[Megathread] Star Citizen

[Shakzor]

Unbanned and it immediately devolved into going "everyone wrong and SC is the bestest there is and ever will be! Prove me wrong, but i'll ignore anything anyways!"...
The last 2 pages or so were quite informative to read and now we're back to nonsense again...

[MrAnderson]

Sounds like excuses.

I don't see it as an excuse at all. The time Dilatation technique EvE uses doesn't work with first person live action games, specially one with 6DOF.

You can't expect an fast pace action based game to be slowed down into a turn base game when a large number of players gathers in the same instance.
Imagine levelling in WoW and you go to a zone and all the gameplay slows down, you're character moves slower, your 1 second cast spell is now 10 second cast spell. All that because there's a huge group of people battling it out in the same zone. Better yet, imagine playing a FPShooter where reload would take 10 seconds instead of 1.

Basically, Different games with different requirements in network load requirements to be enjoyable so different challenges that need to be addressed.

And ISC show is finally back:


Wipe ongoing it seems new patch is being deployed.

[kenn9530]

The larger ships yes, those things are huge. You know little to nothing about current day Eve it seems. You realize that video is filmed from a rather large distance?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOMcDmnJ2XA

And again, count the orange dots. Again, way more players in one system 8 years ago then SC can handle today.



Irrelevant. Also doesn't SC organize events?



Most likely far more realistic then SC is to be honest. You know, how Newtonian physics work in space. Though Frontier, Elite 2 was far closer to that.



Irrelevant.
Besides, Titans in Eve are massive and the ships are very detailed. Not bad considering Eve is almost 20 years old and CCP has about 250 staff total.

http://crossingzebras.com/wp-content.../Eve_chart.jpg
https://lamp.im/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/flot-16.jpg
https://content.eveonline.com/www/ne...1/VEHEMENT.png
https://webimg.ccpgamescdn.com/kvd74...PENTIS_CAP.jpg
https://cdn.player.one/sites/player....atch-20.03.jpg
https://tagn.wordpress.com/2020/04/06/



Again: I already said "I am not saying SC servers should handle 2600 people" acknowledging it's not apples to apples comparison.



So much bullcrap. No mans sky, Elite, Eve all can handle more players then SC, and have far more then 1 star system. But muh details and muh realism... Yea SC has better textures and models, has nothing to do with what the server is doing.

And modelling / loading a star system is hardly a big deal considering programs like Universe Sandbox or Space engine exist that work fine on 5 year old PC's or even older.

You do realize it is not the server that renders the planets and it textures right?

The ships in EvE are tiny hot wheels compared to the scale of the ships in SC, there is no comparison, the ships in EvE are not to scale unlike the ships in SC so dont talk crap about the EvE ships being massive when in reality they are not for the game.

SC doesnt organise events atm or specifically devote resources just for the event, events on SC are run like like any other mission. All they do is design the event then activate it when its ready.

One Star Citizen ship is thousands of times more detailed than a ship skin in EvE, the ships in EvE are just inches long and are very low in poly count compared to the millions star citizens ships have.

You are trying to compare an EvE ship to a Star Citizen ship, when SC has ships to scale and EvE doesnt, EvE can have more players because the game barely uses any resources since the ships are just basic skins far below the level of detail one SC ship has.

No mans sky doesnt deal with lots of players in one area, and very rarely does that happen in Elite either, both games are run from your PC as a host, you can only team up with 4 ppl in NMS, and in ED unless you make a group you will be lucky to even see a player. A current fresh expedition has just started in NMS and you are lucky to see 3 other players in the same system that is part of the expedition so players would actually be there at some point.

You still dont understand how SC server is working currently, it loads everything currently in the system, in the future it wont as like other games they dont load everything in the sandbox at the same time as its populated at a certain player distance so most games load a small percentage of the data but star citizen processes the whole star system currently, thats why the servers have issues because they are doing too much.

[Kyanion]

dont talk crap

One difference between Eve and SC. All the ships in EvE are actually in the game.

- - - Updated - - -

You still dont understand how SC server is working currently

And neither do you.

[Amorac]

The ships in EvE are tiny hot wheels compared to the scale of the ships in SC, there is no comparison, the ships in EvE are not to scale unlike the ships in SC so dont talk crap about the EvE ships being massive when in reality they are not for the game.

