Master looter back!!!!!

[Goatfish]

Except you have not a shred of authority in regards to who deserves what, especially not in comparison to the game itself.

Like a true party apparatnik you assert that you and yours know better and have the authority to decide, when the practical evidence in relation to the actual rewards acquisition method (namely the rng) thereof is roughly zero.

So, comrade, when will you stop playing the coy communist in denial, or should it be off to the gulag with you?

(also protip: capitalism is about the power to decide and little else, i'm a great fan; my investments generate profits for me regardless of the opinions of countless "qualified", "productive", "hard-working" people that are totally "competent" despite always depending on another's approval for every reward in their life, rather than ever truly reaping what they sow)

What is this word salad? From what I can gather, are you suggesting that the hierarchy system that basically every business on the planet uses is communism? Master Looter effectively allowed people to use different loot systems to assign gear in different ways, such as round robin, DKP, GDKP, Loot Council, and of course the dictatorship method. I find it hard to believe that anyone could argue in good faith that a purely random loot system that prevents people from trading gear is the best system for everyone. That's exactly what the Bliz devs did though, and no surprise, a lot of people hate it.

I'm also unsure what the heck you're talking about as far as your idea of capitalism. Capitalism is about the private ownership of the means of production AND their operation. This means that guild leaders/owners would get to decide how to distribute the profits from their ventures, and that the people joining said guilds are effectively signing a contract agreeing to said distribution method. You instead are coming in here trying to dictate how they distribute loot because you feel the raiders/workers have a stake in the guild/company and therefore deserve part of the profits regardless of what the owner wants.

I can't tell if you're greedy, self absorbed, or dishonest. Maybe you're just ignorantly good natured and don't trust a free market to weed out toxic guilds (which is what happened in the past). I'm just glad that whatever the reason, Bliz isn't listening to you anymore and is going to allow guilds the ability to decide how they function for themselves again no matter how much you want to whine and moan about it.

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No, it didn't.

The idea of a main tank is pretty outdated in today's raids, for one. Almost every single boss has some uncreative tank swap mechanic that happens at reliable intervals. So your idea of needing "one super tanky tank" is weird. And your idea of gearing out one DPS to carry the rest of the group is just further pushing a divide between your bottom DPS and the top, rather than trying to equally bring everyone up, especially in a world where M+ exists and chances are, your top DPS is top because they're gearing out from all sources rather than just raids.

At least for dps, this assumes that people are equally skilled, which is obviously not the case. A piece of loot that sims at +500 dps might get your top dps +450 and your bottom dps +200 because they are just a worse player. Have you ever once looked at the huge difference in logs by ilvl? This idea that gear is the great equalizer is so obviously dumb that I don't understand why anyone still bothers to push it. I know people want to believe that if they had 280ilvl that they could be one of the top players in the world too, but that's just not reality. I consistently meet players with about 270ilvl and 4pc tier that do half the damage some of my raiders did in SoD.

Even for tanks, it's probably a good idea to evenly gear up tanks since we need 2 of them for basically every fight, but it's also not a bad idea to overgear one tank and cheese certain mechanics or bosses almost completely.

[munkeyinorbit]

Welp... if that is true - i will probably won't touch it at all.

As a potential RL i want to decide how loot be distributed as it was years ago.
You do not accept my rules i say before inv - you can't join.
Simple as that.

Translation: "My friends and I deserve loot before any of you scrubs".

[Jester Joe]

At least for dps, this assumes that people are equally skilled, which is obviously not the case. A piece of loot that sims at +500 dps might get your top dps +450 and your bottom dps +200 because they are just a worse player. Have you ever once looked at the huge difference in logs by ilvl? This idea that gear is the great equalizer is so obviously dumb that I don't understand why anyone still bothers to push it. I know people want to believe that if they had 280ilvl that they could be one of the top players in the world too, but that's just not reality. I consistently meet players with about 270ilvl and 4pc tier that do half the damage some of my raiders did in SoD.

Even for tanks, it's probably a good idea to evenly gear up tanks since we need 2 of them for basically every fight, but it's also not a bad idea to overgear one tank and cheese certain mechanics or bosses almost completely.

1) if it's such an issue with the gap between DPS, then generally speaking it would be easier to just sit the worst DPS if they're that bad.

