Is WoW Pay 2 Win?

[Stardrift]

So it isn't pay to win because the cash transaction is independent of the power transaction. Because one stays available even when the other does not.

Except, I'm paying Blizz cash so that I may receive power from someone, or something.

[rhorle]

Except, I'm paying Blizz cash so that I may receive power from someone, or something.

You just admitted that you pay cash for a token to maybe receive power. It is possible for there to be no power just as it is possible for there to be power. The cash is not going towards the purchase of power but the purchase of gold.

[TheRevenantHero]

107 pages mostly of one person who claims WoW isn't p2w for...reasons. If this was any other game, people would be saying it's absolutely p2w. But for some odd reason there's people who refuse to acknowledge that things like paid character boosts are blatantly p2w. I really don't understand the mentality.

[DeltrusDisc]

Right but you could also purchase gold and not have any power available to purchase. Like will shortly happen when 9.1 is released and carries have to wait until the teams get geared enough to carry others.

Oh please, lol.

Ok, so I won't be #1 to a mythic kill on the server, but I can get damned close and get cutting edge for sure.

That's pay to win enough for most people.

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107 pages mostly of one person who claims WoW isn't p2w for...reasons. If this was any other game, people would be saying it's absolutely p2w. But for some odd reason there's people who refuse to acknowledge that things like paid character boosts are blatantly p2w. I really don't understand the mentality.

WeLl DuDe In WoW wHaT tRuLy DeFiNeS wInNiNg AnYwAyS?/?/!1!

[arkanon]

107 pages mostly of one person who claims WoW isn't p2w for...reasons. If this was any other game, people would be saying it's absolutely p2w. But for some odd reason there's people who refuse to acknowledge that things like paid character boosts are blatantly p2w. I really don't understand the mentality.

It is extremely one sided, yes. To their credit, some of the individuals saying it wasnt P2W read the replies, thought it through and said "you know what, you are right, but that still doesnt bother me that its in the game" and some even went so far as to acknowledge that it is a P2W feature, but one that they have used themselves. For some reason, the last couple of people just cant accept it.

[rhorle]

Oh please, lol. Ok, so I won't be #1 to a mythic kill on the server, but I can get damned close and get cutting edge for sure. That's pay to win enough for most people.

So you think that people will be able to buy CE first week of the new raid? That it will be available in enough supply that anyone who wants it can buy it? The power isn't always available to buy with gold. So the token isn't always pay to win since you can pay and not win. Good enough for most people doesn't mean it is accurate.

[TheRevenantHero]

It is extremely one sided, yes. To their credit, some of the individuals saying it wasnt P2W read the replies, thought it through and said "you know what, you are right, but that still doesnt bother me that its in the game" and some even went so far as to acknowledge that it is a P2W feature, but one that they have used themselves. For some reason, the last couple of people just cant accept it.

That's the worst part. Yeah p2w isn't a good thing but like....there are plenty other reasons WoW sucks now that the paid character boost is small by comparison. But the diehards refuse to say ANYTHING negative about WoW.

[Stardrift]

You just admitted that you pay cash for a token to maybe receive power. It is possible for there to be no power just as it is possible for there to be power. The cash is not going towards the purchase of power but the purchase of gold.

No, I admitted I can purchase player power with cash

[rhorle]

No, I admitted I can purchase player power with cash

That's fine and all but I can also purchase power with gold I purchased with cash, when it becomes available.

But only when available. So it can't be pay to win if it requires a separate availability. Pay to maybe win is not a thing. Would like you to make it a thing?

[kaminaris]

No, I admitted I can purchase player power with cash

Like you always could. It doesn't really matter what you think it's ethical or not. For other players such possibility always existed, even without any conversion, just direct purchase.

Still doesn't give you advantage nor make you win. Those guys who sell you boosts have the advantage... and your money too.

