Are the new Warlock race options a lore problem?

[Tanaria]

I still think Nightborne can fill that fantasy a bit better, but in the end, it just depends on your personal expectations. Night elves can achieve pretty good Highborne feel with all new customizations and warlocks will complete that feeling nicely.

I personally will probably go for draenei female lock a la Eredar Twin. I think Draenei racial might be good for them, making them even more sturdy with another self heal. I will probably also create tauren lock as a meme character, just for lols. Nothing can stand in a way of infernal cow from hells.

I think it comes down to a small youtube channel which created Warcraft 3 Reforged Models for the old Highborne Warlocks like Xavius and Pero'tharn so I've always wanted something within Night Elf society that can be controversial.

They had the chance with Shen'dralar Fel Siphoning Magi and Fel-Infused Demon Hunters, but again - they have never been truly written into the core faction under Tyrande. Yes, the Shen'dralar are now part of Kaldorei society, but I don't consider their introduction much of anything. I would much rather see the Alliance Shen'dralar reclaim their city and it being used as an Alliance fortification. Add the Dire Maul West to the core map where we see Shen'dralar and Ren'dorei trade knowledge of Arcane, Fel and Void (since they both studied it.)
Now with the addition of Night Elf Warlocks - all the more reason to relocate to Eldre'Thalas and bring some Ren'dorei Magi, Shadow Priests and Warlocks into the roster.

[Oneirophobia]

As per Rise of the Horde, the orcs on Draenor were slowly changing green simply due to the extensive practice of Fel magic going on around them (as all their original shaman had switched to being warlocks). It was normally a gradual thing, with a passage having Durotan scratch off a patch of dry skin to show emerald-hued flesh beneath. Drinking the blood of Mannoroth accelerated this change, immediately turning any previously brownish orc to green as well as granting them burning red eyes.

Felblood exposure and its subsequent mutations aren't really specific to the source of blood - it's dependent on amount and frequency. A second infusion of Mannoroth's blood also caused previously green orcs to turn red and grow spikes on their faces and bodies.

Oh neat, I didn't know there was as second drinking of Mannoroth's blood for the orcs. I know there was blood consumed at some point in WC3 when Grommash was facing the night elves but I don't recall who's that was.

We're not really sure how the gray/green variety of orcs happens, but it is likely just another stage of Fel corruption before or beyond turning green or red (it's also noteworthy that several Fel orcs in AU Hellfire Citadel are still red, such as AU Gurtrogg Bloodboil). The Fel essence that pollutes AU Hellfire Citadel also isn't the blood of Archimonde - Gul'dan simply wills it into being from atop the Throne of Kil'jaeden via a portal of some kind. It well could be the collected and spilled essence of the previously slain Mannoroth, or something altogether different.

Ah, I thought the gray/green variety was caused by this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=levTG8D4Joc

I assumed with Mannoroth being a skeleton that there was no blood and Gul'dan had instead got it from Archimonde who he seems to be directly reporting to and attempting to summon (and then does so for the final boss of HFC).

[Ameonna]

And why do you think they brought him back? Out of the kindness of their hearts? LOL ok bud.

Well, i dont really know, i dont know if it was a demande from him or they call him back actually. But what you are doing when you claim they begged thats called calumny and its kinda illegal =p

Because, surely, to claim such a thing, you have proof and other elements to support your claims right? RIGHT?!

Yes, and it's still lore.

DKs should never be playable if we're following the story, the only reason they would be and can be is by having lore altered to justify gameplay.

This would apply to playable Manari, who also have no legitimate reason to be playable on Horde. An explanation would need to be invented and given, much like how Blood Elves got their explanation despite any and all contradictions.



I think that's a fair assessment.



See? Sharing opinion. Not hard.

You didn't have to invalidate anyone with 'facts' to simply say this.

I completely respect and understand the concerns and what you are asking for. Just want to say that other people'a expressed opinions and suggestions don't really threaten your own, and in the end any concerns should be taken up with Blizzard, not the community. IMO, we should be open and free to discuss, and shouldn't need to resort to gatekeeping any idea, however unlikely or improbable they may be.

It would have been fine if this was your initial approach, instead of replying to other people to say their suggestions are somehow unwarranted by everyone else. Nothing Blizzard does will satisfy everyone equally, and nothing we say will actually affect their decisions.

I see, then i am sorry to have acted in such way before, i hope now that you get my vision better, my opinion.

Oh neat, I didn't know there was as second drinking of Mannoroth's blood for the orcs. I know there was blood consumed at some point in WC3 when Grommash was facing the night elves but I don't recall who's that was.



