How to solve most looting issues in the game.

[Soon-TM]

How to solve loot issues:

“Just give me more loot that isn't completely at the mercy of RNG”

Yes, that's a fair statement.

[epigramx]

Cool, so it's the worse option: You get 7 out of 10 points waste every week that you can never use (plus some more from the first weeks). Great system.

Here's 10 week rundown of your point system:

Week 1 - 10 points, no items, enjoy
Week 2 - 20 points, no items, enjoy
Week 3 - 30 points, no items, enjoy
Week 4 - 40 minus 3 for an item; 37 points
Week 5 - 47 minus 3 for an item; 44 points
Week 6 - 54 minus 3 for an item; 51 points
Week 7 - 61 minus 3 for an item; 58 points
Week 8 - 68 minus 3 for an item; 65 points
Week 9 - 75 minus 3 for an item; 72 points
Week 10 - 82 minus 3 for an item; 79 points.

That argument makes no sense. The points are something I CAME UP WITH; why are you annoyed that "I would not use them all"(?); they exist because they would give MORE gear eventually.

You would be GUARANTEEED the gear you want each week after 3 kills; that is way more loot than now for almost all people; after week 4: every single vault piece may be very good.

- - - Updated - - -

Wow is designed to be mastered by groups of real-life friends. If

That would make sense if master loot still existed. And even then: only partly. It became ninja-looter in pugs AND the entire guild may not get good gear for you for a week.

[cparle87]

Such feature was called "Valor points" back when Wow was on it's peak. It was removed, because Blizzard decided, that it was soooooo boring to be able to work towards your goal. Don't get me wrong. My opinion: RNG isn't bad - RNG-gating is. RNG - is feature, that should make each gaming session different - not gate your rewards behind arbitrary unknown amount of attempts, causing Skinner chamber effect.

People hated valor vendors when they existed. Always complaining about how there were only one or two choices of their armor type with all the wrong stats, yadda yadda.

[epigramx]

People hated valor vendors when they existed. Always complaining about how there were only one or two choices of their armor type with all the wrong stats, yadda yadda.

Yes, and it makes it off topic here. We're talking about guaranteed getting the best gear of even sylvanas mythic after 3 kills; valor was just some filler lackluster gear; and it's very fair because after 3 kills it probably means you know what you're doing too (on the 1st kill of a boss most guilds were reckless with most dead).

[Soon-TM]

People hated valor vendors when they existed. Always complaining about how there were only one or two choices of their armor type with all the wrong stats, yadda yadda.

They were criticised, not "hated" - unless you want to equate both concepts, that is. The criticism was mostly fair, and the solution was simple: better stat allocation, and maybe more choices for VP gear.

What did Blizz do? In true Blizzard fashion, they threw the baby out with the bath water, which was further compounded when they got rid of master loot as well, since guilds could offset (to some extent) the all-encompassing RNG.

[epigramx]

The criticism was mostly fair, and the solution was simple

And the solution was unfair if you apply it to this topic which is about getting ANY gear in the game from a boss. Unfair in the sense that you might not deserve the loot that is. I say 3 kills because that means you probably know what you're doing at that point; at the 1st kill most guilds are reckless at the boss; on the 3rd kill it probably means they know what they're doing and you could officially declare it as the start of their "farm" (or make it '4'; the exact number is less important).

[Soon-TM]

And the solution was unfair.

Unfair according to who? You? The whole point of VP was (and should be again) to act like a soft catch up together with bad luck protection. People doing the hardest content could cap those VPs much faster than less active players, meaning they would be able to put their hands on that gear noticeably faster. How is that even remotely "unfair"?

[Antontein]

I have better idea for you OP. What if you login into the game and instantly get all items from all bosses, all achievs, mounts, toys, ...

I call it "I am crybaby and I want everything instantly" feature. I think you will like it.

[VinceVega]

Yes... more loot will make the game better. Definetly. Loot is worth nada as it is. Getting a new weopon? Who the hell cares. I allready got the saem weapon 3 times before with different iLvl. And with that i can get bis even faster. Make it 2 items in 20man and bring back masterloot. Done. You don't need to be BiS in 2 weeks. This is not a shooter game. Aquiring gear is part of the game.

[epigramx]

The whole point of VP was (and should be again) to act like a soft catch

And it's off topic here. We're talking of a way to be able to get the best items in the game in a fair way; currently it's annoying; some people may get the items in 2 weeks and others never. That's why I said multiple kills first; it's fair; it's not free loot or a limited solution.

