in Naxx. The guild i'm in (on a very, very populated server) was in the top 20 guilds to clear Naxxramas on the server, and it took us 3 weeks.

I've enjoyed my classic experience, it's mostly lived up to what i hoped it would be. The fact that in TBC they are releasing some pre-nerf bosses is just a win/win all round.

[ZazuuPriest]

You mean pallys?

the blanket statement pallys cant tank is also wrong. It doesn't matter if they need to do 10x more work that's not the point.

[Echocho]

the blanket statement pallys cant tank is also wrong. It doesn't matter if they need to do 10x more work that's not the point.

Then I'd like to throw priests in there too. They can also tank.

[anon5123]

That's not true for most bosses

If you ignore mechanics in LFR Shreikwing, you wipe to blood and sonar
If you ignore cc'ing bear in LFR Huntsman, you wipe to casts
If you ignore the healing mechanic of Hungering, you die to not getting heals
Same for Sludgefist and Artificer

The difference is that those things take a lot longer and a lot more fucking-up to actually kill you or wipe the raid.

[Echocho]

The difference is that those things take a lot longer and a lot more fucking-up to actually kill you or wipe the raid.

It really doesn't matter. If you're comparing the hardest content in one game against the easiest in another it's not really a fair comparison. It's like saying that Classic leveling is easier since 1-5 is not as hard as 50-60 in shadowlands when classic leveling is obviously much harder as a whole.

[Cyanu]

You know this is a lie.
You know damn well those bosses would have been tanked and spanked into oblivion within hours of being released by the more devoted groups/guilds.
You know damn well the saying "it was hard because we didn't know what we were doing" is at least partially true.

Not sure why so many toxic, elitist myths persisted within the Classic community.

because there are people that have been playing this game for a considerable part of their lives and still have nothing to show for it: pvp rating ~1600 max, pve progression can't even get curve, m+ progression? ~700 io

how are they going to keep telling themselves they're good?

like this: 'back in the day...' '...and now everything is for kids'

and why can't you do it? 'because of boosters and pay 2 win'... /facepalm

[clevin]

Eh. 1.1.2 made it easier. Different talents, itemization, more debuff slots... all that helped. But it just helped. Stuff would die without it.

[Frozenbro]

Strip away the world buffs meta, and a lot of classic guilds that are currently 15/15 in Naxx would start wiping a ton, and become unable to get past bosses that they previously "beat".

Cause wow players in general are just that bad, not because the content was ever hard, dont blind yourself, the actual good players of wow which is a tiny amount barely touched classic or didnt play at all since they are doing actual hard content in the form of mythic retail, so yeah, strip the world buffs and the patch and all you want, content would still be piss easy, its classic.

[Eldar45]

People don't can understand that classic-raids were easier than LFR and hard back then because we were worse than LFR-Raiders nowadays, it's as simple as that.

classic-raids were easier than LFR

No. No they are not. The bosses run the gambit of difficulty, and some of them are LFR easy, but if you think Sapp, KT, 4 Horseman, Loatheb, C'thun, Twin Emps, Viscidus, Patchwerk are on the same difficulty as even Sire Denathrius LFR then you are actually insane.

Even Noth would cause multiple raid wipes in LFR, even to the point of being a hard wall for LFR. Because the mages won't decurse.

[Heathy]

its true if you tried to just make a raid for naxx out the trade chat it would be a wipe fest, you'd be dropping a repair bot before you even cleared a single wing. I can pretty much guarantee that. perhaps you'd clear spider with some luck, noth, hiegan assuming the majority can dance, even razuvious if you managed to get some good priests, you won't get past gothik though or loatheb with a pug that doesn't have world buffs or uses consumables.