Texas Elementary School Shooting, as many as 22 dead, including Children

[D3thray]

Are you trying to tell me that more guns in schools is shown to not be the answer in this case, and that "good guys with guns" didn't actually stop "bad guys with guns"? Get outta here with your Liberal agenda and facts. I stand with the incorruptible NRA. What we need is for each of those cops to have military-grade equipment. That'll show would-be school shooters what's what. /s

It may be pedantic but wasn’t this kid stopped by ‘good guys with guns’? Aren’t all active shooters stopped by ‘good guys with guns’ by definition? I can’t recall a single one that got away besides the Marjory Stoneman Douglas shooter and that was only initially.
Your issue is with the speed of the stopping because as far as ‘good guys with guns’ go, some would say they’ve been too zealous with the stopping.

[Endus]

It may be pedantic but wasn’t this kid stopped by ‘good guys with guns’? Aren’t all active shooters stopped by ‘good guys with guns’ by definition? I can’t recall a single one that got away besides the Marjory Stoneman Douglas shooter and that was only initially.
Your issue is with the speed of the stopping because as far as ‘good guys with guns’ go, some would say they’ve been too zealous with the stopping.

The issue is that "good guys with guns" cannot and do not prevent the loss of innocent lives in cases like this, because they necessarily have to wait until after the threat is revealed to act. That means every pissant little terrorist gets a few freebies before the "good guys" get to try shooting back.

And that's unacceptable as an argument for a solution. That's an argument that there's a certain number of slaughtered innocent children you accept as the necessary and unavoidable cost for you and others to stroke gun-boners. It's a price you're absolutely willing to pay, so long as measures that might actually prevent such attacks wholesale are never considered.

Let's recall; gun lobbyists do not want to stop or even reduce school shootings and other mass attacks. There's always a bump in gun sales in the aftermath. These attacks are good for their business, and that's all they care about. More dead kids = more shareholder bucks, and that, to anyone supported by gun lobbyists, is a good thing. I repeat; if you're taking NRA or other gun lobbyist money, you're being told that slaughtered innocent children isn't a "necessary evil", it's a desirable good. So of course those wanks don't support gun control. That would limit how much they personally profit off this suffering and horror.

This isn't an impersonal debate about rights and freedoms. It's about politicians fostering a culture of violence and fear to maximize personal gain, no matter the cost in human lives.

Again; this is a uniquely American evil. No other developed nation shares this problem, because it's entirely manufactured by the American system of governance, and it's not an accident. This is the intended and desired outcome.

[s_bushido]

It may be pedantic but wasn’t this kid stopped by ‘good guys with guns’?

"Stopped" in what way? That he wasn't able to murder a couple dozen more children than he already had before he ran out of ammunition?

Good work.

Gold star.

Surely that fucking stupid myth is worth the price in bodybags that pile up before the "good guys" finally manage to "stop" what's happening.

[postman1782]

Is it proven, though? I'm beginning to wonder if people really know what that word means...

Yes, it has been proven. Even governor hotwheels has stated that there was cops there that couldn't stop him.

- - - Updated - - -

Well, they didn't stop him. We'll have to wait and see if they in fact couldn't.

No, they couldn't stop him, this has been proven.

[PhaelixWW]

Yes, it has been proven. Even governor hotwheels has stated that there was cops there that couldn't stop him.

That wasn't your claim, though. You said that he went "past" them. As opposed to "they couldn't stop him because they got to him too late to prevent him from going inside the school and barricading himself in a classroom".

That's a fairly huge, substantive difference.

You made some wild assumptions that aren't "proven" by the statements that have been made.

I mean, it's possible that that's what happened, but there's really nothing to suggest that it is, just some rampant speculation.

[Hammerfest]

No. You made a stupid joke again. You lack the intellect to recognize that you made a stupid joke. Again.

Dang it, Ivanstone... you stole my goodbye!

[postman1782]

That wasn't your claim, though. You said that he went "past" them. As opposed to "they couldn't stop him because they got to him too late to prevent him from going inside the school and barricading himself in a classroom".

That's a fairly huge, substantive difference.

