I wish the old world was more alive.

[ImpalerEU]

He never said something like that. I also would not like to waste so much time on traveling. If you enjoy that go on foot and have your epic traveling adventure but don't force others into it.
Many people play WoW only for endgame content like raids and battlegrounds and don't care about open world.

And if you really wanna have immersive world and player interaction why you don't join some RP guild? Theres still plenty of them that do world events and some other RP things.

If you want the game to be nothing but stand in the main city and spam queue buttons, then you're playing the wrong game.

It's an MMO. Exploration, grouping, world content, and grinding in general should always be a priority.

[Iain]

for a company that seems to base 80% of their profit on sold xpacs + 2-3 months of sub, paired with smart cash grab systems like wow token, …. well it not seems like your concerns here are much of a hotspot for them.

These concern address exactly Blizzard's problem of limited content longevity. You're exactly right; People indeed buy an expansion and play it for 2-3 months and then they're done. Not because they don't want to play WoW anymore, but because the game doesn't offer them anything they would want to do. Yeah they could start sinking their teeth in the top tier content, but most people lack the logistics and discipline to commit to that level of play. So they quit.

BUt it doesn't need to be that way. Between challenging top tier content and resource-intensive storytelling, there's also the simple tasks players are being given on a daily basis. The world quests and the dungeons.

WoW has over a hundred zones and about a 130 dungeons. Let's say each zone has 5-8 world quests, including one that involves a dungeon that's now lifted into Mythic difficulty. Doesn't all have to be produced in one go. Blizzard can stagger their development and keep adding old zones into the fold.

Eventually there's hundreds and hundreds of world quests scattered across the world. The player will be directed by emissaries so they won't be overwhelmed and burned out. The amount of content, relevant content, that the casual gamer now gets to play is so vast that it replenishes its own novelty. By the time a player sees the same world quest twice, they've already grinded away at countless different zones and getting to do that world quest again will feel refreshing.

This is what keeps casual players subscribed. They don't need a challenge, and they don't need a lush singleplayer story with lots of cut-scenes and cinematics. They simply want to be given tasks to do so they have a reason to stick around and soak in these setting for a few hours a day.

[Niwes]

WoW token will very likely be retired once they are fully under MS since it will directly compete with their own gamepass subscription options.

a smart cash grab system has rather less to do with subscription options. normally. i don’t know that options of MS, so i don’t wanna say something wrong. but i believe it’s more a matter of greed and what company MS wanna be and look like (in the end it’s all a marketing thing), how their monetization strategy is and what financee philosophy they will establish. the „ATVI Blizz money makin machine“-way not necessarily must be the MS way to make profit. since in the longterm it has downsides (as of now, these are obvious). it all depends. we will see.

[Sauredfangs]

Check out the two post in my signature. I think you would like it.

[Niwes]

These concern address exactly Blizzard's problem of limited content longevity. You're exactly right; People indeed buy an expansion and play it for 2-3 months and then they're done. Not because they don't want to play WoW anymore, but because the game doesn't offer them anything they would want to do. Yeah they could start sinking their teeth in the top tier content, but most people lack the logistics and discipline to commit to that level of play. So they quit.

BUt it doesn't need to be that way. Between challenging top tier content and resource-intensive storytelling, there's also the simple tasks players are being given on a daily basis. The world quests and the dungeons.

WoW has over a hundred zones and about a 130 dungeons. Let's say each zone has 5-8 world quests, including one that involves a dungeon that's now lifted into Mythic difficulty. Doesn't all have to be produced in one go. Blizzard can stagger their development and keep adding old zones into the fold.

Eventually there's hundreds and hundreds of world quests scattered across the world. The player will be directed by emissaries so they won't be overwhelmed and burned out. The amount of content, relevant content, that the casual gamer now gets to play is so vast that it replenishes its own novelty. By the time a player sees the same world quest twice, they've already grinded away at countless different zones and getting to do that world quest again will feel refreshing.

This is what keeps casual players subscribed. They don't need a challenge, and they don't need a lush singleplayer story with lots of cut-scenes and cinematics. They simply want to be given tasks to do so they have a reason to stick around and soak in these setting for a few hours a day.

i agree to every bit and wished myself such a game design philosophy since years. but what my post wanna say is not, that this NOT solves one of Blizzards biggest problems (it does, at least to a good degree). what my post says is that they will not do it, because it’s expensive. Doing the next new created island, using some recycled stuff, but working on a green field base, copy/paste old things there, recolor them a bit and put some quick story and quests into it… all of that is cheap. or better said: cost effective.

implementing stuff into existing old world is not. you have waaay more dependencies. way more to think about. way more you can damage. in short: it’s expensive. and it’s more difficult to get done right.

