Elon Musk is pleading for engineers, technicians, and other experts to move to South

[Kaleredar]

Because Elon Musk is a fucking scumbag. I'll be honest for a lot of years he had me fooled that he might be a decent human being.

He's like if you crossed the ambition of Walt Disney... with the personality of Mark Zuckerberg.

[Doctor Amadeus]

He certainly doesn't seem to be a winner in the personality arena. Professionally, of course, he's a genius. Not sure when you measure it all out it rates a "fucking scumbag" rating, but it's also not "nobel peace prize" either.

All True, while my personal opinion of him has waned there is no taking away his actual accomplishments even if it's arguable what some suggest those accomplishments are, I do agree with you on your points.

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He's like if you crossed the ambition of Walt Disney... with the personality of Mark Zuckerberg.

Yeah well it's not like I assumed or presumed anything about him he just seemed like he was a very successful tech leader who got it, but now his personal shit seems to be highlighting his flaws. Walt Disney is a good example

[Kaleredar]

Yeah well it's not like I assumed or presumed anything about him he just seemed like he was a very successful tech leader who got it, but now his personal shit seems to be highlighting his flaws. Walt Disney is a good example

In my mind someone who wants to describe themself as a "futurist" should be far more magnanimous in their conduct. Most of what I learn of Musk is... kind of skeeving.

Like pulling up stakes out of California because he didn't like how they were attempting to combat a global lethal pandemic and to personally enrich himself further, and then trying to draw people out of a progressive state to a far more regressive one that lacks the intellectual infrastructure that he previously profited off of and requires to operate his business.

I'd call Disney a futurist, but it's clear that he was a bit too starry-eyed and politically juvenile to truly service futurism. But Musk is too shrewd for that, hence why I ascribe his personality more to a sort of self-interested and cold Zuckerberg.

[eschatological]

He certainly doesn't seem to be a winner in the personality arena. Professionally, of course, he's a genius. Not sure when you measure it all out it rates a "fucking scumbag" rating, but it's also not "nobel peace prize" either.

Is he, though? As far as I can tell he's an anti-social personality disorder running a top company but isn't really innovative in his own right - just the guy who hires the innovative people. Like - how many of Tesla's designs are actually his?

He reminds me of a douchier Steve Jobs, which is hard to even fathom, while the real brains work behind the scenes.

[Kaleredar]

Is he, though? As far as I can tell he's an anti-social personality disorder running a top company but isn't really innovative in his own right - just the guy who hires the innovative people. Like - how many of Tesla's designs are actually his?

He reminds me of a douchier Steve Jobs, which is hard to even fathom, while the real brains work behind the scenes.

I used to have a cousin who worked for SpaceX as security a number of years ago. He said that, following a critical rocket test failure (I.E, rocket explodes) that Musk would go on a fairly hefty firing spree... and while I'm no rocket scientist, I would think something that's literally rocket science would be expected to have some trial and error and that retaining people to learn from their mistakes, rather than attempting to field new professionals in an extremely specific field repeatedly, would probably be the best course of action.

[eschatological]

As far as I can tell, the dude has a B.A. in physics (not even a B.S.) and dropped out of his PhD program after TWO DAYS.

About his only accomplishment as far as I can tell, that the did, was a website that served as a glorified white pages for various cities. How he conned himself into buyouts from Compaq (1995) and eBay (2001?) is beyond me. He was kicked off most boards he was on before 2004.

He's the deifnition of a Silicon Valley dudebro fuckstain.

[Kaleredar]

As far as I can tell, the dude has a B.A. in physics (not even a B.S.) and dropped out of his PhD program after TWO DAYS.

About his only accomplishment as far as I can tell, that the did, was a website that served as a glorified white pages for various cities. How he conned himself into buyouts from Compaq (1995) and eBay (2001?) is beyond me. He was kicked off most boards he was on before 2004.

He's the deifnition of a Silicon Valley dudebro fuckstain.

I will give credit where credit is due, in that he shepherded and funded electric cars and made them cool in the form of Teslas and is doing a great deal towards shepherding and funding innovative rocket research and creating opportunities for the US to once again be self-reliant in manned space flight. I think those are both good things and Ttose are things I don't know would have happened without his direction.

But yeah, beyond those things... he doesn't impress me as a person. Brogrammers that want to pattern their life off of his should really be sure to make note of the innovations he oversaw and be able to separate that from the personality and conduct of the man himself, such that they don't try and emulate the latter thinking that it's intractable from the former.

