Shockadins in MoP... Maybe

[Judge Malthred]

Oh how I miss the days of being a shockadin decked out in T2 running around the countryside laying waste to the horde....

I hope one day it becomes a viable build again!

I like the idea of a mastery altering glyph to change the bubbles to extra holy dmg or something similar along those lines. Perhaps a mastery that reduces healing done and increases holy dmg done? That way as your dps becomes more powerful you healing would wane.

[Crashdummy]

From Ghostcrawler's interview during the press tour.




From an interview with Ghostcrawler during a MoP live developer Q&A

So, the more Demonic Fury you have when you activate it, the longer you can stay in it, but it's not unlimited duration or a lasts-until-canceled deal.

Sources:
http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/...ria-Press-Tour (scroll down to the Greg Street interview)
http://wow.joystiq.com/2011/10/27/mi...da-transcript/

Yes, but you can continue to generate demonic rage while in metamorphosis, meaning that it MAY be possible to stay forever (i havent do the math with cd and demonic rage generation/depletion).

[Baladash]

My appeal for a Shockadin would apply to PVP more so than Raiding or Dungeons. I think that if there was a glyph like Warlocks that changed our mastery into damage as a Holy Pally it would make them more balanced. Especially if you can Glyph into changing Heals into damage.

3 Scenarios:
1) Normal Holy Paladin with straight up heals
2) Taking the talents but not the glyph - a mix between the two Damage and Healing (not GREAT at both but can do enough of each)
3) Taking the talents and the glyphs - Trading healing for damage. It could severely lower their survivability but increase their damage output

This leads to some interesting choices in talents and glyphs and will allow players to play more to their play style. I love being a holy pally in PVP and healing larger groups like Tol'Barad, Isle of Conquest or Alterac Valley so I am spec'd into Light of Dawn (always made fun of when I random into a WSG lol) but I am also spec'd into Denounce and the Reduction to mana cost making it practically spammable. Really more of an annoyance to do it because it makes them unable to crit for 6 seconds

[Vuagnon]

Level 90 ability: Blazing Words

Requires 1 Holy Power - 30 yd range, Instant cast

Unleash the burning light to condemn an enemy with the words of a fallen Paladin. Causes 3045 holy damage per charge of Holy Power consumed.

- Spell effect might indeed contain the old sayings of deceased Paladins like Arthas, Uther and many others with effected targets hearing some short phrases from them. Didn't people already love Lich King's whispers during ICC? Why not now and why not hear from Arthas before he became the champion of Ner'zhul? Having the lore blended into game mechanics like this should never be a bad idea, even if that only means cosmetic improvements. And while it shouldn't be necessarily done right now, the game could always benefit from more roleplay and lore knowledge integrated with class abilities.

Edit: Treatment applied to Holy Shock could be used here similarly with a glyph increasing its damage at the expense of decreasing WoG's healing potency. That would actually be a fair balancing scale to prevent the possibly new spec from being overpowered.

[Baladash]

Glyph of Denounce - increases 20% Holy damage for 6 seconds
Glyph of Holy Shock - Decreases Healing of Holy Shock by 50% but increases its damage by 100%
Glyph of Word of Glory - Increases your damage by 10% for 6 seconds

Base Spells
Denounce - (.61*SP+512) holy damage and preventing the target from causing critical effects for the next 4 sec.
Holy Shock - 1 holy damage or 1 healing
Judgment - 1 holy damage

Talents

Holy Prism - if cast on an enemy it does 1 holy damage and 1 healing to allies. If cast on an ally it does 100 healing and 100 damage.

Execution Sentence - No numbers as to how this is calculated but still found be useful for single target

So lets look at our buffs and how they could potentially work together. I'm assuming that we have 10,000 SP purely as an example with no Seal

Holy Shock (Glyphed) - 20,001 Holy damage - Generates 1 HP
Judgment - 10,001 Holy Damage
Denounce - 6612 Holy Damage
Holy Prism - 10,001 Holy Damage (Enemy) or 10,100 Holy Damage (friendly)

Glyph of Denounce - Increases Damage of the above by 20%
Holy Shock (Glyphed) - 24,001.2 Holy Damage
Judgment - 12,000 - Holy Damage
Denounce - 7934 Holy Damage
Holy Prism - 12,000 - Holy Damage

Glyph of Word of Glory - Increases Holy Damage by 10%
Holy Shock (Glyphed) - 22,001.2 Holy Damage
Judgment - 11,000 - Holy Damage
Denounce - 7273 Holy Damage
Holy Prism - 11,000 - Holy Damage

Since each of the buffs only last 6 seconds they will only be up at the same time enough for 1 cast. Ideally you would want to spend that cast on a Holy Shock dealing 26000 Holy Damage

Now think of this.
Denounce/Avenging Wrath -> Holy Shock -> Holy Shock -> Holy Shock -> Word of Glory -> Denounce - repeat

Attempting to keep these all up at the same time we have a max of 50% Holy damage increase on top of the 100% increase for Holy Shock thats 30,000 damage almost every Global Cooldown after it ramps up.

