No positive development for the Night Elves at all...

[Every Pwny]

The Exploring books make it clear that in the war the Alliance lost
-Teldrassil

And the Horde lost:
[COLOR="#B22222"]-Undercity

I just want to point this part out. It's always interesting how people try to minimize alliance losses (especially night elf loses) while blowing up horde losses. Teldrassil also contains the city of Darnassus that would be the equivalent of Undercity. The horde destroyed Undercity but are reclaiming the zone, the entire zone of Teldrassil and everything inside including Darnassus, Shadowglen, Dolanar etc. is lost entirely. Not only that the night elves had full control of Ashenvale after SoO but as of the exploring Kalimdor book, the horde is back to having many areas under control again, and the horde aligned shatterspear trolls have popped up again in Darkshore, so the horde gets new control in Darkshore. Darkshore is also blighted and devoid of life in exploring Kalimdor.

If you are going to make these arguments, do it a bit more honestly at the very least.

Technically trolls have been the punching bag of every race since day 1.

That is why I said playable races, you can say like Quilboar have been the punching bags since day 1 as well, or whatever race that was designed to be a non faction aligned enemy.

[Dellis0991]

I just want to point this part out. It's always interesting how people try to minimize alliance losses (especially night elf loses) while blowing up horde losses. Teldrassil also contains the city of Darnassus that would be the equivalent of Undercity. The horde destroyed Undercity but are reclaiming the zone, the entire zone of Teldrassil and everything inside including Darnassus, Shadowglen, Dolanar etc. is lost entirely. Not only that the night elves had full control of Ashenvale after SoO but as of the exploring Kalimdor book, the horde is back to having many areas under control again, and the horde aligned shatterspear trolls have popped up again in Darkshore, so the horde gets new control in Darkshore. Darkshore is also blighted and devoid of life in exploring Kalimdor.

If you are going to make these arguments, do it a bit more honestly at the very least.



That is why I said playable races, you can say like Quilboar have been the punching bags since day 1 as well, or whatever race that was designed to be a non faction aligned enemy.

Yes as a playable race trolls didn't have jack shit they shared their starting zone with the orcs my G....they got clobbered by everyone before that.

[Every Pwny]

Yes as a playable race trolls didn't have jack shit they shared their starting zone with the orcs my G....they got clobbered by everyone before that.

Darkspeare didn't get clobbered by really anyone in wow, and weren't continually losing in it either, also Darkspear aren't all trolls. Trolls the same as Gnomes shared a starting zone.

[Maljinwo]

Yes it's true, no other race has been continually shit on and destroyed like the night elves.

Trolls would like a word with you

[Kithelle]

They've been shitting on the Night Elves since...well since the beginning of WoW. They lost some of their edge from WC and there on in they lost more and more...lost their land to the Orcs...lost their uniqueness after they decided to add a dozen other kinds of Elves and got nothing in return...lost their home to Sylvanas and she gets off scott free...they were made a meme with the events based around Tyrande and Malfurion in Legion...lost their bite, Malfurion is the most powerful druid and all around one of the most powerful mortal being on Azeroth and got his ass kicked

Face it...the Devs treat the Night Elves like a joke...they don't care

- - - Updated - - -

Trolls would like a word with you

I don't know...the Darkspear have gotten a lot of shit, but all Trolls? Zandalari are pretty cool...Bwonsomdi is pretty cool. Name one good thing about Night Elves that has been added in years? lol

[Maljinwo]

I don't know...the Darkspear have gotten a lot of shit, but all Trolls? Zandalari are pretty cool...Bwonsomdi is pretty cool. Name one good thing about Night Elves that has been added in years? lol

Considering that trolls are not just 2 tribes but several that have been slaughtered through the years with their leaders killed off constantly...

The Twin Troll empires were utterly defeated by Night Elves and never recovered.
Forest Trolls were completely defeated by the Human/High elf alliance 2800 years ago and never recovered. Zul'jin was killed off. They now live on a crappy enclave on Zuldazar.
Jungle Trolls had a civil war, they scattered and never amounted to anything other than trying to invade Stormwind and failing. They are usually dungeon fodder now.
Shadow Trolls only have one member left
Ice Trolls killed themselves
Sand Trolls were killed for no other reason that looting their city and now survive on a crappy enclave on Zuldazar.
The Darkspear barely survived and were almost killed off by murlocs. Afterwards they got their chieftain killed and spent several years without a clear leader.