[cubby]

Is he, though? As far as I can tell he's an anti-social personality disorder running a top company but isn't really innovative in his own right - just the guy who hires the innovative people. Like - how many of Tesla's designs are actually his?

He reminds me of a douchier Steve Jobs, which is hard to even fathom, while the real brains work behind the scenes.

Yes, he is. Running now/previously three top companies. When SpaceX first started up, he helped design the rocket because they couldn't afford to hire another engineer.
Reminder: it takes real brains to run a company, and Musk did both - contribute and run it.

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As far as I can tell, the dude has a B.A. in physics (not even a B.S.) and dropped out of his PhD program after TWO DAYS.

He got into the program, which is an achievement by itself. Why does it objectively matter how long into it he left the program? It's interesting that you all caps the two days - maybe he thought he could do more for the world as a business man than in energy physics/materials science (how easy is it to get into Stanford's Graduate programs in science again? - I guess that B.A. in Physics was worthless after all, eh?). And you skipped his two internships - isn't that interesting. And he left the program to start one of his many million/billion dollar companies.

About his only accomplishment as far as I can tell, that the did, was a website that served as a glorified white pages for various cities. How he conned himself into buyouts from Compaq (1995) and eBay (2001?) is beyond me. He was kicked off most boards he was on before 2004.

I guess you missed the part where he literally revitalized the space industry, including allowing the United States to launch astronauts rather than rely on other countries. Have you been living under a rock?

He's the deifnition of a Silicon Valley dudebro fuckstain.

He's literally the very definition of the Silicon Valley success story.

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I will give credit where credit is due, in that he shepherded and funded electric cars and made them cool in the form of Teslas and is doing a great deal towards shepherding and funding innovative rocket research and creating opportunities for the US to once again be self-reliant in manned space flight. I think those are both good things and Ttose are things I don't know would have happened without his direction.

But yeah, beyond those things... he doesn't impress me as a person. Brogrammers that want to pattern their life off of his should really be sure to make note of the innovations he oversaw and be able to separate that from the personality and conduct of the man himself, such that they don't try and emulate the latter thinking that it's intractable from the former.

His business prowess is almost literally second to none. I agree with what you're saying here, separating his professional achievements (while are legion) from his personality - which can be pretty bad. Tesla, PayPal, SpaceX - wouldn't have succeeded without him. The people who hate on his professional achievements because of his personality are...interesting.

But we've been here before with this discussion, and we know where it will go. Just rereading other people's comments, not yours K, makes me snicker - people just love to put their feels above objective reality. Cracks me up every time.

[eschatological]

Yes, he is. Running now/previously four top companies. When SpaceX first started up, he helped design the rocket because they couldn't afford to hire another engineer.

The first rocket which exploded 3 times before it successfully even launched? In 2008, 40 years after we'd already achieved this kind of unmanned launches, and after hiring actual engineers like Tom Mueller, who he co-founded SpaceX with? He founded SpaceX in 2001, and had 7 years of failure. And he was only allowed to have 7 years of failure because he was a dot com boom Silicon Valley bro, and he could secure the investing needed.

His success is entirely based on being the son of a model whose families were famous, exploitative African "adventurers," and then leveraging that into securing multiple successful buyouts, mergers, and worming his way onto various boards (which he was continuously kicked off of until SpaceX, which he founded). If anything, he's a shrewd businessman....but not a fucking "genius." Give me a break.

Also, the adoration of Musk around the nerdier corners of the internet reminds me of the hero worship of Steve Jobs in literally the worst way possible. But unlike Jobs, whose company made over-expensive, sleek, user-friendly electronics which were ultimately luxury items, Musk is trying to shape the future of space travel, an important step in humanity's journey, which should absolutely and unequivocally not be influenced by him in any way, shape or form. Like I've said before, Musk is the villain in a show like The Expanse who creates a offshoot of humanity known as Belters to power his giga space corporations. I mean, the dude already names his factories Gigafactory 1, etc.

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His business prowess is almost literally second to none. I agree with what you're saying here, separating his professional achievements (while are legion) from his personality - which can be pretty bad. Tesla, PayPal, SpaceX - wouldn't have succeeded without him. The people who hate on his professional achievements because of his personality are...interesting.

Paypal was already successful before him, and in fact bought out Musk's company. Tesla was already founded and financially funded, until he wormed his way onto the board. And I utterly reject that he brought electric cars to the forefront - there was already big strides in electric vehiclemaking...he literally just Steve Jobs'd it to make it cool.

