Crisis in UK, Can Tories Save Liz Truss?

[molliewoof]

If she is ousted soon and there isn't a fucking general election until 2024, we can no longer call this a democracy. I know it is on shaky ground right now as to whether you can call it a democracy, e.g. you vote for the party, not the PM, therefore if the PM goes the government doesn't necessarily go with them (or so some say), however this is just absurd, the damage is real, we simply cannot continue like this, especially not on the say so of 80k people.

And if they put Johnson back in...fuck it, I will be up for a riot.

I see they won their fracking vote, but some serious allegations being made about behaviour by tory whips in the no camp, I understand an investigation into what happened in and around the lobbies.

While agree it shouldn't happen, there is precedent for it e.g Gordon brown.

It might actually be worse if they called an election now, labour will be in government for some of the most difficult times we've seen in decades and ousted the next election rather than getting a decent run. (A thought I had while typing this)

It's bitter sweet, I want the Tories to fail miserably but by extension, that means I do ... Sigh

[Pann]

I imagine that there are many who share these feelings - https://twitter.com/DanJohnsonNews/s...08074875973633

In an unusual u-turn it turns out that the whips who resigned may not have resigned.

[molliewoof]

I imagine that there are many who share these feelings - https://twitter.com/DanJohnsonNews/s...08074875973633

In an unusual u-turn it turns out that the whips who resigned may not have resigned.

Wow.

I don't think I've ever seen an MP talk like that.

Did he just basically call the entire cabinet useless

[Pann]

Wow.

I don't think I've ever seen an MP talk like that.

Did he just basically call the entire cabinet useless

I believe he is stepping down at the next election so he can say what he thinks without fear but normally you have to wait until they've left office before you get this level of honesty from an MP.

[Gorsameth]

I imagine there are a fair few MP's who are very upset they are being made a part of an actual clown fiesta.

[tehealadin]

While agree it shouldn't happen, there is precedent for it e.g Gordon brown.

It might actually be worse if they called an election now, labour will be in government for some of the most difficult times we've seen in decades and ousted the next election rather than getting a decent run. (A thought I had while typing this)

It's bitter sweet, I want the Tories to fail miserably but by extension, that means I do ... Sigh

It is true that victory could defeat Labour in the long run, people have short memories and would have no issue blaming Labour for the mess that the tories have created/made worse if they likely can't undo it. That being said, things are so fucked right now, and if the UK is to have a future in its current form, I think one needs to happen soon, if this mob are still in charge come the Scottish indy ref, I think it will swing it.

[Pann]

It is true that victory could defeat Labour in the long run, people have short memories and would have no issue blaming Labour for the mess that the tories have created/made worse if they likely can't undo it. That being said, things are so fucked right now, and if the UK is to have a future in its current form, I think one needs to happen soon, if this mob are still in charge come the Scottish indy ref, I think it will swing it.

People do not have short memories when it comes to things like this. They waited five years to boot the Tories out following Black Wednesday and Gordon Brown was shown the door two years after the financial crash. It will take something extraordinary for the Tories to escape voters' ire regardless of whether a GE is held next week or in two years' time.

Also why do you keep mentioning Indy Ref? Both the Tories and Labour are taking the stance with Sturgeon of get on with running your country instead of manufacturing grievances so unless the Supreme Court say the SNP can hold one without government permission - which as far as I'm aware even the SNP don't think this will happen - there is going to be one.

[dribbles]

People do not have short memories when it comes to things like this. They waited five years to boot the Tories out following Black Wednesday and Gordon Brown was shown the door two years after the financial crash. It will take something extraordinary for the Tories to escape voters' ire regardless of whether a GE is held next week or in two years' time.

Also why do you keep mentioning Indy Ref? Both the Tories and Labour are taking the stance with Sturgeon of get on with running your country instead of manufacturing grievances so unless the Supreme Court say the SNP can hold one without government permission - which as far as I'm aware even the SNP don't think this will happen - there is going to be one.