The Zandalari have lost every war and conflict they've participated in after the war against the Aqir.
They lost against a scrappy Pandaren Revolution.
They were forced to sign an agreement so that Aszhara wouldn't kill them off
They were relegated to an island
They were almost destroyed by a blood plague
They helped the Amani against the elves and still lost to 100 human mages. This is considered the darkest point in troll history, something that they would never recover from.
The goblins rebelled against them and they lost Kezan.
A portion of the Zandalari tried to become an empire again during Cataclysm and MoP but they fucked it up, incurring heavy losses again.
And recently got their city sacked and their king killed by the Alliance


What did the night Elves get? Jack shit, but their losses are recent, except for the Sundering, which they brought about themselves, they haven't been dungeon fodder for 20 years of wow nor background losers for thousands of lore years. Claiming they are "the ones that get the worse end of the stick" is bullshit

[Goldielocks]

And you are telling me that the game director and all other writers just let him go through with it?

No one on the entire team said no?

Ok

I'm going to assume that the leaders just have way too much power in these scenarios. You'd have to wonder how a story written by multiple people could ever be bad when the chances of at least one good writer making it good are higher. Yet, bad stories are churned out by writers rooms all the time.

Really the only explanation is that there's always one voice that decides in the end. The rest are nothing but advisors.

[Feanoro]

I'm going to assume that the leaders just have way too much power in these scenarios. You'd have to wonder how a story written by multiple people could ever be bad when the chances of at least one good writer making it good are higher. Yet, bad stories are churned out by writers rooms all the time.

Really the only explanation is that there's always one voice that decides in the end. The rest are nothing but advisors.

Yeah, you'd think Blizzard was a corporation or something. People who haven't worked in a large corporate office tend to think "teams" have WAY more influence than they usually do. Sadly, the normal situation is the boss says jump, they jump or hit the bricks.

[Kithelle]

Considering that trolls are not just 2 tribes but several that have been slaughtered through the years with their leaders killed off constantly...

The Twin Troll empires were utterly defeated by Night Elves and never recovered.
Forest Trolls were completely defeated by the Human/High elf alliance 2800 years ago and never recovered. Zul'jin was killed off. They now live on a crappy enclave on Zuldazar.
Jungle Trolls had a civil war, they scattered and never amounted to anything other than trying to invade Stormwind and failing. They are usually dungeon fodder now.
Shadow Trolls only have one member left
Ice Trolls killed themselves
Sand Trolls were killed for no other reason that looting their city and now survive on a crappy enclave on Zuldazar.
The Darkspear barely survived and were almost killed off by murlocs. Afterwards they got their chieftain killed and spent several years without a clear leader.

The Zandalari have lost every war and conflict they've participated in after the war against the Aqir.
They lost against a scrappy Pandaren Revolution.
They were forced to sign an agreement so that Aszhara wouldn't kill them off
They were relegated to an island
They were almost destroyed by a blood plague
They helped the Amani against the elves and still lost to 100 human mages. This is considered the darkest point in troll history, something that they would never recover from.
The goblins rebelled against them and they lost Kezan.
A portion of the Zandalari tried to become an empire again during Cataclysm and MoP but they fucked it up, incurring heavy losses again.
And recently got their city sacked and their king killed by the Alliance


What did the night Elves get? Jack shit, but their losses are recent, except for the Sundering, which they brought about themselves, they haven't been dungeon fodder for 20 years of wow nor background losers for thousands of lore years. Claiming they are "the ones that get the worse end of the stick" is bullshit

Yeah...because Elves haven't been taking L's for thousands of years themselves? They were literally the dominating power on in Azeroth...the biggest since the Black Empire, and what are they now? Homeless...Darkspear have their islands...Zandalari still have Zandalar, the Night Elves have nothing at all, they can't even really go back to the broken isles because 2/3 of the major powers there are Horde aligned

[Maljinwo]

Yeah...because Elves haven't been taking L's for thousands of years themselves? They were literally the dominating power on in Azeroth...the biggest since the Black Empire, and what are they now? Homeless...

They had the Long Vigil for thousands of years. They literally spent those thousands of years not losing or doing anything until the Legion came back
They have settlements in Hyjal which is where they are hanging out now tho

[cparle87]

Technically trolls have been the punching bag of every race since day 1.

