"Promised content"

[Maw]

Are you sure? I mean... Look at all of the Azeroth main cities that aren't SW or Org. They were once cool, atmospheric cities... and now... NOTHING. That leads me to believe that cities aren't really all that important. Cities are more like a flavor of the month.

What a silly comparison. They matter during that month, they matter during WoD, which is what we're talking about. Maybe it won't matter another 10 years down the road, but that has nothing to do with the conversation lol.

Hell, the WoD raids will be dramatically less played in 10 years then when released. Flavour of the month!! Who cares if they're any good?!? /sarcasm

[Osmeric]

It's pretty simple why people were pissed. Blizzcon's presentation was a sales pitch to the userbase. People bought into the promises and features, and when they were revoked people get upset. Simple, really.

Except that people weren't actually out any money, so no damage was done except to expectations. To get mad over that is entirely unreasonable.

"You fooled me into thinking something!"

[Alternategray]

Arguing over semantics isn't going to get us anywhere. "Promised" vs anticipated, etc. I honestly don't even think it's so much that things are being removed/nerfed, as the implementation falls far short of what it could be.

We expect the craftsmanship to go up over time, but it seems like the quality of the game has gone down and things are sloppily implemented without much thought for the long term. At this point in WoW every introduced feature should have an internal "road map" of what can or will be done with it for the next 2 to 4 expansions, and that's obviously not the case. There should be a developer understanding, or at least an expectation, of how something will affect the gameplay in the long-term, but that's non-existent. It's just shiny-but-not-well-thought-out gimmick after gimmick, often with unintended or unforeseen consequences, and that's almost solely due to the leadership of people who understand the technical aspects of the game but fail to grasp the heart of it. WoW's ranks may include a ton of brilliant tacticians, but not one good strategist.

The fact of the matter is, the corporate and creative climate at Blizzard-WoW has changed considerably since WoW made it big and that's going to be reflected in the game. "Build a great game and the profits will come" has been replaced with "build a tool designed to maximize profits". Devs and executives who didn't support this change are either gone or laying low. Micro-transactions are the future of big-money gaming, and if a feature doesn't support that you can expect that its priority is going to be minimized. They're squeezing the cash cow for all it's worth, and money that should be reinvested into the company and into the game is being redirected to other projects or to shareholders. The leadership stopped seeing the game as their artistic creation, and starting seeing it as nothing but a tool to make money- and that was probably due a change in the leadership.

Which reminds me: a big part of the changes we're seeing is that Blizzard is cutting back on "unnecessary" expenditures and reinventing their loot system to be far more addictive. If old WoW was cocaine, now they're shooting for crack: cheaper to produce and much more addictive.

It's hard to have a reasonable discussion about this game, and I know I'm just as much a part of the problem as anyone- but after 9 years invested, it's more than a game, it's a serious hobby. Take a car that someone's invested 9 years into restoring and take some spray paint to it and check out the reaction. People are emotionally invested in this game, and many are addicted. Why do you think the devs insisted that changes to gameplay don't affect subscriptions in any major way? They're partly wrong, of course- they assumed far more people play due to addiction than is the case, and the massive drop in sub numbers after major gameplay changes (in the form of Cata/Mists) reflects that. Change the gameplay too much, and you're left with only the hardcore addicts and the players who weren't playing for the gameplay in the first place.

The key point is: your game has changed, and more importantly the design philosophy behind that game has changed radically. Get used to it.

[Stormspark]

Except that people weren't actually out any money, so no damage was done except to expectations. To get mad over that is entirely unreasonable.

"You fooled me into thinking something!"

Except...they did the "receive a free 90 *now* if you preorder the expansion" right after that, so some people were out money.

[Osmeric]

Except...they did the "receive a free 90 *now* if you preorder the expansion" right after that, so some people were out money.

But no, since you can get a full refund on that. Try again.