Ah, I thought the gray/green variety was caused by this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=levTG8D4Joc

I assumed with Mannoroth being a skeleton that there was no blood and Gul'dan had instead got it from Archimonde who he seems to be directly reporting to and attempting to summon (and then does so for the final boss of HFC).

[qwerty123456]

Well, i dont really know, i dont know if it was a demande from him or they call him back actually. But what you are doing when you claim they begged thats called calumny and its kinda illegal =p

Because, surely, to claim such a thing, you have proof and other elements to support your claims right? RIGHT?!

Do you have proof that I'm wrong? Oh wait.....


Blizzard themselves has said DF isn't doing as well as they would like, have been pumping out trials and discounts for people, and brought back Metzen in just an advisory role. The amount of cope from you is hilarious.

[Syegfryed]

I never said i was agaisnt the class/races combos, i am actually for it. I want my night elves paladins and shamans, as well as my nightborn paladins or human druids. I dont give a dam about the lore behind such cool things.

then, What are you complaining about?

Except there was a peace right from Vanilla, it is exactly what Thrall tells you when you go to blackrock deepth to save Moira (Magnis daugther) he do tell you that the Alliance and Horde are in peace. So yes there was a peace, the faction war really started in Cata under Garrosh.

you are wrong in many levels, first, there was never peace, there was cease-fire and cold wars, since day one of vanila the factions were in conflict, that is ltierally what the wow trailler tells you.

Second, you are wrong by saying that "garrosh started the war" you probably start played in cata or later, to not know that first, the alliance started the cata-mop War with Varian declaring war in undercity, and even before that, armed conflicts already happened in vanila with alliance invading the barrens and durotar, so get your facts checked

Well yes, and you must accept that this is the case because its an MMO not just a solo rpg. If it was a solo game you would not have such changes. And again, i am for the class/race combos.

Thats nonsense, in many tabletop rpgs where you do not play solo you can freely chose your class regardless of your race and that is fine, NOTHING in lore is breaking if an individual decide to follow a different path, what breaks the game is an entire race bending the knee and accepting peace because the game is dead and they need to make crossfaction

To be honest with you, i am tired of having to be afraid to be able to play with my friends everytime blizz add a new race i like, because if the race will be alliance i know i will not be able to play it with my main because all my friends are Horde...

Play another game then? that is how this game was designed, why you would be "afraid", which is a strong word just because you cannot play with your elf in the alliance?

I had forgotten the infos, i knew that mannoroth first blood drinking gave them red eyes, but did not remember if green skin was just due to fel or blood as well.

There is no such thing as giving them red eyes, that was due to fel corruption, what manoroth blood di was to speed the process and bind then to the legion, and detail, only SOME of the chieftains drink it, but all race was binded to legion anyway.

I think peoples should stop with the "i have in real life example" arguement to explain a fantasy world.

Fantasy world is born from people of the real world, they follow similar logic and logistics, you thinking its absurd or not is irrelevant, its how the game is since warcraft 1.

Yes i know this, and the roots of the tree were healing, and they would never ally with anyone even if they would be in bad situations, because they are too prideful for that, battle of mount hyjal was a feat for them already, no way they would make any long standing alliance with any other race.

oowwww, the roots are healing :x, so? that does not bring back the dead, same for every faction, war happened, genocide happens, they would never accept peace, period.

Again, you are ignoring logic and common sense, the elves lost too much in hyjal and the legion, they were on the dumpster and decided to launch an attack against the warsong, they were pushed back, the only way to turn around was to ally with the alliance, they joined exactly because they were too prideful to give up ashenvale to the horde.

Mind you, before the alliance WAS an alliance, every race/nation was more or less independent and had their own say, it was not like the horde where every race and leader had to be subservient to the warchief that is an orc, the high king bullshit only came later because the hacks can't write

And ofc, instead of using your brain and telling yourself that the fact the warsong were here made no sense and was just to make a reference to war3 but a bad one since it makes litteraly no sense for Thrall to allianted the Night Elves, you prefere to say it makes sense...even thought Thrall says there is peace and chronnicles also state so.

Why it makes no sense for the warsong to be there?? come you, lets hear what your bright brain have to say about it.

Be aware that, Durotar is a wasteland, and barrens is, well, the barrens, is not fertile, ORcs need resources from the ashenvale, and the night elves were too xenophobic to share, this is lore consistency. this makes sense.

And you also forget the point that during war3 Night Elves also killed Alliance paladins who were also cutting trees.

So? the alliance did not stay in ashenvale, and those were jaina forces

Yeah and ofcourse night elves and forsaken are braindead and cant realize that not everyone in the Horde was agreeing with Teldrassil or everyone in the Alliance was agaisnt forsaken right? Sure red is dead is surely not for people who have 2 IQ...