Blizzard milks the cow. that’s why they don’t do that. they far more implement a wow token supporting game design into a completely new world, to grab money by that, to compensate money from player loss, BEFORE blizz ever try to add steady content by implementing and using stuff in the existing world.

short version: what you (we) want is not as cost effective as what Blizzard does (new xpac islands like dragon isles). and therefore they don’t do it.

[Andromedes]

Elder scrolls online has a good system to keep players in old world areas. Crafting nodes scale with your profession skill, so you can farm nodes in any area you want, equip scales with your level, every zone has its specific set, that you can farm via delves(soloable mini dungeons), quests, treasure chests, elite mobs in the zone etc.. Because there is housing system, you can farm furnishing plans in the old zones. There is antiquity system(similar to archeology) that also is source of housing furniture, or you can get some legendary equipment, if you gather all the fragments..

[Azadina]

I remember doing the run from Menethil to Loch Modan on a 12th level druid, my first toon. Gained a lot of experience and leveled up a couple times simply revealing the map back then. I had quite a day.
Op may have a point. I went back when I hit 16th level and the quests that opened up, the stories that were told...it was fun.

I did the run all the way from Goldshire, that had you deliver a package to Loch Modan. I remember it was 7 silver, and at the time it seemed like great money for a newbie who just started the game The journey was amazingly fun, and I ended up questing between Loch Modan and Westfall, as the quests and my level matched.

The second time I was sent across zones on a journey like that was from Duskwood to Wetlands on the Morbent Fel questline. These sort of quests were very memorable and fun experiences.

[facefist]

I think that the only way to make you feel that same thing you want to achieve with your list is to make WoW2.

I also miss the feeling of Classic, because when everything was new it felt so immersive. Now that I know zones inside out, there is no immersion at all. And because I know everything already, I will never have the same feeling again unless they make a new game.

[Unholyground]

I didn't say it was a bad system. I personally like it better than doing Dailies, WQs, and Dungeons over and over and over again like we've done in past expansions. I just hope they bring back the MoP style alt friendliness to the system.



I doubt it since they convert to Blizzard balance too.

Edit: Microsoft does not include Fallout 1st for Fallout 76 with the game pass. The free-to-play game is included with it, yes. But you don't get the subscription features of FO1st like the Scrap Box, Private Worlds, Personal Custom Worlds, Survival Tent, etc.

Also, XBox Game Pass is $10/mo. WoW Tokens cost $20.

Microsoft is absolutely not going to want you to be able to buy full games by playing World of Warcraft it won't happen so something's going to change with the token. Them taking a tiny hit monthly to World of Warcraft to add it to ultimate would make it the best deal in gaming every single person who plays World of Warcraft now would have game pass which means they would more than likely try other games. Everybody is looking at this from a money perspective but you have to look at it big bicture. Also game pass ultimate is quite a bit more than regular game pass.

[username993720]

I had similar ideas:
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...be-implemented

[Eosia]

Microsoft is absolutely not going to want you to be able to buy full games by playing World of Warcraft it won't happen so something's going to change with the token. Them taking a tiny hit monthly to World of Warcraft to add it to ultimate would make it the best deal in gaming every single person who plays World of Warcraft now would have game pass which means they would more than likely try other games. Everybody is looking at this from a money perspective but you have to look at it big bicture. Also game pass ultimate is quite a bit more than regular game pass.

You are forgetting that WoW Tokens have to be purchased with real money BEFORE someone can buy them with gold. They aren't just created and given an arbitrary value in game. As supply decreases, the gold value goes up and vice versa.

So say you want to buy DF Collectors Edition with Blizzard Balance you have converting WoW Tokens. Tokens convert to $15 each so it will take 9 of them to buy it giving you $135 in balance. WoW Tokens cost $20 each. 9x$20 = $180. So Blizzard just sold a Collectors Edition for Dragonflight for 33% more than if you had used a credit card. Somehow I don't think Microsoft will end it.

StarCraft and Diablo will be part of XBox Game Pass most likely, but a WoW subscription will NOT be. Otherwise I'd pay the $10/mo and get all those games AND Fallout 1st for 76 instead of paying $13/mo for Fallout 1st, having spent $50 to buy FO76+DLCs too.

[Unholyground]

You are forgetting that WoW Tokens have to be purchased with real money BEFORE someone can buy them with gold. They aren't just created and given an arbitrary value in game. As supply decreases, the gold value goes up and vice versa.

