Biden / Harris Focused Discussion

[Edge-]

Once more I was not believed and mocked that Biden and Dems need to do something, especially on him failing on Student Loans. Yes, moving forward he is doing something but let's look Morning Joe.

Again, just pointing out that common refrain : )

In short where young voters across the board and broken down into groups overwhelming at around 60% identify as Democrats. The problem is they are disillusioned by inaction they are just going to sit this election out. The young voters, aka millennials and Gen Z are now almost the largest voting block.

Fun fact: This literally has been the case every generation. It's always going to be the case. None of this is new.

Now you can say young people never vote or whatever else. Yes, they don't show up like the old people but once more you have to give them something.

They have been. The extended student loan pause, an onramp plan that's being designed to limit the financial harm caused by payments restarting. The infrastructure bill that will help a lot of folks directly and indirectly. Tons of policies, just not the few big ticket items that some folks want.

Also, like, you know, the SCOTUS being at play as ever and a lot of these younger folks getting a front row seat for why it's so important.

In this video it once more focused on Student Loan failure by Biden (so far) as a reason. Not being forceful on climate change, taking back housing, reigning in corporations and the helping cost of living and wages, etc. I could go on.

Failure by Biden for...apparently not ignoring legal limitations, especially after a SCOTUS ruling affirmed them?

Not being forceful on climate change in what way? Biden is hardly a climate hero, but what authorities does he have that he's not using that would make meaningful changes?

What powers does the executive branch have to resolve housing affordability issues unilaterally? Without the need for Congress to step in, or for states and local governments to be involved since that's where the majority of the authority and responsibility for housing affordability and availability rests.

What powers does the executive branch have to reign in corporate profits? Or address cost of living?

Basically all of these topics you list as being "Biden's" failure to address are topics where, to my knowledge, the executive branch has fairly limited authority.

So we're back to the above and DO SOMETHING without knowing what or who would do the thing, but knowing exactly who the person to blame is apparently.

Hey one video, but I'm telling you people who want to do the "what can we do" and "let's talk policy" or my favorite "the Republicans messed up so much, the people obviously have to vote for us". I'm telling you, Good Luck with this.

Sometimes the response really is just that "they're justifiably angry but also grossly misinformed, and need to accept that there's rarely a perfect politician to vote for and you vote for the one who will do the most good/least harm." which isn't exactly the most exciting message but like holy shit welcome to reality being fucked up? By all means I'd love more exciting candidates and all, but we have to acknowledge that the kinds of candidates that excite zoomers aren't exactly the types of candidates that are going to get strong national support.

[Darththeo]

Once more I was not believed and mocked that Biden and Dems need to do something, especially on him failing on Student Loans. Yes, moving forward he is doing something but let's look Morning Joe.



In short where young voters across the board and broken down into groups overwhelming at around 60% identify as Democrats. The problem is they are disillusioned by inaction they are just going to sit this election out. The young voters, aka millennials and Gen Z are now almost the largest voting block.

Now you can say young people never vote or whatever else. Yes, they don't show up like the old people but once more you have to give them something. In this video it once more focused on Student Loan failure by Biden (so far) as a reason. Not being forceful on climate change, taking back housing, reigning in corporations and the helping cost of living and wages, etc. I could go on.

Hey one video, but I'm telling you people who want to do the "what can we do" and "let's talk policy" or my favorite "the Republicans messed up so much, the people obviously have to vote for us". I'm telling you, Good Luck with this.

Democratic Party like Republican Party is becoming more and more disfavored. People, especially younger people, are tired of the two party's that only seem interested in theater. A lot of people are choosing not to align with a party. I have no chosen to join a party because I hate the team aspect that is pushed by them. And I know a lot of people younger than I am feel the same.

[Paranoid Android]

Democratic Party like Republican Party is becoming more and more disfavored. People, especially younger people, are tired of the two party's that only seem interested in theater. A lot of people are choosing not to align with a party. I have no chosen to join a party because I hate the team aspect that is pushed by them. And I know a lot of people younger than I am feel the same.

Its not about choosing a party. Young people identify as Democrat but are not going to vote. Yes I get the point of not officially belonging to a party our casually mentioning you are a Democrat. The problem is young people are just not going to vote.

[Endus]

Fun fact: This literally has been the case every generation. It's always going to be the case. None of this is new.