This. Remember how all through WoW we were hoping to finally meet the badass dark trolls from WC3? We never get to meet them when Hyjal finally came out in Cataclysm cause Blizzard forgot about them. Then we get a footnote in BFA that the Twilight Hammer wiped them out and the last one in existence is just sitting in Dazar'alor as pretty much a living museum piece, and killable to boot.

[Syegfryed]

None of those races have got more shit than night elves who have been the punching bags of playable races since Cataclysm who are in continual need of saving. But as I've already established with you from our last interaction you know very little about the story in general, you didn't even know the night elves had Ashenvale after SoO so it's usually pointless talking about the lore with you.

All those races got more shit than night elves, by a huge margin, you are completely oblivious to the other races of the game, "Since cataclysm"? you don'tremember the only conflict in ashenvale was not even in their own capital zone. They were able to, defying all the logic, push the entire horde with the help of a few worgens and Varian, and They managed to kill hundreds of horde soldiers alone in the war of thorns.

While other races were indeed, punching bags, some races lost so many characters the devs don't know what to do, others are jokes on their own or completely neglected or absent of the narrative for years

But yeah, says its me who don't know about the story in general(i don't even know this lie of me not knowing that night elves having ashenvale after SoO came up ) Elf players always think everything is about their favorite race, and anything bad to then is the worst thing that happened in the world, while ignoring the rest, thats why there must be dailly threads like this.

[Neuroticaine]

Yay just what we needed, another account making elf threads... Yaaaaay...

thank you for your wonderful and thought provoking contribution.

[Syegfryed]

What did the night Elves get? Jack shit, but their losses are recent, except for the Sundering, which they brought about themselves, they haven't been dungeon fodder for 20 years of wow nor background losers for thousands of lore years. Claiming they are "the ones that get the worse end of the stick" is bullshit

But you see, they are elves, anything that happens to then is 100x worse than what happened to other races combined

they act like they are the only race in this game to 1)suffer a genocide(ignoring draeneis, blood elves, humans, trolls, orcs, gnomes) 2) had any losses whatsoever(yet, are the only race from wc3 to retain their leaders). 3) are the only races getting bad story development(like wat, are you even playing this game, literaly no race had any good development since mop).

Even inside the alliance there are races getting more shit,

- - - Updated - - -

I just want to point this part out. It's always interesting how people try to minimize alliance losses (especially night elf loses) while blowing up horde losses. Teldrassil also contains the city of Darnassus that would be the equivalent of Undercity. The horde destroyed Undercity but are reclaiming the zone, the entire zone of Teldrassil and everything inside including Darnassus, Shadowglen, Dolanar etc. is lost entirely. Not only that the night elves had full control of Ashenvale after SoO but as of the exploring Kalimdor book, the horde is back to having many areas under control again, and the horde aligned shatterspear trolls have popped up again in Darkshore, so the horde gets new control in Darkshore. Darkshore is also blighted and devoid of life in exploring Kalimdor.

If you are going to make these arguments, do it a bit more honestly at the very least.

You are saying others should make "honestly comments" when what you did was basically appeal to emotion here, saying teldrasil was more important because...?? loses are loses, Horde lost much more in the war, that is a fact. And i see where you were going, nowhere is stated that night elves had "full control of ashenvale", the accord from SoO first, never hold any weight(no parts followed the agreements) and the horde never leave warsong gulch.

That is why I said playable races, you can say like Quilboar have been the punching bags since day 1 as well, or whatever race that was designed to be a non faction aligned enemy.

Trolls didn't even had a starting zone, and lost the only character that had any major relevance.

I rly don't know where the hell people think night elves are "punching bags" when they effectively only had one lost in their wow lives by the horde, and that was in the war of thorns, their conflict in ashenvale end up with alliance victory ultimately, while horde retaining what they had from Wc3.

Taurens, by example, are much more of a punching bag than elves, they got annihilated in the barrens by the alliance, an entire tribe was genocided by dwarves, they got so much shit that in cataclysm Baine(ah yes, they also lost their racial leader, mind you, something night elves never experienced) raise a wall, and exiled the taurens who wanted to fight back.

Races dying on quests happen to everyone, look around the game and see that anyone are punching bag to the other side.