- - - Updated - - -

if you login into the game and instantly get all items from all bosses

No. That's unfair. Before personally attacking people: read what they said first: having at least 3 kills on the boss is important (and it's no more than 1 item in a week and it's also unusable as a system for 3 weeks).

- - - Updated - - -

Yes... more loot will make the game better.

That's a strawman argument. The loot will be quantitatively less in many cases since this system will not work at all for 3 weeks hence people with good luck now may get even fewer items from the vault.

And your view is shortsighted anyway; this is about making a more fair game; killing a boss 3 times (or more; the exact number is debateable) is objectively a good indication you deserve it.

[Nalam the Venom]

Remember back in the good old day when you didnt need to have bis in every slot, you geared until you had enough to clear the bosses and then you start over again in next raid.

Now its like, if i dont have bis in every slot when 9.2 comes out it most mean that there is a loot issue, you dont need to have bis in every slot to clear the raid, and even if you managed to get bis in every slot, no one except you cares.

Getting gear is the goal.

Raid is a means to anend.

[Alkizon]

Let's start from simple: man didn't talk about loot form, but only about organization of progress. So theme title would look somehow different:

7. Little about loot policy +(+/+/+)

But if we abstract from digging in semantic trifles, then... first we need to deal with itemization as such, and most importantly with their basic purpose/main function, namely - with system of characteristics. But wait, we already talked about this many times:

2. Characteristics (&shame to PvP talent system + time-gate/catch-up, item-case) +(+/+/+/+/+/+)+/+/+

...and only after all of above, move on to that very thing, that (as I understand) OP was trying to talk about. Why do I insist on this sequence? In fact, everything is very simple:

1) person, who said that gear isn't important at up-rate PvP, is rights, since people, who're there, have gone path of "qualifications/progress" and are at the same/very close in progress;
2) if you read one of last links of 3rd paragraph, it becomes clear that system with access to "near/same-level orbit" took place at some period within the game - we are talking about cap's accessibility, player's skill helped only in reducing path's length (+ a couple of good ones, but not significantly outweighing bonuses), which means that only really connoisseurs of this pastime remained fighting for the rating, so mostly didn't interfere with "rest of plebs swarming in the mud" (for the same reason, link with raid progress description insists on their bonuses' insignificance, but there must be some logic behind this, and not stupid illogical "shutdown", that's for PvE, also badge items);
3) previous one was possible due to presence of requirements of corresponding characteristics, namely, rather rapid progress in PvP didn't outweigh PvE progress due to lack of rating PvE characteristics (which everyone had forgotten long ago, and this is very wrong), and subsequent PvE progress with moderate inflation didn't outweigh PvP due to non-participation of PvP characteristics in it (badge items, being same "powerfully", has non of both);
4) so - same path and size/amount of customizing/power characteristics on items for both activities (ilvl), but they don't interfere with each other for (3), which means that their path (speed/stages) can be controlled separately from each other (2), still progress/ranking system, being the basis game mechanics, continues to fully carry out its work.
5) PROFIT?

The only things that needed for this are more correct characteristics' system (I recommend MoP, in fact, doing this not the first time already), different system of itemization/progress and distribution of loot (this also has been said, there're links in 3rd paragraph)... well, somehow like this.

ps. Well, in other words, everything is crystal clear. Game has common design and there are separate parts that must be coordinated within its overall system, which means that it's worth taking into account final result - not particular one, but general mutual consequences.

[epigramx]

Getting gear is the goal.

Raid is a means to anend.

No. The main point is competition; if this was a single player game most people would have quit in a month; the competition may be even between who got the best transmog so it has little to do with 'hard core'.

But: having a good way to prove you have the skill to get gear is good gameplay; currently you may have someone getting 5 items in 1-2 weeks and another getting nothing; make it more indicative of skill.

[darklogrus]

Loot in Shadowlands has been dealt with in a good way after the showering of gear in BfA. It lose a lot of value if you get it all the time.

Shadowlands has been the worst, 15 bosses with only 1 piece of gear meanwhile people are running the equivalent of LFR in M+ and getting Mythic gear. The only reason people like it is because of this and noting else.

If Blizzard disabled leveling the gear til 9.2.5 and the only thing the Vault dropped was the ilvl of the key "You Completed" the remaining people who claim this is a great system would be on the forums in force...