Politicians are older. The average age of members of Congress in 58. Of course older folks aren't hip with what the kids are worried about. They dismiss it as the ignorance of youth. This is a truism dating back to Ancient Greece, at a minimum, and that's a limit only predicated on the lack of availability of accounts from earlier. The only way this would ever change is if older folks in power made their focus addressing the concerns of the youth of their nation, rather than the concerns of themselves and their peers. And that's just not gonna happen, and it's kinda silly anyone expects it would.

Failure by Biden for...apparently not ignoring legal limitations, especially after a SCOTUS ruling affirmed them?

Not being forceful on climate change in what way? Biden is hardly a climate hero, but what authorities does he have that he's not using that would make meaningful changes?

It's deeper than Biden. Democratic representatives in both houses have traditionally been dismissive of scientists' warnings regarding the climate crisis, since the '60s. Who gives a fuck about the planet when oil companies can make more profits? That's largely been the mantra until VERY recently, and even after that shift, the response has been so half-assed it's the policy equivalent of pissing on a forest fire.

What powers does the executive branch have to resolve housing affordability issues unilaterally? Without the need for Congress to step in, or for states and local governments to be involved since that's where the majority of the authority and responsibility for housing affordability and availability rests.

What powers does the executive branch have to reign in corporate profits? Or address cost of living?

While you can't blame Biden personally in his office as President, Biden's colleagues in Congress and Biden himself for the rest of his political career have all contributed to the dysfunctional status quo. Corporate profits are only out of whack because of regulatory decisions. Cost of living is only out of whack for the same. This stuff has always been solveable; American politicians on both sides are largely uninterested if not outright antagonistic to doing so. Including Biden. He's not the problem, but he's definitely part of the problem.

Americans do need to abandon the idea that a single heroic figure can achieve, well, anything meaningful, and realize that they need to be voting on every level from municipal on up.

[Edge-]

https://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...labor-dispute/

Vice President Harris’s staff switched hotels ahead of a planned visit to Los Angeles around the holiday weekend before a worker strike kicked off, in a show of support for the union leading the labor dispute.

The vice president’s office confirmed to The Hill the staff switched hotel reservations to a location that wasn’t involved in the strike before the trip to southern California, where thousands of workers walked out of hotels to push for better wages and benefits.

“UNITE HERE applauds the decision of the Vice President to do the right thing and live up to the values that Democrats champion every day as the true party of the working class,” the union said in a statement.

Ahead of the walkout, Harris’s team planned to stay in a hotel with an expired contract in connection with the labor dispute, the union said.

“It’s not a surprise coming from the co-chair of the White House Task Force on Worker Organizing and Empowerment. It’s moves like this by this administration’s leadership that led to our Union joining others and the AFL-CIO in endorsing Biden-Harris ahead of the 2024 election,” the union said.

Small thing, but good thing.

[Draco-Onis]

Failure by Biden for...apparently not ignoring legal limitations, especially after a SCOTUS ruling affirmed them?

I think the frustration is from the timidness then limited action Biden has taken on the subject.

Not being forceful on climate change in what way? Biden is hardly a climate hero, but what authorities does he have that he's not using that would make meaningful changes?

He's approved more oil drilling than Trump, going back on this word with Saudi Arabia this is of his own making.

What powers does the executive branch have to resolve housing affordability issues unilaterally? Without the need for Congress to step in, or for states and local governments to be involved since that's where the majority of the authority and responsibility for housing affordability and availability rests.

What powers does the executive branch have to reign in corporate profits? Or address cost of living?

I think this fall under Biden didn't really push on this and neither most of the party he gets the blame because he is the leader of the party. For example raising taxes to pre Trump levels won't happen because of Manchin and Sinema not to mention the house when they had control. However what matters in politics is perception not reality, Biden spent his first two years being made a laughing stock by Manchin basically destroyed any image of strength or conviction on these issues.

[Edge-]

I think the frustration is from the timidness then limited action Biden has taken on the subject.

I can get that to a point but if he'd taken "bold action"...the results would be the same. The same challenges would have been issued, his actions would be stayed pending the case working its way through the courts, and the SCOTUS would have made the same ruling.

If anything, them not wasting a ton of time trying to "GO BIG" and instead letting it work its way through the courts while working on a fallback plan is the far less exciting, far smarter, more practical and effective path forward. It's just...you know...not something super duper exciting because most of the time you "do shit by the book" it's pretty fuckin boring even when accomplishing positive results.

