Another "I can't breath" death: Police Reform & Protests in the USA

[Edge-]

https://thehill.com/policy/energy-en...nd-organizers/

Cops in GA are going hard on protesters. Saw some video of what was apparently them arresting at least one of the organizers, rolling up with full tactical gear like it was a swat raid and shit.

This is just pure fascism by GA cops, period. Eventually people are going to respond with equal force and shit's gonna go down, and I can't even blame folks that have been harassed and abused by these cops.

- - - Updated - - -

https://theintercept.com/2023/06/05/...city-andy-ngo/

A DEPARTMENT OF Homeland Security agency’s intelligence report about the Atlanta protest movement “Stop Cop City” lifted a sentence nearly verbatim from an article published on a far-right news website published a day earlier.

The December 16, 2022, report from the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency’s Office for Bombing Prevention describes protesters opposed to razing a forest for a massive new police facility as “militants” comprising a “violent far-left occupation” — phrasings identical to an article written by right-wing provocateur Andy Ngo.

“Five militants, part of the violent far-left occupation, were arrested and charged with domestic terrorism and other felony charges,” said the CISA report, referring to protests against the construction of the police facility, dubbed “Cop City” by its opponents.

A day earlier, the Post Millennial, a conservative news outlet founded by Ngo that has faced criticism for its partisan bent and misleading stories on subjects like Covid-19, ran a story with the same sentence, with small cosmetic changes. “Five militants part of a violent far-left occupation in south Atlanta were arrested on Tuesday and charged with domestic terrorism and other felony charges,” Ngo’s original reads. (Neither CISA nor Ngo immediately responded to a request for comment.)

The DHS report came a month before one protester encamped at the proposed Cop City site was killed in a hail of police gunfire — a massive escalation in what has become an ongoing crackdown against the movement.

Eyo not surprising that the right wing extremist dude that hangs out with white supremacists and helps instigate fights while leading them to "leftists" for them to attack, and who goes around claiming that he was the victim of a chemical attack because he got hit with a vegan "milk"shake, is apparently very much on the radar for law enforcement.

No, not as any kind of suspect. But as a source of true and accurate information, apparently.

[Bakis]

A long standing qustion popped up in my head once again, given the attack in France today.

Children in critical condition after France knife attack

Police have said the man who carried out the attack was shot in the legs, overpowered, and arrested.

Same procedure police use here in Sweden and many other countries. Aim for extremities unless the situation calls for center mass and never spray bullets in quick succession.
Always wondered how come shooting suspects in the US, protocol more often than not advocate for center mass and multiple rounds, period.
Overzealous use of violence protocols, police unions, less costly compensation suits (overall), anyone know why center mass and multiple rounds is touted so sternly?
And I'm asking under the asuption that the police in X case had no non-lethal equipment avalaible at the time and that the suspect posed no imminent danger to the officer or others (which is kinda moot to judge anyways since the law always heavily favour the officer).

Edit: he posed a threat while being shot, unclear why they chose legs. Possibly cos he was attacking an elderly man and the bullets would have increased the odds of passing through/hitting him if center mass. Regardless, the center mass vs extremeties/center mass schools.
Enlighten me someone

[Zinstorm]

A long standing qustion popped up in my head once again, given the attack in France today.

Children in critical condition after France knife attack


Same procedure police use here in Sweden and many other countries. Aim for extremities unless the situation calls for center mass and never spray bullets in quick succession.
Always wondered how come shooting suspects in the US, protocol more often than not advocate for center mass and multiple rounds, period.
Overzealous use of violence protocols, police unions, less costly compensation suits (overall), anyone know why center mass and multiple rounds is touted so sternly?
And I'm asking under the asuption that the police in X case had no non-lethal equipment avalaible at the time and that the suspect posed no imminent danger to the officer or others (which is kinda moot to judge anyways since the law always heavily favour the officer).