Youa re thinking individually, this is not how an entire nation thinks dear, you never hear about mob mentality?

The common citizen does not care, know or gives two shits about "not everyone was at fault" they only know the enemy did, and they do not stand for this, they demand justice and revenge, this is how things works, believing the entire race will just "well, not everyone there is bad right? is beyond pipe dream even in fantasy settings, hell, maybe this could pass in a my little pony show, with power of friendship, but you can see the difference in genre.

You miss my point here, i mean its NOT a SOLO rpg, and thus it have to compy with a comnity of players.

and making all classes to all races will do just that, again, whats your real point?

- - - Updated - - -

DKs should never be playable if we're following the story, the only reason they would be and can be is by having lore altered to justify gameplay.

A DK freeing himself from the Lich king, like forsaken, is not a far fetched and impossible lore bit, the precedent with undeads playable was already a thing.

This would apply to playable Manari, who also have no legitimate reason to be playable on Horde. An explanation would need to be invented and given, much like how Blood Elves got their explanation despite any and all contradictions.

Its true that everything can be edited or retconed to fill something, but it boils down to how likely, how absurd and how shit the new lore will be.

The explanation from blood elves made sense it was not far fetched. You get the bit from the Frozen throne, and you have plenty of reason of why the blood elves would despise the alliance, joining their enemies makes sense, especially when you are desperate for help and support


An explanation to make FULL DEMONS, who are not like the undead(IE, controlled by a greater evil), but are pure evil, joining the faction that suffer a lot from the exact same demons(because archimonde and kil'jaden are responsible for the orcs downfall) would be absurd and awful.

- - - Updated - - -

Ah, I thought the gray/green variety was caused by this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=levTG8D4Joc

I assumed with Mannoroth being a skeleton that there was no blood and Gul'dan had instead got it from Archimonde who he seems to be directly reporting to and attempting to summon (and then does so for the final boss of HFC).

From what i recall, they just made grey because they wanted another colour

no lore reason, they just forgot how this works

[Triceron]

A DK freeing himself from the Lich king, like forsaken, is not a far fetched and impossible lore bit, the precedent with undeads playable was already a thing.

Even after Wrath the DKs were not truly free of the Lich King.

They could not disobey Bolvar's command to raise the new 4 Horsemen.

Also the lore for the Lich King abandoning jis champions and allowing them to be free is quite bullshit. It was all intentionally written to allow them to be playable.

Its true that everything can be edited or retconed to fill something, but it boils down to how likely, how absurd and how shit the new lore will be.

The explanation from blood elves made sense it was not far fetched. You get the bit from the Frozen throne, and you have plenty of reason of why the blood elves would despise the alliance, joining their enemies makes sense, especially when you are desperate for help and support

Bullshit and suspension of disbelief is all subjective.

It makes sense, and it doesn't make sense.

Night Elves joining Alliance makes sense because they were allies by the end of WC3. Equally, it doesn't make sense because they had no great reason to ally with Alliance over Horde, nor did they need to considering they were at a height of power in the world and had held their own for millennia. Had WoW been designed any differently, they could have literally been a 3rd faction, equal to Alliance amd Horde, complete with their own ally races.

IMO, WoW lore has always bastardized WC3 lore. WC3 campaign prioritized story over gameplay, with every mission capable of raising empires or watching them fall. WoW's story is constricted and driven by gameplay; the factions can never fall and races can never permanently lose, where the WC3 campaign had the freedom to show us the entire downfall of the Kingdom of Lordaeron.

[Syegfryed]

Even after Wrath the DKs were not truly free of the Lich King.

They could not disobey Bolvar's command to raise the new 4 Horsemen.

That new lore, that fucks up old lore, not an argument in this case

Also the lore for the Lich King abandoning jis champions and allowing them to be free is quite bullshit. It was all intentionally written to allow them to be playable.

In the quest chain made sense to me, its not a tolken story, but it was ok, he was woudned had to free and the ones there got free, seems perfectly in line in what happened to the forsaken.

Bullshit and suspension of disbelief is all subjective.

Things still follow a gradient, there is levels and amount of bullshit, some things can be just a fart, a dump ro an entire diarrhea.

I

Night Elves joining Alliance makes sense because they were allies by the end of WC3. Equally, it doesn't make sense because they had no great reason to ally with Alliance over Horde, nor did they need to considering they were at a height of power in the world and had held their own for millennia. Had WoW been designed any differently, they could have literally been a 3rd faction, equal to Alliance amd Horde, complete with their own ally races.