[DatToffer]

Tauren players say lol.
Gnome players say lol.
Goblin players say lol.
Forsaken players say lol.

[Every Pwny]

All those races got more shit than night elves, by a huge margin, you are completely oblivious to the other races of the game, "Since cataclysm"? you don'tremember the only conflict in ashenvale was not even in their own capital zone. They were able to, defying all the logic, push the entire horde with the help of a few worgens and Varian, and They managed to kill hundreds of horde soldiers alone in the war of thorns.

Not even close. Let's talk about Wolfheart then since you brought it up, the conflict where the night elves were outmaneuvered in their own land at night by orcs? The conflict where the night elf scouts got snuck up on by a shredder while they were observing the expanded deforestation effort by the horde. The conflict where the night elf forces lost and needed to be saved by deus machina varian. Yes that conflict. Or the questing in cata where the horde expanded their holdings even having a base right above Astranaar.

Then you act as if the night elves killing a few horde soldiers that invade their lands is a huge loss for the horde, when it's not even mentioned to be a problem for the horde (the horde blowing up undercity is later shown to be a problem for the alliance with both the coffins on the dock and the cinematic about Anduin talking about needing to bring farmers in). The night elves lost all their land, Ashenvale, Darkshore AND Teldrassil, but you are crying about a few horde soldiers dying in an invasion. This actually highlights the problem, some horde players are so use to the lore favoring them so much, they complain about even losing soldiers in a battle they won.

(i don't even know this lie of me not knowing that night elves having ashenvale after SoO came up )

I guess you just fly by the seat of your pants and say things and then forget about them, the horde was out of ashenvale after the SoO treaty as we talked about before but you said they were not and tried to double down afterwards.

the horde was there since warcraft 3, they will not left something they already got it far back, and its the night elves who are attacking the horde bases.

the horde took those lands when the night elves unprovoked start killing orcs back in wc3.

The horde was out of Ashenvale after SoO, it was also shown during WoT in the two novellas the night elves had full control of it and that is also why the horde has Azshara because of the treaty. It's clear you aren't aware of a lot of the story.

The horde never left the warsong lumber camp and they sure will not leave now. Just like the night elves never left azshara, as you can clearly see in this book, and they are attacking both

I guess you're trying to say the horde has been attacking the alliance since after SoO under Vol'jin, violating any treaty, but from the novellas the horde was out of ashenvale after SoO.

You are saying others should make "honestly comments" when what you did was basically appeal to emotion here, saying teldrasil was more important because...?? loses are loses, Horde lost much more in the war, that is a fact. And i see where you were going, nowhere is stated that night elves had "full control of ashenvale", the accord from SoO first, never hold any weight(no parts followed the agreements) and the horde never leave warsong gulch.

What you and that other poster failed to realize is Teldrassil is an entire zone, not just a city like Undercity. Darnassus is the city inside the zone. It would be the equivalent of destroying all of Mulgor or Durotar including most of the civilian populations of those areas.

Taurens, by example, are much more of a punching bag than elves, they got annihilated in the barrens by the alliance, an entire tribe was genocided by dwarves, they got so much shit that in cataclysm Baine(ah yes, they also lost their racial leader, mind you, something night elves never experienced) raise a wall, and exiled the taurens who wanted to fight back.

This actually tracks with my previous statement about horde being so use to winning all the they, they need to blow up their own losses. The tauren had a "raise a wall" to protect Mulgor, the night elves LOST their Mulgor equivalent entirely, these aren't equivalent things. After the night elves lost ashenvale and darkshore entirely, even getting Darkshore back after the warfront, Darkshore as of Exploring Kalimdor is mostly now destroyed and devoid of life because of the blighting and it maintains a horde presence through the shatterspear.

[Caerule]

I just want to point this part out. It's always interesting how people try to minimize alliance losses (especially night elf loses) while blowing up horde losses. Teldrassil also contains the city of Darnassus that would be the equivalent of Undercity. The horde destroyed Undercity but are reclaiming the zone, the entire zone of Teldrassil and everything inside including Darnassus, Shadowglen, Dolanar etc. is lost entirely. Not only that the night elves had full control of Ashenvale after SoO but as of the exploring Kalimdor book, the horde is back to having many areas under control again, and the horde aligned shatterspear trolls have popped up again in Darkshore, so the horde gets new control in Darkshore. Darkshore is also blighted and devoid of life in exploring Kalimdor.