[cubby]

The first rocket which exploded 3 times before it successfully even launched?

Yes, that one. The same rocket that is now landing itself. I also love that you skip over the part that it was the first private liquid-fuel rocket to reach Earth orbit. Do you even know how many firsts SpaceX achieved - is continuing to achieve?

In 2008, 40 years after we'd already achieved this kind of unmanned launches, and after hiring actual engineers like Tom Mueller, who he co-founded SpaceX with? He founded SpaceX in 2001, and had 7 years of failure. And he was only allowed to have 7 years of failure because he was a dot com boom Silicon Valley bro, and he could secure the investing needed.

Elon Musk is an actual engineer. You don't need a degree in engineering to be an engineer. Unmanned launches...wtf are you even talking about. Musk pioneered inexpensive space launches by successfully creating reusable rockets.

His success is entirely based on being the son of a model whose families were famous, exploitative African "adventurers," and then leveraging that into securing multiple successful buyouts, mergers, and worming his way onto various boards (which he was continuously kicked off of until SpaceX, which he founded). If anything, he's a shrewd businessman....but not a fucking "genius." Give me a break.

What? Where are you even getting this stuff? He earned his way onto those Boards. Which boards were he "kicked out of"? Can you link?

Also, the adoration of Musk around the nerdier corners of the internet reminds me of the hero worship of Steve Jobs in literally the worst way possible. But unlike Jobs, whose company made over-expensive, sleek, user-friendly electronics which were ultimately luxury items, Musk is trying to shape the future of space travel, an important step in humanity's journey, which should absolutely and unequivocally not be influenced by him in any way, shape or form. Like I've said before, Musk is the villain in a show like The Expanse who creates a offshoot of humanity known as Belters to power his giga space corporations. I mean, the dude already names his factories Gigafactory 1, etc.

Your subjective hatred for this guy knows almost no bounds. It's not quite funny to watch you just unwind on him. Successful businessman and documented engineer/scientist, richest man in the world - and according to you he's just some worm that got lucky. Do you even hear yourself?

You're so blinded by your hate for Musk you mocked his B.A. in physics. I'm really not sure how much anything you say about Musk can be taken seriously at this point.

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Paypal was already successful before him, and in fact bought out Musk's company. Tesla was already founded and financially funded, until he wormed his way onto the board. And I utterly reject that he brought electric cars to the forefront - there was already big strides in electric vehiclemaking...he literally just Steve Jobs'd it to make it cool.

Paypay wasn't successful until Musk merged with them and his X.com company.

[eschatological]

What? Where are you even getting this stuff? He earned his way onto those Boards. Which boards were he "kicked out of"? Can you link?

Ashlee Vance wrote a great book about Musk. His first company, Zip2 was merged into and absorbed by CitySearch. He tried to oust the CEO, and failed: https://www.zdnet.com/article/cityse...-million-deal/, as documented in Vance's book. That CEO guided the company to acquisition by Compaq.

When Compaq bought out CitySearch, Musk founded X.com, in 1999, and was ousted by the board by the end of the year in favor of, yanno, an actual guy who knew shit about shit (Bill Harris, of Intuit). Then, the company merged with Confinity, one of Peter Thiel's ventures, which had created PayPal, which had much wider success than X.com. Musk became CEO of this merged company (under the X.com banner). He rubbed Thiel so wrong (who is a notorious asshole himself) that Thiel resigned, but the board STILL ousted Musk and brought back Thiel in September 2000. Thiel refocused and rebranded to Paypal.com, and brought it to acquisition by eBay in 2002. Musk made $100m from that, and used it to found SpaceX.

In its first 10 years, SpaceX secured $1B in funding despite doing work that had been done 40 years ago (in terms of unmanned launches, the reusable rockets came like 15 years after SpaceX's founding). Musk contributed about $100m, secured another $100m from private funding....and the other $800m came from literal government funding.

This is all public knowledge.

And yes, you need an actual degree in engineering before I consider you an engineer. At least a mechanical engineer - lots of software engineers are self-taught, but not generally mechanical engineers, which is....literally what SpaceX is doing.

[cubby]

Ashlee Vance wrote a great book about Musk. His first company, Zip2 was merged into and absorbed by CitySearch. He tried to oust the CEO, and failed: https://www.zdnet.com/article/cityse...-million-deal/, as documented in Vance's book. That CEO guided the company to acquisition by Compaq.

Gotcha - and thanks for the source.

