Dragonflight 10.X Patches & World Soul Saga Speculation Thread

[Dracullus]

That's not My problem.

I'm simply saying it would be interesting to also get the version of that graph without Classic.

I don't need to explain anything to you.

"They should do that <virtually impossible thing>"

"How can they do that"

"NOT MY PROBLEM I DON"T NEED TO EXPLAIN ANYTHING TO YOU"

Yeah, thx for your contribution to the thread xD.

That said, the graph doesn't contain enough data for any sort of in-depth analysis, and mostly shows what Blizzard wanted it to show. Its primary aim is clearly to reassure whomever the target audience was (not forum grognards for sure) that things are going well.

Of course we are not target, but over years community perception about subs really drifted away from reality.

I get why Blizzard doesn't show subs every quarter (look at Legion numbers, people would call it failure if we would witness sub loss very similar to WoD), but imo every few years there should be detailed report that show all ups and downs.

[Varodoc]

"They should do that <virtually impossible thing>"

"How can they do that"

"NOT MY PROBLEM I DON"T NEED TO EXPLAIN ANYTHING TO YOU"

Yeah, thx for your contribution to the thread xD.

How is you harassing and attacking Me out of nowhere for sharing My opinion "contributing"?

[Relapses]

Welp, I can confidently say that that BfA was my fav expansion since Legion, up until DF arrived. Best zones, best classic fantasy feel, best dungeons and raids. I got over the story years ago and borrowed powers and it's grind faded away from my memories.

I didn't hate BfA either. Corruption was fucking sick. But its third season of M+ can fuck right off the tallest building on earth.

[Skildar]

Shadowlands will for sure remain a big thorn as they're are now trying to pull a World Soul Saga when the Jailer was already attempting to drain the World Soul of Azeroth...

[Dracullus]

How is you harassing and attacking Me out of nowhere for sharing My opinion "contributing"?

You know this is discussion forum, right? Everything you, me or whoever write can be criticized or challenged.

[Cheezits]

Shadowlands will for sure remain a big thorn as they're are now trying to pull a World Soul Saga when the Jailer was already attempting to drain the World Soul of Azeroth...

If anything they will tie that in neatly to whatever the Titans are going to do with Ulduar in The Last Titan. They may use that "pipeline" the Jailer made to further morph Azeroth's soul, or we will be tasked with going underneath ICC and plugging up the hole. Also the very few hints about the Lifelands in Dragonflight show they aren't completely abandoning some of the bigger lore hooks in Shadowlands.

Also they WILL address the similarities between the First Ones and the Titans, even if it's not a big focus.

[justwatching]

Lmaooo Shadowlands' final sub count was higher than BFA's. That's crazy.

Well Wrath classic launching at the very end of SL certainly helped.

[Nymrohd]

Keep in mind Shadowlands also kind of profited from the pandemic.

[Dracullus]

Keep in mind Shadowlands also kind of profited from the pandemic.

Of course, there are many variables for each launch. Same as scandal around Blizzard in mid 2021 for sure hurt numbers, yet had nothing to do with SL.

I think problem here is people adding their personal feeling about each expansion to discussion about numbers, while it's even perfectly plausible to shit patch being more popular than good one.

[Nymrohd]

Of course, there are many variables for each launch. Same as scandal around Blizzard in mid 2021 for sure hurt numbers, yet had nothing to do with SL.

I think problem here is people adding their personal feeling about each expansion to discussion about numbers, while it's even perfectly plausible to shit patch being more popular than good one.

Yup, pretty much. Like, the boost from Classic would baseline elevate all subs from that point on by some amount; so the fact that BfA's lowest which is before Classic is lower than SL's doesn't mean much. Or that that DF did NOT have China subs and TWW will. There is just so many effects and especially the addition of Classic complicates everything. But what is important is that the subs never seem to dip much below WoD's lowest point at 5 mil and DF is probably much higher than that.

I'd say the one thing the graph does is dispel any doom and gloom. The game remains extremely active so Blizzard is likely planning a third decade for it. Anyone who starts with WoW is dying can just look at the numbers.

[Sondrelk]

Welp, I can confidently say that that BfA was my fav expansion since Legion, up until DF arrived. Best zones, best classic fantasy feel, best dungeons and raids. I got over the story years ago and borrowed powers and it's grind faded away from my memories.

All those reasons are probably why I hate it so much actually. Because it had all those good parts, and still managed to squander it so badly on a terrible plot.
I love me a good steak and fries with a creme brulee for dessert. I wouldnt like it if someone served me experimental beef cubes in vanilla custard.

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Is that graph confirmed legitimate? Because it seems wildly unprofessional given the lack of actual numbers to compare the graph to. It seems like a reasonable expression of the reality of subscription numbers, but I don't want to just blindly trust something so easily faked.

[Woggmer]

All those reasons are probably why I hate it so much actually. Because it had all those good parts, and still managed to squander it so badly on a terrible plot.
I love me a good steak and fries with a creme brulee for dessert. I wouldnt like it if someone served me experimental beef cubes in vanilla custard.

Not just terrible plot, but gameplay as well... Keep in mind that Legion's biggest selling point was the fact that you could make a Demon Hunter which was something that a lot of people (mostly blood elf players) have hoped for ever since they saw them back in TBC and heard rumors of them being a potential playable class.

Then BFA comes around and nerfs Demon Hunters so badly that they became unplayable for the longest time, even worse the Shadow Priest's mess when they lost their Artifact Weapons. All the hardwork people put into Legion was diminished the moment you lost your artifact weapon and a lot of the bells and whistles that made the classes strong, and some specs still haven't recovered from it and need to go through extensive reworks just to be "playable" let alone be optimal.