This is the first time I've looked at numbers and these are just purely thought and ideas

[sixx]

Looks like to me that Blizzard wants healers to contribute a bit to the DPS of the group, i.e. Disc Priests Smiting. But it really is not like we'll be back to the ol'sweet days of BC were 2 shockadins could kill and survive on Gurubashi arena vs the entire server <3.... ooh Saitek how I miss doing that ..

But lets see, never say never. With more incentives today for Priests in general to dps with a healing spec while healing and with the possible design of a Monk healer that heals while doing deeps, we can expect anything at this point, is the beta after all.

[Firecrest]

Shockadins will never be raid viable. This is just fact. Accept it.

In order for Shockadins to be raid viable, two Shockadins would have to do more combined healing and DPS than one Holy and one Ret. This means that, in order for Shockadins to be viable, Holy Palladins and Ret Paladins would, by default, be NOT viable. If you believe that this is a situation Blizzard would allow to stand, you've another think coming.

Look, if you want to have fun with your weird spec while leveling, have at it. Hell, if your RBG or Arena team is okay with it, use it there too. Just, please, don't discuss this like it's ever going to be a raiding possibility. You give people the wrong idea and we're all worse off for having to carry people who're not pulling their weight.

[Vuagnon]

Shockadins will never be raid viable. This is just fact. Accept it.

In order for Shockadins to be raid viable, two Shockadins would have to do more combined healing and DPS than one Holy and one Ret. This means that, in order for Shockadins to be viable, Holy Palladins and Ret Paladins would, by default, be NOT viable. If you believe that this is a situation Blizzard would allow to stand, you've another think coming.

Look, if you want to have fun with your weird spec while leveling, have at it. Hell, if your RBG or Arena team is okay with it, use it there too. Just, please, don't discuss this like it's ever going to be a raiding possibility. You give people the wrong idea and we're all worse off for having to carry people who're not pulling their weight.

First off, how do you define the viability of the combination of Holy and Ret against two Shockadins by only looking at their healing done? Can't there be any situation where Ret's damage or Ret exclusive abilities become far more useful? And I'm not even counting the talent selection here, which may as well differ greatly from one player to another. Besides, two Sdins don't have to do more combined healing than a Ret plus Holy either. Can't see any reason for the amount of total healing and damage done not to be balanced at all, if the spec was really going to be developed like any other.

Second, while I'm not necessarily saying Shockadin should be made raid viable, or even better should exist, who the hell are you to claim that it will never be viable, and tell people to accept this statement with such a self esteemed and pompous manner?

Third, I thought that you could only be worthless than an animal when I saw your disgusting avatar.

[Gamdwelf]

Shockadins will never be raid viable. This is just fact. Accept it.

In order for Shockadins to be raid viable, two Shockadins would have to do more combined healing and DPS than one Holy and one Ret. This means that, in order for Shockadins to be viable, Holy Palladins and Ret Paladins would, by default, be NOT viable. If you believe that this is a situation Blizzard would allow to stand, you've another think coming.

Look, if you want to have fun with your weird spec while leveling, have at it. Hell, if your RBG or Arena team is okay with it, use it there too. Just, please, don't discuss this like it's ever going to be a raiding possibility. You give people the wrong idea and we're all worse off for having to carry people who're not pulling their weight.

Cus you work for blizzard and you know huh. I really think they could make it raid viable if they did more like the holy shock Glyph reduce healing for uping the damage portion of stuff.

[Edlarel]

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/2...class-changes/

A nail in the proverbial coffin...

I was cheering for these things too. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

[killtehnoob]

ranged dps maybe? but i would more than likely only use it as a pvp spec. it was fun in that regard

[Xeonxi]

I expected a lot more posts in here to be about Holy paladins dealing dmg in PvP; I was wrong. Shockadins will never exist in PvE anymore than a Disc priest smiting, or a shaman or druid DoTing. You want to toss out more damage as a healer? Good, you should.

Looks to me like Holy Paladins are stocking their utility arsenal well. My question is, do disorients and incapacitates share the same DR? Will repentance conflict with our Blinding Light ability? If not, we'll have: sheep, HoJ, Blinding Light, a melee interrupt, and Arcane Torrent (For us Belfs) which is a lot of CC to be working with as a healer.