When Compaq bought out CitySearch, Musk founded X.com, in 1999, and was ousted by the board by the end of the year in favor of, yanno, an actual guy who knew shit about shit (Bill Harris, of Intuit). Then, the company merged with Confinity, one of Peter Thiel's ventures, which had created PayPal, which had much wider success than X.com. Musk became CEO of this merged company (under the X.com banner). He rubbed Thiel so wrong (who is a notorious asshole himself) that Thiel resigned, but the board STILL ousted Musk and brought back Thiel in September 2000. Thiel refocused and rebranded to Paypal.com, and brought it to acquisition by eBay in 2002. Musk made $100m from that, and used it to found SpaceX.

Why did they bring Musk back as CEO if he was, according to you, such a douchebag. And Musk was still a part of the success of Paypal.

In its first 10 years, SpaceX secured $1B in funding despite doing work that had been done 40 years ago (in terms of unmanned launches, the reusable rockets came like 15 years after SpaceX's founding). Musk contributed about $100m, secured another $100m from private funding....and the other $800m came from literal government funding.

And your point is...that Musk founded the first private company to launch into orbit, to dock with the Space Station - the first person ever to successfully land a rocket back on Earth. It's like you know all his successes, and just skip over them because you're so blinded by hate for him. You even mocked his B.A. in Physics....

This is all public knowledge.

They why don't you list it all - instead of just carving out all the pieces that don't include his successes?

And yes, you need an actual degree in engineering before I consider you an engineer. At least a mechanical engineer - lots of software engineers are self-taught, but not generally mechanical engineers, which is....literally what SpaceX is doing.

Then you'd be the only one.

You can earn your Professional Engineer (P.E.) designation without a degree. Musk is literally an engineer, a wildly successful businessman, and a genius - the fact that you don't recognize him as one just demonstrates your subjective hatred for him, and mires all the other points you end up failing to make.

Musk might be a douchebag personally, but that's a separate issue.

[eschatological]

Why did they bring Musk back as CEO if he was, according to you, such a douchebag. And Musk was still a part of the success of Paypal.

Because he literally is a shrewd businessman and a slick, intellectual talker. Like he tried to oust the CEO of CitySearch (and failed), he succeeded in gaining that CEO in early Confinity days. He lasted like a year and a few months, before the board ousted because his business strategy sucked.

And your point is...that Musk founded the first private company to launch into orbit, to dock with the Space Station - the first person ever to successfully land a rocket back on Earth. It's like you know all his successes, and just skip over them because you're so blinded by hate for him. You even mocked his B.A. in Physics....

From the very beginning he had Tom Mueller, an actual engineer, in SpaceX, and other people actually designing the rocket. He was, as far as I can tell, a Product Architect at Tesla (the equivalent of a CPO/CTO), which isn't an engineering position but a BUSINESS position, and I can't find any reference of him actually having a hand in designing the Falcon 1 or anything since. I don't dispute that he has some very talented people working at SpaceX. What I dispute is that his visionary "genius" actually translated into the actual rockets launched, instead of his business acumen, which is built on.....well, coming from a very privileged background.

Then you'd be the only one.

You can earn your Professional Engineer (P.E.) designation without a degree. Musk is literally an engineer, a wildly successful businessman, and a genius - the fact that you don't recognize him as one just demonstrates your subjective hatred for him, and mires all the other points you end up failing to make.

Musk might be a douchebag personally, but that's a separate issue.

Does he actually have that P.E. designation? Oh, and that link you cited states that the requirements are a relevant degree in engineering in some states, and where they aren't required, you're required to have relevant work engineering experience. I don't know if Elon Musk could even qualify to sit for this exam. As far as I can tell, his B.A. in Physics isn't accredited by the EAC, who determines eligiblity for the P.E. exam.

I don't think I hate Musk. I just see him for what he is - an unscrupulous businessman. And not a particularly moral one at that (if such a businessman exists). He ranks, imo, in the category of the Mark Zuckerbergs of the world. That's my problem with his personality - that it translates into his morality, and his direct business interests intersect with an important, eschatological step for humanity, which he would undoubtably try and corrupt to the best of his ability. I could give a shit about Apple or Facebook because ultimately those are products which you choose to engage in or not. FB has become harmful in its ubiquitousness as an all-encompassing news source with massive reach, and Zuckerberg's moral ineptitude has directly affected the shitshow which has resulted from that, which I know you know. I see the same course for human space expansion and Musk, but to much direr consequences, because said expansion is the next step of human civilization.