[Seezer]

You are implying that showing trailers for a game saying, "NEW FEATURE X" or having a panels at blizzcon explaining new additions to the expansion aren't promises? Writing blog entries like "Warlords of Draenor UI improvements" showcasing things like the hierloom tab and then just going back on your word later isn't lying? Furthermore, that people shouldn't feel lied to when the product advertised turns out nothing like it was originally sold to them?

That is not a promise. MMO's change so much they can't be held to a promise. So they don't promise. YOu have all the power in the world to stop paying for something you feel slighted by. And Blizz will give you back your money for your pre-order. But that probably doesn't fit into your agenda.

[JacoKhan]

I think the whole idea of everybody needing to see everything is a mistake that is slowly hurting the game over time. People may disagree, but LFR significantly diminishes a lot of the social aspect of the game. You don't need to befriend other people or guilds to finish content anymore. Even most world bosses only need to be tagged now.

[Seezer]

Except...they did the "receive a free 90 *now* if you preorder the expansion" right after that, so some people were out money.

You want to know what happens when you get a refund on your pre order but already used your 90 boost? Your boosted toon will get locked. Nobody is out money. You can still get dat refund yo. So what's the argument now?

[Low Hanging Fruit]

It is pretty clear:

-No promises were made.
-This is pretty common business practice across the whole globe.
-Some people need to learn how to handle disappointed.
-Some people cannot handle disappointment so they constantly complain.
-Complaining, having people agree with complaints, and bandwagon hate doesn't equal being right.

/thread

[Deleted]

But no, since you can get a full refund on that. Try again.

Yeah, try it after you used the character boost to 90.

You wont be able to play your boosted character after that anymore until you purchase a character boost which costs nearly as much as the upcoming expansion.

Yes, you get a full refund. But yes, you also will lose the character you boosted to 90 with the character boost included in the expansion.

Blizzard is not even fair on refunds. If they were fair, they would reset the character to back what it was before you used the expansion boost.

[Maw]

The key point is: your game has changed, and more importantly the design philosophy behind that game has changed radically. Get used to it.

I couldn't agree more. The attitude has changed, right or wrong, Blizzard is out for profit. Look at Hearthstone and Heroes of the Storm, those games are practically designed to squeeze micro transactions from you. Paying for mounts and level 90 despite paying a subscription. A new loot system that is blatantly designed to force you to raid more for what is effectively better suffixes/modifiers. That being said, there are still fun elements, and some people prefer these changes. There's no right or wrong, it's just disappointing from the pov of a long term Blizzard fan. To use the old cliche, somewhere along the line they sold out, the impact is becoming more and more visible.

The sad part is that the games suffer for it. The hilarious part is that some people, for whatever reason (maybe intelligence level, maybe fanboy, maybe some other reason) simply cannot see it.

[Seezer]

Yeah, try it after you used the character boost to 90.

You wont be able to play your boosted character after that anymore until you purchase a character boost which costs nearly as much as the upcoming expansion.

That's what he's saying. You can still get a refund for WoD regardless of if you used the boost or not. If you already used the boost it will be locked.

[Destruktion]

But not by the number of different designed raids. And thats my points. It's easy to add 3 more bosses to an existent architecture than to create a complete new architecture of a third raid. I would have liked a bigger number of raids more than two raids full of easily scripted bosses.

I would rather have more bosses, but you are entitled to your opinion.

Well, in WoD we get less quests and more "dynamic events". Means rare and normal mob grinding and less story.

Ehh, content is content.

Garrisons are nothing new, nothing innovative. Just a instanced daily quest hub. And a bad version of SWTORs crafting system. Lets take a look on the other new additions, which i surely will not call features:

- A new quest UI. Wonderful. We had addons for that before.
- Inventory changes. Crafting from the bank. Sortable bags, which was done by an addon before. Colored borders, which also was done by an addon before. Just a QoL change, and not a real feature.
- Heirlooms. Hey! Great change but.. wait.. they delayed it.
- Quest items and vanity items get their own Collection, and dont take bag space. Also no new feature, just a QoL improvement.
- Adventure guide. Something that shows the player what to do next. In 5.4 it would only show "LFR" and "Timeless isle", right? Also no real feature. Just another QoL improvement.
- A new file system. Wow! A new file system! Thats surely 1000 times better than a new class! [/sarcasm]
- Item squish. So we get an item reset. Not a real feature. More a technical problem blizzard had to solve. A concept bugfix.
- new Models. With gnomes that look like disney toons, and nightelves that look like vampires on drugs. Bad work, Mr. Robinson. Why didnt you just raise the polygones and added newly created textures instead of completely taking the spirit from some of the old models?