Just because they could also have joined the horde, or not joined any factions and make a 3rd, does not make less vallid they joining te alliance.

Because after hyjal they were NOT, a super power anymore, they were weak. they lost their immortality powers from the tree, and what made then stronger than other races

IMO, WoW lore has always bastardized WC3 lore. WC3 campaign prioritized story over gameplay, with every mission capable of raising empires or watching them fall. WoW's story is constricted and driven by gameplay; the factions can never fall and races can never permanently lose, where the WC3 campaign had the freedom to show us the entire downfall of the Kingdom of Lordaeron.

Sure, but it worked ok till mop, i blame the writers more than the game being a mmo. We see multiple people suggesting better ideas na outcomes of lore

[pinkz]

The new Warlock race options are pretty wild (Lightforged Draenei feels pretty out of pocket). I think if Blizz drops them into the game with zero story or lore justification then it's going to feel pretty rubbish.

What do you think? Does Blizz need to justify the new options, or is the lore just irrelevant at this point?

blizz bends, creates, ignores, negates lore.in BFA the look at zandalari trolls had warlock culture/abilities yet we did not get to play them, yet zandalari monks made sense. think we were given a no...due to a lore excuse.

4 years later now we get to play them next patch

[Oneirophobia]

That's really interesting! So how come killing MU Mannoroth freed the orcs from the blood curse if you can just drink his blood after he's dead and it has basically the same effect? Arguably better because you get sweet spines.

[Triceron]

Because after hyjal they were NOT, a super power anymore, they were weak. they lost their immortality powers from the tree, and what made then stronger than other races

You could say that about any faction.

Horde had to start fresh. Alliance had a massive L in WC3 and had their story pick up with a growing Stormwind instead. NE losing their immortality didn't impact their world power at all, they stayed strong at the start of WoW enough to span the entire northern part of Kalimdor.

Sure, but it worked ok till mop, i blame the writers more than the game being a mmo. We see multiple people suggesting better ideas na outcomes of lore

It gets progressively worse because they're building a house of cards and their priorities are gameplay and sales figures. The story just isn't gonna be strong like that.

It's not like some other MMOs who have built their reputation on story first and have built entire communities around accepting gameplay flaws or lacking endgame content for the sake of a story-immerse world.

[Ameonna]

Do you have proof that I'm wrong? Oh wait.....


Blizzard themselves has said DF isn't doing as well as they would like, have been pumping out trials and discounts for people, and brought back Metzen in just an advisory role. The amount of cope from you is hilarious.

I am not supposed to prouve you wrong, its you who are supposed to prouve you are right...and you can argue what you want, what you say stays claims and no sources. Again, you say "they begged", you know what "begged" means exactly? =p If only you just said "they asked him to come back" or "they brought him back" as you said now, but no you had to be not smart and say "begged" to make it sound more "good" for you.

then, What are you complaining about?

I complains about the customizations over allied races. If you actually read my messages you would know >< i dont actually care about warlocks given to races, i am just saying i am worrying that this might mess up potential allied races.

you are wrong in many levels, first, there was never peace, there was cease-fire and cold wars, since day one of vanila the factions were in conflict, that is ltierally what the wow trailler tells you.

Second, you are wrong by saying that "garrosh started the war" you probably start played in cata or later, to not know that first, the alliance started the cata-mop War with Varian declaring war in undercity, and even before that, armed conflicts already happened in vanila with alliance invading the barrens and durotar, so get your facts checked

Just read what Thralls says in the "The Eastern Kingdoms" quest and you will see he never say anything about a cess-fire he clearly says "There is some skirmishes there and there but we are at peace with the Alliance."

No i did not start play at Cata i play since 2004...i love how you try to deminish my points just by pretending i play since less than you do...i want to go with a "ok boomer" but since i am one too it would be insulting myself too.

Thats nonsense, in many tabletop rpgs where you do not play solo you can freely chose your class regardless of your race and that is fine, NOTHING in lore is breaking if an individual decide to follow a different path, what breaks the game is an entire race bending the knee and accepting peace because the game is dead and they need to make crossfaction

Does tabletops you talking about are online games that work with subscriptions and their main goal is to make the most money possible? Nope...you really have issues with understanding how the world work even if you claim you do know...

Play another game then? that is how this game was designed, why you would be "afraid", which is a strong word just because you cannot play with your elf in the alliance?

My friends dont play another game...

There is no such thing as giving them red eyes, that was due to fel corruption, what manoroth blood di was to speed the process and bind then to the legion, and detail, only SOME of the chieftains drink it, but all race was binded to legion anyway.

Read lore about it and come back to me because you are wrong here. And i am not wanting to care searching.