So say you want to buy DF Collectors Edition with Blizzard Balance you have converting WoW Tokens. Tokens convert to $15 each so it will take 9 of them to buy it giving you $135 in balance. WoW Tokens cost $20 each. 9x$20 = $180. So Blizzard just sold a Collectors Edition for Dragonflight for 33% more than if you had used a credit card. Somehow I don't think Microsoft will end it.

StarCraft and Diablo will be part of XBox Game Pass most likely, but a WoW subscription will NOT be. Otherwise I'd pay the $10/mo and get all those games AND Fallout 1st for 76 instead of paying $13/mo for Fallout 1st, having spent $50 to buy FO76+DLCs too.

You can't use vastly lesser MMO's as a comparison to World of Warcraft they do not have the brand power that wow has and they never will. It makes way more sense for them to put wow sub in because then they can use warcraft to sell gamepass which they 100% will. The WoW token has been very disruptive to the game on many levels so that is why I am guessing it will be retired, and I know it costs more for a token but I can garauntee the amount they would get from gamepass subs would greatly oitweight the token going away since EVERYONE has to pay a fee, no more tokens.

You don't spend 70 billion dollars on a company just for their games you do it for their user base.

[Stickiler]

You can't use vastly lesser MMO's as a comparison to World of Warcraft they do not have the brand power that wow has and they never will. It makes way more sense for them to put wow sub in because then they can use warcraft to sell gamepass which they 100% will. The WoW token has been very disruptive to the game on many levels so that is why I am guessing it will be retired, and I know it costs more for a token but I can garauntee the amount they would get from gamepass subs would greatly oitweight the token going away since EVERYONE has to pay a fee, no more tokens.

You seem to constantly miss the fact that even the most optimistic WoW subscription numbers are a FRACTION of what GamePass already has. Why would they force a bunch of time and money to be spent removing the Token, moving people to GamePass, losing subscribers(because there's always subscriber churn when you change things) to provide a minor bump in GamePass subscribers.

but I can garauntee the amount they would get from gamepass subs would greatly oitweight the token going away since EVERYONE has to pay a fee, no more tokens.

This is just flat out wrong, because everyone ALREADY has to pay a fee, and some of those people are(indirectly) paying 20$ a month, which is more than even GamePass Ultimate is.

[Eosia]

You can't use vastly lesser MMO's as a comparison to World of Warcraft they do not have the brand power that wow has and they never will. It makes way more sense for them to put wow sub in because then they can use warcraft to sell gamepass which they 100% will. The WoW token has been very disruptive to the game on many levels so that is why I am guessing it will be retired, and I know it costs more for a token but I can garauntee the amount they would get from gamepass subs would greatly oitweight the token going away since EVERYONE has to pay a fee, no more tokens.

You don't spend 70 billion dollars on a company just for their games you do it for their user base.

The WoW Token has NOT been disruptive to the game except in one aspect... it utterly annihilated the gold farmers that plagued the game. I guess you are a new player because otherwise you'd have seen the bots that would run to Orgrimmar and Stormwind, get to a specific spot and position, and then die, release, and do it again. This would happen over and over until the skeletons would spell out "www.getyouraccountbanned.com" or whatever URL for gold-selling and level boosting site they represented.

And no, they're not going to include a WoW Subscription as part of a package that costs a third less. Dream on. Every MMO I could find on XBox PC Game Pass that had a subscription, the fee was ON TOP of the XBox PC Game Pass fee. The only thing WoW you're most likely to get is the base game and the lowest edition of the expansions w/o any benefits. You're still going to pay to go beyond the Free-to-Play limits.

[Otimus]

I don't really care about pretty much anything on your list that I skimmed through.

If you wanna spend 2 hours rping your way from point a to point b... cool... give us teleports or flying cuz that shit is pure trash.

And making "things from around the world relevant" was also removed from professions because yup... pure trash.

To each their own, but I'll never understand the point of playing an MMORPG and not giving a damn about having a world in it. Every single thing WoW does, besides have a huge world with lots of players possibly in it, or any other MMORPG on the planet does, with the sole exception of allowing very large groups to co-op together, almost any other game on earth does better, and without a monthly fee. The gameplay quality just isn't there in MMORPGs to support this level of ardent dedication against one of the main provisions of the entire genre for me to understand this attitude. If all you want is the "game" part, and treat the world as a hassle and then a lobby, there's like a million times more engaging games out there than MMORPGs for that, IMO.

[Tentim]

To each their own, but I'll never understand the point of playing an MMORPG and not giving a damn about having a world in it. Every single thing WoW does, besides have a huge world with lots of players possibly in it, or any other MMORPG on the planet does, with the sole exception of allowing very large groups to co-op together, almost any other game on earth does better, and without a monthly fee. The gameplay quality just isn't there in MMORPGs to support this level of ardent dedication against one of the main provisions of the entire genre for me to understand this attitude. If all you want is the "game" part, and treat the world as a hassle and then a lobby, there's like a million times more engaging games out there than MMORPGs for that, IMO.