If you are going to make these arguments, do it a bit more honestly at the very least.

If you're going to accuse me of dishonesty, at least be accurate. I mean, even the way you cut off the rest of the Horde losses of my post in your quote is not very honest.

The point I was trying to make is that the Horde lost the most in the war, compared to the Alliance. Something you don't appear to be disputing. Even if you are trying to make it seem the Horde only lost Undercity.

I'll definitely agree that the Night Elves lost more than the Forsaken. And I did overlook that the Night Elves indeed migrated out of most of Darkshore, due to ruins of the place remaining haunted. But it's misleading to say the Horde now has control in Darkshore due to the Shatterspear Tribe, who are described as retaking only their village in the mountains and preferring neutrality.

I'm also arguing in the post that the story of the Night Elves isn't done being told, and that I expect them to regain a capitol city soon.

Anyway, I'm not trying to minimize Night Elf losses. I think we're both in agreement that their race suffered the greatest and is due for positive developments. What I was arguing for is that when looking beyond race to factions, the Horde lost more strength in the war than the Alliance, overall. Unless you would argue against that, I don't think we're in actual disagreement.

[Every Pwny]

If you're going to accuse me of dishonesty, at least be accurate. I mean, even the way you cut off the rest of the Horde losses of my post in your quote is not very honest.

The point I was trying to make is that the Horde lost the most in the war, compared to the Alliance. Something you don't appear to be disputing. Even if you are trying to make it seem the Horde only lost Undercity.

I said "I just want to point out this part", the idea that the horde blowing up their own city, Undercity, is equivalent to the horde destroying the zone of Teldrassil and the civilian population within, it's not. Teldrassil is more than just Darnassus, it's an entire zone, this is the issue people like to gloss over. You make a list and dishonestly (intentional or not) list it as ONE item, which would be equivalent to any other item on your horde list. This is the dishonest part when you make lists like that and attempt to minimize the alliance loses as much as you can, while playing up the horde losses, it ends up being a "wow look at how many things are on this list, compared to this other list!"

I'll definitely agree that the Night Elves lost more than the Forsaken. And I did overlook that the Night Elves indeed migrated out of most of Darkshore, due to ruins of the place remaining haunted. But it's misleading to say the Horde now has control in Darkshore due to the Shatterspear Tribe, who are described as retaking only their village in the mountains and preferring neutrality.

I want to point out this part as well. I didn't say they have control of Darkshore, I said they maintain a presence in Darkshore through the Shatterspear. This is the same as the alliance retaining a fort in Durotar.

And the Alliance retain ownership of their keep in Durotar on Orgrimmar's doorstep. Their fortress in the Barrens.

This is a horde aligned presence that was attacking the night elves since Cataclysm, back again to maintain the statue quo, just the same as the alliance fort in Durotar is intended to do. Then you talk about Mor'shan rampart:

-The Mor'shan Rampart[/COLOR] (the Horde-Barricaded border of the Barrens and Ashenvale)

You talk about this while ignoring the renewed presence of the horde in Ashenvale where they end up ahead of where they were before WoT as horde continues their aggression in Ashenvale against the night elves.

Anyway, I'm not trying to minimize Night Elf losses. I think we're both in agreement that their race suffered the greatest and is due for positive developments. What I was arguing for is that when looking beyond race to factions, the Horde lost more strength in the war than the Alliance, overall. Unless you would argue against that, I don't think we're in actual disagreement.

Yeah, you could say "oh the horde lost both warfronts", what exactly does that entail? The horde took all of Ashenvale, Darkshore and destroyed the zone of Teldrassil at the start of the war but then eventually lost just Darkshore towards the end of the war, but expanded their holding in Ashenvale. So in that regards of pre-WoT, the horde ends up making gains overall. Then they lose the battle of Stromgard (I know some people think it's Arathi, but it was just a fight over the fort), but that is something they never really owned in the first place, and I think the horde end up getting a new fort there as well, I'm not sure if they maintain that fort at the end of the warfront though. The alliance finally take back Southshore, which the horde blighted in Cata, and in this regard the alliance end up a little ahead of where they were pre-WoT. But with the horde gains in Ashenvale, it's as if they are resetting the world back to pre-cata except for the horde now controlling Azshara and Darkshore is uninhabitable. It's not as if the horde didn't lose some off screen battles, but other than blowing up their own city, are they really that much further behind in terms of territories? Or do they even end up being a little ahead?