Being to scale has no impact on server performance. So irrelevant

One Star Citizen ship is thousands of times more detailed than a ship skin in EvE, the ships in EvE are just inches long and are very low in poly count compared to the millions star citizens ships have.

Ship detail has no impact on server performance. So irrelevant and again, for a 20 year old game and total staff of 250 people it's a great result.

No mans sky doesnt deal with lots of players in one area, and very rarely does that happen in Elite either,

That's because those games load an entire universe with hundreds of thousands of systems compared to 1 star system. You know, that what you claim is a huge deal.

Oh, level of detail of the planets in the system is irrelevant as that is not something the servers handles. Just the position of it, movement etc. You know, like Elite does.

You still dont understand how SC server is working currently, it loads everything currently in the system,

It loads the positions and vectors and updates that with other stuff, stuff that other game servers need to do as well, but it does not load models/textures etc etc that you seem to think it does because you seem to claim the more detailed ships are the cause of the server limits.

It's the clients job to tell the server where the player is and where the guns are pointing to for example, the server 'only' verifies and sends that info to all other clients. Having better looking turrets means nothing.

In battle it's the client that tells the server "shot at ship X", the server then calculates if it hit and how much damage is done and sends that to the clients, the clients then render the hit/explosions/damage. Server keeps track of the damage done just like other games.

At least MrAnderson has some reasonable reply without spewing nonsense.

Won't be replying unless you come up with an good counter argument and not "it looks better, it will have, someday".

Basically, Different games with different requirements in network load requirements to be enjoyable so different challenges that need to be addressed.

Well, I did say several times it is not an apples to apples comparison (nor do I expect SC to handle 2600+ players as stated earlier as well). I'm just stating that games 20 year old can do it better then SC and people should go drooling about SC finally upping the player per server cap.

[MrAnderson]

Being to scale has no impact on server performance. So irrelevant
Ship detail has no impact on server performance. So irrelevant and again, for a 20 year old game and total staff of 250 people it's a great result.

The scale and detail of ships actually can impact the server performance since ships are actually fully modelled separate entities from the players, they have a lot of moving parts that need to be tracked for everyone. Unlike in EvE where the player is the ship which is just a skin, a empty shell. Same in NMS or Elite where Player = ship.

Which means that all the moving parts in the ships (doors, hatches, turrets, damage states) have to be synced and tracked as players can be moving inside and around the ship, exiting and entering turrets, opening hatches, firing bazookas from inside the ship to another ship, entering other players ships, moving vehicles inside the moving ship etc etc. That's a lot of information to track by the server and a lot more variation to take into account when optimizing the network.

That's because those games load an entire universe with hundreds of thousands of systems compared to 1 star system. You know, that what you claim is a huge deal.
Oh, level of detail of the planets in the system is irrelevant as that is not something the servers handles. Just the position of it, movement etc. You know, like Elite does.

Those games (NMS, Elite) don't load an entire universe though, they load pockets of it in small instances as they need and mask transitions with some neat tricks (blurry clouds, hyperspeed effects etc). In Star Citizen in fact it actually loads the entire system, which is you can actually see space stations in orbit from the planet and track players going from planet to space and vice versa without needing to be in their "lobby".

They are games where some of the packets runs client side and make heavy use of a hybrid Peer 2 Peer solution, which is why they can also be played offline.

Last I checked NMS had like a 8 player cap in the console version and 32 player cap on PC same with Elite, which I think although it has technically no hard caps on PC, to get more than 32 reliably is kinda hard since a lot of it will depend on the clients network since it will use p2p to host If I'm not mistaken.

Well, I did say several times it is not an apples to apples comparison (nor do I expect SC to handle 2600+ players as stated earlier as well). I'm just stating that games 20 year old can do it better then SC and people should go drooling about SC finally upping the player per server cap.

I wouldn't say it's a matter of better or worse because those games aren't doing the same thing. Like you said, it's not an apples to apples comparison.

[1001]

Those games (NMS, Elite) don't load an entire universe though, they load pockets of it in small instances as they need and mask transitions with some neat tricks (blurry clouds, hyperspeed effects etc). In Star Citizen in fact it actually loads the entire system, which is you can actually see space stations in orbit from the planet and track players going from planet to space and vice versa without needing to be in their "lobby".

Can't speak for NMS but this is not correct about Elite and I know it has been discussed before.