He's approved more oil drilling than Trump, going back on this word with Saudi Arabia this is of his own making.

He has approved more permits than Trump over the same period of time. And? That's something that sounds bad but...is it all that bad?

https://www.politifact.com/article/2...ing-why-and-d/

So looking at "just drilling permits" as cherry picked data? Yeah, not great. But looking at it in broader context? Actually not that bad given realities.

And which word? The word to punish them that was never really going to happen because SA remains a key regional ally of the US and all? I'm unsure what climate-related pledge he'd made in relation to SA. Don't get me wrong, fuck SA, but reality exists and sometimes you have to deal with pretty shitty leaders and governments.

I think this fall under Biden didn't really push on this and neither most of the party he gets the blame because he is the leader of the party. For example raising taxes to pre Trump levels won't happen because of Manchin and Sinema not to mention the house when they had control. However what matters in politics is perception not reality, Biden spent his first two years being made a laughing stock by Manchin basically destroyed any image of strength or conviction on these issues.

Jesus this is such a bad take dude what the hell. Remember literally every "centrist" spending basically the entire time between the 2020 election and when the new government was seated constantly warning progressives to check expectations because the 50:50 control of the Senate wasn't actually? It made for great articles from the TMZ political writers about how Manchin TOTALLY PWNED BIDEN and whatnot, but it also showed a failure to understand the basic dynamics of that Senate and instead play into the know-nothing sensational nonsense.

So what could they have done beyond...vague, undefined pushes? Again, there's far more power and authority to address housing on the state and local levels than on the federal level. For all its powers the federal government does have quite a few limitations, and state/local elections/governments matter a lot.

Also, the first two years delivered the infrastructure bill that Republicans keep trying to take credit for. To act as if there weren't some pretty notable wins because "Manchin was totally PWNING Biden" or something is silly. And then we have things like Biden basically taking House Republicans to the cleaners over the debt ceiling bill rofl.

[Paranoid Android]

Sorry @Edge didn't have time or energy to reply bout my post on young voters. Going to throw @Draco-Onis on this too. I'm more with his takes.

1. On what we call inaction and Edge you see as "well it's going to get blocked" is the defeatist attitude I despise in Dems. Sadly I watch the new PodSavesAmerica and while I was mad at the first half they eventually got to some things. But still them and the whole of Dems just look at the loses immediately and say "I give up". Oh back to PodSaves they admitted on any judicial reform that old ass Senator, Judicial Committee Biden would need to be pushed. Once more these establishment Dems who think they are back in 1980's.

Just on this point Biden can do many Executive Orders, which I know, I know, will be overturned but I'm just stressing you have to give the voters something. See the Republicans can get and keep voters cause they run on chaos and inaction where they get to bitch about the government, get elected and then when in office don't legislate and people get made at government for not doing anything.

The great example was oil prices and how the Republicans voters cried about the government Do Something! Yet, we all here laughed cause the love that free market, capitalism. So instead of these people deciding to vote for people who govern they don't.

I'm getting off topic in the concentration on voters Dems can get. In short you need bold moves and especially the bully-pulpit to energize voters. Biden is so old that him hitting the circuit will never happen. Shoot even as Great as Obama was he was horrible at selling his ideas.

2. I wont go too much into climate change actions, cause I would just group everything together, but I will say Biden has been a failure. The baby steps on climate are not enough and the Climate bill was so nerfed that once more you can't say this is bold legislation. But hey I say this about most.

I'll just say as always that Biden and the Dems really are the owned party in their job is not do anything by the rich and corporations. Republicans are at least paid for to help the rich. Dems strategy is to wait for the Republicans to fail so hard that we must vote for them.

Admittedly I know every short coming and faults of our shit government. I just always point out that not doing anything is not going to get you new voters.

[Edge-]

Sorry @Edge didn't have time or energy to reply bout my post on young voters. Going to throw @Draco-Onis on this too. I'm more with his takes.

1. On what we call inaction and Edge you see as "well it's going to get blocked" is the defeatist attitude I despise in Dems. Sadly I watch the new PodSavesAmerica and while I was mad at the first half they eventually got to some things. But still them and the whole of Dems just look at the loses immediately and say "I give up". Oh back to PodSaves they admitted on any judicial reform that old ass Senator, Judicial Committee Biden would need to be pushed. Once more these establishment Dems who think they are back in 1980's.