Edit: he posed a threat while being shot, unclear why they chose legs. Possibly cos he was attacking an elderly man and the bullets would have increased the odds of passing through/hitting him if center mass. Regardless, the center mass vs extremeties/center mass schools.
Enlighten me someone

I'm no expert.... but From what I know I'm pretty sure the reason "aim for extremities" isn't the go to is due to real life not being a movie: extremities are extremely hard to hit and the purpose of using lethal force on a target (if the situation calls for it) is to put the target down to prevent them from being a further threat. Aiming for center mass is what will do that... aiming for extremities will often not... and that's assuming you hit them which again is harder for extremities then it is for center mass.

[The Stormbringer]

I'm no expert.... but From what I know I'm pretty sure the reason "aim for extremities" isn't the go to is due to real life not being a movie: extremities are extremely hard to hit and the purpose of using lethal force on a target (if the situation calls for it) is to put the target down to prevent them from being a further threat. Aiming for center mass is what will do that... aiming for extremities will often not... and that's assuming you hit them which again is harder for extremities then it is for center mass.

Yeah, exactly. Guns are not meant to be non-lethal weapons, unless they're loaded with rubber bullets (and even those can do serious damage and potentially kill depending on how close you are and where they hit).

[Kathandira]

Yeah, exactly. Guns are not meant to be non-lethal weapons, unless they're loaded with rubber bullets (and even those can do serious damage and potentially kill depending on how close you are and where they hit).

Guess we need to disarm the police then. They are not executioners. They should not be given execution tools.

[The Stormbringer]

Guess we need to disarm the police then. They are not executioners. They should not be given execution tools.

Sounds good to me!

[DarkTZeratul]

I'm no expert.... but From what I know I'm pretty sure the reason "aim for extremities" isn't the go to is due to real life not being a movie: extremities are extremely hard to hit and the purpose of using lethal force on a target (if the situation calls for it) is to put the target down to prevent them from being a further threat. Aiming for center mass is what will do that... aiming for extremities will often not... and that's assuming you hit them which again is harder for extremities then it is for center mass.

Not to mention that shooting someone in the leg is not inherently "non-lethal." Hit the femoral artery and they'll bleed out very quickly.

[draynay]

If the person has a knife and you shoot them in the leg it makes it much harder for them to walk up and stab you. In the US the police operate as if everyone has a gun and shoot to kill anybody holding a phone or reaching for their ID as instructed.

[DarkTZeratul]

If the person has a knife and you shoot them in the leg it makes it much harder for them to walk up and stab you.

Again, a gun is not a non-lethal weapon. "Shooting to wound" is a Hollywood myth with no basis in reality. One of the first lessons in any gun safety course is that you should never point your gun at anything you do not intend to kill.

In the US the police operate as if everyone has a gun and shoot to kill anybody holding a phone or reaching for their ID as instructed.

This is the real problem. It's not that they should be shooting people in the legs, it's that in the vast majority of situations they shouldn't be shooting anybody at all.

[Bakis]

I'm no expert.... but From what I know I'm pretty sure the reason "aim for extremities" isn't the go to is due to real life not being a movie: extremities are extremely hard to hit and the purpose of using lethal force on a target (if the situation calls for it) is to put the target down to prevent them from being a further threat. Aiming for center mass is what will do that... aiming for extremities will often not... and that's assuming you hit them which again is harder for extremities then it is for center mass.

Not really, happens frequently here. Then again to become a police officer its 3-4 years of education.

- - - Updated - - -

If the person has a knife and you shoot them in the leg it makes it much harder for them to walk up and stab you. In the US the police operate as if everyone has a gun and shoot to kill anybody holding a phone or reaching for their ID as instructed.

Yea but I meant specifically when its clear there is no firearm in play.

[Twdft]

Maybe police should get non lethal equipment

[s_bushido]

Maybe police should get non lethal equipment

As he mentions at the end, that's not really going to do shit against someone with a firearm. But yeah...for everyone else, there should be a way to restrain/detain someone without shooting them or choking the life out of them.

[Edge-]

https://www.fox4news.com/news/multip...-go-unanswered

A family building a home in Dallas says they feared for their lives as a man with a gun knocked on their front door while two others stole equipment at the building site.

They say they made multiple calls to 911. It was nearly nine hours from the first call to when an officer arrived.

