Yeah, but they live in the same area.
It isn't that big of a place. And it isn't a dialect, it is a completely different accent. They were all born and raised together, and are trapped within a barrier that prohibits them from interacting with people outside of their small kingdom. I get what you are saying, but it doesn't apply in the least here.
RIP Genn Greymane, Permabanned on 8.22.18
Your name will carry on through generations, and will never be forgotten.
I grew up in a city, and there were different dialects in the city. Some of it was ethnic, like the Norwegian neighborhood was distinct from the Chinese neighborhood. Some of it was economic, the rich white neighborhood has a different sound than the poor white ones. Take a quick walk from South Boston up to Beacon Hill or Cambridge.
Cities are dynamic, they keep pulling in new populations.
The characters in Willow mention that their city changed a lot becvause of the great wars, yada yada. One of the main characters explains that she was the child of refugees even.
It's a staple in castle dramas. The lords and ladys talk differently from the servants. The servants are mish-mash between each other. Then the head butler will talk in a weird-overly-exagerrated way. Like it's simply a narrative device, to help the viewer distinguish them from the 4 other butler types.
Aside from that. The show has it's fun points. But it is brought down by some very clunky dialog and characters. Makes one miss Val Kilmer even more. He had a ability to evelvate otherwise mediorce scripts.
Last edited by Milchshake; 2022-12-05 at 08:44 PM.
Government Affiliated Snark
Watched the first two episodes. No strong feelings about it so far, even watching it in the background because it's not all too exciting so far.
I don't mind the plot so far. Acting is okay. I'm not sold on Warwick Davis' performance, his acting comes off a bit bland to me. I really like the dude, but I don't think he's carrying this series.
Me and Hubby are watching and we're "caught up" with the released episodes.
We are enjoying it. I'm not saying its a "Game of Thrones" level show, but neither is it "Rings of Power" (or "Wheel of Time") =D.
Its clearly meant as a FAMILY friendly show, which makes sense if you are a fan of the movie. A fun, not-complicated (no goT family affairs or politics), medieval-fantasy quest-adventure tv show. If that's all you are expecting from it, I think you'll enjoy it like we have so far.
All the typical fantasy tropes which is, again, nothing else but what I expect from a plot built off an 80s fantasy movie. So far we've liked the characters 'just fine', the plot is fine, and the pace is just fine. There's nothing AMAZING we've seen so far but there's also nothing AWFUL about the writing either - because its meant to be on a child-friendly level and it does that just fine. We find ourselves interested in learning more about this fantasy world and seeing how the characters develop in this first season. We've been entertained, and we've laughed at some of the character jokes - And that's all *we* were asking when we started this series.
If you're looking for gritty, realistic, 'real world grounded' fantasy then this is NOT the tv show for you. Guess what - everything in this medieval world is "clean" so if that's going to be a problem you're already not the viewer for this show. If you're looking for high politics and deep writing, also NOT the show for you.
But if you are fine with 70s/80s high fantasy 'style' and tropes, and a family-friendly quest adventure-style plot for a tv show - then I'd say definitely give it a chance.
Also wanted to mention - man props to the effects/makeup departments! The first appearance of the magical-monster-bad guys (2nd episode I THINK) showed TOP NOTCH makeup/creature-creation and were actually 'unique' and, I bet for younger kids, could be a little scary! Much more impressive looking (the creatures themselves) and well done than I was expecting for a tv show. Actually felt more intimidated by - and interested in - this pack of magic-villians than any Sith from the newer, modern, Disney shows. (And the creature wielding dual bonechain-whips - definitely could fit as a Darth LOL).
Last edited by Koriani; 2022-12-06 at 10:53 PM.
Koriani - Guardians of Forever - BM Huntard on TB; Kharmic - Worgen Druid - TB
Koriani - none - Dragon of Secret World
Karmic - Moirae - SWTOR
inactive: Frith-Rae - Horizons/Istaria; Koriani in multiple old MMOs. I been around a long time.
I used to live in Brooklyn. which is a single borough of a 5 borough city. granted NYC is as populated as some countries but back to my point which actualy relates to this. in Brooklyn alone we had a gamut of accents going on depending on which neighbourhood you went to. and because my specific neighbourhood (a block of roughly 5 avenues and 15 or so streets) was becoming more and more blended even before we moved across the state lines? you would hear a variety of accents WITHIN that block of streets and avenues.
this kingdom as isolated now, but it has first generation immigrants in it still so... it would make less sense if it didn't have variety of accents. IMO
It looks and sounds great. Like it feels mostly like a 80's movie ( in a good way). the effects are top notch. Acting also very good.