I haven't listened to PodSaveAmerica in ages, but it was fun popcorn listening a while back.

"Well it's going to get blocked" well...yeah? You call it a defeatist attitude but knowing this SCOTUS it's practical, which is why, rather than spend a time of time and effort PUSHING AND MAKING NOISE the Biden administration seems to have more wisely used their time by working on a backup plan to limit the harms.

There's not continuing to fight the SCTOUS ruling in the courts, that's the final say. The response would have to be Legislative and...we know that's not happening.

I'm unsure why you bring up expanding the courts, that's simply not going to happen even if many of us want it.

Just on this point Biden can do many Executive Orders, which I know, I know, will be overturned but I'm just stressing you have to give the voters something. See the Republicans can get and keep voters cause they run on chaos and inaction where they get to bitch about the government, get elected and then when in office don't legislate and people get made at government for not doing anything.

Big DO SOMETHING energy still. So pass EO's that are transparently not lawful and will be instantly challenged with a likely immediate stay before it's eventually formally overturned? To what end? Because it's DOING SOMETHING while not caring if it's DOING SOMETHING actually productive and effective? Do we just like DOING SOMETHING for pure political theater?

Things are being done. Voters apparently aren't seeing those things, so I'm unsure how showing them a bunch of judicial losses will somehow change their opinions wildly.

I'm getting off topic in the concentration on voters Dems can get. In short you need bold moves and especially the bully-pulpit to energize voters. Biden is so old that him hitting the circuit will never happen. Shoot even as Great as Obama was he was horrible at selling his ideas.

Per above, this reads more like DO SOMETHING political theater is the play here, which I'm not sure actually helps anyone or does anything productive but I guess might get some folks excited?

I guess we're still forgetting about the infrastructure bill and all that, he really should had infrastructure week headlined by him getting into a big-rig in front of the White House and honking the horn, then maybe people would remember.

2. I wont go too much into climate change actions, cause I would just group everything together, but I will say Biden has been a failure. The baby steps on climate are not enough and the Climate bill was so nerfed that once more you can't say this is bold legislation. But hey I say this about most.

Why/how? What actions isn't he taking that he has the authority to take? Most of the meaningful progress on this front is legislative in nature and...well...Republicans. I'm not arguing Biden is some environmentalist hippie by any means, but honestly even without the "but Republicans would be worse" comparison he's done...alright given the complex realities of running a country and the competing needs etc. etc.

I just always point out that not doing anything is not going to get you new voters.

You've offered remarkably little in terms of what could be done beyond Biden DOING SOMETHING purely for political theater to get people excited.

[Draco-Onis]

I can get that to a point but if he'd taken "bold action"...the results would be the same. The same challenges would have been issued, his actions would be stayed pending the case working its way through the courts, and the SCOTUS would have made the same ruling.

If anything, them not wasting a ton of time trying to "GO BIG" and instead letting it work its way through the courts while working on a fallback plan is the far less exciting, far smarter, more practical and effective path forward. It's just...you know...not something super duper exciting because most of the time you "do shit by the book" it's pretty fuckin boring even when accomplishing positive results.

Let's say an alternate reality existed Biden went big on student loans and failed, it would have been better. The base would see that he was fighting on the issue and he would have another weapon to use against republicans. The timid approach basically depresses the base, this is all about image and that's the image the cautious timid approach gives you. It's like someone saying they will give you a big gift for your birthday then giving you a regifted card few days later.

He has approved more permits than Trump over the same period of time. And? That's something that sounds bad but...is it all that bad?

https://www.politifact.com/article/2...ing-why-and-d/

So looking at "just drilling permits" as cherry picked data? Yeah, not great. But looking at it in broader context? Actually not that bad given realities.

It's not that bad is a very depressing slogan when it comes to climate change, he also escalated the trade war with China which has created issues with solar adaptation. I can go on point is Biden isn't Trump but that's a very low bar.

And which word? The word to punish them that was never really going to happen because SA remains a key regional ally of the US and all? I'm unsure what climate-related pledge he'd made in relation to SA. Don't get me wrong, fuck SA, but reality exists and sometimes you have to deal with pretty shitty leaders and governments.

So why bother giving his word and spend all this time faking it?