I'm also arguing in the post that the story of the Night Elves isn't done being told, and that I expect them to regain a capitol city soon.

Yeah, we can always "wait and see", but that has been the story for the night elves since Cataclysm. It's true maybe getting rid of Afrasiabi will be better for the night elves, but judging by how the devs have been treating Tyrande, Elune and the tortured/obliterated night elf souls in SL it's not looking good. Or how in 8.1 they thought starting the warfront was "Tyrande getting her revenge" for the night elves was a good enough story. It's hard to assume there will be anything positive for the night elves, just looking at how they've been treated historically.

[Syegfryed]

Not even close. Let's talk about Wolfheart then since you brought it up, the conflict where the night elves were outmaneuvered in their own land at night by orcs?

Yeah dear, outmanuvered by a huge HORDE army, not just Orcs, it does matter if "its their own land" its a forest with a bunch of elves who fight with guerrila tactics versus a entire horde army, and they won in the end

The conflict where the night elf scouts got snuck up on by a shredder while they were observing the expanded deforestation effort by the horde. The conflict where the night elf forces lost and needed to be saved by deus machina varian. Yes that conflict. Or the questing in cata where the horde expanded their holdings even having a base right above Astranaar.

Lmao, that is the way to distort the truth, you know, despite the horde only getting two to three setlements.

Then you act as if the night elves killing a few horde soldiers that invade their lands is a huge loss for the horde,

Klling a few night elves = huge loss for the alliance.
killing hundreds of horde soldiers = nothing at all

when it's not even mentioned to be a problem for the horde (the horde blowing up undercity is later shown to be a problem for the alliance with both the coffins on the dock and the cinematic about Anduin talking about needing to bring farmers in).

?!?!?!?!?!?! Horde literally could not holp against the alliance after losing so many, they could not defend undercity despite being a well guarded city and they ultimately were losing in every front of war before 9.2 with victory in alliance grasp, lmao

The night elves lost all their land, Ashenvale, Darkshore AND Teldrassil, but you are crying about a few horde soldiers dying in an invasion. This actually highlights the problem, some horde players are so use to the lore favoring them so much, they complain about even losing soldiers in a battle they won.

Except, they didn't, and this highlight the problem with bias from elf players. Horde literally lost the war, and the night elves Always had hyjal and Ferlas, and they got darkshore back, Horde never controled teldrasil, just like ashenvale, and everything went back to status quo before cataclysm, with night elves even attacking and taking places in azshara While the alliance is once agian invading durotar and the barrens, open your eyes

I guess you just fly by the seat of your pants and say things and then forget about them, the horde was out of ashenvale after the SoO treaty as we talked about before but you said they were not and tried to double down afterwards.

The horde never left warsong gulch.

I guess you're trying to say the horde has been attacking the alliance since after SoO under Vol'jin, violating any treaty, but from the novellas the horde was out of ashenvale after SoO.

The alliance has been attacking the horde since after SoO, violating their "treaty"

What you and that other poster failed to realize is Teldrassil is an entire zone, not just a city like Undercity. Darnassus is the city inside the zone. It would be the equivalent of destroying all of Mulgor or Durotar including most of the civilian populations of those areas.

???? Horde lostt the land all around lundercity with the alliance advance too, its not the equivalent, at all

This actually tracks with my previous statement about horde being so use to winning all the they, they need to blow up their own losses.

And this actually tracks my previous statement about elf players to blow up their loses, because they are elves, using appeal to emotion, and udnermining the rest of the game, like it matters

Thing about "mulgore" and orgirmmar" is that its the only place orcs and taurens have, while night elves still have Hyja as well other places to rebuild, other races don't have this luxury.

But again, keep acting like its only the elves who got shit, or the "worse" in this game, , come back at me when your racial elader become a villa and/or is killed and your race stay eyars without a leader ignored in development limbo
l

[Loreth88]

Yeah dear, outmanuvered by a huge HORDE army, not just Orcs, it does matter if "its their own land" its a forest with a bunch of elves who fight with guerrila tactics versus a entire horde army, and they won in the end
l

No offense, but u ever been in a forest? If u do without path or road u can't really move easy, and an army, no they can't really move and maneuver there. Ashenvale is a dense forestland.