Only down side i would say is the writting...its a bit meh.
yeah and the other downside is that its being review bombed because of certain aspects of a relationship in the series.
So, i watched the movie years ago, as a kid, and watched later because it was one of the movies that more than often was in TV. I judge the movie from the time it was made and how things were back then, i have to say, for the time, it was a pretty good fantasy movie with fun moments, cool story some cliches to cement as i would say, a classic.
I was baffled by the creatures and how the entire village was made of real little people, as a kid that blow me away and after that i still appreciate the committed. Of course there was some details they could have worked much better in the plot, like Sorsha betrayal to her mother. it was shallow and rly meh. Tbf the story centered around Willow and to a degree Madmartigan who had rly cool character arc, so not much screentime for her..
I even watched the movie again to prepare for the show, sure it was made by disney but i gave a chance cause they took old actors, but man, first episode was rly bad.
Like, why in the ass the kingdom send the Queen kids AND THE QUEEN herself to defend it against 4 people, where are the soldiers, army or whatever? and why she just happens to know she need to send her kids and the other prince? contrived plot that happens because the story said so, i would like some decent motives or reasons of why she did that, even a vision would help, cause it was hard to believe two young kids and Boarman were the only and most capable people to save the prince.
Also, why the hell Sorsha became such a bitch? maybe she was always like that but we never realize because we didn't spend much time with her? but man awful characterization, especially awful when you get the actress to play the role again, its like another character. She was an idiot to Willow for no reason, She was a warrior under her mother command, why she was bitching about her daughter? why Jade tells there was no woman knight?
Her daughter is also a insufferable twat, why she is even in this show? Jade is so far fine, she is loyal want to do her duty, i appreciate character like that, Boarman is their discount Madmartigan i guess not impressed, and i rly Like Flash from spider-man and Elora, but "Kit"? what the fuck is even that name? the stereotypical girlboss just make it worse, Show would be 100% much better if you erase her entirely. Don't like her brother either.
I passed trough the bad first episode and the second was much better all defects considered(the princess ruining the show, eye rolling moments), but explained a lot of important things, so points to that, gonna see the third episode soon, but overall ok-ish considering the writing /dialogues are bad sometimes.
To end, im a bit disappointed with Willow's actor, seems like his acting isn't at his best...
Hard agree, they almost gave him the Han solo treatment, but seems like it was a red hearing.
Seems like things will get offset by the enemies being powerful, and they will, for sure, dumb down and nerf willow so the other could shine.Willows restricted physical abilities with madmartigan being the scoundrel talented warrior using him for his own ends and ultimately caring for him and being his protector was the heart of the film. That trailer gives the impression Willow is now the all mighty sage bringing in new adventurers. More Op characters without clear weaknesses their partners help them overcome yaaay
Too bad seems like the plot is driving too much away from Elora and Willow this time, wait and see i guess
Last edited by Syegfryed; 2022-12-09 at 02:15 PM.
Just watched episode 3, and it was even worse than the first, some rly bad writing and nonsense things. First, they introduced two plot points that retcon the original movies, one, that magic have to be nurtured or it fades, and you become a normal person, thats not true, Willow was an adult man with kids when he start to learn magic and become a great sorceror. Second, that Willow has to somehow "save" his magic, cause apparently it does not recharge.
first was a red hearing to Elora and second is so that willow don't save everyone with magic, lazy writing to me.
They introduce some nonsense second plot about a magic cuirass, that does not enhance the narrative at all(as it focus on kit, who continue to be a stain in the show) and it shows to be some sort of weird technological device????? what?
The plot continues rly weird: Enemy capture the chosen one in the last episode, and there is no damn urgency to find her(and Elora kinda gets worse in this episode, don't know why they went that route). She is gone for the entire night and they don't bother to look for her, only in the morning. Later they know people on horse back are with her, they waste precious time with the fucking wagon(who just end up destroyed later), they lost so much time that it baffling. So yeah this was a big flaw to me, chosen one, hurry to get her back, basic.
The worst thing though, out of fucking nowhere, two women living in the forest, that look like they came straight out of the fucking Texas, using blue jeans and cowboy hats??????????????
At fist i though it was some weird dream like, Jesus seing the devil in a business coat, but no, they were real, and obnoxious with a goofy accent. They serve no damn purpose and just die later, and she end up captive anyway, is som of the things that make the show better if it wasn't there.