[Drusin]

The same handful of people going on and on and on and on

honestly I'm waiting for a mod to "I think this has gone as far as it can go"

lol

[arkanon]

honestly I'm waiting for a mod to "I think this has gone as far as it can go"

lol

The problem is that only one side of the argument have a strong, consistent, and factual argument, and the other side a flip-flopping all over the place, constantly contradicting themselves and each other, and cant agree on anything other than "me love wow. wow good. wow no P2W. P2W bad"

I think this shambles sums it up quite nicely, and they are all in context, taken from just a couple of pages of this discussion from one user:

The ability to make gold isn't restricted by the time you've been playing the game.

The amount of gold you can make is lower

The potential is exactly the same for every player.

Character level, professions, class, alts, group of friends, etc all have impacts on gold gain.

It isn't restricted based on the time you've been playing the game

[rhorle]

I think this shambles sums it up quite nicely, and they are all in context, taken from just a couple of pages of this discussion from one user:

The ability to make gold is not restricted by the time you've played. A person that has played for 1 day has the ability to make gold in the game. Just as a person that has played 10 years has the ability to make gold. The amount being lower does not mean you lack the ability to make gold. The potential is always there. All level does is open up more possibilities but it doesn't change the ability to make gold.

A level 30 player can make more gold then a level 60 player if they know what they are doing. Buy low sell high is not restricted by level or time you've spent in the game. Just because you keep failing to understand that doesn't make it a shambles or a flip flop. WoW is pay to win but not from the token.

[Stardrift]

But only when available. So it can't be pay to win if it requires a separate availability. Pay to maybe win is not a thing. Would like you to make it a thing?

So it's limited for a couple weeks. Still can purchase for power

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Like you always could. It doesn't really matter what you think it's ethical or not. For other players such possibility always existed, even without any conversion, just direct purchase.

Still doesn't give you advantage nor make you win. Those guys who sell you boosts have the advantage... and your money too.

I'm not discussing whether or not I think it's ethical. I'm merely stating a fact.

[kaminaris]

I'm not discussing whether or not I think it's ethical. I'm merely stating a fact.

You are entitled to your opinion but the only fact here is that you do not know what "fact" is. Its ok if you consider wow p2w but in that case it was always p2w.

[Stardrift]

You are entitled to your opinion but the only fact here is that you do not know what "fact" is. Its ok if you consider wow p2w but in that case it was always p2w.

Technically, yes. You could pay third party websites. But you could receive a ban.

This time around, Blizz directly profits off it by selling gold.

[Malania]

I'm fairly sure this thread is now redundant and a new one needs to be created where we actually try to agree on what Pay to Win is since if we can't agree on what it actually is, how can we agree if the game is or isn't it.

[kaminaris]

Technically, yes. You could pay third party websites. But you could receive a ban.

This time around, Blizz directly profits off it by selling gold.

So not technically but factually. No ifs and buts.

I don't want to promote those websites (like its hard to google lol) but you can get rough idea that they are still fairly popular despite existence of token.
And I know people who still "work" there.

So it was always P2W. Doesn't matter you consider them unethical.

[Drusin]

I'm fairly sure this thread is now redundant and a new one needs to be created where we actually try to agree on what Pay to Win is.

That won't happen lol. You have people with opinions too different to come to a consensus. Some people say buying cosmetics is p2w others are strictly "power gains" everyone is just going to keep their opinion and go back and forth endlessly.

[chiddie]

Time. It saves you time. The most valuable resource in our life.

We discuss if something is P2W, without clarification about what is considered a win in WoW, or MMOs in general. So many people consider that "win" is only killing other players (wPvP or Arenas/BGs). But in a game where PvP realms where removed, and it always was PvE oriented, that aspect is not major anymore. People farm the best equipment, just to have it and to show off, or to farm the next best equipped. Also cosmetics, play a big role for many players.
So for me, it is not a matter of what is P2W, but what we want. How we will enjoy the game more.

For me, anything bought with real money, is not accepted. It ruins the immersion in a fantasy game. And it isn’t fair.
I also hate any kind of boosting for skipping content. Blizzard should make it impossible.

I also hate that someone can play 8 hours a day while I can play 1-1,5 when super lucky, but I’m not asking for a per day limit of /played for everyone.

Having more spare time to spend is not a skill, you have it or you don’t, why have I to be penalized for playing way less then average?