Oh Blizzard, how you have fallen (Diablo Immortal).

[MoanaLisa]

One thing this thread proves is the same people who support this would support MTX in WoW such as buying gear and getting a better chance at getting drops from Boss Kills.

I think you’re right for what it’s worth. MTX is all about convenience and convenience is #1 with a lot of gamers. People are like that. Markets change. Successful games change with them. The rest suffer declining interest and fall behind the market. I’m making a point but it’s not at all the same point you’ve trying to make in criticizing players and developers. Too many people are pretending that Blizzard was like a friend. Hard talk: They are not and never have been. They have always done what they thought was best for them.

[kranur]

The game is free to try. People should find out for themselves rather than believe anything posted here since most of the thread is about picking fights rather than being informative.

My own opinion? Fun enough. Store prompts are easy to dismiss. It’s possible to progress and have fun without spending anything. Anyone surprised and offended by them is either oblivious to what practically everyone has known for years or is being terribly dishonest. Play it on a tablet if you can. The PC client needs a lot of improvement since the game was designed for mobile devices. The PC client feels like a square peg in a round hole. It’s there but shows its faults. Blizzard will likely fix it but it’s not a PC game at the end of the day.

This is actually true. The game feels fun to play (outside of the crashes and garbage PC UI) and it's perfectly playable without spending any money. I got to Paragon 5 and so far had 0 restrictions to do content, 0 ads and 0 need to spend any money. Will see if this changes later on, though it's more likely that I'll just get bored.

Now if for some reason you want to be super competitive and have the best (don't think it's possible even if you spend 100k+ euros) or close to that, then yes, you need to throw away A LOT of money.

[gaaara]

it looks alright, visually some of the little things they updated compared to d3 is also pretty nice, its like a d3 patch.
Downsides is obviously the power gains of a f2p vs shop. The numbers don't lie. The way how everything you purchase is setup...is just disgusting. (Again not a mobile gamer so not sure how that all works)
For me, i hope the influence of the shop doesn't play into D4. D4 as long as cosmetic stuff in the shop ill be ok, but if they decide on the F2P path or a mix of PAY+Shop....thats Diablo pretty much dead.

On one side Blizzard had a good chance to really come out on top for Diablo Immortal...but nope...$_$ is the way, as long as whales exists the name will be milked.

[RobertoCarlos]

I think you’re right for what it’s worth. MTX is all about convenience and convenience is #1 with a lot of gamers. People are like that. Markets change. Successful games change with them. The rest suffer declining interest and fall behind the market. I’m making a point but it’s not at all the same point you’ve trying to make in criticizing players and developers. Too many people are pretending that Blizzard was like a friend. Hard talk: They are not and never have been. They have always done what they thought was best for them.

Ah yes one of those passive aggressive types. I see you use it well. Being industry leaders to toilet dump is not being confused for a company being your bestie.

I can see how ye managed to lose mod status which is an impressive feat as they can't find em to save themselves

[gaaara]

This is such a nonsense take you can't even buy gear in this game so how does that prove you'd support it in another.

This is the kind if nonsense I'm talking about.

Odd...you can't directly buy gear, however you can buy everything else to make that gear.

[Ghost of Cow]

I think you’re right for what it’s worth. MTX is all about convenience and convenience is #1 with a lot of gamers. People are like that. Markets change. Successful games change with them. The rest suffer declining interest and fall behind the market. I’m making a point but it’s not at all the same point you’ve trying to make in criticizing players and developers. Too many people are pretending that Blizzard was like a friend. Hard talk: They are not and never have been. They have always done what they thought was best for them.

Well, if WoW remained a Sub Price + Box Price game, I wouldn't be behind that of course.

I'm actually still shocked that after all these years people give subscription based games a pass. Especially with box prices AND cash shops on top of it. I often find that to be much more egregious than a F2P game selling someone a loot box.

I feel like if people really totaled up what they paid for WoW, they'd be surprised. Especially when you consider the "cost" of each content patch.

[Magical Mudcrab]

The person with a gambling disorder is 100% at fault. That's got nothing to do with Blizzard and NetEase.

Who would have thought that the person who regularly appeals to pseudo science and always makes appeals to their own ignorance would be dismissive of people with gambling disorders. I guess we should take this "let's not care about mental health" thing to its logical conclusion and assume you don't care about rates of suicide amongst people with depression either because it would be "100% their fault".

[rhorle]

I dont like overwatch, but you cant deny its value for money if you're a fan of FPS. Value for money, key concept here.