Dallas police say by the time officers were free to get to their call for help, the information they received in follow-up calls changed the urgent response.

The Benjamins are building a new house on an Oak Cliff street about a mile from the south central police substation and had been staying in a trailer while building their new home.

Reminder:https://www.keranews.org/news/2022-0...perty-tax-rate

The Dallas Police Department's budget is $612 million — that’s an increase of more than $40 million. The added funding includes 250 more officers and financial incentives to keep officers who are about to retire for another year.

Half a billion dollars for the department and it takes a full working day to have an officer respond to a 911 call of an apparent armed robbery. I do wonder what the fuck all the money goes towards.

[draynay]

As he mentions at the end, that's not really going to do shit against someone with a firearm. But yeah...for everyone else, there should be a way to restrain/detain someone without shooting them or choking the life out of them.

They just forget to use them when they have them anyway.

[gondrin]

A long standing qustion popped up in my head once again, given the attack in France today.

Children in critical condition after France knife attack


Same procedure police use here in Sweden and many other countries. Aim for extremities unless the situation calls for center mass and never spray bullets in quick succession.
Always wondered how come shooting suspects in the US, protocol more often than not advocate for center mass and multiple rounds, period.
Overzealous use of violence protocols, police unions, less costly compensation suits (overall), anyone know why center mass and multiple rounds is touted so sternly?
And I'm asking under the asuption that the police in X case had no non-lethal equipment avalaible at the time and that the suspect posed no imminent danger to the officer or others (which is kinda moot to judge anyways since the law always heavily favour the officer).

Edit: he posed a threat while being shot, unclear why they chose legs. Possibly cos he was attacking an elderly man and the bullets would have increased the odds of passing through/hitting him if center mass. Regardless, the center mass vs extremeties/center mass schools.
Enlighten me someone

Biggest reason why you general aim for center mass, unless you are high trained in very specific situations, is that it is EXTREMELY hard to hit extremities. Legs, while easier to hit then arms, are still hard to hit unless someone is stationary. Also, bullets do not completely travel in straight lines. There is a very small variance when they come out of the end of the gun. If you are shooting from a decent distance away, trying to hit an arm, even aiming straight at it, could end up missing.

It is almost always better to aim for center mass so you don't have a stray bullet that could hit someone else other than the target.

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah, exactly. Guns are not meant to be non-lethal weapons, unless they're loaded with rubber bullets (and even those can do serious damage and potentially kill depending on how close you are and where they hit).

Even blanks, if fired at a close range, can do some serious harm.

[Captain N]

Half a billion dollars for the department and it takes a full working day to have an officer respond to a 911 call of an apparent armed robbery. I do wonder what the fuck all the money goes towards.

Military vehicles. Likely a tank or water cannon used to disperse "rioters" or in the case of Texas the millions of immigrants flooding the borders.

[Deus Mortis]

Need to see more stuff like this. Clear out the bad ones.

Shaouni is charged with resisting an officer, reckless driving and fleeing and eluding a law enforcement officer. He turned himself in Friday to the Seminole County Jail and was released on $9,000 bond. Orlando police said Shaouni has been relieved of his duties pending the Seminole County Sheriff’s Office criminal investigation as well as Orlando police’s internal affairs investigation.

[Edge-]

It's telling that they continue to feel like they can just get away with this shit, especially knowing that body cameras are a thing.

Glad the recording officer called it in and followed it up. Expecting law enforcement to not to 80 in a 45 zone because they're late to work shouldn't be asking too much.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Need to see more stuff like this. Clear out the bad ones.

Here's the real question: if the guy wasn't a cop...would the deputy have just let him go?

[Deus Mortis]

Here's the real question: if the guy wasn't a cop...would the deputy have just let him go?

Depends on the departments rules for engaging in long chases, I know more and more departments are not engaging in dangerous chases, especially if they know who the person running is. As the Sherriff got the officers plates, as well as his name from his vest, he would know exactly where to find him. This is how these scenarios should be handled the vast majority of time. The risk to life in a big chase for just speeding is not worth it. There are scenarios like murder/kidnapping and crimes of this caliber which should be the exception.