No Dragonflight numbers from Blizzard means??

[Lolites]

OT: DF is a flop, confirmed by numbers.

there are no numbers just "less than SL"...
and "less than SL" which was fastest selling wow expansion and briefly fastest selling pc game in history is now flop, okay, interesting definition of flop...

basicaly this thread (and others) summarised:
fools: "why no numbers? it must mean wow is DOOOOOOMED!"
anyone with at least half a brain: "its just probably lower than SL, so no record sales, hence no braging"
blizz: "DF didnt reach SL sales"
fools: "it didnt reach the HIGHEST sales wow ever had, it must mean wow is DOOOOOOOMED!"

[Relapses]

there are no numbers just "less than SL"...
and "less than SL" which was fastest selling wow expansion and briefly fastest selling pc game in history is now flop, okay, interesting definition of flop...

basicaly this thread (and others) summarised:
fools: "why no numbers? it must mean wow is DOOOOOOMED!"
anyone with at least half a brain: "its just probably lower than SL, so no record sales, hence no braging"
blizz: "DF didnt reach SL sales"
fools: "it didnt reach the HIGHEST sales wow ever had, it must mean wow is DOOOOOOOMED!"

If the preceding 57 pages weren't proof enough, don't bother playing semantics with people who just want to be miserable.

[Cherry123]

I didn't buy a dragonflight because of the low hype. BFA was the height of the hype, a lot of CGI cinematics, song of the daughter of the seas, teldrassil, but then covid happened. DF seems empty, it looks like an anime filler that everyone is skipping

[Laqweeta]

Oh, me too! And I don't even like the genre. It really is a hidden gem!

OT: DF is a flop, confirmed by numbers. All the forum screamers going 'back to basics' got their way, and everyone enjoying systems got f-ed, and quit. The obvious outcome really.

I like that, It's tried and true. At a time WoW was level to cap > do normal dungeons for gear > heroic dungeons for better gear and then raid - and that was that. Dailies were there too, which was fun as well as rep grinds - Just fine.

And that was enough.

This day and age though there has GOT to be a grindable system or people get too bored, players have changed,

[TidalConflux]

DF is so far a painfully average expansion, especially after two bust expansions in a row - it wasnt going to sell hotcakes nor beat Shadowland's record initial sales. Retention is the most interesting stat here, but without a number to base it off -- its really meaningless other than a lower percentage of people are leaving the game.

I hope the story progresses to something more interesting - it feels too much like base MoP where the story has to cook and develop. Also the raid tier needs to actually be more compelling.

[Zoibert the Bear]

DF reminds me of WoD in a bad way.

[GreenJesus]

It feels like dragonflight is the pity expansion. Everyone is like "well at least it's not as bad as BFA and SL". To me the mythic+ dungeons have been terribly balanced and tuned, solo shuffle was a great system addition has been a disaster of class balance and healer MMR system has just been horrible experience , and paladins are way past due their rework (both ret and holy should have been reworked before launch), new profession systems are extremely flawed with no catchup system and there were exploits everywhere. The raid is okay but honestly nothing special. This expansion is basically just "meh".

[SoulSoBreezy]

Really entertained by the expert analysis of the first third of the first season of DF as "the expansion."
Feels like there's a lot of overthinking. SL's performance and the Blizzard lawsuit did some serious damage to the usual faith that goes into preorders.

[arkanon]

Really entertained by the expert analysis of the first third of the first season of DF as "the expansion."
Feels like there's a lot of overthinking. SL's performance and the Blizzard lawsuit did some serious damage to the usual faith that goes into preorders.

So others analysis is silly, but your excuses, sorry, reasoning is logical and sound? You must realise how hypocritical your comment is, right?

All I have seen is fanbois refuse to acknowledge the obvious reduction in the playerbase, and even when blizzard outright say so themselves, they just shift the goalposts and start ignoring what blizzard told them - this expansion has not performed well.

