In-game Raider.io score

[crusadernero]

Yay! Yet another ingame feature for the boosters to run people through!

Its nice that Blizzard puts this in game, but lets not kid ourself. With how big boosting has become, this will be yet another feature with some kind of score that people will spend gold on. Get carried until high enough score/rank = great success.

[chiddie]

This isn't a problem that needs a solution. If people want to carry others, then let them.

I don't think it's a particularly rampant problem to begin with, but there are also plenty of situations in which it is perfectly appropriate anyway; what if someone with 1.8k score wants to run some 2s for valor? It shouldn't be expected that he'd wait until he found similar people who happen to also want to run baby keys.

This scenario isn't super common and it's not harming anyone. It's also something that if someone really is obsesively worried about grouping with someone who got carried at some point, they can solve by checking someone's past key groups.

The scenario is maybe not common globally but it’s quite the standard in 13-15 bracket. Constantly seeing 1500+ rio applying to those levels, of course people with 1100-1200 rio will be almost always declined.

If you only pug and you’re trying to get KSM, it’s annoying.

[crusadernero]

This isn't a problem that needs a solution. If people want to carry others, then let them.

I don't think it's a particularly rampant problem to begin with, but there are also plenty of situations in which it is perfectly appropriate anyway; what if someone with 1.8k score wants to run some 2s for valor? It shouldn't be expected that he'd wait until he found similar people who happen to also want to run baby keys.

This scenario isn't super common and it's not harming anyone. It's also something that if someone really is obsesively worried about grouping with someone who got carried at some point, they can solve by checking someone's past key groups.

Maybe it doesnt need a solution, maybe the playerbase is perfectly fine with boosting being the norm and "the way to do it" at max level. I've seen streamers having no issues spending millions of gold on carries to get gear, gold they obviously got from the wow token.

We all just gotta remember that these rankings, scores or achivs doesnt really tell anything. I have done many raids/m+ with people that had high rio scores and were acting like total shitbirds berating everyone below theyre rank, but themself are really really bad. I see this more and more. People got titles, mounts, achivs and whatnot that they should never, ever have.

Boosting devalues everything in the game and gives everything no meaning. I see people on mythic/AOTC mounts? Yeah, boosted. Thats my first thought, not that they are decent players.

Personally i'd rather miss out on achivs, titles & mounts instead of outright getting carried.

[Tziva]

The scenario is maybe not common globally but it’s quite the standard in 13-15 bracket. Constantly seeing 1400+ rio applying to those levels, of course people with 1100-1200 rio will be almost always declined.

If you only pug, it’s annoying.

1400 is not inappropriate for that level range. 1400 means that you have, like, all 15s and some 16s. They might have gotten done on an easy push week and might not be capable of on other weeks so are sticking to lower keys usually, or they might just simply not be interested in pushing higher. That divide definitely isn't large enough that I'd label it as them doing carry runs, being overqualified, much less an "insane rio" for those key levels.

Sure, it makes it hard to get into keys when you're first pushing into that bracket when there are "better" people applying but again, that is simply an issue of the volume of people you're competing against and that's going to be a problem everywhere. There's often going to be someone with a slightly better score or slightly higher ilvl or slightly more appealing spec. All you can do is keep trying. The solution isn't to block people from signing up for keys that aren't push keys for them is causing more problems than it solves.

[Tziva]

Maybe it doesnt need a solution, maybe the playerbase is perfectly fine with boosting being the norm and "the way to do it" at max level. I've seen streamers having no issues spending millions of gold on carries to get gear, gold they obviously got from the wow token.

We all just gotta remember that these rankings, scores or achivs doesnt really tell anything. I have done many raids/m+ with people that had high rio scores and were acting like total shitbirds berating everyone below theyre rank, but themself are really really bad. I see this more and more. People got titles, mounts, achivs and whatnot that they should never, ever have.

Boosting devalues everything in the game and gives everything no meaning. I see people on mythic/AOTC mounts? Yeah, boosted. Thats my first thought, not that they are decent players.

