PvP Needs to Be More Rewarding?

[Softbottom]

PVP has never really been rewarding. It's always just been recolors of other tier sets with the exception of vanilla pvp sets.

[Delaios]

Remove all the damn PvP World quests so that the only way to get Prestige would be in BGS.

I gave up on prestige farm cause of my hate of those WQs, which sadly is 100 times faster than doing actual pvp content.

Just wait a few weeks with that until I get my next prestige mount by doing nothing but warden towers and the occasional FFA quest!

[Deztru]

Because none of what you stated worked amazingly well at all. It didn’t feel rewarding and it fucked with balance. Not sure what you’re on about with “pvp power and resilience” being rewarding. Bringing up balance when your talking about pvp power and resilience is 100% valid.

What they’re doing in BfA could be very rewarding though. Gear impacting the stats on your template could be a great way to have gear feel impactful and therefore rewarding in pvp.

Getting conquest gear was very rewarding and the gap between that and elite wasn't that big. Grinding honor gear from random bg's to actually be able to do arena was extremely rewarding.

Of course it fucks up with balance that's thye point of having rewards in PvP, all this stat template with useless prestige grind bullshit just kills pvp.

[Kudos]

Just bring back the old gearing system with honor and conquest points to purchase items... It worked fine and it was well structured.

This is where I disagree and feel that there needs to be some kind of middle ground. I love pvping, but too many games in the past have been really unbalanced because one side had people that were using it as a gearing strategy. Nothing worse than a team full of Brutal Gladiator gear and the other side in greens because they're gearing up from PVP. That was a constant reality when I formerly played Alliance.

That said. There does need to be a greater incentive, but I'm not sure of what I'd recommend.

[Tharkkun]

MoP was one of the shittiest times for pvp aside from one season in terms of balance.

However it still had higher participation, probably due to the way pvp worked. Gearing for pvp was so much more fun, it felt good to finally be fully decked out in all epics. Now you get gear through RNG lootboxes and templates are barely even balanced, they’re just boring.

BfA might be fixing this issue. If you can choose how to gear for pvp in BfA like going for a crit build or a haste build that will bring back a lot of what made pvp fun which was Choice. I could see this being much better than how it currently is.

Many of the top pvpers who stream have repeatedly said not being able to reliably gear in pvp or gear not meaning anything in pvp is terrible. People in this thread seem to agree. There’s no choice and no way for you to improve your stats. In BfA this changes though so you can go for a crit build or a mastery build or whatever build you want which sounds amazing. Will need to see how it plays out.

Well the employee that was head of PVP and possibly pushing for the Legion system is on another game now. Whether he was the originator of the changes or just the messenger remains to be seen. He received so much hate for both Ashran and the Legion system. So we'll see what happens in BFA.

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Getting conquest gear was very rewarding and the gap between that and elite wasn't that big. Grinding honor gear from random bg's to actually be able to do arena was extremely rewarding.

Of course it fucks up with balance that's thye point of having rewards in PvP, all this stat template with useless prestige grind bullshit just kills pvp.

The power difference between someone who wants to jump into PVP and someone with full gear was something like 40-60% back then depending on the class. Currently it's less than 15% so they it did a good thing for PVP in general. The problem is all specs aren't receiving full representation or were nerfed and left to rot this expansion.

[Deleted]

Blizzard's current idea about PvP is fightclub. A bunch of dudes, naked with no skills and weapons going at each other with fists and achieving nothing of note.

[Deleted]

Really the pvp this expac has so bad they could literally do almost anything and it would be better. Like have it so that people can only throw rubber ducks at each other and move diagonally.

[Kauko]

Just bring back the old gearing system with honor and conquest points to purchase items... It worked fine and it was well structured.

I still dont get what was wrong with this system? They never really gave us a good reason. It worked for so long... and they go and change it instead of building upon of it.

[Deleted]

I still dont get what was wrong with this system? They never really gave us a good reason. It worked for so long... and they go and change it instead of building upon of it.

Because you used to get huge imbalances due to gear. The idea was that pvp would be a levelling playing field. Obviously that didn't happen.

[Deztru]

The power difference between someone who wants to jump into PVP and someone with full gear was something like 40-60% back then depending on the class. Currently it's less than 15% so they it did a good thing for PVP in general. The problem is all specs aren't receiving full representation or were nerfed and left to rot this expansion.