I think the issue with the SNP is that Labour don't win an outright victory at the next GE. The price of the SNP putting Labour in power albeit in coalition would be Indyref2.

[Pann]

I think the issue with the SNP is that Labour don't win an outright victory at the next GE. The price of the SNP putting Labour in power albeit in coalition would be Indyref2.

It doesn't matter Lab don't need them and Sturgeon knows it. Even if Lab are in the position to form a minority government the SNP still have no leverage over them because what are they going do? Vote with the Tories?

[tehealadin]

People do not have short memories when it comes to things like this. They waited five years to boot the Tories out following Black Wednesday and Gordon Brown was shown the door two years after the financial crash. It will take something extraordinary for the Tories to escape voters' ire regardless of whether a GE is held next week or in two years' time.

I hope you are right, but I don't share your optimism. They also have the trump card of blaming Johnny Foreigner and there are an awful lot of people who like that card. It enabled a known buffoon, liar and charlatan to win a massive commons majority. Everyone knew it would end in disaster, but they voted for him anyway, knowing exactly what he was, because fuck frogs.

Also why do you keep mentioning Indy Ref?

I mention it because there will be one, Sturgeon plans to have one and come hell or highwater, it will go ahead. Not gonna lie, I am a little astounded by your comment.

Both the Tories and Labour are taking the stance with Sturgeon of get on with running your country instead of manufacturing grievances so unless the Supreme Court say the SNP can hold one without government permission - which as far as I'm aware even the SNP don't think this will happen - there is going to be one.

UK government interference will likely backfire, and is politically stupid. Whilst all of the indy supporters are really up for it, there are plenty in opposition who still feel that they should have the right to say no a second time. Any blocking of this would likely cause more backlash in Scotland than Westminster is prepared to handle, and by backlash I mean some serious civil unrest (I genuinely suspect you would get thousands of angry Scots descending on London to smash the place up), especially given the Brexit referendum result, the union would be politically toxic on a level I don't think we have seen before.

And I am not sure how many outside of Scotland know that there is an almost religious fervour to a significant core of indy supporters. They literally don't care about repercussions. They (the religious core, not all supporters) literally believe leaving the UK will automatically fix all ills in Scotland. Both the tories and labour don't seem to have read the room on this issue.

The only people I am aware of who think they won't have a referendum seem to be people outside of Scotland. I live in Scotland- trust me- it is going to happen, regardless of what Westminster think. So this is why I bring it up. Don't get me wrong- I do not support it, nor the SNP (I can't stand them), but the only way this gets laid to bed for another decade is to have the vote, one way or another westminster will have to sanction it.

And in case it isn't obvious, I mention it in a thread about the lunacy of the UK government because if this mob is still in charge come the referendum, it will push a lot of fence sitters, or even those with one foot in the no camp, into the yes camp. And therefore a continuing of this madness puts the integrity of the union at stake.

[Pann]

I mention it because there will be one, Sturgeon plans to have one and come hell or highwater, it will go ahead. Not gonna lie, I am a little astounded by your comment.

It doesn't matter. She cannot hold one without permission from Westminster and they will not give it to her - whether it is Truss, some other Tory or Starmer in charge - and despite what Sturgeon would have you believe polling has not altered from 2014 (there's still no majority for independence) and only a third of Scots actually want a referendum within her time scale. (I suggest watching her interview with Kuenssberg)

[tehealadin]

It doesn't matter. She cannot hold one without permission from Westminster and they will not give it to her - whether it is Truss, some other Tory or Starmer in charge - and despite what Sturgeon would have you believe polling has not altered from 2014 (there's still no majority for independence) and only a third of Scots actually want a referendum within her time scale. (I suggest watching her interview with Kuenssberg)

Oh I imagine those figures are true- however the idea of it not going ahead because Westminster said no is a very different thing, and will be received differently. And it would be a politically stupid move.