So then it isn't about predatory micro transactions, pay to win, or anything else you've spent the last few pages talking about. It is about value for money. Using your key concept Diablo Immortal is fine because it offers great value for money. You can experience it all with out paying at all. You can progress to Paragon 600 with out paying and see all the game has to offer. You could even potentially be the Immortal or a Shadow member that fights the Immortals all with out paying.

And yet you still trash Diablo Immortal even when it offers great value for your money.

[RobertoCarlos]

So then it isn't about predatory micro transactions, pay to win, or anything else you've spent the last few pages talking about. It is about value for money. Using your key concept Diablo Immortal is fine because it offers great value for money. You can experience it all with out paying at all. You can progress to Paragon 600 with out paying and see all the game has to offer. You could even potentially be the Immortal or a Shadow member that fights the Immortals all with out paying.

And yet you still trash Diablo Immortal even when it offers great value for your money.

Yeah that all sounds great right, Why would someone hate on a free game??

In a perfect world, Overwatch would not have lootboxes and that time they they had spent on that cosmetic work was rewarded in game through trophies or challenges.

Likewise I'd rather just outright buy Diablo Immortal so that time they had spent designing mobile phone daily log in gimmicks with MTX dialed up to 11 to not only justify its production cost which btw was outsourced on the cheap to china but to milk unlimited monetary value with the latest researched gimmicks designed to target addicts they instead made it good.

But yea overwatch because i was being generous saying blizz actually made a decent game in the last 10 years. They didnt even make this one. Whataboutism again.

[rhorle]

Likewise I'd rather just outright buy Diablo Immortal so that time they had spent designing mobile phone daily log in gimmicks with MTX dialed up to 11 to not only justify its production cost which btw was outsourced on the cheap out of china but to milk unlimited monetary value it just doesnt sit right.

Shouldn't you also be against Overwatch because it is buy to play as well as milking unlimited monetary value with its cool skins in loot boxes? With its events that introduce new skins that are around for a limited time? Or can you at least admit that value for your money is an empty statement. Because again Diablo Immortal offers great value for your money because you can play the entire game for free. $0 is great for hours of entertainment.

[MoanaLisa]

Well, if WoW remained a Sub Price + Box Price game, I wouldn't be behind that of course.

I'm actually still shocked that after all these years people give subscription based games a pass. Especially with box prices AND cash shops on top of it. I often find that to be much more egregious than a F2P game selling someone a loot box.

I feel like if people really totaled up what they paid for WoW, they'd be surprised. Especially when you consider the "cost" of each content patch.

$150-$200 bucks a year depending on how your subscription works plus expansions. That's a baseline. If you use any of the services up it goes. Player investment in their characters is a strong drug.

[RobertoCarlos]

Shouldn't you also be against Overwatch because it is buy to play as well as milking unlimited monetary value with its cool skins in loot boxes? With its events that introduce new skins that are around for a limited time? Or can you at least admit that value for your money is an empty statement. Because again Diablo Immortal offers great value for your money because you can play the entire game for free. $0 is great for hours of entertainment.

Can you please stop going on about overwatch. I dont even play it.

Some games pull off the free to play model, its rare. But it does happen. Warframe, Path of Exile.

Both examples are pretty gross in that a lot of their purchases are required to play the game properly but its not uncommon to see hundreds of hours committed to those games either.

This isnt a diablo quality game and taints the already tainted IP further into the abyss when theres still some child like hope that D4 isnt gonna turn out the train wreck every indicator leads you to believe.

[exochaft]

$150-$200 bucks a year depending on how your subscription works plus expansions. That's a baseline. If you use any of the services up it goes. Player investment in their characters is a strong drug.

I actually did total up how much I spent for subscription, expansions, and all the server/faction costs so I could hardcore raid. Came up to almost $4k for a decade and a half. As a lump sum, it seems pretty bad, but over time it was fairly cheap considering how much time I spent in game. My /played for my main was well over two years, so I can't complain about the time I spent. Now, I still think the server/faction transfer costs are and still are way too high, and at one point I'd say it may have been necessary to maintain a decent revenue stream... but then the WoW token came, and that's likely their MTX cash cow now.

Can you please stop going on about overwatch. I dont even play it.

Some games pull off the free to play model, its rare. But it does happen. Warframe, Path of Exile.

Both examples are pretty gross in that a lot of their purchases are required to play the game properly but its not uncommon to see hundreds of hours committed to those games either.

This isnt a diablo quality game and taints the already tainted IP further into the abyss when theres still some child like hope that D4 isnt gonna turn out the train wreck every indicator leads you to believe.