Elite loads the whole star system, not pockets of it. The transitions are for networking switching, not loading in parts of the system. This can be evidenced by exiting an orbiting station and landing on the planet without using supercruise, no transitions occur.
If there are 8 people at the space station and you travel 250 light seconds to the planet you don't need to know about those people any more, what matters now is those on the planet so a new matchup occurs.

[Amorac]

The scale and detail of ships actually can impact the server performance since ships are actually fully modelled separate entities from the players, they have a lot of moving parts that need to be tracked for everyone. Unlike in EvE where the player is the ship which is just a skin, a empty shell. Same in NMS or Elite where Player = ship.

Scale not as it does not make any difference if a ships scale is 1/1000 or 1/1 from what it should be. It does not matter if a ship model is 1 meter long with 1000 turrets or 1000 meters long with 1000 turrets. Nor does it matter if the doors are to scale or not, or windows etc etc. Not for the server anyway. Server only cares what is the status of turret with ID 1, door ID 44, or window 632 of the ship with ID 62783. Not how big that door is, how it looks etc etc.

Turrets are (should) only be updated when needed, and that should mostly be the client telling the server "turret nr x is tracking ship y" and "turret x fired on y". The server sends that message to other clients and calculates if it has hit or not and if yes what the damage is. The client renders that.

And AFAIK, Eves has turrets as well, and drones, lots of drones.

So, even while Eve is in some regards simpler, the difference of 2600 people in one system vs 50 is just to to big. SC should be able to handle 200 at least imho without crashing.

Now, SC also is thinking to simulate NPC doing their business to take a dump for some reasons. Why? Who is going to see them do that? Why track that if the server software is not handling what you already have.. It's like the client rendering the entire 3d world behind the player, a waste of resources.

Which means that all the moving parts in the ships (doors, hatches, turrets, damage states) have to be synced and tracked as players can be moving inside and around the ship, exiting and entering turrets, opening hatches, firing bazookas from inside the ship to another ship, entering other players ships, moving vehicles inside the moving ship etc etc. That's a lot of information to track by the server and a lot more variation to take into account when optimizing the network.

Doors and hatches are messages mostly. Is it locked, open, destroyed. Not much for the server to calculate but storing info and passing it along to whatever clients needs it.

And that basically is my issue with server meshing. You need to update all instances of the server software with that data while adding more latency (and memory requirements) esp when those instances are part of a (space) battle. If you have a space battle with say 200 people (not ships) and 1 instance can handle 100 people, both these instances will need to know almost everything the other instance knows, and also need to update all other instances (esp when a player of that instance is in the same system). That may work if the instances are running in its own container on the same server but then, why not have 1 instance without the extra overhead. If the container is on another server you just add more latency, is it on another switch even more...

Those games (NMS, Elite) don't load an entire universe though, they load pockets of it in small instances as they need and mask transitions with some neat tricks (blurry clouds, hyperspeed effects etc). In Star Citizen in fact it actually loads the entire system, which is you can actually see space stations in orbit from the planet and track players going from planet to space and vice versa without needing to be in their "lobby".

An entire system, 1 solar system. On the server, not the client. We were talking about the server part of the game.

AFAIK Elite server does load the universe, not in the game client (no need here) but the universe is tracked on the server. Now, maybe not every planet but it will need to do that for every system that has a player in it. I think the client does load the entire system the player is in though (since every client is kind of a server here, Elite does use peer2peer like you said with a 'soft cap' of 32 players per instance but no real hard cap. There have been 100 per instance as far as I know. We are talking about a game released in 2014...

Of course the server does not load in planet models, textures etc. Just where everything is and how it is moving.

We are not talking about tricks the client does to improve performance right? Why would the server need tricks like make clouds blurry to improve its performance.

/edit apologies if I come over grumpy or something, had a hard day (year really).

[kenn9530]

Being to scale has no impact on server performance. So irrelevant



Ship detail has no impact on server performance. So irrelevant and again, for a 20 year old game and total staff of 250 people it's a great result.



That's because those games load an entire universe with hundreds of thousands of systems compared to 1 star system. You know, that what you claim is a huge deal.

Oh, level of detail of the planets in the system is irrelevant as that is not something the servers handles. Just the position of it, movement etc. You know, like Elite does.



It loads the positions and vectors and updates that with other stuff, stuff that other game servers need to do as well, but it does not load models/textures etc etc that you seem to think it does because you seem to claim the more detailed ships are the cause of the server limits.