You made some wild assumptions that aren't "proven" by the statements that have been made.

I mean, it's possible that that's what happened, but there's really nothing to suggest that it is, just some rampant speculation.

He did go past them. You really want to defend the terrorist for some reason.

[Hammerfest]

Yep, 3 cops, it was proven. The kid crashed his truck, and took his guns into the school past 3 cops, and they couldn't stop him.

Well, they didn't stop him. We'll have to wait and see if they in fact couldn't.

No, they couldn't stop him, this has been proven.

Do you have something... anything... to back up your assertion? I'd be willing to look at whatever you provide. If not then pipe down, junior.

[Calfredd]

Do you have something... anything... to back up your assertion? I'd be willing to look at whatever you provide. If not then pipe down, junior.

A classroom's worth of dead kids says the cops couldn't stop him.

[PhaelixWW]

He did go past them.

Says you and your headcanon?

You really want to defend the terrorist for some reason.

I'm honestly at a loss as to how your brain came up with this steaming turd of a "rebuttal".

Like... there's no possible way your sad attempt at deflection here makes even the least bit of sense.

If anything, I'm defending the local police from a premature character assassination. Are you now calling the local police "terrorists"?

Congrats.

[Deus Mortis]

He did go past them. You really want to defend the terrorist for some reason.

Phaelix wanting to make sure the stuff is in fact factual is not a defense of the terrorist, like can you use your head for a fucking second. But apparently according to you wanting to make sure the facts are straight and not continuing to make statements that are false is somehow a bad thing. Any chance you're a republican cause you're sure acting like one?

[xanzul]