15% isn't nearly enough for it to feel like anything to grind towards, it's just stale and you never really see it.

[Sierra85]

i dont like the way the gear is given out in legion for pvp.

[Lazuli]

I don't think pvp gearing is what killed pvp in Legion but it was certainly a catalyst. Pvp just sucks now period, wpvp is dead cuz no resil and instanced is like no different than doing a pve rotation with all the pruning and simplification of specs. You may as well just pve, which is what most of us are doing now.

[Alydael]

I don't know if "rewards" is the solution for my problem. Maybe just "rewarding"

Let me try and explain my problem:
I love doing Random Battlegrounds. It brings me joy.
But sometimes i ask myself before queuing for a BG..."why am i doing this?"
There is no goal to achieve. There is no purpose. You only do it for the "joy" it brings you.

Why do i buy 50 Honor potions to have an advantage on the battlefield? Why do i take it so seriously?

The solution i found was to make small Youtube PvP Videos.
Because this way my actions had a meaning and an objective...but it was all just a temporary hype. Eventually i got bored (i dont have much editing skills anyway)

So my question to you is if you feel the same as me. "The lack of a purpose to do Battlegrounds"

Possible solutions:
-If by doing Randoom BG's you would get the best gear possible for World PvP, there would be a purpose for doing them. (at least for a while)
Maybe bring resilence back and "gear farm". (i think BfA will have again PvP gear farm but i think there is no resilence)

But this is just a "temporary" solution. You quickly lose pupose again when you farm the entire gear.
Can anyone think of possible solutions for this proplem on the long run?
If you think this is a problem at all.

I agree with you, pvp needs a better rewards system.

I also think part of the problem is that you basically get nothing when you lose as well. Even if you lose, you could have still played a great game and lost because: people had lag problems, some people left and the teams were unabalanced, the other team had 2 heals- you had one. All of those things are not your fault and beyond your control. Why should you be penalized for this. You also still put in the time investment.

I think they should move to: similar rewards if you win or lose (small bonus if you win), some kind of leaderboard ranking system (more for fun than for rewards), a different kind of match making system, clean up bots, more brawls, more different themes for the current maps (like summer in av, night battles, etc) and they should make reskin maps (just reskin ab for instance).

I would also like to see them bring some variety of affixes (from M+) to pvp and maybe add some additional challenges. Imagine an AB where boss characters participate (a leader for horde or alliance) that gives you bonus points if you can down them. Not every match- but sometimes (randomly) they appear.

What they really need is someone who is excited about pvp with some good ideas and a strong vision to lead the pvp team. Not knocking anyone, but it just seems like that has been lacking.


They should keep and add to the prestige system. I think they should stay away from making pvp only gear but you should still be able to get a good set of themed (set) gear from pvp that is upgradeable in some way. Maybe a weekly bonus of points towards upgrades based on how many bg's you played or ranking (similar to the weekly chest you get based on highest m+).

[Niwes]

they COULD use gear as reward, like they did in the earlier days. the only difference is, they must do this:

- give 80-85% of max power very fast to the players. lets say the „default set“
- let players progress via pvp to get slowly the last 15% in power to gave a bit reward

in short: exactly what they did with AP in Legion.

so ppl are streamlined and everyone can start in pvp battle at every time, with fair chances. but pvp ppl playing all day, also have some little progress and reward.

cant think of a better system. because

- longterm working power rewards was a fail
- insta full power pvp with no rewards didnt work
- vanity items as a reward didnt work

keep in mind: that last 15% not only have to be dps or survival. it can be things like run speed, 0,5s faster capturing a flag, 5s stealth every 5min, etc etc - just small additions making you better at pvp and inc the win rate, if used in appropriate situations, or just slight permanent improvements etc

[Accendor]

I don't know if "rewards" is the solution for my problem. Maybe just "rewarding"

Let me try and explain my problem:
I love doing Random Battlegrounds. It brings me joy.
But sometimes i ask myself before queuing for a BG..."why am i doing this?"
There is no goal to achieve. There is no purpose. You only do it for the "joy" it brings you.

Why do i buy 50 Honor potions to have an advantage on the battlefield? Why do i take it so seriously?