It's the clients job to tell the server where the player is and where the guns are pointing to for example, the server 'only' verifies and sends that info to all other clients. Having better looking turrets means nothing.

In battle it's the client that tells the server "shot at ship X", the server then calculates if it hit and how much damage is done and sends that to the clients, the clients then render the hit/explosions/damage. Server keeps track of the damage done just like other games.

At least MrAnderson has some reasonable reply without spewing nonsense.

Won't be replying unless you come up with an good counter argument and not "it looks better, it will have, someday".




Well, I did say several times it is not an apples to apples comparison (nor do I expect SC to handle 2600+ players as stated earlier as well). I'm just stating that games 20 year old can do it better then SC and people should go drooling about SC finally upping the player per server cap.

Being to scale does have an impact to the server performance, means more ship data to load in to the server so what the hell are you talking about, a ship in EvE is a couple MB of data while a ship in SC is multiple times more.

ED and NMS doesnt load in all the data at the same time thats why there is a loading screen everytime you jump systems so no the whole universe is not loading on your computer at the same time because it couldnt handle it, the information is in the background services and only loads in on the server when needed, thats the way it will work with SC once everything is in place, planets and stations,etc will sit in the background services not using up server resources but still operate in the simulation and only load when a player is near enough.

No star citizen currently loads everything on the server, the planets cities,etc are all loaded in because players are spread out throughtout and the background services are not in full operation, so you are wrong about that, you clearly have not followed any of star citizens development with the clear lack of knowledge and understanding.

[KevyB]

*garbage*

You have no idea what you're talking about, and as someone who works with networks/backend engineering, i would rip you a new asshole in public for this garbage and make you hide in a hole for the rest of your life, but alas someone would need to pay me to give you that lecture since i don't share my knowledge for free these days.

So i'd rather just tell you that - be quiet and stop embarrassing yourself, you're way off-mark boy.

[Amorac]

Being to scale does have an impact to the server performance, means more ship data to load in to the server so what the hell are you talking about, a ship in EvE is a couple MB of data while a ship in SC is multiple times more.

Really? Do you compare a 3D computer model to real life models or something???????

The server does not need to know ship size at all, it does not matter at all if the ship is 1 meter or 1 km long. There is no more data to load since you are talking about scale, scale does not equal detail or lack of detail with a 3D computer model. I can model something in CAD give it plenty of detail and then scale it up and down as I please, no loss of detail. No difference in memory usage either unless I do something with textures, and even then that depends on what I do. For example duplicating a texture does not increase memory usage perse. It's just telling the program, apply texture again to this model on this location, the program will not load in an extra copy of that texture.

Also, do SC servers have eyes or something? Why would it load the model? Is it going to look at it from all angles to see if a laser hit it?

The server should 'just' load data from the database server, like tables. If not, someone is being an idiot.

For example

Player Z and Y both fly ship with ID 14656

Table A has the ship ID and some other default info, like what corp build it, how much it costs, how many turrets.

You load that and every other relevant table like ones that hold the default ship config, like the table that holds the ships turret information, with data of location on the ship in xyz points relative to the ships 0.0.0 location, thati s either in the middle, the front or back.

Something like
Turret 1; 10;10,5
Turret 2;-10,-10,5
Turret 3; 15;10,10
etc.

You assign ID 14656 to player Z and Y.


If player Z has replaced a module with something else you make a reference to that -> get Ship ID 14656 and replace module 545 with 655, no need to load the table completely again (unless the programmer is a moron)

Now Z and Y go into combat, the client then tells the server Z is targetting Y with Turret 1,3 and 4 and fires on Y shield module 2. Server looks up the locations of turret 1,3 and 4 and shield module 2, calculates if the shield module 2 is hit or not, if yes, calculates how much damage if any was done, send back to both clients.

Absolutely no need to load in a complex 3d model.

Same with the solar system, you load in data points, not models. Location relative to the center of it is orbit, orbital speed, rotation, size. You don't load in cloud textures you load in xyz location of clouds.