Jesus this is such a bad take dude what the hell. Remember literally every "centrist" spending basically the entire time between the 2020 election and when the new government was seated constantly warning progressives to check expectations because the 50:50 control of the Senate wasn't actually? It made for great articles from the TMZ political writers about how Manchin TOTALLY PWNED BIDEN and whatnot, but it also showed a failure to understand the basic dynamics of that Senate and instead play into the know-nothing sensational nonsense.

So what could they have done beyond...vague, undefined pushes? Again, there's far more power and authority to address housing on the state and local levels than on the federal level. For all its powers the federal government does have quite a few limitations, and state/local elections/governments matter a lot.

Also, the first two years delivered the infrastructure bill that Republicans keep trying to take credit for. To act as if there weren't some pretty notable wins because "Manchin was totally PWNING Biden" or something is silly. And then we have things like Biden basically taking House Republicans to the cleaners over the debt ceiling bill rofl.

Are you serious? remember how we got this joke of an infrastructure bill? Biden split the bill pushed the part that Manchin wanted and pinky swore Manchin would vote for the rest of the package then Manchin kicked him in the balls. It's not TMZ Manchin took a giant dump on Biden's image as a leader and he did this over and over and over again. Biden would go to bat protecting Manchin from the heat or give him a little push back and Manchin would reward him by blocking one of his signature legislation. It made him look like a pathetic fool who couldn't get anything done, the President Manchin joke is because of that.

[Edge-]

Let's say an alternate reality existed Biden went big on student loans and failed, it would have been better. The base would see that he was fighting on the issue and he would have another weapon to use against republicans. The timid approach basically depresses the base, this is all about image and that's the image the cautious timid approach gives you. It's like someone saying they will give you a big gift for your birthday then giving you a regifted card few days later.

So...you want performative politics? Because this wasting time on performative politics instead of using that time towards trying to actually accomplish something productive or that helps anyone.

This has big echoes of the day of the ruling. Online progressives LOSING THEIR MINDS HOW COULD BIDEN JUST ROLL OVER AND TAKE IT LIKE THIS and then he announced the backup plan and a bunch of progressives who were excoriating his administration for NOT DOING ANYTHING were grumbling that it just wasn't enough because he wasn't ignoring the ruling.

It's not that bad is a very depressing slogan when it comes to climate change, he also escalated the trade war with China which has created issues with solar adaptation.

Slogan?

And in what way has he escalated the trade war?

https://apnews.com/article/solar-tar...1b774dc15d61ee

Per this article that doesn't exactly seem to be an accurate assessment of the topic though.

So why bother giving his word and spend all this time faking it?

Politicians gonna politician! Sure, criticize him for doing the usual "make more promises than he can deliver on" schtick, it's dumb that it keeps happening but you know, he wasn't taking a timid approach and was engaging in the performative politics to get people excited that you said you wanted earlier. See what happens when you engage in performative politics rather than practical politics? You might get folks excited, but then comes the crash when reality kicks back in.

Are you serious? remember how we got this joke of an infrastructure bill? Biden split the bill pushed the part that Manchin wanted and pinky swore Manchin would vote for the rest of the package then Manchin kicked him in the balls. It's not TMZ Manchin took a giant dump on Biden's image as a leader and he did this over and over and over again. Biden would go to bat protecting Manchin from the heat or give him a little push back and Manchin would reward him by blocking one of his signature legislation. It made him look like a pathetic fool who couldn't get anything done, the President Manchin joke is because of that.

Honestly the way you write about politics makes it seem like you care far more about the optics of politics (which does matter!) than the realities of politics.

Spoilers: Nobody gets everything they want in their legislation or legislative package, not even when it's passed along party lines. There's always compromise, even internally, even if that compromise may be frustrating as fuck for us and be compromises on issues like climate change where we shouldn't be compromising, but them's the breaks.

[Sunseeker]

So...you want performative politics? Because this wasting time on performative politics instead of using that time towards trying to actually accomplish something productive or that helps anyone.

But that's the point he's making.

The Democrats aren't working on something productive instead. They aren't doing anything at all.

Something I learned from my last job that the Democrats need to learn is: You'll never get what you don't ask for. It doesn't matter if you know the outcome, it matters that you made the effort to get what you want. If you never make that effort, of course you'll never get it!

I want the Democrats to try to really try. I want them to put in the effort even if it looks like they're going to lose. I want to see them show to everyone "We're trying our hardest!". I don't care if they end up losing. I care that they're trying.