Thurston High School. Columbine High School. Heritage High School. Deming Middle School. Fort Gibson Middle School. Buell Elementary School. Lake Worth Middle School. University of Arkansas. Junipero Serra High School. Santana High School. Bishop Neumann High School. Pacific Lutheran University. Granite Hills High School. Lew Wallace High School. Martin Luther King, Jr. High School. Appalachian School of Law. Washington High School. Conception Abbey. Benjamin Tasker Middle School. University of Arizona. Lincoln High School. John McDonogh High School. Red Lion Area Junior High School. Case Western Reserve University. Rocori High School. Ballou High School. Randallstown High School. Bowen High School. Red Lake Senior High School. Harlan Community Academy High School. Campbell County High School. Milwee Middle School. Roseburg High School. Pine Middle School. Essex Elementary School. Duquesne University. Platte Canyon High School. Weston High School. West Nickel Mines School. Joplin Memorial Middle School. Henry Foss High School. Compton Centennial High School. Virginia Tech. Success Tech Academy. Miami Carol City Senior High School. Hamilton High School. Louisiana Technical College. Mitchell High School. E.O. Green Junior High School. Northern Illinois University. Lakota Middle School. Knoxville Central High School. Willoughby South High School. Henry Ford High School. University of Central Arkansas. Dillard High School. Dunbar High School. Hampton University. Harvard College. Larose-Cut Off Middle School. International Studies Academy. Skyline College. Discovery Middle School. University of Alabama. DeKalb School. Deer Creek Middle School. Ohio State University. Mumford High School. University of Texas. Kelly Elementary School. Marinette High School. Aurora Central High School. Millard South High School. Martinsville West Middle School. Worthing High School. Millard South High School. Highlands Intermediate School. Cape Fear High School. Chardon High School. Episcopal School of Jacksonville. Oikos University. Hamilton High School. Perry Hall School. Normal Community High School. University of South Alabama. Banner Academy South. University of Southern California. Sandy Hook Elementary School. Apostolic Revival Center Christian School. Taft Union High School. Osborn High School. Stevens Institute of Business and Arts. Hazard Community and Technical College. Chicago State University. Lone Star College-North. Cesar Chavez High School. Price Middle School. University of Central Florida. New River Community College. Grambling State University. Massachusetts Institute of Technology. Ossie Ware Mitchell Middle School. Ronald E. McNair Discovery Academy. North Panola High School. Carver High School. Agape Christian Academy. Sparks Middle School. North Carolina A&T State University. Stephenson High School. Brashear High School. West Orange High School. Arapahoe High School. Edison High School. Liberty Technology Magnet High School. Hillhouse High School. Berrendo Middle School. Purdue University. South Carolina State University. Los Angeles Valley College. Charles F. Brush High School. University of Southern California. Georgia Regents University. Academy of Knowledge Preschool. Benjamin Banneker High School. D. H. Conley High School. East English Village Preparatory Academy. Paine College. Georgia Gwinnett College. John F. Kennedy High School. Seattle Pacific University. Reynolds High School. Indiana State University. Albemarle High School. Fern Creek Traditional High School. Langston Hughes High School. Marysville Pilchuck High School. Florida State University. Miami Carol City High School. Rogers State University. Rosemary Anderson High School. Wisconsin Lutheran High School. Frederick High School. Tenaya Middle School. Bethune-Cookman University. Pershing Elementary School. Wayne Community College. J.B. Martin Middle School. Southwestern Classical Academy. Savannah State University. Harrisburg High School. Umpqua Community College. Northern Arizona University. Texas Southern University. Tennessee State University. Winston-Salem State University. Mojave High School. Lawrence Central High School. Franklin High School. Muskegon Heights High School. Independence High School. Madison High School. Antigo High School. University of California-Los Angeles. Jeremiah Burke High School. Alpine High School. Townville Elementary School. Vigor High School. Linden McKinley STEM Academy. June Jordan High School for Equity. Union Middle School. Mueller Park Junior High School. West Liberty-Salem High School. University of Washington. King City High School. North Park Elementary School. North Lake College. Freeman High School. Mattoon High School. Rancho Tehama Elementary School. Aztec High School. Wake Forest University. Italy High School. NET Charter High School. Marshall County High School. Sal Castro Middle School. Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School Great Mills High School Central Michigan University Huffman High School Frederick Douglass High School Forest High School Highland High School Dixon High School Santa Fe High School Noblesville West Middle School University of North Carolina Charlotte STEM School Highlands Ranch Edgewood High School Palm Beach Central High School Providence Career & Technical Academy Fairley High School (school bus) Canyon Springs High School Dennis Intermediate School Florida International University Central Elementary School Cascade Middle School Davidson High School Prairie View A & M University Altascocita High School Central Academy of Excellence Cleveland High School Robert E. Lee High School Cheyenne South High School Grambling State University Blountsville Elementary School Holmes County, Mississippi (school bus) Prescott High School College of the Mainland Wynbrooke Elementary School UNC Charlotte Riverview Florida (school bus) Second Chance High School Carman-Ainsworth High School Williwaw Elementary School Monroe Clark Middle School Central Catholic High School Jeanette High School Eastern Hills High School DeAnza High School Ridgway High School Reginald F. Lewis High School Saugus High School Pleasantville High School Waukesha South High School Oshkosh High School Catholic Academy of New Haven Bellaire High School North Crowley High School McAuliffe Elementary School South Oak Cliff High School Texas A&M University-Commerce Sonora High School Western Illinois University Oxford High School Robb Elementary