Fantasy world is born from people of the real world, they follow similar logic and logistics, you thinking its absurd or not is irrelevant, its how the game is since warcraft 1.

No, it is based on the culture of the writters, if they lack culture they will do things that can be easily debunked using real history, since there is all the examples in there.

oowwww, the roots are healing :x, so? that does not bring back the dead, same for every faction, war happened, genocide happens, they would never accept peace, period.

There is no genocid for night elves in war3 what you talking about...

Again, you are ignoring logic and common sense, the elves lost too much in hyjal and the legion, they were on the dumpster and decided to launch an attack against the warsong, they were pushed back, the only way to turn around was to ally with the alliance, they joined exactly because they were too prideful to give up ashenvale to the horde.

Mind you, before the alliance WAS an alliance, every race/nation was more or less independent and had their own say, it was not like the horde where every race and leader had to be subservient to the warchief that is an orc, the high king bullshit only came later because the hacks can't write

They had the "we stand alone" mindset for 10k y now i will give you some logic and common esnse : you dont change a mindset in 4y...

Why it makes no sense for the warsong to be there?? come you, lets hear what your bright brain have to say about it.

Be aware that, Durotar is a wasteland, and barrens is, well, the barrens, is not fertile, ORcs need resources from the ashenvale, and the night elves were too xenophobic to share, this is lore consistency. this makes sense.

Echo islands? Azshara? I see pretty good amount of trees here...(its even used in cata!!!) and the warsong being here makes no sense, at least it makes no sense than Thrall made no diplomatic greement with them when you see how he tried so hard to make with the humans.

So? the alliance did not stay in ashenvale, and those were jaina forces

Lets keep your arguement for later will you? Because i saw something pretty dumb you said below...

Youa re thinking individually, this is not how an entire nation thinks dear, you never hear about mob mentality?

The common citizen does not care, know or gives two shits about "not everyone was at fault" they only know the enemy did, and they do not stand for this, they demand justice and revenge, this is how things works, believing the entire race will just "well, not everyone there is bad right? is beyond pipe dream even in fantasy settings, hell, maybe this could pass in a my little pony show, with power of friendship, but you can see the difference in genre.

Yup, i clearly can see that in the ongoin war irl that all of the people in the attacked country think all the people of the invading country are bad, ho wait no...they dont, they mostly focus on saying the leader is bad!

[QUOTE=Syegfryed;54119552]and making all classes to all races will do just that, again, whats your real point?

My point is for you to let go =p

A DK freeing himself from the Lich king, like forsaken, is not a far fetched and impossible lore bit, the precedent with undeads playable was already a thing.

No it dont make sense, the way they broke free from the Lich King dont make any sense mate, get over it, and i will prouve it to you :

In war3 what made the forsaken able to break free? Different things, 1 - The Lich King was Ner'zhul and thus was not as powerful as Arthas 2 - He was weakened which made him even weaker by the spell of Illidan when he used eye of Sargeras 3 - they were far away from him, because despit all of these setbacks Ner'zhul still kept total control over the undeads in Northrend like Annub'arak and others.

Now in wrath? You have full power Lich King, being at 2 meters of the death knight and....they break free with...the power of love or some bs?

Also another point, as soon as the forsaken would have reached Northrend in wrath, they should have instantly be dominated by LK again. Because its the pwoer of the Lich King! You know!!!!??? To control undeads with his psychic powers?!!!

Its true that everything can be edited or retconed to fill something, but it boils down to how likely, how absurd and how shit the new lore will be.

The draenai retcon was good.

The explanation from blood elves made sense it was not far fetched. You get the bit from the Frozen throne, and you have plenty of reason of why the blood elves would despise the alliance, joining their enemies makes sense, especially when you are desperate for help and support

Here is the dumb statement i was mentioning above, here, when i saw that you thought Blood elves was logicial in your sense, i totally thought i would not waste my time answering you, but i am an idiot so i do anyway!!! So now, you are telling me that, the Alliance of Stormwind, which have nothing to do with the actual human who did nearly kill the blood elf must get the grudge? If i follow your logic, the "it was jaina humans" that you mentioned before can also work with then ight elves heee?!!!

Also another point is, Elves HATES trolls, no matter what kind of trolls they are, they hate them no way they team up with them. Now what else you have in the Horde? Ho yes UNDEAD the Forsaken, but hee since they dont make the difference between Garithos humans and Stormwind humand how would they make the difference between forsaken and scourge? lmao how i break your logic!!! And i will add also the fact you have the orcs who attacked Silvermoon during the second war and burned it to the ground wiht red dragons.

But yeah other than this "its logical blood elves go to the Horde" loooooooool you are a jester!