2) That ignores the fact that the top DPS are more than likely the ones intentionally chasing top damage, and they're also doing M+ to get the best gear. Like, in the group I'm in, I'm in the top geared because I've also run the hell out of M+. Granted I could round out a few pieces but I'm sitting at a pretty respectable 275. So why would I need another piece of gear when it can be given to the people who are still sitting around 255 because all they do is raid? The group the other poster was talking about was a AotC chasing guild after all, so that guild and the one I ran with are comparable in that fact.

[Goatfish]

1) if it's such an issue with the gap between DPS, then generally speaking it would be easier to just sit the worst DPS if they're that bad.

2) That ignores the fact that the top DPS are more than likely the ones intentionally chasing top damage, and they're also doing M+ to get the best gear. Like, in the group I'm in, I'm in the top geared because I've also run the hell out of M+. Granted I could round out a few pieces but I'm sitting at a pretty respectable 275. So why would I need another piece of gear when it can be given to the people who are still sitting around 255 because all they do is raid? The group the other poster was talking about was a AotC chasing guild after all, so that guild and the one I ran with are comparable in that fact.

So instead of giving the person a chance at loot at all, your answer is to eliminate their chance? Every raid guild I've been in has had a couple carries, or at least players obviously worse than others.

This ignores my second part of the equation that is loyalty. If you have shown up consistently for every week of raid and you're gearing out a new brand new member on week 12 of farm, should the BiS trinket you've been waiting so patiently for go to you or the new member? This was the whole meaning behind guilds using zero-sum DKP using master looter, and is in my opinion one of the best and most fair methods of loot distribution. Does it kinda suck for new members? Sure, for that tier, but it resets on the next tier and makes the most sense.

These are also very different parts of the loot timetable. The first part applies near the start of a new raid and is usually the more contentious part. The second applies more during farm. The issue is that the same problem exists currently. If you get a 278 drop to replace your 275 gear, you don't even have the option to trade it to the 255 guy, even if the stats are bad for you. (edit: I know this situation doesn't apply to your heroic only guild. I also run heroic only but the same principle applies.)

[froschhure]

Trash change anyways

[Usernameforforums]

Just one question: Why?

I think the gdkp scene might make its way over to retail now. Who knows.

I personally wanted ml btw.

[Glorious Leader]

Welp... if that is true - i will probably won't touch it at all.

As a potential RL i want to decide how loot be distributed as it was years ago.
You do not accept my rules i say before inv - you can't join.
Simple as that.

I honest to god hope nobody plays with you. Like ever. You have a massive complex.

[Celement]

1) if it's such an issue with the gap between DPS, then generally speaking it would be easier to just sit the worst DPS if they're that bad.

2) That ignores the fact that the top DPS are more than likely the ones intentionally chasing top damage, and they're also doing M+ to get the best gear. Like, in the group I'm in, I'm in the top geared because I've also run the hell out of M+. Granted I could round out a few pieces but I'm sitting at a pretty respectable 275. So why would I need another piece of gear when it can be given to the people who are still sitting around 255 because all they do is raid? The group the other poster was talking about was a AotC chasing guild after all, so that guild and the one I ran with are comparable in that fact.

I always thought the goal of gearing was you get tanks geared till they can survive ( usually this is done in mythic plus true tank breaker bosses are rather rare these days). Then you gear dps then healers till you can drop a healer for another dps.

[FuxieDK]

Master loot is absolute trash and the game is infinitely better without it. Luckily it doesn't sound like it's actually coming back, it'll just be group loot and it'll only be in raids not dungeons, so it's significantly better than if master loot was actually returning.

So, because you don't like something, NO ONE may have it?

Sounds like the weak circular arguments of the No-Flying minority; Because I don't l like flying, you may not have it.

[Devilyaki]

Yes yes yes, Blizzard has reverted the biggest mistake EVER!

I argued this soooo many times with people on this forum. Feels good to be right.

Now they just need sv hunter range again

[Jester Joe]

I always thought the goal of gearing was you get tanks geared till they can survive ( usually this is done in mythic plus true tank breaker bosses are rather rare these days). Then you gear dps then healers till you can drop a healer for another dps.

I mean, when I ran mythic raiding, the goal was always as few healers as we needed, so that was how I used to experience things too.