If i see this list, i really wonder what they needed all the development time for. What did they do in the last year? Added one version of garrisons, scrapped it, added another version of garrisons, scrapped it as well, added a third version of garrisons and also scrapped it? A proper software development company would have planned that before. And would have guys who make the concepts. What if blizzard would hire real Product managers instead of publicity hungry "Game designers" that twitter way too much about their personal perferences? What if they would learn to use their forums to interact with their players, and not a social media like twitter, thats more a broadcasting medium for social interactions than a QA system?

And what if they would combine the international forums with the us-forums, so Watcher, Holinka and Celestalon would not exclude Europe and asia from their wish to collect feedback?

A "proper" software development company, as if you're in any position to make that judgement.
Whether you like it or not, garrisons count as a new feature. Your waving it off as a daily quest hub is meaningless.

Is it the main source for reputation farming?

If there is more to do than just reputation farming at endgame, then your argument doesn't really hold up.

Yes, they must have a hard time.

If you, rym, take any time after work for yourself to unwind, you are in no position to judge others for doing the same thing.

[Deleted]

That's what he's saying. You can still get a refund for WoD regardless of if you used the boost or not. If you already used the boost it will be locked.

So you lose a character if you ask for a "refund". It's blizzards typical tricks here.

They let no chance pass to cheat their customers. They dont even offer proper refunds.

[Osmeric]

Yeah, try it after you used the character boost to 90.

You wont be able to play your boosted character after that anymore until you purchase a character boost which costs nearly as much as the upcoming expansion.

Yes, you get a full refund. But yes, you also will lose the character you boosted to 90 with the character boost included in the expansion.

So... you want to not have preordered the expansion, but you still want the perk that came from preordering the expansion.

It's remarkable you don't see how reprehensible that is.

[Seezer]

Yeah, try it after you used the character boost to 90.

You wont be able to play your boosted character after that anymore until you purchase a character boost which costs nearly as much as the upcoming expansion.

Yes, you get a full refund. But yes, you also will lose the character you boosted to 90 with the character boost included in the expansion.

Blizzard is not even fair on refunds. If they were fair, they would reset the character to back what it was before you used the expansion boost.

Man, you're really trying to cover all of the avenues. Blizz is totally fair on refunds. You get your money back. Boo hoo if your level 12 mage is lost. You just still want to find something to latch onto to bitch.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

So you lose a character if you ask for a "refund". It's blizzards typical tricks here.

You lose what you paid for and then yanked the rug out from under. You lost what you upgraded. Maybe if you thought and didn't knee jerk react you wouldn't have had to worry about it. But you saw mount! You saw boost! You threw them your credit card number. This wasn't a trick. It was you being a sucker. Deal with your own problems instead of blaming Blizzard for them.

[Deleted]

So... you want to not have preordered the expansion, but you still want the perk that came from preordering the expansion.

It's remarkable you don't see how reprehensible that is.

No, i just want my old character back. Thats all. Unboosted. Blizzard just cheats you here.

[Seezer]

So you lose a character if you ask for a "refund". It's blizzards typical tricks here.

There is no "refund". It's just a refund. You paid for an expansion. Didn't like it. Got your money back. Blizzard isn't stopping your from making any new toons. You're the one that used the boost. Not them.

[Osmeric]

Man, you're really trying to cover all of the avenues. Blizz is totally fair on refunds. You get your money back. Boo hoo if your level 12 mage is lost. You just still want to find something to latch onto to bitch.

I'm sure most of those so psychologically compromised that they can't let go on this would not cancel their sub (or their preorder) anyway. So it's a moot point.