I think you overestimate Sturgeon on this. She would happily do a Catalan style referendum. Enough of her movement is a cult. I do not think she is the rational actor many give her credit for, she has gotten great mileage out of not being Boris Johnson. They want their way no matter what. No matter how poor or isolated they might make Scotland, they want this to happen. And given that they are still the biggest party in Scotland, they believe they have the democratic mandate to ask the question again.

Don't get me wrong- I don't want it to happen. The timing is bad. However people in England think that Westminster just says no and that is that, I don't really know what to say other than watch this space.

[Pann]

Oh I imagine those figures are true- however the idea of it not going ahead because Westminster said no is a very different thing, and will be received differently. And it would be a politically stupid move.

I think you overestimate Sturgeon on this. She would happily do a Catalan style referendum. Enough of her movement is a cult. I do not think she is the rational actor many give her credit for, she has gotten great mileage out of not being Boris Johnson. They want their way no matter what. No matter how poor or isolated they might make Scotland, they want this to happen. And given that they are still the biggest party in Scotland, they believe they have the democratic mandate to ask the question again.

Don't get me wrong- I don't want it to happen. The timing is bad. However people in England think that Westminster just says no and that is that, I don't really know what to say other than watch this space.

This is going very off topic. Legally Sturgeon requires Westminster's permission to hold another referendum and she will not get it. The fact that this upsets a minority of racist SNP supporters who hate the Toaries (read English) is neither here nor there.

She can do a Catalan style referendum if she likes but it would no more valid than a poll held here on these forums.

She claims to have a mandate for independence as the SNP are the largest party in Holyrood despite failing get 50% of the 63% turn out in 2021 even though she told the BBC Sunday Show “Thursday is not an independence referendum, it's not asking people to vote yes or no. When we ask people to make that choice, just as we did in 2014, we will put forward a detailed perspective.” https://www.scotsman.com/news/politi...rendum-3222149

It has nothing to do what people in England think, if Westminster say no that is that but of course Sturgeon will continue use this to deflect from the SNP's failures and poor governance and use it to manufacture yet more grievance.

She has no mandate, no support and no plan for independence yet they plough no matter the cost to the Scottish people.

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So it would appear that the confidence vote that wasn't a confidence vote was really a confidence vote after all and in order to stop the whips from un-un-resigning an unknown number of Tory MPs will be disciplined for not voting in Schrödinger's confidence vote.

That'll go down well.

It's going to be another rollercoaster day in Westminster!

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Downing Street Statement at 13:30.

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Gazza has been seen heading towards Downing Street with a box of KFC and a fishing rod.

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And just like that it was all over.

[jonnysensible]

Liz resigning. Tories/Brexit vision of Britain destroyed. When will the cunts give us a general election to get the rats out. Tories are more focused on talking about where trans people take a shit than the economy or public services.

Shes a fucking delusional cunt. She never had a mandate to do any of those things. Get in the fucking bin.

[Twdft]

At least she knows how to keep it short

[Pann]

Now we've all the fun of the Tories selecting another leader!

I wonder whether the next PM will last longer than the leadership contest?

[jonnysensible]

great the 80,000 demented cunts who picked her will now pick another demented tory cunt.

my 40-1 bet on her fucking off came in tho so happy days.

[Pann]

The lettuce is feeling pretty chuffed right now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sm-RE95lKJ0

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@dribbles are you Ready for Rishi?

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The next leadership contest is set to be fast tracked and decided amongst MPs. Hunt is not standing my assumption is that the final two will be Sunak and Mordaunt and whoever has the least votes will concede but it will be interesting to see what Wallace does.

Oh FFS! I'm now seeing that the members might be involved... do they not learn!?

[Twdft]

my 40-1 bet on her fucking off came in tho so happy days.

What are the quotes for a fifth PM in 2022? Not a betting man myself.

[tehealadin]

Chris Grayling might as well put his hat in the ring, complete the set. They have turned this country into a joke. The next PM must call a GE asap. We can't keep having a relative handful of tory members fucking the country like this.