[Mendzia]

i dont understand the point,why bring back group loot?whats the benefit of ever using group loot over personal or master

GL? I do not care much.
ML? I think it is best type of loot distribution and got its roots in classic RPGs.

Translation: "My friends and I deserve loot before any of you scrubs".

I honest to god hope nobody plays with you. Like ever. You have a massive complex.

Wow... it is really weird to hear that from person named 'Glorious Leader' (not making fun of your name or try being toxic - it just 'fits' here).
Jokes aside i really encourage you guys to check THIS post and make your opinion again.

[Caprias]

In a tight knit progression group this will help to push progress by equipping your best and most reliable players first and also for efficiency (fast 2/4set; dds>tanks>healers etc.) , more bosses down/on farm = more loot for everyone in the long run helping everybody out.

How is this so hard to grasp? And if you're not in a tight knit progress group? Then you don't have to use it by not joining groups/guilds with that, it is an option.

In Pandemonium (ff14) we funneled everything into our 2 melees to have an easier time with enrage, everyone still got BiS pretty fast regardless, weird how that can work out.

How are some people here so disgustingly obtuse, did you not get loot because you sucked in your trial run or something?

[Ssateneth]

sounds to me more like GDKP going to ruin retail (current patch). leaders asking to show 1 million gold in trade or no invite, minimum 500k bid on armor pieces, 2m on tier, 5m min on trinkets/weapos/bis.

this is going to be awful.

[Feral Druid ist Op]

This has to be one of the most asinine things I've ever read.

"I enjoyed the game and it was fun, but I stopped playing because the main way to ninja loot items was removed"... Really that's a pretty interesting take right there.

Master loot is absolute trash and the game is infinitely better without it. Luckily it doesn't sound like it's actually coming back, it'll just be group loot and it'll only be in raids not dungeons, so it's significantly better than if master loot was actually returning.

bad and anti social players like you will never understand things like this, and how bad personal loot was the last years not bieng able to trade items that are dogshit for you but BIS for your guild mate.

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The only question is if this can decimate split runs or not.
So, is it?

it will not but we will run less of them so a big pog to blizz

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Guilds that funnel loot to specific members for certain bosses are absolutely terrible 99% of the time because they end up with half their raid being useless. But I guess if it makes you and your friends happy to get full geared the fastest that's good for you, luckily that doesn't appear to be possible with this system.
.

LOL thats how we good guilds play and it shows in the rankings even now with personal loot you ill tade all your shit to the council, nothing will change it just makes us run less splits and we will have less restrictions to trade, youre just bad and mad cuz bad, who hurt you?

[Eazy]

As I wrote above that I don't have any problems with it, because I am not pugging raids, I noticed something wrong.

It's true that any item can drop? I mean even if the group is full of warriors/dks/druids/rogues the boss can drop, for example, a bow?

If that's true, then I am concerned that Blizzard is doing something wrong.

[Feral Druid ist Op]

This is incoherent rambling...

For the progression guilds that want to use master loot, the loot is not a "reward". The loot is a "tool" for progression. The distribution of loot is a social activity that is part of the overall team effort. All of your talk about "earning" and "reward" is completely missing the point of why these guilds want to use master looter.

^This, atlast some one in this shithole of MMO Champion is in hes right mind, good to see it

[Lathspell]

As I wrote above that I don't have any problems with it, because I am not pugging raids, I noticed something wrong.

It's true that any item can drop? I mean even if the group is full of warriors/dks/druids/rogues the boss can drop, for example, a bow?

If that's true, then I am concerned that Blizzard is doing something wrong.

They have to do it like that because you could just run 19 paladins and funnel everything to the 20th. You would get all the items in the raid from a single run.

[Caprias]

As I wrote above that I don't have any problems with it, because I am not pugging raids, I noticed something wrong.

It's true that any item can drop? I mean even if the group is full of warriors/dks/druids/rogues the boss can drop, for example, a bow?

If that's true, then I am concerned that Blizzard is doing something wrong.

Yes anything can drop but why is it of concern?
Doesn't it make things more interesting in a way that you need every armor class at least once even if it's just to "soak"?

[Mendzia]

It's true that any item can drop? I mean even if the group is full of warriors/dks/druids/rogues the boss can drop, for example, a bow?

If that's true, then I am concerned that Blizzard is doing something wrong.

Yes.
Ion talks about it between 15:15 and 17:00 on this vid: