Blizzard: "No Player power behind new reps and Zereth Mortis zone" Except double lege

[Tyris Flare]

Covenants?

A huge segment of the community was pretty vocal about not wanting them to be locked. Or do you mean the concept in general? To me that seems like it was completely their vision, a misguided attempt to add a false RPG element into the game, despite all the criticism they received.

Like I'm generally curious where they listened to the community too much. I'm sure there's something, but the opposite seems to have been a much bigger issue for a long time.

[rhorle]

Read that back, take a deep breath, and answer the question - can you agree that the ilvl required to complete a WQ is substantially lower than the ilvl required to complete a raid?

I did. It was a typo. The discussion is not about the difficulty difference. If world content was harder then mythic raiding why would someone suddenly be interested in doing it if all they want to do is raiding? I've never disputed that gaining rep in world content is easier then raiding. You are arguing something that was never stated which is why I asked you explain yourself before you went off the rails.

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I feel ya. It isn't a massive thing to do but if you just want to push glad or raid and later on play a alt it sucks to hear there is something you gotta bang your head against a wall for two weeks first.

Blizzard has already stated that the unlock for double legendaries will be account wide.

https://ptr.wowhead.com/news/equip-t...ew-zone-324847

[arkanon]

I did. It was a typo. The discussion is not about the difficulty difference. If world content was harder then mythic raiding why would someone suddenly be interested in doing it if all they want to do is raiding? I've never disputed that gaining rep in world content is easier then raiding. You are arguing something that was never stated which is why I asked you explain yourself before you went off the rails.

I have never said anything about difficulty - you have though, multiple times. Ill ask you one more time - do you agree that the ilvl required to complete a raid is much higher than that required to complete a WQ?

BTW, which word was the typo? Or by "typo" do you actually mean "i completely confused myself and said something that directly contradicts the preceding sentence"

[Relapses]

I've not seen such a brutal take down on lowering difficulty and trying to appeal to everyone in a long time. Good show.

I'd rather this game die than see 1/100th of the absolutely terrible suggestions players put forth to "fix" WoW come to fruition. Blizzard was radio silent for most of this expansion and threads like this prove exactly why. I'm suggesting that they not only go back to radio silence but also disable any official channels by which to communicate with them because frankly we do not deserve to be listened to.

[rhorle]

I have never said anything about difficulty - you have though, multiple times. Ill ask you one more time - do you agree that the ilvl required to complete a raid is much higher than that required to complete a WQ?

I have never said the item level to complete a raid was not higher then to complete a world quest. I already answered that in my last post and you are asking something that was never the topic of discussion. I also told you what the typo was. Imagine arguing about a person saying they made a mistake. Lmao.

[Sucralose]

A huge segment of the community was pretty vocal about not wanting them to be locked. Or do you mean the concept in general? To me that seems like it was completely their vision, a misguided attempt to add a false RPG element into the game, despite all the criticism they received.

Like I'm generally curious where they listened to the community too much. I'm sure there's something, but the opposite seems to have been a much bigger issue for a long time.

I mean to play devils advocate a section of the community did bite onto the " meaningful choices" line hard. It should of been a red flag though when the groups claiming to want that played in content that required zero choices or optimization though. Blizzard doesn't trust their top end playerbase at all though. They see them as an aberration rather then flagbearer.

[Lathspell]

They should just let players engage with the content they present. It sucks when they timegate stuff just for the sake of it. There can be no other reason to timegate stuff other than keeping people subbed for just a little bit longer.

Its been said before but wow retail might be best to play at the later stages of each xpac. You can always see the raids via LFR or the odd normal/hc/mythic run. Besides that, at the last major patch content you have everything presented to you and can play it all. No waiting.

I disagree. Timegating is fine because it allows people who can't/don't want to play 30h a week an equal footing at the start of a patch. Requiring rep for player power things has been in the game since the start so it can't really be surprising to see it. They said no power is tied to the cypher, which is still true.

[Sucralose]

I'd rather this game die than see 1/100th of the absolutely terrible suggestions players put forth to "fix" WoW come to fruition. Blizzard was radio silent for most of this expansion and threads like this prove exactly why. I'm suggesting that they not only go back to radio silence but also disable any official channels by which to communicate with them because frankly we do not deserve to be listened to.

I figured it was because of lawsuits and releasing a expansion more ill received then bfa somehow but to each their own. We do agree that most people should be ignored if they are not a CE, glad, or mythic 20 player they lack the knowledge to put forth reasonable suggestions.

[Relapses]

A huge segment of the community was pretty vocal about not wanting them to be locked. Or do you mean the concept in general? To me that seems like it was completely their vision, a misguided attempt to add a false RPG element into the game, despite all the criticism they received.

Like I'm generally curious where they listened to the community too much. I'm sure there's something, but the opposite seems to have been a much bigger issue for a long time.

There was a large number of people complaining that WoW had lost its RPG roots. Covenants, to me, represent Blizzard listening to this segment of the community. There are plenty of other examples but they're too many to list. The real issue is that for any feature, big or small, expansion defining or otherwise, you're going to have a disproportionate number of people both in favor and against it. When we factionalize the groups of players who fall into these groups it invariably devolves into a "my opinion is better than your opinion" shitshow which is ultimately pointless. I've simply grown tired of seeing the developers try to do the right thing and open lines of communication with the community only for it to devolve into petty squabbles about pointless nonsense anyway. I think Blizzard would be better served pretending its community simply doesn't exist.