And from my perspective? They're not.

[Draco-Onis]

Honestly the way you write about politics makes it seem like you care far more about the optics of politics (which does matter!) than the realities of politics

I care about results and democrats have been failing at that as well but spoiler alert politics is all about optics. The voters do not care about pragmaticism and centrism, if you can't get results then the performance is how you sell yourself to voters and keep the base engaged. How many times do we have to see democrats failing at messaging? do you think it's just because they are being pragmatic and no one understands them? nope democrats are experts at depressing turn outs even more effectively than the GOP.

[Edge-]

But that's the point he's making.

The Democrats aren't working on something productive instead. They aren't doing anything at all.

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/07/05/bide...s-restart.html

?? This was the latest example of that and like...yeah they were doing something with the limited authority they have on the topic?

I get it, it's not satisfying and all because they have limited authority, but there's a difference between being frustrated at doing nothing and being unsatisfied because they don't have the authority to do more.

Something I learned from my last job that the Democrats need to learn is: You'll never get what you don't ask for. It doesn't matter if you know the outcome, it matters that you made the effort to get what you want. If you never make that effort, of course you'll never get it!

But...for example with the student loan issue, that's what was happening. They tried to forgive some of the debt knowing that full forgiveness would absolutely not fly, fought in the courts, lost, had a backup plan.

I want the Democrats to try to really try. I want them to put in the effort even if it looks like they're going to lose. I want to see them show to everyone "We're trying our hardest!". I don't care if they end up losing. I care that they're trying.

I mean, this was the resulting disappointing compromise on the infrastructure bill. They tried and pushed, but ended up having to compromise internally with membership that people were warning would be a stick in the mud since November 9, 2020.

I guess this is where I differ. On a lot of topics that's simply a performative waste, again going back to student loan forgiveness. They were fighting it out in the courts and that's all they could realistically do. Sure Biden could do national speaking tours pushing the topic and all but...so what? That wouldn't have any effect on the court case as it worked its way through the courts, the courts do not respond to public opinion as we see.

And from my perspective? They're not.

Fair. I'd be curious what you'd want to see more out of them to show that they're fighting. Not that I think they're doing a perfect job or everything they can, but personally I'm far more interested in the practical vs. the performative (I say this as descriptive rather than dismissive) aspect of it.

[Sunseeker]

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/07/05/bide...s-restart.html

?? This was the latest example of that and like...yeah they were doing something with the limited authority they have on the topic?

I get it, it's not satisfying and all because they have limited authority, but there's a difference between being frustrated at doing nothing and being unsatisfied because they don't have the authority to do more.

This could have been put in place 6 months ago, as soon as this went to court. Rather than allowing borrowers to fret, they could have just said "It doesn't matter which way they rule, we've got you." Rather than popping this out after a ridiculously drawn out ruling which was clearly waiting on Republican efforts to shut the whole thing down.

See, the Republicans were trying, the Democrats on the other hand tried one thing and then said "oh, I guess we can't do anything else now."

But...for example with the student loan issue, that's what was happening. They tried to forgive some of the debt knowing that full forgiveness would absolutely not fly, fought in the courts, lost, had a backup plan.

No, they didn't know that. They, and many others (and I mean legal scholars not you and I) thought Biden was perfectly within his authority.

I mean, this was the resulting disappointing compromise on the infrastructure bill. They tried and pushed, but ended up having to compromise internally with membership that people were warning would be a stick in the mud since November 9, 2020.

As I always tell people: Democrats don't need Republicans, they've got other Democrats. They're always their own worst enemy.

I guess this is where I differ. On a lot of topics that's simply a performative waste, again going back to student loan forgiveness. They were fighting it out in the courts and that's all they could realistically do. Sure Biden could do national speaking tours pushing the topic and all but...so what? That wouldn't have any effect on the court case as it worked its way through the courts, the courts do not respond to public opinion as we see.

Because from my perspective, and the perspective of a lot of people who voted for Biden, we did so because he made explicit promises that this was something he would handle. And from our perspective, he did one thing and then went "oh, sorry folks." Which isn't good enough.

Fair. I'd be curious what you'd want to see more out of them to show that they're fighting. Not that I think they're doing a perfect job or everything they can, but personally I'm far more interested in the practical vs. the performative (I say this as descriptive rather than dismissive) aspect of it.