You're talking about something different. There is a big difference between buying a mythic mount via a boost, and a guy who normally runs 15 keys jumping into a 10 key for whatever reason and "carrying" the 10-appropriate players that are there. That's is the context really being discussed here, and I don't think it's a big deal. You pug a lot, sometimes you get carried by good or overqualified players, sometimes you are the person that carries. It just happens. It's the nature of PuGing. I don't think it needs a "solution," I think blocking overqualified people from signing up for content that is "beneath them" causes more harm in an attempt to solve a nonissue.

Selling boosts is another issue and not super relevant in this context. Personally, I don't give a fuck if someone wants to spend their gold to buy some keystones instead of just... running them for free. I think it's dumb, and I don't really get why it is so popular, but it also doesn't harm anyone either. But again, that's really not what people are talking about.

[epLe]

Good players never needed Toxic.IO, they find their group amongst guildies and friends as they always have.

Only people with an inflated view on themself, who tries to judge people they do not know, have any use for this tool.

The tool's inherit usage is mainly to be judgemental and toxic.

[Gaidax]

It’s an issue because as I said yesterday he contributes to “steal” the spot towards an average dude that could perfectly do that level of difficulty but has “only proper rio instead of insane rio”.

If graduated people massively apply for basic jobs not requiring graduation, how ppl without graduation are supposed to find a job? Of course it’s an exaggeration but follow the idea.

"Steal a spot"? They got just as much right to that spot as anyone else from the get go. Your 1k RIO greenhorn will have to live with that fact.

[crusadernero]

Good players never needed Toxic.IO, they find their group amongst guildies and friends as they always have.

Only people with an inflated view on themself, who tries to judge people they do not know, have any use for this tool.

The tool's inherit usage is mainly to be judgemental and toxic.

True! Never used IO, never have never will. I've played with those on friends list or joined guild groups. I have no idea what my score would be, nor do I care.

[Vasilisa]

Good players never needed Toxic.IO, they find their group amongst guildies and friends as they always have.

Only people with an inflated view on themself, who tries to judge people they do not know, have any use for this tool.

Oh the irony...

[Tziva]

Good players never needed Toxic.IO, they find their group amongst guildies and friends as they always have.

Only people with an inflated view on themself, who tries to judge people they do not know, have any use for this tool.

The tool's inherit usage is mainly to be judgemental and toxic.

I find it mildly amusing that the people in this thread with the most vitriol are the ones calling everyone else toxic. I think yall need to take a step back and look at your own atttitudes. Posts like this are judgemental and toxic.

All most of us using the tool want is to try to make a painful pugging experience a little less awful by finding players who are similar players to endure it with. Sure, there are assholes out there, but assholes are going to asshole regardless of the context. They existed before raider.io and they will exist after.

[czarek]

Its more or less pvp rating for m+ >< but imo this whole idea of scoreing in WoW went to far. Its damn MMO not FPS. Its self game genre has been lost.

[Feral Druid ist Op]

The scenario is maybe not common globally but it’s quite the standard in 13-15 bracket. Constantly seeing 1500+ rio applying to those levels, of course people with 1100-1200 rio will be almost always declined.

If you only pug and you’re trying to get KSM, it’s annoying.

Those ppl (me included) that applying for 12-15 keys are farming items they miss cuz of Valor upgrades, biggest offender are DoS and PF that drop better trinkets than mythic raids. And even a 220 bis stat item is better than a 226 dog stat item so you see some farming 1-2 off pieces they miss (Rings and necks are the big ones).

[crusadernero]

Its more or less pvp rating for m+ >< but imo this whole idea of scoreing in WoW went to far. Its damn MMO not FPS. Its self game genre has been lost.

Its become a world filled with lobbies that have ranks tied to it. Get rank or die trying.

[Nite92]

Yep - making it harder to get M+ runs will now be built into the game.

Fan bloody tastic.

Hf, making groups for +15s at this point in the tier, when everyones' ilvl is inflated to 220-223, even though the highest key they did was a +12.

Without R.io, each pugged m+ is even more a gamble than it is now.
BTW, it is not the fault of raider.io you do get into keys. It is the unwillingness of people making their own groups. I just plugged a +15 HoA in the tool, and within 5 minutes I got 25+ applicants, all 218+, some barely got a few +12s timed, so they literally have no idea what is going on the dungeons. They just overgear the fuck out of them, and at some point, overgearing is not enough.