[Shakzor]

--snip--

Some sound advice, just ignore the guy and move on. He has absolutely 0 interest in anything even resembling a discussion. Everything SC does is the best, everything is perfect and genius, no one has any clue about developing but himself and lalalala i can't hear you.
I mean there's even a VERY long thread of him contradicting himself on numerous subjects, but usually just ignores whenever these things are brought up.
It's actually quite sad he's unbanned, because the discussion about server infrastructure and playernumbers was quite interesting to read, but we'll sadly just go back another 20 pages of "you wrong" "no YOU wrong!" "nu uh, you wrong"

[kenn9530]

snip

Its very clear you have no idea what you are talking about, you dont understand that a ship in EvE is a small amount of data where as a ship in star citizen is many times larger, that incurs a performance cost, the devs have already stated this in presentations about object container streaming, you are just embarrassing yourself saying there is no different between a ship with full interiors and working parts to essentially just an outside ship skin for EvE, the more data a server has to deal with the more it effects server performance.

You simply dont understand the scale of star citizen and how the servers currently work, they are not operating how the company is wanting them to work in end result as all the systems are not fully inplace so server performance is affected when there is too much strain on the server meaning too many players and assets loaded into the server at the same time.

In the future the player will fly around in thier own bubble server and that will connect to other players nearby, anything in the system that a player is nowhere near will be running in the background and be loaded only when needed, anything that loads into the server affects server performance, the scalability of this can potentially lead to space battles of thousands of ships close to each other it would just be split into several server bubbles of a certain amount of ships.

A ship in EvE is not to scale, its not 18km long its more like 18cm long as a model, the devs are not going to make to scale ships for a game like EvE as that is just creating work for nothing.

[Kyanion]

Its very clear you have no idea what you are talking about
you dont understand
the devs have already stated
you are just embarrassing yourself
You simply dont understand
they are not operating how the company is wanting them to work
In the future

The typical word salad here. Covers all the bases, a few insults at the person in question, speaking for the devs as if they have secret knowledge and predictions of a supposed future where this game is actually working as intended.

[Amorac]

Its very clear you have no idea what you are talking about,

Says the guy who thinks servers load in complex 3d models without any need does not understand how scaling a 3d model works and not countering any points at all with just jada jada bla bla crap crap replies

Also good go at putting words in my mouth I never said, and ignoring I acknowledge there is a difference but ye.. Seems you lack that quality.

I doubt you even understand what (Server-Side) Object Container Streaming is. And if SC server tech loads in models... Well no wonder their server tech is so crap.

Have a nice life Kenn, discussing, using the word loosely, with you really is a wasted effort.

[MrAnderson]

That's not how percentages work. It's a 100% increase going from 50 to 100. A 200% increase would be from 50 to 150.

https://mobile.twitter.com/CaptainZy...C9TJ8O4Bw&s=19

Looks like CIG added dynamic server caps with some going into the 150 player and there's even talks of 180 player server sights.

So the 200% increase in server cap wasn't wrong after all so I've unfixed the fix.

[kenn9530]

Says the guy who thinks servers load in complex 3d models without any need does not understand how scaling a 3d model works and not countering any points at all with just jada jada bla bla crap crap replies

Also good go at putting words in my mouth I never said, and ignoring I acknowledge there is a difference but ye.. Seems you lack that quality.

I doubt you even understand what (Server-Side) Object Container Streaming is. And if SC server tech loads in models... Well no wonder their server tech is so crap.

Have a nice life Kenn, discussing, using the word loosely, with you really is a wasted effort.

Its all about the size of the data the server has to process, the data for a star citizen ship is very large and its clear you have a complete lack of any understanding when you claim it has no impact of server performance, thats the whole point in object container streaming in the first place to help with performance by not having things loaded into a server when its not needed.

Its pretty simple logic, a ship in EvE is tiny and produces a tiny amount of data that effects performance, a ship in star citizen is vastly more complex so has an increased affect of server performance, until server meshing is fully implemented the servers have to deal with a lot so thats why they occasionally crash.

[Nurasu]

its clear you have a complete lack of any understanding

You keep using "size" and "complexity" interchangeably when they are not. That's his only point. It's very simple. Yes, SC ships use far more data than EVE ships. No, it has nothing to do with the fucking "scale". Next.

[kenn9530]

You keep using "size" and "complexity" interchangeably when they are not. That's his only point. It's very simple. Yes, SC ships use far more data than EVE ships. No, it has nothing to do with the fucking "scale". Next.

Its pretty simple, a larger ship that is more data means it takes up server resources and affects performance so scale does matter, he claims it didnt affect server performance at all, if a game does things to scale it has an affect on performance, EvE isnt making 18km ships to scale they are a fraction of the size so dont have much of an affect to performance.