Politics is performance. If they can't dance and also write bills, they're not doing half their job. One of the big reasons Republicans regularly win is their messaging. It may be lies and total bullshit, but they're really good at it! Democrats don't feel like it's their job to dance for the audience. They just sit there, talking, compromising, "working on it". Meanwhile their opponents are out there shouting, ringing bells, lighting fires, generally making noise and at the same time passing bills to oppress LGBT, overturing decades of precedent with the courts, stripping workers rights.

Apparently the Republicans can dance and sing AND get shit done.

So I will absolutely not tolerate Democrats who refuse to dance and also don't get shit done.

A specific example? Texas and Florida are completely out of control. The Federal Government needs to slap those dipshits down and remind them that they don't run the country. That the shit they're doing is illegal. And it absolutely WILL NOT BE TOLERATED. At this point, I don't fucking care if they black bag Abbot and DeSantis to do it. Lives are on the line and the Democrats do nothing.

[Santti]

Has Hunger Games taught us nothing? You always need a political face to excite people to get them to fight for you… while the real nerds do all the paperwork in the back to make sure that shit does get done.

That’s how politics have gone on for centuries. Democrats want to change that now to look more sophisticated. When in reality, they look weak and docile; people who will not fight for The People.

A Face of the Resistance has happened throughout our history — we have it many forms of entertainment now which is why I referenced Hunger Games. Even us, as private citizens, when we want change, we rile others up. We create theater to get get the movement going, even if it fails.

Why do it? Because it bonds you together against a common enemy — I fight for you, you fight for me, we fight TOGETHER.

To dismiss that, is ignorance. Truly. We see it every time elections happen with the Republicans… and it fucking works cause look at their turnouts.

The “We’re better than that” attitude that Dems keep pushing off, excites crowds behind keyboards.

And I wonder which side/camp will Independent voters go to in the middle of the night??? The camp with the roaring fire or the one with the glowing embers?

That’s how you have to think, tbh. I got that shit a long time ago.

See you at the polls (voting). Here’s for change.

Sure. That's not insane or anything.

[Edge-]

Sure. That's not insane or anything.

The "weak and docile" bit got me thinking about 'ol Speaker Greene asking Twitter WHO DO YOU WANT DEFENDING THIS NATION with a picture of her at night holding a gun with weirdly shooped eyes and then a picture of AOC taking a selfie before yoga and I'm wondering who the fuck thinks members of Congress are on the front lines of a hot war or who would want them there?

[Poopymonster]

The "weak and docile" bit got me thinking about 'ol Speaker Greene asking Twitter WHO DO YOU WANT DEFENDING THIS NATION with a picture of her at night holding a gun with weirdly shooped eyes and then a picture of AOC taking a selfie before yoga and I'm wondering who the fuck thinks members of Congress are on the front lines of a hot war or who would want them there?

Didn't all of Congress run, like little bitches to a bunker for their 2 scoops of ice cream, when peaceful tourists stole office supplies from Congress?

[unfilteredJW]

Has Hunger Games taught us nothing? You always need a political face to excite people to get them to fight for you… while the real nerds do all the paperwork in the back to make sure that shit does get done.

That’s how politics have gone on for centuries. Democrats want to change that now to look more sophisticated. When in reality, they look weak and docile; people who will not fight for The People.

A Face of the Resistance has happened throughout our history — we have it many forms of entertainment now which is why I referenced Hunger Games. Even us, as private citizens, when we want change, we rile others up. We create theater to get get the movement going, even if it fails.

Why do it? Because it bonds you together against a common enemy — I fight for you, you fight for me, we fight TOGETHER.

To dismiss that, is ignorance. Truly. We see it every time elections happen with the Republicans… and it fucking works cause look at their turnouts.

The “We’re better than that” attitude that Dems keep pushing off, excites crowds behind keyboards.

And I wonder which side/camp will Independent voters go to in the middle of the night??? The camp with the roaring fire or the one with the glowing embers?

That’s how you have to think, tbh. I got that shit a long time ago.

See you at the polls (voting). Here’s for change.

I stopped read at “Hunger Games”

What the actual fuck.

[Benggaul]

Sure. That's not insane or anything.

Consider the source. And the "source" they're citing. Seems perfectly on brand for them.

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I stopped read at “Hunger Games”

What the actual fuck.

"Has fiction taught us nothing?!" is a take I 100% expect from their kind.