Its because you can never cross the same river twice or go home again.

No matter what they do world content is going to be trivial and dull to such a veteran player base. The good players will be annoyed by how tanky the mobs are and that they have to farm them. If you make the mobs so powerful they need groups to kill. You will see multiple 4 man groups forming to mass farm them like conduits.

The playerbase simply has outgrown the world and only a majority new to mmo playerbase would enjoy it.

[Scoutonduty]

Its because you can never cross the same river twice or go home again.

No matter what they do world content is going to be trivial and dull to such a veteran player base. The good players will be annoyed by how tanky the mobs are and that they have to farm them. If you make the mobs so powerful they need groups to kill. You will see multiple 4 man groups forming to mass farm them like conduits.

The playerbase simply has outgrown the world and only a majority new to mmo playerbase would enjoy it.

That simply is not true. There are games like Tomb Raider who attract a huge crowd have a high time, then die off over the years. There are games like League of legends of have a constant player base the rides the wave of content growing and shrinking over decades. And then there are true eternal games like poker or chess. Games that exists since millenia and have such a simple set of rules and very limited ressources with absolutely zero content patches. Still they are very actively play to this very day. World of warcraft in my eyes has potential to become an eternal game.

[Sauredfangs]

What if there were faction goals/objective like in Heroes of the storm in World of Warcraft that players can work towards so everyone in their faction can get a reward?

Example 1: Capturing ppv objectives like the Hellfire Fortifications gives your faction points. When your faction gets enough points from capturing world objectives your faction gets Gold and Honor rewards and also a statue and celebratory props in Thrallmar/Honorhold to show your progress/victory. Other zones that can have similar objectives: Southern Barrens, Twillight Highlands, Swamps of sorrows, Jade forest, Grizzily Hills.

Example 2: There is a farm in Tirisfal glades. If you turn in enough objective points that you get from caputuring world objectives in the zone, the crops will grow and players can loot food.

Example 3:Trade route: Capture a road that gives your faction resources/points overtime from traders and resource carts passing by. Crates of goods accumlate and Players can get a share of the resources.

Disclaimer: Points needed to win adjust to the amount of players in both sides. Say if there is 100 Alliance and 200 Horde, alliance only need 40 points and Horde 100.
The goal is to create content around both community and making impact in the world.
I think players can make an impact and get rewards without there being a winner and a loser. So both faction has a threshold to reach a reward regardless of the other faction.

Or

Maybe they can do something similar to Isle of Quel'danas. Where the collective effort of players has impact and change the world. Maybe they can do it everywhere.

There will be multiple progress like in Isle of Quel'danas and maybe this time the impact could be reversed if the players lose or not do the quest anymore. So doing the quest remains having an impact even if players reach max progress. Maybe it gets even harder at max progress.
Max/higher objective would be world bosses or outdoor dungeons. Wiping/dying on monsters helps reverse the progress.

Then there would be reward along with the world change too. Like buffs, daily trickle of gold and profession mats. Along with new quest. Losing progress made will take away the rewards.

Or

They can mix the 2 of my idea and create something better.

Edit: nvm, the first idea is PvP based while the second idea is PvE based.

[Romanthony]

As a hunter I admit, I miss having a Quiver on my back yea i know the legion artifcat apperance fixes that but I just generally miss having one. Would be cool if we had a Ammo pouch too for guns.

But when you said "more Alive" I thought you meant in terms of NPCS going on with daily lives things, Like in a open world game instead of just sitting around doing nothing

[Aggressive]

The WoW Token has NOT been disruptive to the game except in one aspect... it utterly annihilated the gold farmers that plagued the game. I guess you are a new player because otherwise you'd have seen the bots that would run to Orgrimmar and Stormwind, get to a specific spot and position, and then die, release, and do it again. This would happen over and over until the skeletons would spell out "www.getyouraccountbanned.com" or whatever URL for gold-selling and level boosting site they represented.

And no, they're not going to include a WoW Subscription as part of a package that costs a third less. Dream on. Every MMO I could find on XBox PC Game Pass that had a subscription, the fee was ON TOP of the XBox PC Game Pass fee. The only thing WoW you're most likely to get is the base game and the lowest edition of the expansions w/o any benefits. You're still going to pay to go beyond the Free-to-Play limits.

Speak for yourself as far as that wow token goes. Guaranteed your opinion does NOT speak for all the player base.