Artifact Power is gone: Anima are garrison/order/war resources redux

[paxen]

One thing that comes up a lot when thinking about what is off about SL is that the AP grind is as bad as ever. I've been guilty thinking that myself. But the AP of Legion/BfA is nearly gone; Anima gives no player power beyond the catchup covenant armor upgrades. It is instead very similar to resources.

I think a lot of people are happy to see the AP grind gone, but initially in SL it felt like it was just replaced by anima, and I think that's because you needed to grind 1k anima every week to keep up with Renown. Now that "catchup" renown is fully in force, ie the two weekly quests are just two of many ways to get renown, we can see that Anima has close to zero effect on player power. It is now an expanded version of resources that gives you base upgrades, but also mounts and cosmetics.

But maybe AP didn't go completely away? There *is* a grindable currency that has a direct effect on player power: Soul Ash. Grinding Torghast for Soul Ash is very comparable to grinding Expeditions for Azerite; an actually necessary chore that you're "forced" to do. Soul Ash is at the very least a much lesser grind than AP, as there's a "soft cap" of 5150 to max out your best legendary, which is about 10 runs on layer 8 for any alts you want to get up to speed.

I think the discussion about the pros and cons of SL can be clarified a lot by recognizing Soul Ash as the new AP, and Anima as the new garrison resources.

[Nathanyel]

Congratulations, you have realized what Blizzard themselves told us when announcing Shadowlands.

initially in SL it felt like it was just replaced by anima, and I think that's because you needed to grind 1k anima every week to keep up with Renown.

Catchup Renown was always active, so you didn't "have to" grind Anima, as your first Calling after the next reset would give you that point of Renown as well - Souls quest is another matter, as there is no catchup for souls, but like Soul Ash, has a certain soft cap (which we haven't reached yet)

[schwarzkopf]

The big difference is that Anima isn't a grind and for the most part doesn't affect player power.

[The Cheat]

Souls quest is another matter, as there is no catchup for souls, but like Soul Ash, has a certain soft cap (which we haven't reached yet)

We have, actually. 2-3 weeks ago was the reset where it was first possible to completely max the sanctum. Souls have no purpose after that.

[paxen]

Congratulations, you have realized what Blizzard themselves told us when announcing Shadowlands.

Looking at all the discussion on SL right now it needs to be said again.

- - - Updated - - -

The big difference is that Anima isn't a grind and for the most part doesn't affect player power.

...that's what I'm saying, yes.

[LordVargK]

It's pretty sad that Soul Ash is not earned like Valor/Conquest, with a weekly increasing cap. Having Torghast as a chore and not a fun activity you do when you want kinda defeats the otherwise great idea of Torghast. Also Twisted Corridors could give Soul Ash the same way the normal Layers do, every boss drops the ash. Just let me make my weekly cap in TC....

And yes. This thread is necessary and is hopefully read by everyone complaining about the anima grind.

[rhorle]

We have, actually. 2-3 weeks ago was the reset where it was first possible to completely max the sanctum. Souls have no purpose after that.

I wish they switch the reward to Anima after that rather then having to wait till you hit the 100 cap to get the 500 anima from the weekly.

[paxen]

Also Twisted Corridors could give Soul Ash the same way the normal Layers do, every boss drops the ash. Just let me make my weekly cap in TC....

That would have been so fun. Probably needs some tuning though - early floors in TC are rather easy, but I'm not quite sure about the balance vs normal torgh?

[LordVargK]

That would have been so fun. Probably needs some tuning though - early floors in TC are rather easy, but I'm not quite sure about the balance vs normal torgh?

I don't think that's too important, because the players would have the choice of what to do. Early floor TC would give less Ash, like normal Torgh does. So 1 TC run would give 2-3 times the amount of Ash as a normal run. 2 currently, 3 if there is ever a catchup for Soul Ash.

[The Cheat]

I wish they switch the reward to Anima after that rather then having to wait till you hit the 100 cap to get the 500 anima from the weekly.

Agreed. But their intent with Anima has clearly been to force us to grind as long as possible for the cosmetics/mounts/pets that we were otherwise able to get by playing the rest of the regular game. The fact that all sanctum upgrade costs basically doubled from early beta is indicative of this.

[Nathanyel]

Looking at all the discussion on SL right now it needs to be said again.

And yes. This thread is necessary and is hopefully read by everyone complaining about the anima grind.

Well, obviously. But I fear those that do need to know this, do not want to understand it.

[Asrialol]

My main and two alts has just above 110k anima sitting in them in total atm, nothing worth spending them on and since I can't use it to improve my chars, it's just sitting there. Guess I could upgrade covenant further, but there's no point doing that.

Anima is entirely optional, even more so now than before.

[Gaidax]

It is another War Resources.

People are trying to grind this shit out right now, but they just don't get it - we will be swimming in that shit passively two content patches from now. You will be able to buy out all the cosmetics and shit at close to no effort in 9.3.

