The reason most play DPS (it is not because they like DPS or because they hate tanks)

[epigramx]

Vengeance would like to know your location.

That was the single most fun period of time, to play a tank.
I remember building a Dodge/parry warrior, with tons of crit. The rage-generation was so much fun!

Now the playstyle of tanks are slow and boring.
When the playstyle is focused around staying alive, it gets pretty boring for me.

That was mentioned before and it's a passing gimmick in this discussion. We're talking about overarching concepts across expansions and not passing flukes.

And as you say yourself: it's dull; that's because their rotations that make pure numbers are extremely simplistic; skill finds a cap for numbers easier there.

[lllll]

I didn't mean they can't even keep some basic threat or move almost correctly in sort-of the route even if it's slightly off course.

That's not what I'm talking about. Mediocre tanks EXPLODE when trying to tank higher keys, you can't heal them because they die before you can even start healing them due to the damage output in higher keys.

[epigramx]

That's not what I'm talking about. Mediocre tanks EXPLODE when trying to tank higher keys, you can't heal them because they die before you can even start healing them due to the damage output in higher keys.

Those are just bad. I doubt they can even do normal raiding properly. I was talking about people with average skill that would easily fail a key on dps spec but people will usually carry them on tank spec because tanks are more rare to find.

[epigramx]

It's impossible for dps to carry bad tanks in basically any key where wiping is possible.

They can't carry terrible tanks, but they will often carry an average tank, while they will often abandon an average dps because dpses are easy to find.

[lllll]

Those are just bad. I doubt they can even do normal raiding properly. I was talking about people with average skill that would easily fail a key on dps spec but people will usually carry them on tank spec because tanks are more rare to find.

Average skill people aren't doing high keys.

[epigramx]

Because more people play dps…

Of course. Hence the fact remains, you can more easily rank as a tank on the same skill compared to your dps spec because you can more often be carried hence tanking is 'easier' in the context of end-game PvE ranking.

because it’s easier.

As just mentioned: not if it's harder to rank and that's your goal (and it's objectively the goal of most playing hard PvE). Also people are scared of tanking because they have to learn routes in 5mans but that's extremely easy to learn if you are exclusively tanking in a new expansion launch.
And being a dps that tries to be on the 99th percentile of performance is extremely more complex than tanking usually.

- - - Updated - - -

Average skill people aren't doing high keys.

Average is another subjective word. Point was the same person with hypothetically the same skill on tanking and dpsing, will usually rank easier on tanking because they may be carried more often hence tanking is 'easier' in the context of end-game PvE ranking (unlike what most people claim).

[lllll]

Average is another subjective word.

No, "average skill" is based on aggregate data. The average player is not doing high keys.

https://raider.io/mythic-plus/cutoffs/season-sl-4/eu

This is just people that have actually done m+, not counting people that haven't touched it. The average player hasn't even got all dungeons at +10.

[tomten]

I don't get what's so funny. Level 16 was generally the most common key in the game. Also most people didn't care to time them because it was only for gear so even if they fail it's often not because of lack of skill (it may be even on purpose in specific cases)..

Because its so wildly out of touch its hilarious??
You have stats on completion for KSM... Its not even close to 50%... Let alone 99%...
15s (and to extent KSM) is and are considered so hard by the majority of the playerbase they dont even try to attempt it.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Tanking should have more group support abilities or something to make it more engaging imo.

Like also pushing DPS and healing and Blessings of Sacrifice and battle rez and playing single biggest role in overall group DPS by how they pull and position mobs? Who in group has more to do than tank?

[epigramx]

No, "average skill" is based on aggregate data. The average player is not doing high keys.

https://raider.io/mythic-plus/cutoffs/season-sl-4/eu

This is just people that have actually done m+, not counting people that haven't touched it. The average player hasn't even got all dungeons at +10.

You misunderstand what a character is in the game. It's not a person. The 4th alt of someone with a god-like character will be there and their alt will suck.