Lets do something funny to make you understand lets see if you get the drift! : "The explanation from night elves made sense it was not far fetched. You get the bit from the Frozen throne, and you have plenty of reason of why the night elves would despise the alliance, joining the Horde makes sense, especially when you are desperate for help and support"

An explanation to make FULL DEMONS, who are not like the undead(IE, controlled by a greater evil), but are pure evil, joining the faction that suffer a lot from the exact same demons(because archimonde and kil'jaden are responsible for the orcs downfall) would be absurd and awful.

Here you lack knowlodge on the eredar and what made them turn into demons, some did it for power like Archimonde, but some like Kil'jaeden did it out of fear, now other were forced into taking the fel and carried chaos orbs that made them controlled by the Legion. Also in the novel Illidan you have statement that the demons use runes to force into submission the ones that did not want to fight for them even after being turned into demons.

Not to mention that when Sargeras came to the eredars he also told them that they should unit to fight the Void because Argus have a titan soul and thus is a potential target of the Void. And a lot did join also to fight the Void.

So yeah, you need to learn your lore. And yet again, Kil'jaeden and Archimonde DID SELL THEIR PEOPLE to Sargeras, just like Gul'dan did with the Orcs, the scenario of the eredar is very much similar to the one of the orcs, specially when you notice that SOME orcs did willingly drink the Blood and wanted to kill and all like Grommash and Kargath and their clans who were mostly brutes and warmongers! It is exactly the same as Archimonde who wanted power!

But just because you have no knowlodge of their lore and think its "not logical" then you htink its bad...

[ONCHEhap]

Lets be honest here shall we, the cosmology chart was NEVER when it was wrote in chronnicles v1 nor was the chronnicles 1 2 3 books weote to be "pov of titans bs" this came up much later when Danuser took over the writting team.

Yeah, he needed to handwave the bad lore away to make room for worse lore

[Ameonna]

You could say that about any faction.

Horde had to start fresh. Alliance had a massive L in WC3 and had their story pick up with a growing Stormwind instead. NE losing their immortality didn't impact their world power at all, they stayed strong at the start of WoW enough to span the entire northern part of Kalimdor.

Totally agree with you in that one. For instance, in the Night elf intro or lore descirption from vanilla there is not a single mention of you being part of the Alliance, because its not important.

It gets progressively worse because they're building a house of cards and their priorities are gameplay and sales figures. The story just isn't gonna be strong like that.

And they did this because it worked!!! Look how many people says that tbc is aweosme just because Illidan fly up in air and yell "You not prepared!!!!" or say wolk is great because "Arthaaaaaass" they say "Story is aweosme" but when you ask then what they like about the story they will say "Illidan syaing you not prepared" or "Arthas doing his pose!!!"

But thats not story...thats marketing.

[qwerty123456]

I am not supposed to prouve you wrong, its you who are supposed to prouve you are right...and you can argue what you want, what you say stays claims and no sources. Again, you say "they begged", you know what "begged" means exactly? =p If only you just said "they asked him to come back" or "they brought him back" as you said now, but no you had to be not smart and say "begged" to make it sound more "good" for you.

So do you think they hired him cause they felt sorry for him? Why hire a lore consultant if you don't need one? You are more delusional then Teriz or Kenn.

[Ameonna]

So do you think they hired him cause they felt sorry for him? Why hire a lore consultant if you don't need one? You are more delusional then Teriz or Kenn.

Sorry for what? Do you actually knows why Metzen left Blizzard in the first place? He made a whole radio interview about that you know!!! He left because he was tired of the comunity constantly telling that the lore was bad since wolk even thought he worked more on cata/mop and draenor he was tired of seeing that no matter how much passion he pout in the expansions people still said MoP was bad and had nothing to do with warcraft universe!!!

Metzen is very much like Georgre Lucas at some points, because just like him, he created a universe which was deeply inspired by other stories and myth and when he tried to get more in depth, more invested he was then hated by the comunity, just like the star wars fans hated on the new trilogy of episodes 1,2,3 people hated on Cataclysm, on MoP and on WoD which were the 3 expansions Metzen worked the most on and to which he pout his heart

You even clearly see how Metzen and also Samwise (who is btw the guy who created the pandarens and all the blademaster inspirations) were after MoP when they made WoD they wanted to say to players "Look its back to real warcraft with everything savage!!!" but it was a failure too.

Metzen burned out after WoD and got back injuries and other problemes which made him leave....its players like you who should feel sorry about this.

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There is no such thing as giving them red eyes, that was due to fel corruption, what manoroth blood di was to speed the process and bind then to the legion, and detail, only SOME of the chieftains drink it, but all race was binded to legion anyway.

