[Megathread] Wildstar - Now F2P

[RoninaThorstone]

Wildstar is a linear progression, theme park MMO with a bimodal endgame. They just added a few different stuff to do as endgame where most games have 2-3 at best.Supposedly there are like 8 endgame actives to advance your characters or some thing like that.

Hopefully it's more like octamodal end game.

The 'PvE raiding / PvP ranked bgs or arenas' thing is pretty played out. I feel like that was the largest mistake swtor made endgame wise. In swtor, there was nothing you couldn't do in other games.

If this game can make end game activities for every type of MMO player than they might be more than just a niche game.

[Fencers]

And that's really the selling point. They are 'going' for all of the people who like WoW, SWTOR, Rift, etc....every one of those traditional end games, but giving more and more and more. It's why I'm so hesitant to believe it can happen, but they are at least very transparent in their intentions and philosophy around those concepts.

I know, it sounds great. I been interested in Wildstar for a long time now. Since 2011 actually. XD

Hopefully it's more like octamodal end game.

Well, it can only be bimodal actually.

There is a phase of leveling by which players progress in power: mode 1.
There is a phase after leveling by which players progress in power: mode 2.

What you do to progress in power during each mode is not a mode in itself from a design POV.

It's just kinda cool to be able to do whatever in each respective phase of the game to progress.

Endgame is after level cap progression specifically. It is the point before the actual end point- the absolute ceiling of advancement.

[Maarius]

Well, it can only be bimodal actually.

There is a phase of leveling by which players progress in power: mode 1.
There is a phase after leveling by which players progress in power: mode 2.

What you do to progress in power during each mode is not a mode in itself from a design POV.

It's just kinda cool to be able to do whatever in each respective phase of the game to progress.

Endgame is after level cap progression specifically. It is the point before the actual end point- the absolute ceiling of advancement.

damn now that you remind me how bimodal games look like I remember why I stopped playing WoW and learned to love GW2... meh

[Fencers]

damn now that you remind me how bimodal games look like I remember why I stopped playing WoW and learned to love GW2... meh

Well, Arena.net did add a post-level cap system to Guild Wars 2 in the form of Fractals. Which is the same exact function of such systems in World of Warcraft or Everquest. The latter is more appropriate than the abased World of Warcraft in this conversation.

Not really sure one could claim there is any + or - to having a singe or dual phase form of advancement. They are merely numbers presented in different ways. A bimodal endgame is completely neutral.

For example,

MMO A: [phase 1] level from 1 to 60. [phase 2] 60+, 60++, 60∞
MMO B: [phase 1] level from 1 to ∞

Same thing. It's just a psychological trick of game design to compact the experience of play. Sometimes to make the process more manageable, easier to understand, distinctly visible, etc.

Really, we should be miffed at character levels as a gameplay device. As that is an actual design choice that forces arbitrary limitation apart from player skill, investigation, comprehension &/or interaction.

[Maarius]

Really, we should be miffed at character levels as a gameplay device. As that is an actual design choice that forces arbitrary limitation apart from player skill, investigation, comprehension &/or interaction.

I think levels are important for storytelling reasons. There are tons of zones you can go to, it's good that there are also zones which are too hard at the moment, so that you feel the need to become stronger.

[Fencers]

I think levels are important for storytelling reasons. There are tons of zones you can go to, it's good that there are also zones which are too hard at the moment, so that you feel the need to become stronger.

Easily done without levels.

The only thing levels provide is a numerical & easily measurable [read: familiar] means of gating.

Example A: Story step 1 -> step 2 -> step 3 -> etc
Example B: Level 1 -> level 2 -> level 3-> etc

There is no difference.

Example B is actually the most common method of pacing [storytelling is an incorrect word choice] in video games.

The genre of RPGs have kept closest to levels as a mechanic. Though the device is used in the RPG genre more commonly as a means of doling out player capability within a system. However, do note that the particular device of "leveling" in the RPG genre can and has been accomplished through other means sans levels.

From a design POV, levels are merely a device for pacing/gating. As I pointed out in post #2587, using the examples of MMO A & B; both games are essentially providing the same level up play mechanic. Psychology/perception is the only difference to a vulgar audience.

[Wirzy]

I was completly hyped about this game untill I saw there are flying mounts, arenas and no world pvp...

Can we even raid enemy capital cities?

[Valeron]

I thought they were going to have different rulesets for severs (pvp, pve)?

[Deleted]

I was completly hyped about this game untill I saw there are flying mounts, arenas and no world pvp...

Can we even raid enemy capital cities?

I'm pretty sure there's world pvp, they just don't have any objectives for it.