When it comes to PoE, it's one of those games where it actually feels worth spending the money because you actually get something out of it. Although I think the stash tabs aspect is the worst part of PoE's MTX system, for anyone who would actually use those tabs (especially the specialized ones, like the currency tab, map tab, card tab, etc.) isn't necessarily going to be paying a lot... especially if you wait for a tab sale, which usually coincides with the start of a league. Once you get your stash tabs, you never lose them, probably have spent less money than you would to outright buy most games, and you don't really needed anything beyond that in terms of MTX. Sure, you could get the quad or customizable tabs if you want, but they aren't nearly as important as the specialized tabs, and they're mostly useful if you hoard a bunch of stuff. Beyond that, there's a bunch of cosmetic and support pack MTXs that do not alter gameplay at all.

Compared to D:Immortal's MTX, PoE can barely even be considered a P2W game by technicality. Despite the specialized stash tabs feeling more and more necessary the more hours you put into PoE, there's no player power gains to be bought, you always get what you pay for, what you pay for is permanent and never needs to be bought again, and none of the content or gear is gated behind artificial paywall mechanics. D:Immortal is the complete opposite: player power is bought (albeit indirectly by one step, <insert Rick and Morty "slavery with extra steps" meme>), you can lose out on MTX you pay for, some of the MTX's aren't permanent, and the game is gated behind a paywall at a certain point. PoE requires MTX to survive being a free game, yet they treat their players with way more decency and respect compared to what Blizz is doing... and Blizz has way more streams of revenue to support them beyond D:Immortal.

All in all, D:Immortal is just showing the actual face of the current Blizz. None of the debacle from last summer and lawsuits changed Blizz in a fundamental way, it just caused a regime shift while still maintaining the same direction for the company. There's no saving Blizz and returning Blizz to their former selves beyond an act of God at this point. There may be some minor changes that go for the better every now and then, but the change that's really needed isn't likely to ever come now.

[Osmeric]

My /played for my main was well over two years,

At the federal minimum wage, two years of your time is worth $127,107.

People don't realize just how high the opportunity cost of playing a game is. Your life is finite and you are spending it.

[Cracked]

At the federal minimum wage, two years of your time is worth $127,107.

People don't realize just how high the opportunity cost of playing a game is. Your life is finite and you are spending it.

The difference is that clearly you didn't want to spend that time by working for someone else to get richer and instead you wanted to relax or have fun by spending it in a game. Weird, I know. Not all time is made equal. The last thing I want to be doing after dinner is spending the next two hours trying to hustle because "my life is finite".

[Biomega]

At the federal minimum wage, two years of your time is worth $127,107.

People don't realize just how high the opportunity cost of playing a game is. Your life is finite and you are spending it.

That's a nonsense equation. This is not time you'd have spent working if not for the game (at least for the vast majority of people).

You might as well go "DID YOU KNOW SLEEPING HAS COST YOU A MILLION DOLLARS SO FAR?!" which is equally absurd for the same reason.

[Jerot]

So are we just ignoring the selling of skins whose entire purpose exists just to drain money? It is amusing how things are different when you like the game.

Skins are relatively harmless, they don't detract from other players enjoyment in multiplayer activities or ability to compete. Some people want to look cool in games, and selling them skins gives them a way to both customize their characters and support the developer. They also take artists additional time to create, so charging for them when you aren't getting paid for access to the game makes sense.

Selling power/loot boosts does hurt other players experience of the game. It encourages the developer to skew game mechanics and balance to favor paying players to the detriment of the core game experience. And they take no additional development resources to create. Its taking the cheap and lazy route to monetization.

Who cares, they are a tiny minority too.

Ah, so it's okay to exploit minorities.

[Osmeric]

That's a nonsense equation. This is not time you'd have spent working if not for the game (at least for the vast majority of people).

You might as well go "DID YOU KNOW SLEEPING HAS COST YOU A MILLION DOLLARS SO FAR?!" which is equally absurd for the same reason.

No, I don't think it's nonsense. People are shadily induced into spending money on P2W games; people are similarly shadily induced into spending time on grindy games.

If you argue "people are freely choosing to grind so it must be fun", I will respond "people are freely choosing to spend $$$$ on the P2W game, so that must be fun."

[uopayroll]

The game is illegal in Belgium and the Netherlands because those countries do consider the business model predatory and unethical.

No, the legality revolves around it being considered gambling

[Biomega]

No, I don't think it's nonsense. People are shadily induced into spending money on P2W games; people are similarly shadily induced into spending time on grindy games.

If you argue "people are freely choosing to grind so it must be fun", I will respond "people are freely choosing to spend $$$$ on the P2W game, so that must be fun."

You're missing the point.

I'm not saying they didn't spend time - I'm saying to equate that time with money is nonsense because it's not time you'd have spent earning money either way, game or no game.