Source here : https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Blood-curse#Effects

(Yup i could not prevent myself to give you a more proper reply.

[Syegfryed]

You could say that about any faction.

Horde had to start fresh. Alliance had a massive L in WC3 and had their story pick up with a growing Stormwind instead. NE losing their immortality didn't impact their world power at all, they stayed strong at the start of WoW enough to span the entire northern part of Kalimdor.

Not rly

You see, Horde had massive numbers of orcs who after they set in orgrimar joined it, this is briefly explained in the founding of durotar. And, only Lordaeron got stomped, Stormwind was just fine.

It gets progressively worse because they're building a house of cards and their priorities are gameplay and sales figures. The story just isn't gonna be strong like that.

Again, i disagree, its more about the writers ability, they are ruining the lore, there is tons of shit that could be fixed with small stuff, like by example, making the alliance attack first in BFA, when it makes totally sense for then doing so.

Like i said, ti worked fine before, why suddenly it stop worked? its not because the genre, its because the people working on it

That's really interesting! So how come killing MU Mannoroth freed the orcs from the blood curse if you can just drink his blood after he's dead and it has basically the same effect? Arguably better because you get sweet spines.

Because the people doing WoD forgot about it, same way they forgot the orcs did not become gray but green/red;

[Shadowferal]

It gets progressively worse because they're building a house of cards and their priorities are gameplay and sales figures. The story just isn't gonna be strong like that.

Again, i disagree, its more about the writers ability, they are ruining the lore..

How is this a disagreement?

[Syegfryed]

I complains about the customizations over allied races. If you actually read my messages you would know >< i dont actually care about warlocks given to races, i am just saying i am worrying that this might mess up potential allied races.

Why do i need to read your previous messages when you quoted me? i only read what you quoted me for.

And no it will not mess up potential allied races, that is a non-argument, no race is tied exclusively by the class they can be.

Just read what Thralls says in the "The Eastern Kingdoms" quest and you will see he never say anything about a cess-fire he clearly says "There is some skirmishes there and there but we are at peace with the Alliance."

If they have skirmishess there is no peace, it cannot coexist, simple as that, it is cease fire, Thrall is just delusional.

No i did not start play at Cata i play since 2004...i love how you try to deminish my points just by pretending i play since less than you do...i want to go with a "ok boomer" but since i am one too it would be insulting myself too.

I also start playing in cata(technically last patch of wtlk, but didn't care about the game that time), but its about KNOWING what happened, i know because i read it, if you play since 2004 how can you not know that there was conflict since vanila, and the war in cata WAS NOT because Garrosh? it was literally Varian who started it.

Does tabletops you talking about are online games that work with subscriptions and their main goal is to make the most money possible? Nope...you really have issues with understanding how the world work even if you claim you do know...

And you know what will make money? all classes to all races, lmao

youa re contradicting yourself.

My friends dont play another game...

Too bad

Read lore about it and come back to me because you are wrong here. And i am not wanting to care searching.

Dude, i clearly know more about lore than you do when its about orcs, you do not get to lecture me.

The red eyes is due to demonic corruption, because even rocs who did not drink the blood became green, bigger and had red eyes

No, it is based on the culture of the writters, if they lack culture they will do things that can be easily debunked using real history, since there is all the examples in there.

So you are teling me they are bad writters

yeah i know that

There is no genocid for night elves in war3 what you talking about...

??? im talking about the recent one??? lmao

They had the "we stand alone" mindset for 10k y now i will give you some logic and common esnse : you dont change a mindset in 4y...

oooooooh, so you are telling me people don't change their mindset so easily....

but you are DEFENDING THEY CHANGING THEIR MINDSET TO ACCEPT PEACE in less than 2 years

Its hard to believe a race who almost got destroyed by the legion, to unite with the alliance, as in an alliance of equals, is less likely to happen than a race to join hands with the faction who genocide them for no reason at all.... ok

Echo islands? Azshara? I see pretty good amount of trees here...(its even used in cata!!!) and the warsong being here makes no sense, at least it makes no sense than Thrall made no diplomatic greement with them when you see how he tried so hard to make with the humans.

You think an island is enough to provide wood and FOOD for everyone in orgrimmar? how smalll you think this world is?

There is logistics, distance and resource management, its easier and safer to get stuff from ashenvale because they already have a base there and its quickly access with a easier route, azshara until cata was swarmed by the legion and wild elementals.

The warsong were already set in war3, they would not leave just because.

Lets keep your arguement for later will you? Because i saw something pretty dumb you said below...