- - - Updated - - -

Like also pushing DPS and healing and Blessings of Sacrifice and battle rez and playing single biggest role in overall group DPS by how they pull and position mobs? Who in group has more to do than tank?

Their dps is a 'toy' rotation of a couple of buttons most of the time. Try to be consistently on the 99th percentile of dpses and report how easy it was. Many tanks are carried.

- - - Updated - - -

You have stats on completion for KSM

Who told you all people with skill care to do it? Mythic raiding is filled with people clearing the mythic raids very early, and they hate 5mans.

[lazza25784]

Guess what, epeen means nothing to some of us. For me I just wanted to play as a mage, always have and 14 years on it is still my main. Heck I don't even really run a damage metre.

[lllll]

You misunderstand what a character is in the game. It's not a person. The 4th alt of someone with a god-like character will be there and their alt will suck.

What are you even talking about now?

Fact is that the average player haven't even done all the dungeons on +10.

[epigramx]

What are you even talking about now?

That you take stats of all characters, and you equate those to people, and you think that represents on what main character they are the most skilled at.

[Kaleredar]

When you're DPS you don't have to keep other people alive. All you generally have to do is focus the boss/adds, and maybe know some positioning stuff. Healers and tanks have to do all that AND keep themselves and their teammates alive.

It's literally just vastly easier to be a DPS.

[epigramx]

tanks have to do all that AND

No they don't. Their dps rotations are extremely simplistic. Try to be consistently on the 99th percentile of dpses and report back how easier than tanking it was.

[Kaleredar]

No they don't. Their dps rotations are extremely simplistic. Try to be consistently on the 99th percentile of dpses and report back how easier than tanking it was.

here's the thing about being in the "99th percentile" of DPS:

only that 1 percentile of the players cares that hard.

Meanwhile, the vast, vast majority of players don't care about DPS parses or raid logs or any of that nonsense. They know it's just easier to hit their buttons when they light up to get their loot than it is to try and keep aggro on a bunch of mobs, position the boss correctly, use defensive CDs both proactively and reactively, or maintain a view of all the people that need healing, utilize the proper heals for the situation and respond correctly to burst damage on both the tank and raid.

[SinR]

99% of the parses belong to 1% of the player base!

Occupy Azeroth!!!!

- - - Updated - - -

Also, FWIW: I play DPS on retail (when I did) cause I don't want to have to learn the exact pulls for every fucking Mythic Plus dungeon, only to get shit on when I don't execute perfectly.

[SaucyThighs]

It's a number of reasons like others have mentioned but this is definitely a big one. After years of going all-in on topping meters and parses it doesn't matter as much to me as much as it used to so I'll be healing in Dragonflight.

That said I do enjoy having measurable progress and am still competitive in a low-key way, and that's what logs are good for. I'd like to cultivate a guild environment where performing well is aspired to an acknowledged, but beyond a flat number. One where nobody is impressed that you padded the meters, and we acknowledge whenever someone actually did what was optimal for the fight. Then when it's on farm we can all pad the meters together if we want.

I don't know much about it but I'm assuming there is plenty of skill to measure for tanks within logs that goes beyond the damage meter.

[Toppy]

I used to tank in WoW, till mythic+ got big. Then I largely dropped it because mythic+ seems designed to be frustrating and stressful for tanks rather than enjoyable. Raids? Great, but mythic+ is a garbage fire for tanks.

Wish they would actually consider mythic+ when designing the dungeons. Its been a major thing long enough for them to do that, but they dont. They should enforce paths rather than having it so that a month or two in the players find out the "best" way to do things and if you dont know it your garbage. At least if blizzard enforced a path it wouldn't be a deterent like the player enforced paths are.

[SaucyThighs]

No they don't. Their dps rotations are extremely simplistic. Try to be consistently on the 99th percentile of dpses and report back how easier than tanking it was.

I think to be more clear -- tanking has a higher skill floor, at least the impact of doing it poorly is more significant on the lower end. DPS have more room to be brain dead and "get by" in the game. Tanks, Healers, and DPS all have a skill ceiling higher than almost any player will reach.