[Gamdwelf]

I expected a lot more posts in here to be about Holy paladins dealing dmg in PvP; I was wrong. Shockadins will never exist in PvE anymore than a Disc priest smiting, or a shaman or druid DoTing. You want to toss out more damage as a healer? Good, you should.

Looks to me like Holy Paladins are stocking their utility arsenal well. My question is, do disorients and incapacitates share the same DR? Will repentance conflict with our Blinding Light ability? If not, we'll have: sheep, HoJ, Blinding Light, a melee interrupt, and Arcane Torrent (For us Belfs) which is a lot of CC to be working with as a healer.

smite priests are already viable many top guilds take them.

[Xeonxi]

smite priests are already viable many top guilds take them.

Right, because there are times when dmg isn't too high and they can help with DPS. I can't see it ever being more than that, a situational DPS tool. There aren't disc priests who smite/holy fire the entire fight, are there?

[Gamdwelf]

they incorporated it as a way to heal that was interesting and new with atonement.

[Firecrest]

First off, how do you define the viability of the combination of Holy and Ret against two Shockadins by only looking at their healing done? Can't there be any situation where Ret's damage or Ret exclusive abilities become far more useful? And I'm not even counting the talent selection here, which may as well differ greatly from one player to another.

You need to go read what I wrote. I never said healing alone mattered. Where you got that idea is quite beyond me. Healing and DPS matter. If two Shockadins can't put out better combined Healing and DPS than one Holy and one Ret, then it's pretty damn clear why Shockadins aren't raid viable. Hint: It's because you bring the Holy and Ret.

Besides, two Sdins don't have to do more combined healing than a Ret plus Holy either. Can't see any reason for the amount of total healing and damage done not to be balanced at all, if the spec was really going to be developed like any other.

You're just not getting this concept are you? It's not a "spec" and it won't be developed. You're totally allowed to have fun with your "creative" builds but don't foist the underperformance of your wishfull thinking on anyone else who doesn't have a choice but to carry you.

Second, while I'm not necessarily saying Shockadin should be made raid viable, or even better should exist, who the hell are you to claim that it will never be viable, and tell people to accept this statement with such a self esteemed and pompous manner?

Clearly you are one who is offended by logic and reason. Why I am able to say with absolute certainty that Shockadin will never be raid viable is clearly detailed in my previous post. It's the same reason why Blizzard will never create a spec that heals as good as any other Healer while, at the same time, doing as much damage as any other DPS. It's simple existance would invalidate any other non-tanking spec.

But since that doesn't do it for you... Feel free to assume that I am an alien being from the stars, come down to free you from your shackles of ignorance and reign as your benevelont overlord. And bring me a sammich.

Third, I thought that you could only be worthless than an animal when I saw your disgusting avatar.

Wow. Someone's upset. Simmer down. Additionally, are you defending the poor animals from no-smoking signs everywhere, or are animals "worthless"? Your insult loses some bite when it makes no sense.

Cus you work for blizzard and you know huh. I really think they could make it raid viable if they did more like the holy shock Glyph reduce healing for uping the damage portion of stuff.

You don't have to work for Blizzard. You just have to understand that they would never purposely invalidate two entire specs. And if they somehow did so on accident, it would be swiftly remedied.

[anaxie]

Shockadins will be about as viable as replacing a dps with a smite priest. That being not very good and below tanks. And no I'm not talking about crappy 7k dps tanks I'm talking about people who know what their doing as a tank and can actually do 20k while tanking which was needed on some prenerf encounters.

How the fuck can you expect to be a OMG SHOCKADIN and dps when you don't even have a viable mastery. Also HINT holy shock alone isn't going to get you anywhere past 10k dps.

[Gamdwelf]

Shockadins will be about as viable as replacing a dps with a smite priest. That being not very good and below tanks. And no I'm not talking about crappy 7k dps tanks I'm talking about people who know what their doing as a tank and can actually do 20k while tanking which was needed on some prenerf encounters.

How the fuck can you expect to be a OMG SHOCKADIN and dps when you don't even have a viable mastery. Also HINT holy shock alone isn't going to get you anywhere past 10k dps.

On live I can pull more than 10k dps, so your point is invalid.

[Firecrest]

On live I can pull more than 10k dps, so your point is invalid.

Yes, since you can currently pull about 1/3 the damage of a normal DPS on live, his assertion that Shockadin is non-viable is invalid.

[Malthanis]

Warning: Keep it civil.