The focus on not besting SL is interesting - SL was not the highest selling expansion, it was the fastest. But considering the timing, many entertainment providers were experiencing all time high, record breaking engagement and sales. I would love to compare total sales of SL with total sales of, say, legion, or wrath/cata.

I find it strange, or more accurately, interesting how easily they can twist the narrative and manipulate the smooth minded into believing the "fastest selling" record is meaningful at all. It's not.

[FelPlague]

You seem to forget that BfA also had a bigger launch than DF and there were no lockdowns back then. Maybe the simple truth is that Legion was just a damn good expansion that breathed new life into a dying game and BfA and SL benefited from it because players kept returning hoping they'd be as good or even better than Legion.

So I have a simple question for you. If Legion is a lot of players' favorite expansion, what does DF offer them that would make them think it's gonna be as good as Legion? Think about it for a sec and you will figure out why it flopped and why that has little to do with lockdowns.

Show us your source.
Cause they only said SHADOWLANDS.
Show us your source for BFA having bigger launch then dragonflight.

[Relapses]

DF reminds me of WoD in a bad way.

WoD represents the last time they decided to forego the systems-driven approach of the preceding expansions so there's a bit of relevance in that thought. We have M+ this time around, though, so it's not completely analogous.

[Murlocos]

I think people largely forget how utterly anemic 6.0's content offering was: two Apexis dailies in your garrison, a handful of rep grinds for tabards and mounts you could complete in a few evenings. All the posthumous eulogizing of WoD that the content was great but there wasn't enough, or that it had the potential to be really good rings hollow when you see how many people were dropping the expansion after 2-3 months en masse compared to the slower, more managed decline of Cataclysm and MoP.

Blizzard's largely dropped the ball across the board for the past 4 years and squandered trust that was built up for decades. Many of those players are gone for good, and it's going to take quite a while to convince the masses that it's worth reinvesting their faith in the company. Retention will be interesting here compared to how spike-driven player population has been since BfA.

[MoanaLisa]

You seem to forget that BfA also had a bigger launch than DF and there were no lockdowns back then. Maybe the simple truth is that Legion was just a damn good expansion that breathed new life into a dying game and BfA and SL benefited from it because players kept returning hoping they'd be as good or even better than Legion.

So I have a simple question for you. If Legion is a lot of players' favorite expansion, what does DF offer them that would make them think it's gonna be as good as Legion? Think about it for a sec and you will figure out why it flopped and why that has little to do with lockdowns.

They haven't said that. Maybe it was. Maybe DF was bigger than BfA but smaller than Shadowlands. It would be kind of nice to have people 1) stop lying about things they don't have any factual source for and 2) on both sides, stop trying to trigger a fight which is all MMO-C seems to be now.

If DF is the first expansion in memory that didn't set new sales records at launch that doesn't mean that Blizzard is 'bleeding out.' I imagine they will be profitable again this year as they have been profitable in the past. The dismissive argument that WoW is a license for printing money is quite true as is Diablo Immortal and the rest of their IP's to a greater or lesser extent.

It will be a relief to see the Microsoft deal closed. If MS follows true to form they won't report anything at all about WoW in their quarterly reports (take a look at the last report and behold how entirely generic it is) and except for die-hard doom-seekers this 20-year argument can be put to bed. Blizzard which managed to generate about two billion dollars in the last year will be entirely buried in Microsoft's nearly $200 billion yearly revenue making it unlikely that Microsoft is going to say anything much about it. Their last earnings call didn't mention PC gaming at all. The entirety of their comments about gaming in the earnings call are quoted below:

In gaming, we continue to pursue our ambition to give players more choice to play great games wherever, whenever, and however they want. We saw new highs for Game Pass subscriptions, game streaming hours, and monthly active devices, and monthly active users surpassed a record 120 million during the quarter. We continue to invest to add value to Game Pass. This quarter, we partnered with Riot Games to make the company's PC and mobile games, along with premium content available to subscribers.