SchoolThurston High School. Columbine High School. Heritage High School. Deming Middle School. Fort Gibson Middle School. Buell Elementary School. Lake Worth Middle School. University of Arkansas. Junipero Serra High School. Santana High School. Bishop Neumann High School. Pacific Lutheran University. Granite Hills High School. Lew Wallace High School. Martin Luther King, Jr. High School. Appalachian School of Law. Washington High School. Conception Abbey. Benjamin Tasker Middle School. University of Arizona. Lincoln High School. John McDonogh High School. Red Lion Area Junior High School. Case Western Reserve University. Rocori High School. Ballou High School. Randallstown High School. Bowen High School. Red Lake Senior High School. Harlan Community Academy High School. Campbell County High School. Milwee Middle School. Roseburg High School. Pine Middle School. Essex Elementary School. Duquesne University. Platte Canyon High School. Weston High School. West Nickel Mines School. Joplin Memorial Middle School. Henry Foss High School. Compton Centennial High School. Virginia Tech. Success Tech Academy. Miami Carol City Senior High School. Hamilton High School. Louisiana Technical College. Mitchell High School. E.O. Green Junior High School. Northern Illinois University. Lakota Middle School. Knoxville Central High School. Willoughby South High School. Henry Ford High School. University of Central Arkansas. Dillard High School. Dunbar High School. Hampton University. Harvard College. Larose-Cut Off Middle School. International Studies Academy. Skyline College. Discovery Middle School. University of Alabama. DeKalb School. Deer Creek Middle School. Ohio State University. Mumford High School. University of Texas. Kelly Elementary School. Marinette High School. Aurora Central High School. Millard South High School. Martinsville West Middle School. Worthing High School. Millard South High School. Highlands Intermediate School. Cape Fear High School. Chardon High School. Episcopal School of Jacksonville. Oikos University. Hamilton High School. Perry Hall School. Normal Community High School. University of South Alabama. Banner Academy South. University of Southern California. Sandy Hook Elementary School. Apostolic Revival Center Christian School. Taft Union High School. Osborn High School. Stevens Institute of Business and Arts. Hazard Community and Technical College. Chicago State University. Lone Star College-North. Cesar Chavez High School. Price Middle School. University of Central Florida. New River Community College. Grambling State University. Massachusetts Institute of Technology. Ossie Ware Mitchell Middle School. Ronald E. McNair Discovery Academy. North Panola High School. Carver High School. Agape Christian Academy. Sparks Middle School. North Carolina A&T State University. Stephenson High School. Brashear High School. West Orange High School. Arapahoe High School. Edison High School. Liberty Technology Magnet High School. Hillhouse High School. Berrendo Middle School. Purdue University. South Carolina State University. Los Angeles Valley College. Charles F. Brush High School. University of Southern California. Georgia Regents University. Academy of Knowledge Preschool. Benjamin Banneker High School. D. H. Conley High School. East English Village Preparatory Academy. Paine College. Georgia Gwinnett College. John F. Kennedy High School. Seattle Pacific University. Reynolds High School. Indiana State University. Albemarle High School. Fern Creek Traditional High School. Langston Hughes High School. Marysville Pilchuck High School. Florida State University. Miami Carol City High School. Rogers State University. Rosemary Anderson High School. Wisconsin Lutheran High School. Frederick High School. Tenaya Middle School. Bethune-Cookman University. Pershing Elementary School. Wayne Community College. J.B. Martin Middle School. Southwestern Classical Academy. Savannah State University. Harrisburg High School. Umpqua Community College. Northern Arizona University. Texas Southern University. Tennessee State University. Winston-Salem State University. Mojave High School. Lawrence Central High School. Franklin High School. Muskegon Heights High School. Independence High School. Madison High School. Antigo High School. University of California-Los Angeles. Jeremiah Burke High School. Alpine High School. Townville Elementary School. Vigor High School. Linden McKinley STEM Academy. June Jordan High School for Equity. Union Middle School. Mueller Park Junior High School. West Liberty-Salem High School. University of Washington. King City High School. North Park Elementary School. North Lake College. Freeman High School. Mattoon High School. Rancho Tehama Elementary School. Aztec High School. Wake Forest University. Italy High School. NET Charter High School. Marshall County High School. Sal Castro Middle School. Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School Great Mills High School Central Michigan University Huffman High School Frederick Douglass High School Forest High School Highland High School Dixon High School Santa Fe High School Noblesville West Middle School University of North Carolina Charlotte STEM School Highlands Ranch Edgewood High School Palm Beach Central High School Providence Career & Technical Academy Fairley High School (school bus) Canyon Springs High School Dennis Intermediate School Florida International University Central Elementary School Cascade Middle School Davidson High School Prairie View A & M University Altascocita High School Central Academy of Excellence Cleveland High School Robert E. Lee High School Cheyenne South High School Grambling State University Blountsville Elementary School Holmes County, Mississippi (school bus) Prescott High School College of the Mainland Wynbrooke Elementary School UNC Charlotte Riverview Florida (school bus) Second Chance High School Carman-Ainsworth High School Williwaw Elementary School Monroe Clark Middle School Central Catholic High School Jeanette High School Eastern Hills High School DeAnza High School Ridgway High School Reginald F. Lewis High School Saugus High School Pleasantville High School Waukesha South High School Oshkosh High School Catholic Academy of New Haven Bellaire High School North Crowley High School McAuliffe Elementary School South Oak Cliff High School Texas A&M University-Commerce Sonora High School Western Illinois University Oxford High School Robb Elementary School