[shise]

You forgot a detail: You do not need anima for anything, unless you want to get its rewards. No reward comes without work/grind/rng... ever, on any game.
So this is actually great.

The only grind in Shadowlands is Ash. It is tedious because the only way to obtain it is by clearing trash for a good couple of hours or more every week. And Torghast is always teh same thing, it does not "change" as they claimed from the start... lol, couple of different depuffs, mobs and map layouts.

[Eosia]

The problem with the Anima grind is it lacks an acceleration that Artifact/Azerite Power had. It does not need to be as steep as the Legion/BfA AP ones were, but it should be there.

[GnomeEU]

Just pvp and you get loads of anima

[Raugnaut]

1k anima is not a "grind" unless you wanted to get it all done in a single day.

Keep in mind that you got almost ALL of the anima just by doing normal weekly things.

250 anima from weekly World Boss.
It used to be 350 anima for a full raid or 10 M+ clears, giving you 600 anima total.
Then an extra 350 anima for 2 specific dungeon clears.

This left you at 50 anima to get from other sources, basically your "callings"

Now? You get your full 1000 anima from JUST a full raid clear or full 10 M+.

PvP players had anima EZ mode the entirety of the expansion, easily able to get nearly 10k anima/week JUST from daily PvP

[Gaidax]

The problem with the Anima grind is it lacks an acceleration that Artifact/Azerite Power had. It does not need to be as steep as the Legion/BfA AP ones were, but it should be there.

It's there. We got more anima rewards as part of covenant progression, as well as additional table quests for more anima.

It's slow now because it's 9.0, just like War Resources were. By 9.3 there will be more Anima sources to the point everyone will be able to get everything pretty fast, if they want. People just don't get it - this shitty cosmetic piece for 5k Anima now seems like a big deal, but in 9.3 5k Anima will be like 500-1000 Anima now.

[Accendor]

One thing that comes up a lot when thinking about what is off about SL is that the AP grind is as bad as ever. I've been guilty thinking that myself. But the AP of Legion/BfA is nearly gone; Anima gives no player power beyond the catchup covenant armor upgrades. It is instead very similar to resources.

I think a lot of people are happy to see the AP grind gone, but initially in SL it felt like it was just replaced by anima, and I think that's because you needed to grind 1k anima every week to keep up with Renown. Now that "catchup" renown is fully in force, ie the two weekly quests are just two of many ways to get renown, we can see that Anima has close to zero effect on player power. It is now an expanded version of resources that gives you base upgrades, but also mounts and cosmetics.

But maybe AP didn't go completely away? There *is* a grindable currency that has a direct effect on player power: Soul Ash. Grinding Torghast for Soul Ash is very comparable to grinding Expeditions for Azerite; an actually necessary chore that you're "forced" to do. Soul Ash is at the very least a much lesser grind than AP, as there's a "soft cap" of 5150 to max out your best legendary, which is about 10 runs on layer 8 for any alts you want to get up to speed.

I think the discussion about the pros and cons of SL can be clarified a lot by recognizing Soul Ash as the new AP, and Anima as the new garrison resources.

Soul ash "grind" can currently be finished in 4 weeks, with less than 1h playtime a week. Hey, lets just get all lot straight out the mailbox

- - - Updated - - -

You forgot a detail: You do not need anima for anything, unless you want to get its rewards. No reward comes without work/grind/rng... ever, on any game.
So this is actually great.

The only grind in Shadowlands is Ash. It is tedious because the only way to obtain it is by clearing trash for a good couple of hours or more every week. And Torghast is always teh same thing, it does not "change" as they claimed from the start... lol, couple of different depuffs, mobs and map layouts.

Dude that's just bs. Over you get a char to 60 you finish your campaign quest and do 2x layer 8 if you got nice gear from AH/WQs or 2x layer 6 if not. Takes 30 min per clear. Next week its 2x layer 8 because it's basically impossible to not have enough gear now because of the campaign. From then on its 2x30 minutes per week for 4 weeks total.
3 if you do table missions.

[clevin]

Agreed. But their intent with Anima has clearly been to force us to grind as long as possible for the cosmetics/mounts/pets that we were otherwise able to get by playing the rest of the regular game. The fact that all sanctum upgrade costs basically doubled from early beta is indicative of this.

Sigh. People, you all need to grow the F up and exercise some damn willpower. No one is forcing you to do this. You choose to, because you want the cosmetics. I don't care about any of the sanctum upgrades or cosmetics and... I have 21k anima just from incidental stuff I do. It's irrelevant to me and I'll likely hit cap at some point because I DON'T care about that stuff.


You do want it? Great, then you have chosen (not were forced to but freely chose) to pursue something that means you need to get anima. You can grind for it or you can let it come as you do other stuff you want to do.