Something that bothers me overall, and its sign of a not o good writer, is powescale, you have magic strengthened people who is show to split a tree in almost half with a sword with their inhuman strength and inhuman speed, but then you have bullshit like skinny people parrying a powerblows from those inhuman guys and fighting then toe-to-toe, hell the woodswomen won against a full-fledged knight of the realm, like holy molly. Don't set people with inhuman strength and speed if you are going to those in the first place.
So, yeah, first episode was bad but this ws rings of power level of crap, rly let down from a good episode 2, and there was some good things in this, but overshadowed by the amount of nonsense. Guess this show will be all about ups and downs.
Yeah, we don't have any of the issues you do with the writing on this show. Certainly disagree on the "rings of power" comparison.
Again, not saying its top notch either. But just not at all 'thrown' by the things throwing you. Its clear this show is written to be enjoyed/understood by /children/ like the original movie was, so I'm not looking for top-notch plotting and the 'holes' bothering you, that most kids don't see (and you didn't when you watched the movie as a child), aren't bothering me because I understand where the show is aiming for. *shrugs*
And Willow was never that powerful a sorcerer. They made a big deal out of this in the movie (his claim of being powerful but rarely displaying that power and it took much effort when he did) so I don't know why you are so suck on the 'power comparison' and that they are 'making Willow less powerful..' when he was /never that powerful/ in the movie. *shrugs*
And I won't even begin to try and claim 'retcon' to a single 90 minute movie's worth of lore from 40 years ago. There's so much NOT touched on in that movie that writers pretty much have carte blanche to create this magic system and world in order to fill and flush-out a multi-season-series. This is NOT a "Rings" situation where there's a handful of books and a handful of movies they have to pull from (or stick with canon already established). They have almost nothing besides "trope medieval-world with magic" and "Willow is a sorcerer" (of some strength at all), and "Elora Danon Chosen One" to build a whole series off of - so as long as those three 'facts' are included, they've covered it.
I feel I can SORT OF give you "if you don't use your magic you lose it" statement - as I can agree that it did not appear (was it really stated though? don't remember) that was the 'magic system' they were dealing with in the original movie. But that's about all I can agree with - its 'sort of', maybe, a 'retcon' - but that's pushing it (for me, even) because I DO acknowledge they are pretty much creating this from scratch and so I give them that leeway.
I can't really agree on 'save your magic else you use it up' because I'm not willing to say this was something they changed, or didn't, from the original - only because this never came up in the original. Its LACK of coming up, to me, does not equal the statement that 'it didn't work that way before' - its just not something included in the 90 whole minutes we have about this 'world' to use. And since many, many, things about this 'world' didn't come up in that 90 minutes I can't turn around and say everything NOT already covered in those 90 minutes should be considered 'wrong'. I don't agree with that mentality. I'm ok with them flushing out a 'barely described' magic system with rules not covered in the original movie. *shrugs*
The Curiass wasn't introduced in episode 3, its been talked about since episode 1. Yeah, I agree its a silly device overall, but this is trope fantasy with trope quests and that's what I expect. *shrugs*
I won't get into any further breakdown of your points. This show isn't that 'deep', so picking it apart minute by minute, it isn't going to hold up. Its not meant to - because this is family/child/friendly stuff. Already spent too many words getting 'deeper' than this show ever means to be. =D
I just don't consider that a negative. I can enjoy tv shows without the 'depth' as much as I enjoy those with 'depth.' I grew up in the 80s, of course I can! =D
But yeah, if you want 'depth' like that - go find other shows. You're going to be continued to be disappointed, i'm sure, if you keep watching this one. No, the writers aren't going for that level of 'realism'.
Me - I'm just hoping they bring back the 'brownies' and that they are half as hilarious.
Koriani - Guardians of Forever - BM Huntard on TB; Kharmic - Worgen Druid - TB
Koriani - none - Dragon of Secret World
Karmic - Moirae - SWTOR
inactive: Frith-Rae - Horizons/Istaria; Koriani in multiple old MMOs. I been around a long time.
Am I the only one who sees my posts? =D
Cuz I'm watching with hubby. And we like it for what it is.
But yes, so far just me and Siggy here to talk about the show. How about instead of calling him out for not liking it - just you know - contribute to the topic!
Hubby's chomping at the bit to watch the next episode, actually. But I think that's more of a sign of the rest of the shows we have to watch on our list being even less entertaining than a sign that THIS SHOW is all that amazing. (Cuz we know its not /all that/.)
Koriani - Guardians of Forever - BM Huntard on TB; Kharmic - Worgen Druid - TB
Koriani - none - Dragon of Secret World
Karmic - Moirae - SWTOR
inactive: Frith-Rae - Horizons/Istaria; Koriani in multiple old MMOs. I been around a long time.