[jonnysensible]

Says you and your headcanon?

you seem to be ignoring all the updates on the story, showing the police ignored their training and left him to rampage for over 30 mins.

[Deus Mortis]

https://apnews.com/article/uvalde-te...482483df6e4683

Officials say he “encountered” a school district security officer outside the school, though there were conflicting reports from authorities on whether the men exchanged gunfire. After running inside, he fired on two arriving Uvalde police officers who were outside the building, said Texas Department of Public Safety spokesperson Travis Considine. The police officers were injured.

He “barricaded himself by locking the door and just started shooting children and teachers that were inside that classroom,” Lt. Christopher Olivarez of the Department of Public Safety told CNN. “It just shows you the complete evil of the shooter.”

Meanwhile, a law enforcement official familiar with the investigation said the Border Patrol agents had trouble breaching the classroom door and had to get a staff member to open the room with a key. The official spoke on the condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak publicly about the ongoing investigation.

[PhaelixWW]

you seem to be ignoring all the updates on the story, showing the police ignored their training and left him to rampage for over 30 mins.

You mean the police who were reportedly already wounded? You mean the police who didn't attempt to break into a barricaded classroom?

I think people keep forgetting... there was a whole damn school full of kids. Had they tried to a defensible position and been gunned down by the shooter, then the shooter would have been able to leave the classroom he was barricaded in and continue hunting for victims.

By all reports, the officers on the scene were wounded in the initial exchange of gunfire, then covered the retreat of the other students in the school until more officers arrived.

Like... there's nothing to support the idea that they just sat there with their thumbs up their asses, like you just automatically assume.

And let's be honest. He didn't rampage for 30 minutes. All his victims were in the adjoining classrooms in which he was barricaded. I'm sure he rampaged for only a minute or two before it was all over, then he was just trapped for the remainder of the time.

- - - Updated - - -

https://apnews.com/article/uvalde-te...482483df6e4683

Officials say he “encountered” a school district security officer outside the school, though there were conflicting reports from authorities on whether the men exchanged gunfire. After running inside, he fired on two arriving Uvalde police officers who were outside the building, said Texas Department of Public Safety spokesperson Travis Considine. The police officers were injured.

He “barricaded himself by locking the door and just started shooting children and teachers that were inside that classroom,” Lt. Christopher Olivarez of the Department of Public Safety told CNN. “It just shows you the complete evil of the shooter.”

Meanwhile, a law enforcement official familiar with the investigation said the Border Patrol agents had trouble breaching the classroom door and had to get a staff member to open the room with a key. The official spoke on the condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak publicly about the ongoing investigation.

Well, would you look at that. That does sound almost exactly like the scenario that I suggested, does it not?

Looks like certain posters were 100% wrong in their make-believe scenario.

[Breccia]

Well, they didn't stop him. We'll have to wait and see if they in fact couldn't.

So, if they didn't but could have, then the school district's police department, who were on scene, intentionally let someone with an assault rifle enter the school and murder a bunch of children.

Despite the fact we know the gunman shot one of them before entering the building. That they let him enter, intentionally, anyhow.

So...you put forth this possibility, despite at this point the timeline being public, that police officers specifically tasked with defending that specific school, willingly allowed someone who they knew was armed and had shot one of them. And then demanded they prove you wrong.

I was genuinely curious why you'd raise this as an option. During the aftermath of yet another mass murder at a school, that you raise the possibility that the police -- again, specific police for that school -- intentionally allowed entry to someone who had already shot one of them.

Then, it all made sense.