Yup, i clearly can see that in the ongoin war irl that all of the people in the attacked country think all the people of the invading country are bad, ho wait no...they dont, they mostly focus on saying the leader is bad

ITs such a naive way of thinking, lmao

My point is for you to let go =p
[/QUOTE]

you are the one quoting me

No it dont make sense, the way they broke free from the Lich King dont make any sense mate, get over it, and i will prouve it to you :

We literally saw multiple undeads breaking free from the lich king, we already had precedence of this happening, you are making no sense and you did not prove a thing.

In war3 what made the forsaken able to break free? Different things, 1 - The Lich King was Ner'zhul and thus was not as powerful as Arthas 2 - He was weakened which made him even weaker by the spell of Illidan when he used eye of Sargeras 3 - they were far away from him, because despit all of these setbacks Ner'zhul still kept total control over the undeads in Northrend like Annub'arak and others.

Now in wrath? You have full power Lich King, being at 2 meters of the death knight and....they break free with...the power of love or some bs?

mate how can you paly since 2004 and not know the questchain from the deathknights? it literally shows the Lich king weaker and thats how the death knights were able to break free, read before trying to lecture others.

Here is the dumb statement i was mentioning above, here, when i saw that you thought Blood elves was logicial in your sense, i totally thought i would not waste my time answering you, but i am an idiot so i do anyway!!! So now, you are telling me that, the Alliance of Stormwind, which have nothing to do with the actual human who did nearly kill the blood elf must get the grudge? If i follow your logic, the "it was jaina humans" that you mentioned before can also work with then ight elves heee?!!!

Its quite tire when you are claiming others statements are dumb when you lack knoledge of the lore itself.

You completely forgot that, at that time, stormwind did support the alliance of lordaeron, you forget that stormwind did not say anything about kalethas and their kind being imprisoned and sentenced to death, you forget that after what garithos did stormwind gave two shits about the blood elves later, and instead, send spies on then and saboteurs to destroy their reserve of mana.

Also another point is, Elves HATES trolls, no matter what kind of trolls they are, they hate them no way they team up with them.

the elves hate the AMANI, they did not care about the jungle trolls, and the humans did more harm to then than the jungle trolls.

Again, this is an alliance of interest, they didn't join the horde because they liked, because NEEDED or they would be dead.

Now what else you have in the Horde? Ho yes UNDEAD the Forsaken,

Literaly leaded by their ranger general, something behind only their own king, who died protecting then, and came back from the death to save then again

and you think they would follow the humans

But yeah other than this "its logical blood elves go to the Horde" loooooooool you are a jester!

I mean, it is, if you have at least 2 brain cells.

Here you lack knowlodge on the eredar and what made them turn into demons, some did it for power like Archimonde, but some like Kil'jaeden did it out of fear, now other were forced into taking the fel and carried chaos orbs that made them controlled by the Legion. Also in the novel Illidan you have statement that the demons use runes to force into submission the ones that did not want to fight for them even after being turned into demons.

All mana'ri are evil, period, they are demons. It does not matter if they were turned against their will, once you are bound into the twisting nether you are an evil demons

Not to mention that when Sargeras came to the eredars he also told them that they should unit to fight the Void because Argus have a titan soul and thus is a potential target of the Void. And a lot did join also to fight the Void.

...you want to say the demons are the heroes now? haha

So yeah, you need to learn your lore.

But just because you have no knowlodge of their lore and think its "not logical" then you htink its bad...

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How is this a disagreement?

He imply that the faction war is the house of cards that they are building with the prioprities

i don't think the lore is bad because they have other priorities, i think the lore is bad because the writers are awful.

[Elanore Maroth]

A lore explanation would be nice for how these races get acces to the class. Eredar customizations would be really nice.

[Syegfryed]

Source here : https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Blood-curse#Effects

(Yup i could not prevent myself to give you a more proper reply.

I love how there is literally <citation needed> on it and you did not realize it.

If you actually read that, you know, o give a proper reply, you would know those effects - green skin, glowing red eyes and etc - are show even on orcs who did not drank the blood:

This affected even the orcs who did not partake in the drinking of the blood

Furthemore, pit lord blood is literally fel goo

Fel works like radiation, permeating an area and seeping into anything in the vicinity. Anything near a source of fel energy will eventually show signs of slight corruption. It smells like sulfur and brimstone. Fel can also pool into a green goop when it's in physical form. Pit lord blood is literal fel goo.

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Fel

Just like i said, the glowing red eyes and green skin is due to fel corruption, not in specific because of manoroth blood, the pit lord blood speed up the process of corruption AND bind then to the Legion/to the pit lord, making even orcs who DID NOT drank the blood to have the same green skin and red glowing eyes.