[FelPlague]

i really hate to be that guy is this case but if you let blizzard break the promise once, they will break it again. you either get mad now, or just don't bother getting mad over anything again. the message needs to be loud and clear that people like me (and possibly you) won't tolerate this crap anymore.

thing is it turns out they didnt break the promise, they said from the start this would come from rep and the cypher would have no power locked behind it.

[Mokrath]

I think Blizzard would be better served pretending its community simply doesn't exist.

So pretend the entire player base are Shaman mains?

[Tyris Flare]

There was a large number of people complaining that WoW had lost its RPG roots. Covenants, to me, represent Blizzard listening to this segment of the community. There are plenty of other examples but they're too many to list. The real issue is that for any feature, big or small, expansion defining or otherwise, you're going to have a disproportionate number of people both in favor and against it. When we factionalize the groups of players who fall into these groups it invariably devolves into a "my opinion is better than your opinion" shitshow which is ultimately pointless. I've simply grown tired of seeing the developers try to do the right thing and open lines of communication with the community only for it to devolve into petty squabbles about pointless nonsense anyway. I think Blizzard would be better served pretending its community simply doesn't exist.

Well, I suppose I have far less faith in their ability to choose their own "vision" or whatever. Not all developers seem to have this problem of being unable to process feedback, though.

I think the simplest explanation, beyond some crazy conspiracies, is probably just old fashioned incompetence combined with the game's age and shifting demographics.

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I disagree. Timegating is fine because it allows people who can't/don't want to play 30h a week an equal footing at the start of a patch. Requiring rep for player power things has been in the game since the start so it can't really be surprising to see it. They said no power is tied to the cypher, which is still true.

Not all timegating is the same though. Daily logins (with quests spawning every 12 hours, apparently) is really different than like a weekly rep cap)

[FelPlague]

People definitely misunderstood/misinterpreted the statement about player power BUT won't the two things have some overlap?
Is the cypher system going to be 100% independent of the rep and the rep 100% independent of the cypher system?

the cypher gives a very small amount of rep. and also doign the rep grinding you will get currency to use for the research.

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So pretend the entire player base are Shaman mains?

:Sadge:
Atleast they wouldnt be demo locks getting overhauled literally every single expansion and their class gutted to make room for an OP spec.

[klaps_05]

You know, none of this even matters. Ok, player power is tied to reputation grind. At the moment. Blizzard said they are listening big time now to feedback, and the feedback on this has been loud and clear - remove the reputation requirement. Lets see if blizzard really listens this time.

[BreakerOfWills]

Ok even if they didn't say that, when the defense of this is "it's not that bad" or "Well, it's always been like this", that should tell you something about the state of the game.

I didn't say that.

Stop responding to what people didnt say and stick to what they said.

Here's what I will say

If it's rep locked, it should be at honored or 2 weeks in when last lvl of heroic unlocks if they want people to engage with the storyline.

That's what I'll say.

Revered is too far/long away at 4 weeks of constant play, it should be 2 max.

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A huge segment of the community was pretty vocal about not wanting them to be locked. Or do you mean the concept in general? To me that seems like it was completely their vision, a misguided attempt to add a false RPG element into the game, despite all the criticism they received.

Like I'm generally curious where they listened to the community too much. I'm sure there's something, but the opposite seems to have been a much bigger issue for a long time.

Aside from all this what's a false rpg element vs a real one?

[Revamp Man]

i really hate to be that guy is this case but if you let blizzard break the promise once, they will break it again. you either get mad now, or just don't bother getting mad over anything again. the message needs to be loud and clear that people like me (and possibly you) won't tolerate this crap anymore.

I tried that
I did it in BfA
We got told by devs on Twitter we were wrong
We did it in SL testing and we were told “you just don’t like RPGs”

It’s not about the devs it’s about the community perception. You can pressure the devs easily but if you have enough idiots falling for it then you are screaming into the abyss for 9 months.

[aceperson]

I tried that
I did it in BfA
We got told by devs on Twitter we were wrong
We did it in SL testing and we were told “you just don’t like RPGs”

It’s not about the devs it’s about the community perception. You can pressure the devs easily but if you have enough idiots falling for it then you are screaming into the abyss for 9 months.

exactly. blizz has made promises time and again, and then broke them time and again. remember no more mounts in paragon boxes? it takes a customer base that cares to force the devs hand. sadly, there are too many still that is allowing the devs to make completely stupid decisions.

[Cthulhu fhtagn]

Why is the title in quotation marks when it was not what was said. The context was the new cypher grind which is designed to take a longer time. They never said "no player power from zereth mortis" at any point. The amount of people who don't even know the difference between the new rep and cypher just shows how people are just looking for something to be mad about instead of actually having a fucking clue what's going on in the patch.

[Zers Editor]

Lower the reputation you get with the quests/dailies *that become available with the Cipher*, considerably. That's what I would do, anyway.

Not like the whales will mind or notice. Will be more fair towards those who don't want to use the Cipher to get the legendaries, though.

[Dracullus]

You know, none of this even matters. Ok, player power is tied to reputation grind. At the moment. Blizzard said they are listening big time now to feedback, and the feedback on this has been loud and clear - remove the reputation requirement. Lets see if blizzard really listens this time.

Yes, Blizzard should bend to every whiny shitstorm from forums that also is completely based on lie. Otherwise they don't listen to feedback. Also doesn't matter that there are people with opposite opinions on every forum - it's YOUR voice that matter and is "loud and clear".

Tryhards would want transform WoW from MMORPG into some lobby game where you pick M+, raid, arena or battleground from title screen.