The solution i found was to make small Youtube PvP Videos.
Because this way my actions had a meaning and an objective...but it was all just a temporary hype. Eventually i got bored (i dont have much editing skills anyway)

So my question to you is if you feel the same as me. "The lack of a purpose to do Battlegrounds"

Possible solutions:
-If by doing Randoom BG's you would get the best gear possible for World PvP, there would be a purpose for doing them. (at least for a while)
Maybe bring resilence back and "gear farm". (i think BfA will have again PvP gear farm but i think there is no resilence)

But this is just a "temporary" solution. You quickly lose pupose again when you farm the entire gear.
Can anyone think of possible solutions for this proplem on the long run?
If you think this is a problem at all.

pVP needs the old gear system back. No progression=not interested.

[FelPlague]

I don't know if "rewards" is the solution for my problem. Maybe just "rewarding"

Let me try and explain my problem:
I love doing Random Battlegrounds. It brings me joy.
But sometimes i ask myself before queuing for a BG..."why am i doing this?"
There is no goal to achieve. There is no purpose. You only do it for the "joy" it brings you.

Why do i buy 50 Honor potions to have an advantage on the battlefield? Why do i take it so seriously?

The solution i found was to make small Youtube PvP Videos.
Because this way my actions had a meaning and an objective...but it was all just a temporary hype. Eventually i got bored (i dont have much editing skills anyway)

So my question to you is if you feel the same as me. "The lack of a purpose to do Battlegrounds"

Possible solutions:
-If by doing Randoom BG's you would get the best gear possible for World PvP, there would be a purpose for doing them. (at least for a while)
Maybe bring resilence back and "gear farm". (i think BfA will have again PvP gear farm but i think there is no resilence)

But this is just a "temporary" solution. You quickly lose pupose again when you farm the entire gear.
Can anyone think of possible solutions for this proplem on the long run?
If you think this is a problem at all.

completely unique sets and mounts that after a few months can no longer be obtained.
compared to sets and mounts that will always be able to be obtained, and 2 expansions later can be gotten in minutes is "not rewarding enough"
random bg's are simply a fn gamemode, they dont need a reward, just like how queing for arena skirmish.
RBG's give the same reward as 3v3s so.

[Schattenlied]

This is where I disagree and feel that there needs to be some kind of middle ground. I love pvping, but too many games in the past have been really unbalanced because one side had people that were using it as a gearing strategy. Nothing worse than a team full of Brutal Gladiator gear and the other side in greens because they're gearing up from PVP. That was a constant reality when I formerly played Alliance.

That said. There does need to be a greater incentive, but I'm not sure of what I'd recommend.

That's easy to do:

PvP gear is again sold from a vendor, you buy the pieces you want with conquest with the stats you want, etc.

Templates are removed, instead, the game now normalizes the stats on your gear to a specific ilvl instead of replacing your stats entirely, exactly how timewalking's ilvl scaling on gear works, and then gives you a 1% increase to those stats for every X ilvl you are above the normalization floor.

All PvP class tuning is now done through adjusting the power of specific abilities on flagged player targets instead of template stats, which as a bonus allows PvP balance measures to function in the open world.

Ilvl matters, stats on gear matter so they can be customized, done. Bonus world PvP balance included.

[Osmeric]

I was super excited for the templates and honor system when Legion was announced, but after pvping for a bit at launch, I haven't touched it.

I knew from the time it was announced that it would be a huge failure.

[Tharkkun]

15% isn't nearly enough for it to feel like anything to grind towards, it's just stale and you never really see it.

But the hardcore pvp crowd. The ones who roflstomped undegeared players all the time asked/begged for a system like guild wars where players were all on the same gear level. So Blizzard did it for the most part. Gear no longer progressed in PVP except for a tiny percent boost which put players within 15% or less power difference. Blizzard should've of not added that caveat and just made it 0% but they felt the change was too drastic to do all at once.

[Deztru]

But the hardcore pvp crowd. The ones who roflstomped undegeared players all the time asked/begged for a system like guild wars where players were all on the same gear level. So Blizzard did it for the most part. Gear no longer progressed in PVP except for a tiny percent boost which put players within 15% or less power difference. Blizzard should've of not added that caveat and just made it 0% but they felt the change was too drastic to do all at once.

Isn't rated PvP enough for that crowd? Where else would they even look forward to playing a fair pvp match?