{later}

We expect Xbox content and services revenue to decline in the low single digits as growth in Xbox Game Pass subscriptions will be more than offset by lower monetization per hour and third-party and first-party content.

So that is that.

[arkanon]

WoD represents the last time they decided to forego the systems-driven approach of the preceding expansions so there's a bit of relevance in that thought. We have M+ this time around, though, so it's not completely analogous.

What systems were driving mop and cata that were removed for wod? I don't remember.

[Glorious Leader]

What systems were driving mop and cata that were removed for wod? I don't remember.

They used to give you pretty decent gear for badges and shit. They slowly started moving away from when they saw people just using that as alternate progresssion. Basically they made the game less to do at max level in wod in favor of raiding. In the broadest of strokes non group content wasn't worthwhile to pursue anymore because shit like frost badges didn't buy you shit. So after the Boredlords of Draenor complaints started getting around you get an entire progression system in legion which was the most fleshed out and best example of how to do that. Every other iteration at that has failed which is the real systems criticism I think. Not that they always suck in principle just that none of them felt as cool and fleshed out as the legion artifact weapons.

[arkanon]

They used to give you pretty decent gear for badges and shit. They slowly started moving away from when they saw people just using that as alternate progresssion. Basically they made the game less to do at max level in wod in favor of raiding. In the broadest of strokes non group content wasn't worthwhile to pursue anymore because shit like frost badges didn't buy you shit. So after the Boredlords of Draenor complaints started getting around you get an entire progression system in legion which was the most fleshed out and best example of how to do that. Every other iteration at that has failed which is the real systems criticism I think. Not that they always suck in principle just that none of them felt as cool and fleshed out as the legion artifact weapons.

How many badges per week were you getting for non group content prior to WOD?

[Byleth]

If the preceding 57 pages weren't proof enough, don't bother playing semantics with people who just want to be miserable.

I'm not miserable, nor am I a WoW doomsayer. I'm just a person who didn't like their design direction for DF and decided to step away.

I do however, believe that DF is a flop - But - I'm open to be proven wrong. Only time will tell.

[Dhrizzle]

DF reminds me of WoD in a bad way.

Reminds me of MoP with the wall of dailies and rep grinds.

[shise]

Dragonflight never offered anything.

It had 3 huge things on it´s favor, but one was exploited massively and another was made worthless.

1- Nice, big new zones: yes, beautiful new maps, no doubt.
2- Fun questing.... but non existent. Being able to level up in an evening is just absurd, specially on an expansion marketed as "adventurers"... bs.
3- Drgon riding: fun and nice, refreshing.... but imposed over normal flying is a big failure. Plus, it does not hold World of Warcraft... WoW is much bigger than just a new system of whatever... it just comes to show how alien the new game developers are to this game.

Then we go into end game, which is non existent. It is all the same all over again as the last few expansions... M+, whch should not exist as it is. A super, hyper toxic environment of instant gratification and rushed game. It simply has nothing to do with actual World of Warcraft.

[Zoupa7]

there are no numbers just "less than SL"...
and "less than SL" which was fastest selling wow expansion and briefly fastest selling pc game in history is now flop, okay, interesting definition of flop...

basicaly this thread (and others) summarised:
fools: "why no numbers? it must mean wow is DOOOOOOMED!"
anyone with at least half a brain: "its just probably lower than SL, so no record sales, hence no braging"
blizz: "DF didnt reach SL sales"
fools: "it didnt reach the HIGHEST sales wow ever had, it must mean wow is DOOOOOOOMED!"

SL wasn't the highest sales WoW ever had. This earnings report mentioned early sales, not 1st day sales, which was the record SL set.

And they didn't even say it came close to SL's early sales (again, not 1st day sales). It's obvious there was a significant decline in early sales and SL's early sales were likely been behind previous expansions. The only reason it set the 1st day record was because of increasing tendency to pre-order.