R.io is necessary, since ilvl is worthless when trying to determine if someone is capable of doing a higher key.

[chiddie]

1400 is not inappropriate for that level range. 1400 means that you have, like, all 15s and some 16s. They might have gotten done on an easy push week and might not be capable of on other weeks so are sticking to lower keys usually, or they might just simply not be interested in pushing higher. That divide definitely isn't large enough that I'd label it as them doing carry runs, being overqualified, much less an "insane rio" for those key levels.

Sure, it makes it hard to get into keys when you're first pushing into that bracket when there are "better" people applying but again, that is simply an issue of the volume of people you're competing against and that's going to be a problem everywhere. There's often going to be someone with a slightly better score or slightly higher ilvl or slightly more appealing spec. All you can do is keep trying. The solution isn't to block people from signing up for keys that aren't push keys for them is causing more problems than it solves.

Infact I said that blocking ppl is NOT a solution. But the problem exists indeed.

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"Steal a spot"? They got just as much right to that spot as anyone else from the get go. Your 1k RIO greenhorn will have to live with that fact.

Where did I say they have no rights? I simply said that by doing so they are preventing others to do the content they are supposed to do at their level.

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Those ppl (me included) that applying for 12-15 keys are farming items they miss cuz of Valor upgrades, biggest offender are DoS and PF that drop better trinkets than mythic raids. And even a 220 bis stat item is better than a 226 dog stat item so you see some farming 1-2 off pieces they miss (Rings and necks are the big ones).

Again I’m fine with this. The game allows it, it’s just ok. I know why ppl with insane rio are applying to lower brackets, not a problem.

BUT people that are continuing to deny that this legit behavior causes issues to others in pug is really childish.

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Hf, making groups for +15s at this point in the tier, when everyones' ilvl is inflated to 220-223, even though the highest key they did was a +12.

Without R.io, each pugged m+ is even more a gamble than it is now.
BTW, it is not the fault of raider.io you do get into keys. It is the unwillingness of people making their own groups. I just plugged a +15 HoA in the tool, and within 5 minutes I got 25+ applicants, all 218+, some barely got a few +12s timed, so they literally have no idea what is going on the dungeons. They just overgear the fuck out of them, and at some point, overgearing is not enough.

R.io is necessary, since ilvl is worthless when trying to determine if someone is capable of doing a higher key.

Not that rio is perfect, else everyone doing a key of someone else would have high chances to time it because supposedly the key holder is using rio and picked up proper people. As you know it’s really not the case. My failure rate in 13-14 using others keys is about 50%. Rio only tells one part of the story.

But it’s better than nothing for sure.

[Scarnage86]

I read the news yestarday and last evening on guild discord was a total crazynutshell (even if all the guildy as frozen months ago we keep loggin togheter)
so Activion-Blizzard forced SBMM Warzone to close, a site that calculate the rating and mmr of player.
And now Activions-blizzard is making r.io integration in-game???
Is this some kind of joke? This decision make no sense.... We think that after Call of duty mmr site got closed, r.io was the next one... How that happens?

[ellieg]

Infact I said that blocking ppl is NOT a solution. But the problem exists indeed.

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Where did I say they have no rights? I simply said that by doing so they are preventing others to do the content they are supposed to do at their level.

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Again I’m fine with this. The game allows it, it’s just ok. I know why ppl with insane rio are applying to lower brackets, not a problem.

BUT people that are continuing to deny that this legit behavior causes issues to others in pug is really childish.

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Not that rio is perfect, else everyone doing a key of someone else would have high chances to time it because supposedly the key holder is using rio and picked up proper people. As you know it’s really not the case. My failure rate in 13-14 using others keys is about 50%. Rio only tells one part of the story.

But it’s better than nothing for sure.

I know you don't want to hear it but if you're failing 50% of keys, i don't think its other players problem.

[Nite92]

My failure rate in 13-14 using others keys is about 50%..

That is why you make your own groups, and easily reach 80-90% success rates.

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I know you don't want to hear it but if you're failing 50% of keys, i don't think its other players problem.

Yep, that is definitely true as well.

[Wuusah]

This isn't a problem that needs a solution. If people want to carry others, then let them.