[Cosmic Janitor]

FB has become harmful in its ubiquitousness as an all-encompassing news source with massive reach, and Zuckerberg's moral ineptitude has directly affected the shitshow which has resulted from that, which I know you know. I see the same course for human space expansion and Musk, but to much direr consequences, because said expansion is the next step of human civilization.

While it's a bit off topic and I pretty much agree with the rest of your post(s) here verbatim, I have to disagree with this one. I think the immediate harm to our species - or at least current culture - by having technology interrupt the way our societies function on a fundamental level (communication), at incredible speeds, without a chance for our ethics to properly catch up with it, is way more harmful than any negatives we might see for and from the future of space exploration.

Realistically space exploration will not yield anything for the forseeable future. The required resources and the limitations of our species make any significant foray into space a rather cost prohibitive endeavor. Without some scifi tech we are just fundamentally not build for space and neither are we likely to solve the physical hurdles we have to overcome to get any tangible benefit (like space mining/colonialization) from it in our life-times. Contrary to that I'd go as far and say that the sociological damage caused by facebook and others already exceeds anything anyone could achieve in space for the next couple of decades.

The worst Musk could do is scam people out of money and lives in his hare-brained schemes to colonialize Mars or make people travel via what amounts to ICBMs. None of that will matter after a while, because neither business model is sustainable (or to be put into practice to begin with). The (maybe even unwitting) social engineering Zuckerberg, Bezos & co. have done on the other hand will keep shaping up society and may topple countries or at least cultures in the future and actually affect our species negatively.

[JohnBrown1917]

He certainly doesn't seem to be a winner in the personality arena. Professionally, of course, he's a genius. Not sure when you measure it all out it rates a "fucking scumbag" rating, but it's also not "nobel peace prize" either.

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Agreed. I hope SpaceX is throwing $5k-$10k relocation packages at people who decide to take a job and move down to TX. I love SpaceX, and there job openings I would qualify quite well for, and I wouldn't move to TX for a job at SpaceX.

(yet)

lol being rich does not make you a genius.

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All True, while my personal opinion of him has waned there is no taking away his actual accomplishments even if it's arguable what some suggest those accomplishments are, I do agree with you on your points.

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e

Spend money on engineers that do all the work, thats all he has done. And he is not even doing it to help mankind(look at his union busting or Corona response, that man does not give any fucks about anybody but himself). He just wants to be the king of mars or some bullshit weirdo fantasy.

[Shadowferal]

"Space travel is an exciting idea, but right now we need to focus on Earth and create a progressive tax system so that children don't go hungry, people are not homeless and all Americans have healthcare. The level of inequality in America is obscene and a threat to our democracy."
~Bernie Sanders

https://mobile.twitter.com/BernieSan...99911783477253

Responses are similar to what I see here.

[Santti]

"Space travel is an exciting idea, but right now we need to focus on Earth and create a progressive tax system so that children don't go hungry, people are not homeless and all Americans have healthcare. The level of inequality in America is obscene and a threat to our democracy."
~Bernie Sanders

https://mobile.twitter.com/BernieSan...99911783477253

Responses are similar to what I see here.

Porque no los dos?

[Shadowferal]

Why not both? I believe there's an inference on taxing his net worth.

[Endus]

In my mind someone who wants to describe themself as a "futurist" should be far more magnanimous in their conduct. Most of what I learn of Musk is... kind of skeeving.

Like pulling up stakes out of California because he didn't like how they were attempting to combat a global lethal pandemic and to personally enrich himself further, and then trying to draw people out of a progressive state to a far more regressive one that lacks the intellectual infrastructure that he previously profited off of and requires to operate his business.

I'd call Disney a futurist, but it's clear that he was a bit too starry-eyed and politically juvenile to truly service futurism. But Musk is too shrewd for that, hence why I ascribe his personality more to a sort of self-interested and cold Zuckerberg.

If I had to compare Musk to any historical figure, the one I think comes closest is Howard Hughes. Same kind of wealth, same kind of fuck-it attitude to his business ventures, same kind of wide spread of interests, though Hughes tended more towards "weird eccentricity" where Musk leans more into "douchebro".

He's still going to be one of the most important figures of the early 21st century, in the history books of the future. Greatness does not imply goodness.

On this particular point, though, it's definitely "douchebro" territory. You want to convince people to move to Texas to work for you? Offer bigger bonuses/better pay/better incentives. Don't whine about it in the media. Put your money where your mouth is, Musk. As much as I hate capitalism, that's how the game is played; put up or shut up.

[Sorensen]

Elon is daddy I might move down there just for funzies.