I watch and episode and a half (I was tired), but since then my Disney+ and Hulu apps are being wonky, and I cannot log back into them. I want to keep watching (despite my dislike of the off putting accents).
I side eye'd some things that could be viewed as pushing a progressive agenda, only because it is getting tiresome. But I remind myself each time that the original Willow was very progressive for its time. So it makes perfect sense for this one to be a reflection of the times and the current progressive movements.
RIP Genn Greymane, Permabanned on 8.22.18
Your name will carry on through generations, and will never be forgotten.
If you though the accents were off, wait to see the lesbians in the forest using cowboy clothes, had, blue jeans, boots, whole package, and the accent, oh gosh
How the original movie was very progressive for its time? because it had the dwarves? to me it was just a generic fantasy movie. And if it had, it was done rly right since i didn't noticed, something the show doesn't do.I side eye'd some things that could be viewed as pushing a progressive agenda, only because it is getting tiresome. But I remind myself each time that the original Willow was very progressive for its time. So it makes perfect sense for this one to be a reflection of the times and the current progressive movements.
Last edited by Syegfryed; 2022-12-15 at 05:17 PM.
Willow - It's A Total Disaster
The Critical Drinker
Dec 15, 2022
Willow, the latest low-effort product on Disney+, is pretty much the personification of everything bad about modern writing. Join me as I take a look.
Not just the lead being a little person, but also the abundance of little people. That is pretty huge. They could have cheated it, but made sure to give work to those who may not get as much. They were handled very well.
From the legend himself, "“I think it's so important that art reflects what we see in the world,” Warwick tells Inverse, speaking on the show’s LGBTQ+ representation and its diverse cast. “You know, people with dwarfism are often not represented properly in film and in television. But we do see that in Willow [the movie and the series]. And we’d love to actually expand upon that if we do more seasons.”"
Additionally, Sorsha being a strong female character that wasn't overly sexualized. She was a well crafted character in that regard.
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Anything i've seen from this youtuber has been complaints. So I don't watch their stuff as it would be predictably a complaint session.
Is this video going to be a huge rant about everything they feel is wrong with the show? Or will this be an fair review which equally points out the good and the bad?
RIP Genn Greymane, Permabanned on 8.22.18
Your name will carry on through generations, and will never be forgotten.
I don't agree that much with the Sorsha bit, cause im sure i saw other movies similar to that, but yes to the little people, great move and made the movie a lot better in a way to create imersion.
Something the show doesn't do trying to aproach different themes.
Shit, four episode is out but i dread what i will see next.
This shot look like a group of friends larping in a forest
Compare to The Princess Bride, released the year before, and its treatment of Buttercup. She's incredibly passive; her one real moment of initiative is threatening to take her own life to avoid marriage to Humperdinck. She exists, in the story, to be pretty, and to be an object of desire who two men are fundamentally competing over. While I could criticise that, in the scope of the broader concept of TPB including Golding's book, it's entirely acceptable (the book is written as an abridged-and-commented retelling of an 18th-century novel or thereabouts, so it holds to narrative standards of its hypothetical era and Golding's commentary reflects on such differences).
Sorsha, by comparison, is a fully-fledged character who pursues her own interests and goals and holds her own against the other protagonists. She's sexualized about as much as Madmartigan is.
I can't handle Youtube "critics" any more. Not only is half of what they say just subjective preference presented as if it were objective fact, they avoid any good elements, which means their goal is not "criticism and analysis", it's "shitmongering". They're appealing to an audience who wants to see the content shit on. I still watch some film analysis Youtubers, but they don't present themselves as "critics".Anything i've seen from this youtuber has been complaints. So I don't watch their stuff as it would be predictably a complaint session.
Is this video going to be a huge rant about everything they feel is wrong with the show? Or will this be an fair review which equally points out the good and the bad?
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Literally any shot of people in fantasy clothes in a forest will look like a group of friends LARPing in a forest. Because that's what those friends are trying to look like, themselves.
What next, complaints that the Star Wars OT stormtroopers look like 501st cosplayers?
Personally, I enjoy this clown world where shows fail so badly that they destroy an IP but the company still pays for making more of the same shit. Reminds me of all those more modern Steven Seagal movies that are so incredibly bad that it's a complete mystery who the hell keeps giving him money to make movies, and it just HAS to be some kind of money laundry scheme.
Btw, Rings of Power will have another season because the previous wasn't a big enough disaster.
At a certain point you have to wonder if you haven't stepped into the Twilight Zone and now failure is considered success.
Last edited by Cynical Asshole; 2022-12-15 at 07:08 PM.