I will be honest, I'd never expect you to come down so strongly on the side of gun control. Which is the only sane way such a response could be viewed. I mean, if you look at a police department, one specifically tasked with defending that school, willingly allowing in someone with an assault rifle after that person had shot one of the police, well, it can only be taken as you taking the saying "the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun" and refuting it.

If professional police, specifically tasked with defending a school, armed and trained, choose not to do their job when someone enters the school to murder a bunch of children, well, then you are saying the problem is not the laws or the law enforcement. Because the school had both, and you are saying they chose to do nothing.

Which means, the only way a logical, sane person would say what you're suggesting, is if they were firmly in the camp of removing these weapons of war from the general population. I mean, there's no other way to interpret this. Especially since you said this was the most likely option, by putting the burden of proof on people saying "the police tried but failed".

I would like to welcome Hammerfest into the pro-gun-control group. I know, I didn't expect it either, but there's no other way of reading what he said.

[Deus Mortis]

You mean the police who were reportedly already wounded? You mean the police who didn't attempt to break into a barricaded classroom?

I think people keep forgetting... there was a whole damn school full of kids. Had they tried to a defensible position and been gunned down by the shooter, then the shooter would have been able to leave the classroom he was barricaded in and continue hunting for victims.

By all reports, the officers on the scene were wounded in the initial exchange of gunfire, then covered the retreat of the other students in the school until more officers arrived.

Like... there's nothing to support the idea that they just sat there with their thumbs up their asses, like you just automatically assume.

And let's be honest. He didn't rampage for 30 minutes. All his victims were in the adjoining classrooms in which he was barricaded. I'm sure he rampaged for only a minute or two before it was all over, then he was just trapped for the remainder of the time.

- - - Updated - - -


Well, would you look at that. That does sound almost exactly like the scenario that I suggested, does it not?

Looks like certain posters were 100% wrong in their make-believe scenario.

Yup, people let their emotions get the better of them and then just spew rants that are full of bullshit. I find that it is far better for information to come together whenever events like this happen instead of just going off whatever the first person on twitter posts, that gets you stuff like the republican saying the shooter was a trans when in fact that the picture was a completely different person.

[PhaelixWW]

So, if they didn't but could have, then the school district's police department, who were on scene, intentionally let someone with an assault rifle enter the school and murder a bunch of children.

I wonder if people think the school cop should have shot the brown kid before he actually did anything, just to be on the safe side?

No? Right, then.

[Breccia]

I wonder if people think the school cop should have shot the brown kid before he actually did anything, just to be on the safe side?

Eh, in this case, kind of irrelevant. The guy crawled out of a car wreck with an assault rifle and went directly towards the largest group of children around. That counts as "did anything" by any stretch of the imagination. The only way someone could have shot him first would be if they shot him while he was driving, before the weapon of war he was about to use on multiple law enforcement and a room filled with terrified children was visible.

In other words, a situation so ridiculous it was used in The Naked Gun movies.

[Edge-]

Man, the "I'm right" crowd is having a field day missing the point of at least my post.

Which was that, as stated, good guys with guns don't stop bad guys with guns. We see this time and time again. I mean I know Deathray's gonna come all in, "Well Actua-Lee" this with how mass shooting eventually end with the gunman being shot, but like, holy shit welcome to the broad side of missing the fuckin point. Damage is already done. 50+ people at a country music festival dead from a gunman none of them could have even seen before they started dropping like flies. Multiple schools with over a dozen+ young children killed in an act that would shock any other developed nation into action after more than once instance, or maybe just one.

The point remains: How many children do people think need to be murdered in their classrooms before we start asking ourselves about actual ways to prevent this? About actual was to bring down our astronomical gun violence levels? About actual ways to protect peoples lives and not be an embarassment of the developed world, where the proposed "solutions" are - bulletproof backpacks, bulletproof blankets, giving underpaid and underfunded public school teachers a weekend of training and then asking them to securely store and handle a gun around children full-time (in addition to all their other duties) and literally put their life on the line to protect the kids (which many gladly do), build schools like Fort Knox with layers of security, put armed (assuming federal) security guards at every school in the nation, and arm children.

We might need our best and brightest to figure this out.