Scale matters, if you make a full scale ship its going to have an affect on performance, thats pretty basic logic. Thats also why comparing EvE battles is pretty stupid on the scale, SC and EvE combat is completely different.

[Amorac]

Its all about the size of the data the server has to process, the data for a star citizen ship is very large and its clear you have a complete lack of any understanding when you claim it has no impact of server performance, thats the whole point in object container streaming in the first place to help with performance by not having things loaded into a server when its not needed.

Really... Says Kenn9530 who claims the server loads in the whole 3d model while arguing with somebody who claims that is not needed since it is a waste. The server has no need to know every vertex point of the model now does it.

And I never claimed it has no impact nor did I ever claim SC should be able to handle 2600 players did I. At best I claim that 50 players and crashing is bad even for an alpha in 2022. But that's to hard for you to grasp? I put question marks on their meshing tech and doubt they will ever get around the issues raised.

I claim a developers does its best to have the server only load that what is needed. You claim you load everything because? Why exactly? Does it matter if the server knows how door nr 24 of ship 55123 looks or is it enough to know if door nr 24 is op or closed or not working?

Why load in an entire planet? Whats wrong with just having the data for it in a table. The server is a computer, it does not need a visual to do its job now does it.

I claim that it does not matter what the scale is but you don't seem to grasp that if I take say the 600i model and scale it down to half it size there is no loss in data, not with a 3D computer model. You can double it, data size it would not be different for the model. The positions of the doors, turrets etc are relative to the center of the model and do not change. The only data that is different is that the size is now 45.5 meters, or 182 meters. The server or database would care nothing about that. So the server gets that data and calculates with that, it is not going to look at the model. Its not a jpg that loses data if you scale it down from 7680x4320 to 640x480....

And datapoints like coordinates do not take up that much space to be honest, no database would have a hard time handling a ship data if it got 10 turrets doors and other stuff or 10000000. It would not even need to use compression for that. Neither would the game server. Try it, save a text file with 10000000 and see how bit it is. Try it with 876463243245363988134365442334213534566446546685476634455435142336157637675648566846526134 2251344657457305202405225245^100

Yea, unless you are stupid enough to load the entire model sure. Let me guess, you also believe they load the model for every player that uses the same ship? If they do, damn those programmers really are idiots.

Maybe SC also sends all model data over to the clients as well with every tick?

Nothing I say is really a bad thing for SC either, unless they do it the way you claim it works. So not sure what your issue is? You want the server handle things badly and have performance issues.

Ugh.. Fell in the reply to (bleep) trap again..

- - - Updated - - -

Its pretty simple, a larger ship that is more data means it takes up server resources and affects performance so scale does matter

It doesn't.
Take the model of the i600, scale it down to half its size, you still have all data points. Only if you start taking away vertices will that change.
Take the model of the i600, scale it up to double its size, you still have all data points. Only if you start putting in vertices will that change.

Also, just the 3D model alone does not take up much space, that's what textures do mostly. Try it, make a huge texture less model with a million vertices and save it. Double the size and save it. See how much difference the file size will be.

he claims it didnt affect server performance at all, if a game does things to scale it has an affect on performance, EvE isnt making 18km ships to scale they are a fraction of the size so dont have much of an affect to performance.

Never claimed that it had no impact, just that it should not be as bad as 50 players max with crashing.

Scale matters, if you make a full scale ship its going to have an affect on performance, thats pretty basic logic. Thats also why comparing EvE battles is pretty stupid on the scale, SC and EvE combat is completely different.

You don't seem to get how computer 3D models work. You seem confused with real life models, or the concept of making low quality models for use in the back ground.

Again, just scaling a model down does not reduce detail. It just makes it smaller.

/now really not going to go into this anymore. (hopefully )

- - - Updated - - -

https://mobile.twitter.com/CaptainZy...C9TJ8O4Bw&s=19

Looks like CIG added dynamic server caps with some going into the 150 player and there's even talks of 180 player server sights.

So the 200% increase in server cap wasn't wrong after all so I've unfixed the fix.

I'll admit that's a good increase (180), closer to what I would expect from a modern multiplayer complex simulation game like SC.

If they get their server meshing working with 200 players per instance and are able to get at least 10 instances to work together, kudos to them.