People hated valor vendors when they existed. Always complaining about how there were only one or two choices of their armor type with all the wrong stats, yadda yadda.

Basically thats whats goin on now with the majority of the gear having the wrong stats. Ohh and lets not forget the great Vault and its rewarding 7 items of the same slot every week most of which are dupes..

[Niwes]

Such feature was called "Valor points" back when Wow was on it's peak. It was removed, because Blizzard decided, that it was soooooo boring to be able to work towards your goal. Don't get me wrong. My opinion: RNG isn't bad - RNG-gating is. RNG - is feature, that should make each gaming session different - not gate your rewards behind arbitrary unknown amount of attempts, causing Skinner chamber effect.

so true. sadly Blizz seems either a) believe another design makez morez moneyz, or b) they are such stupid, that your post is way to complex for them. sadly…

[Azadina]

That argument makes no sense. The points are something I CAME UP WITH; why are you annoyed that "I would not use them all"(?); they exist because they would give MORE gear eventually.

You would be GUARANTEEED the gear you want each week after 3 kills; that is way more loot than now for almost all people; after week 4: every single vault piece may be very good.

I know, and they suck, as demonstrated. Congratulations on the idea.

Why not have more points though while at it then? Every boss kill grants 137 points, and every piece of gear costs one point; unlocked after your precious 3 kills.

[cparle87]

They were criticised, not "hated" - unless you want to equate both concepts, that is. The criticism was mostly fair, and the solution was simple: better stat allocation, and maybe more choices for VP gear.

What did Blizz do? In true Blizzard fashion, they threw the baby out with the bath water, which was further compounded when they got rid of master loot as well, since guilds could offset (to some extent) the all-encompassing RNG.

The problem is that the wannabe hardcores will never be satisfied. The only option would be to have the vendors have every stat combo on every slot and every armor type. Even when reforging existed people complained about gear only having their best stat and their third best reforged into their second best.

While I do understand your metaphor going the other extreme would be very strange.

- - - Updated - - -

Basically thats whats goin on now with the majority of the gear having the wrong stats. Ohh and lets not forget the great Vault and its rewarding 7 items of the same slot every week most of which are dupes..

Only way to fix "wrong stats" on gear is the homogenize all the specs so they have the same stat weights, and nobody wants that. As for the vault, it can only give you loot from the content you do. The SoD gear, for instance, you'll be getting lots of dupes because there is a very small possible pool to pick from.

[Raven]

Getting gear is the goal.

Raid is a means to anend.

Of course, but if you dont get full bis gear 1 patch its not like the world will end, but there are some who isnt even top raiders that act like their familys life depends on them gettting full bis before next raid patch.

[Krayvasion]

What's the point of this thread?
Even Blizzard knows how to "solve" it. The thing is they don't want to. I'll refrain from saying that it's good or bad, but that's just how it is.

It's not rocket science, there are 1000 ways to change/improve/decrease/increase it.

Take a look at FFXIV for example. Every Savage boss drops a token for every player alongside the loot-table. Kill him X time and you can choose an item from its loot-table, priced differently depending on the slot

And that's just one version on how to "fix" it.
But it's not broken in their eyes. So it won't change. Not because they don't know how to solve this "issue", they don't see it as an issue in the first place.

[darklogrus]

The problem is that the wannabe hardcores will never be satisfied. The only option would be to have the vendors have every stat combo on every slot and every armor type. Even when reforging existed people complained about gear only having their best stat and their third best reforged into their second best.

While I do understand your metaphor going the other extreme would be very strange.

- - - Updated - - -



Only way to fix "wrong stats" on gear is the homogenize all the specs so they have the same stat weights, and nobody wants that. As for the vault, it can only give you loot from the content you do. The SoD gear, for instance, you'll be getting lots of dupes because there is a very small possible pool to pick from.

Well whats the point of stat weights when the current content gear doesnt target them. Im pretty sure a large % would take better tuned stat weights and 15% increase in power then the current mess.

As for the Vaults I have already had weeks where the 3 M+ slots have all been the same piece and thats a larger pool so theres no need for a dupe especially 3. An Raids still follow similar flow. Last week it was 2 boots and a waist that my leggo uses. For 38 items, that continues to be an annoyance how out of 38 items it magically almost always lands on the same slot 2 out of 3 times..