[ultimar235]

Yes, we don't want WoW 2.0 here. The class diveristy in WoW has gotten incredibly bad. No MMORPG needs to repeat that.

Also, dual spec/tri spec should be in every MMORPG. There's no reason why they shouldn't be there.
It took WoW forever to introduce dual spec.

You don't want 'wow 2' yet you want diversity? So WoW merged some buffs and utility so that everyone is viable option in a raid or in a BG/Arena. You don't want that in Wildstar?

[Arlee]

I was completly hyped about this game untill I saw there are flying mounts, arenas and no world pvp...

Can we even raid enemy capital cities?

There is world pvp if you want to do it.

[Maarius]

Easily done without levels.

The only thing levels provide is a numerical & easily measurable [read: familiar] means of gating.

Example A: Story step 1 -> step 2 -> step 3 -> etc
Example B: Level 1 -> level 2 -> level 3-> etc

There is no difference.

Example B is actually the most common method of pacing [storytelling is an incorrect word choice] in video games.

The genre of RPGs have kept closest to levels as a mechanic. Though the device is used in the RPG genre more commonly as a means of doling out player capability within a system. However, do note that the particular device of "leveling" in the RPG genre can and has been accomplished through other means sans levels.

From a design POV, levels are merely a device for pacing/gating. As I pointed out in post #2587, using the examples of MMO A & B; both games are essentially providing the same level up play mechanic. Psychology/perception is the only difference to a vulgar audience.

are you saying that gating through story-steps is a good solution?

[-aiko-]

are you saying that gating through story-steps is a good solution?

I don't mean to speak for anyone else, but it's not really gating. It's character progression being directly tied to story progression. If the time it takes to progress from story step 1 to story step 2 takes the same amount of time as a "normal" level 1 to level 2 experience, what is the difference? Except that you don't have to grind anything but instead progress entirely through hopefully enjoyable story content.

[Fencers]

are you saying that gating through story-steps is a good solution?

I am saying they are the same device for "storytelling" purposes.

In terms of pacing, levels are just a gating mechanic. Like not having your double jump at the start of Symphony of the Night.

[Kelimbror]

I don't mean to speak for anyone else, but it's not really gating.

As to how it's being referred, gating, pacing, leveling...all interchangable and really boiling down to semantics. The point is that it's the same system approached with different sets of smoke and mirrors that prevent you from being able do do anything outside of the game's design, but appear different to experience because of the format. Ideologically it's just a method of control, to funnel you through specific content paths (whatever they may be).

Yes a narrative structure often helps reinforce the gating/pacing, but it's still a system that forces you to play by the rules. We enjoy those constraints a lot, because we do place a higher value on a story than our own freedom in video games a large portion of the time. There is no game where you can just do anything, because it would be impossible to program. Even in real life we are gated by things constantly. Constraints of reality.

To get into the real ideas you have to get very philosophical which gets messy, so it's best to just stick with concepts we are familiar with.

[-aiko-]

As to how it's being referred, gating, pacing, leveling...all interchangable and really boiling down to semantics.

Well, the issue I had was that 'gating' was used in the negative sense as though one system is gating while the other is not. Which doesn't really make sense, contextually, thus my reply. God damn semantics. :P

[RoninaThorstone]

You don't want 'wow 2' yet you want diversity? So WoW merged some buffs and utility so that everyone is viable option in a raid or in a BG/Arena. You don't want that in Wildstar?

I figured he just made a typo.

Everyone knows WoWs homogenization really killed it's diversity. So I think he meant that we don't want a bunch of similar classes and instead a few really different classes? /shrug.

[MOEEEE]

To be honest, i think Wildstar will be alittle like Rift... It will last for 1 - 4 months, and people will be bored off it. Like people said about rift: it will be the WoW killer. O really, everyone of my friends bought Rift, i didn't. They played it for 2 months, and they all came back to WoW. All i said was: I told you so. And i think it will be just the same with Wildstar, not to mention the game looks like shit if you ask me. A deffo non-buy for me. I'll stick to WoW.

[RoninaThorstone]

To be honest, i think Wildstar will be alittle like Rift... It will last for 1 - 4 months, and people will be bored off it. Like people said about rift: it will be the WoW killer. O really, everyone of my friends bought Rift, i didn't. They played it for 2 months, and they all came back to WoW. All i said was: I told you so. And i think it will be just the same with Wildstar, not to mention the game looks like shit if you ask me. A deffo non-buy for me. I'll stick to WoW.

No one is calling this a wow killer. The only people who are using "wow killer" are the people who come in here claiming that people are calling it a wow killer.

Also, Rift is still going strong. It's been out for more than 4 months.

What are you doing in this thread, exactly?

[Anprionsa]

Just found out one of my friends is going to be a developer there!