[Nymrohd]

Not just terrible plot, but gameplay as well... Keep in mind that Legion's biggest selling point was the fact that you could make a Demon Hunter which was something that a lot of people (mostly blood elf players) have hoped for ever since they saw them back in TBC and heard rumors of them being a potential playable class.

Then BFA comes around and nerfs Demon Hunters so badly that they became unplayable for the longest time, even worse the Shadow Priest's mess when they lost their Artifact Weapons. All the hardwork people put into Legion was diminished the moment you lost your artifact weapon and a lot of the bells and whistles that made the classes strong, and some specs still haven't recovered from it and need to go through extensive reworks just to be "playable" let alone be optimal.

The systems of Warcraft never failed as hard as BfA launch. The brutal loss of power and utility from the artifacts and the extremely poor and in some cases plain stupid implementation of Azerite gear together with Blizzard stonewalling theorycrafters who rang every bell throughout the beta just messed everything up.

[Woggmer]

That graph doesn't make much sense to me. Not in the sense that BFA has a low point compared to Shadowlands, but that Shadowlands has a higher launch than Legion and BFA... almost on par with WoW Classic's launch. In a sequel expansion that came after it made Sylvanas super unpopular, shits on the story and gameplay.

It could just be pandemic, but I don't recall a lot of people being super hyped about Shadowlands when it launched. Especially with people warning Blizzard that covenants weren't ready and that they still needed to fine tune a lot of things wrong with them.

[hattahat]

All those reasons are probably why I hate it so much actually. Because it had all those good parts, and still managed to squander it so badly on a terrible plot.
I love me a good steak and fries with a creme brulee for dessert. I wouldnt like it if someone served me experimental beef cubes in vanilla custard.

- - - Updated - - -

Is that graph confirmed legitimate? Because it seems wildly unprofessional given the lack of actual numbers to compare the graph to. It seems like a reasonable expression of the reality of subscription numbers, but I don't want to just blindly trust something so easily faked.

Yeah, actually, the GDC article was already up about 40 hours ago in Korea, and that graph is exactly the same as the one in the article. https://www.inven.co.kr/webzine/news...94262&site=wow

[Woggmer]

The systems of Warcraft never failed as hard as BfA launch. The brutal loss of power and utility from the artifacts and the extremely poor and in some cases plain stupid implementation of Azerite gear together with Blizzard stonewalling theorycrafters who rang every bell throughout the beta just messed everything up.

I don't know if I misremembered it, but I think at the time Azerite armor was initially supposed to be on every armor slot, not just head, shoulder, and chest... but someone must've thought it would made the game too complex to work with especially given the reaction everyone had at Blizzcon when they tried to explain how Azerite Armor worked.

So it probably would've had a lot more going into it.. that's just my theory about it, but we'll never know.

[Reive]

https://www.inven.co.kr/webzine/news...94262&site=wow

gdc presentation for those interested. it's in korean so you probably have to use google translate

[Woggmer]

Meh. All I took from this is that they recognized what SL failed to do, and that they're doing these sagas so that said failures won't happen again. Sagas are a great way of properly building up cosmic storylines as well imo.

I think from Legion to Shadowlands was supposed to be considered a "saga" or rather the Sylvanas Saga. It could've 'worked' if they hadn't done this plotline before with Garrosh back in MoP and WoD. Right down to the fact that the War Crimes novel wanted to paint Garrosh as the next Arthas. But that's just the plot... I can't defend the bad gameplay choices they went with for BFA and SL.

Now, they actually give us insight that yes, these next expansions are part of a bundle of stories to be paired together. They've thought ahead about these... Which is why TWW has a lot riding on it, because as much as people are amped about Midnight and dealing with the Void and going back to Quel'thalas, TWW's success will have a factor in all this as well.

[FelPlague]

Season 4 so far:
Return of Dinar system, possibly just 1?
BG Blitz rating systems, maybe 10.2.7?
Fated returning without weekly cycling?
Open World gear more meaningful Ilvl?

I bet we'll get something unannounced?

There is something, what that is we don't know but something.

Also love the signature.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't know if I misremembered it, but I think at the time Azerite armor was initially supposed to be on every armor slot, not just head, shoulder, and chest... but someone must've thought it would made the game too complex to work with especially given the reaction everyone had at Blizzcon when they tried to explain how Azerite Armor worked.

So it probably would've had a lot more going into it.. that's just my theory about it, but we'll never know.

Nah it was theorized by players it would expand to more slots, but blizz never said such, it was always just the 3 parts.

- - - Updated - - -

That graph doesn't make much sense to me. Not in the sense that BFA has a low point compared to Shadowlands, but that Shadowlands has a higher launch than Legion and BFA... almost on par with WoW Classic's launch. In a sequel expansion that came after it made Sylvanas super unpopular, shits on the story and gameplay.

It could just be pandemic, but I don't recall a lot of people being super hyped about Shadowlands when it launched. Especially with people warning Blizzard that covenants weren't ready and that they still needed to fine tune a lot of things wrong with them.

Shadowlands was boosted by classic... That's why.

[Woggmer]

Shadowlands was boosted by classic... That's why.

I don't buy that, it would mean that a bunch of people had to pay for Shadowlands and jump from Classic back into retail to play the new expansion. Nobody would want to jump back into retail when they can just stick to Classic.

The problem with this graph is that it shows all the players that have ever subscribed to WoW... but it doesn't explain how much of the numbers are playing Classic vs Retail. And even then, Classic launched MONTHS before Shadowlands officially dropped.