Exactly. It's not a problem that needs fixing. The fix is very simple: make your own group and invite whoever you like. Or join a group, look at the rio score of your mates and then decide whether you want to do that run or not. Usually it's not a problem to have a higher rio player in that group but they can get very toxic very quickly when some stuff gets messed up because they are way ahead in experience and from their point of view it's easy stuff that people mess up. It depends on the player how they react. Some are chill and helpful, others throw a fit. I think oftentimes people just invite the highest rio they can get and then have a surprised pikachu face when that high rio player not only can't salvage bad pulls but also doesn't have the patience to stay in a group that continuously plays bad. That's for 10-15s. In 2s, a good dps can completely carry the run on its own.

Good players never needed Toxic.IO, they find their group amongst guildies and friends as they always have.

Only people with an inflated view on themself, who tries to judge people they do not know, have any use for this tool.

The tool's inherit usage is mainly to be judgemental and toxic.

What if your guildies and friends aren't on or are busy at the moment but you want to do a dungeon? How do you invite random players into your group without being judgmental and toxic? Are you rolling dice?

I read the news yestarday and last evening on guild discord was a total crazynutshell (even if all the guildy as frozen months ago we keep loggin togheter)
so Activion-Blizzard forced SBMM Warzone to close, a site that calculate the rating and mmr of player.
And now Activions-blizzard is making r.io integration in-game???
Is this some kind of joke? This decision make no sense.... We think that after Call of duty mmr site got closed, r.io was the next one... How that happens?

It might surprise you but Activision Blizzard is a publisher. These are completely different dev teams working on completely different games. Activision Blizzard is not some puppet master controlling the tiniest movements with their strings.

[Kaver]

Sorry, I don't think you're in any place to speak for the PuG community or talk about what they experience or how social they are, as someone who doesn't PuG and has zero experience in that area. In my experience, this simply isn't true, and it definitely isn't inherently true because many of us have a very different experience.

(fwiw, I use LFG to find those players)


That some groups do both raiding and mythic plus is not support for the blanket statement that "if you're in a good guild you won't need to PuG." I'm sure there are plenty of raiding guilds that also do mythic plus. There are probably pvp guilds that also raid. But that still doesn't make the statement accurate as a general rule.

One might be in a great guild and still find themselves in a position where they want to do content that is outside the guild's focus and not have enough other people interested. One might be in a great guild but find that their free time to do outside activities doesn't match up with other people. One might be in a great guild and find out that while other people want to do that content, they don't want to do it as seriously or frequently as them. One might be in a great guild that has a lot of people who want to do that content, have the same schedule, and would love to do it all day long, but its seven dps with no tanks or healers.

A guild is a wonderful thing to connect you to other players and give you other people to play with, but it isn't reasonable to expect that most guilds are going to be full of people who want to do all the same things as you, as much as you, at the exact same time as you, and have all the right people and in the right roles to do so, always. You should expect to be able to play with guildies some or even most of the time, but not all of the time if you like doing content that is outside the guild's primary focus.

(I don't even know why you're talking about boosting or paying for runs. PuGing is not synonymous with paid runs/boosts. All it means is playing with an impromptu group of strangers)

We are talking about two different things. I'm all in for M+ communities. As long as you're connecting with other people then it doesn't matter if it's in a guild or some other kind of community. That's not what I'm talking about. And when I say "good guild" you could might as well replace that with "good m+ community". Because in the end it serves the same purpose and is good for the social aspect of the game. The most important thing is for people to connect and recognize the player sitting on the other side of the computer screen. So you're completely misunderstanding my intend here.

My critique is of the large part of the wow playerbase that treat wow as a single-player game and treat other players as NPCs. These are the type of people I talk about when I say the pugging environment is toxic and harmful to the social aspects of the game. And these players want to Blizzard adapt the game to their anti social approach. But this is obviously not applicable to you and type of m+ communities you're in. I only used Guilds as an example because it's the most traditional way for people to connect in wow. But other communities work just as well. The problem is people who refuse to socialize with other players in any way and expect the game to cater to them.

Let me finish off by saying, the way you approach pugging is very good. You're able to play with "random people" and still retain the social aspects of the game. The problem is that you are a rarity in relation to the entire player base. The majority of people don't say anything other than "hi" when they join a pug. And with auto queue systems in place they don't even say "hi".