Why so much hate for Tinkerer?

[Motso]

Here is a personal anecdote that may sum things up.
I do not mind the idea of tinkers, in fact I would probably roll one if they became available.
However, I have seen Teriz post so often, and so passive aggressively about tinkers and why everyones opinions but his own are stupid that I am genuinely annoyed whenever I see Tinkers pop up as a subject of debate.
Its not the concept its the dickhead fans of the concept.

[Teriz]

No, that's not what i said at all: "the profession does not really represent the combat capabilities of a tinker".

But right now both the profession and the class concept are based on the same core theme: crazy mechanical stuff from goblins and gnomes usually presented in a funny way (that i personally like a lot btw). That's why we used to have goblin/gnome specializations and those two races are exactly the first thing that comes to mind if we say tinker.

Incorrect. The profession is based on the theme of creating items and trinkets for sale. The class concept is based on an adventurer that uses inventions and devices to fight with. They share a theme of technology, and that's about it.

So what i'm saying is that for the archetype to work as a class it needs to be detached from that theme and work with a wider scope, have a more serious core theme that can work for more races and have some stuff change with your race, just as shamans or druids.

It's already detached. Characters like Gazlowe and Mekkatorque are clearly not using a profession to fight with, they are obviously a different type of engineer. Further, no other racial leader is a profession, they are all classes (or combinations of classes). Why would the Goblin and Gnome racial leaders be different?

[Motso]

Incorrect. The profession is based on the theme of creating items and trinkets for sale. The class concept is based on an adventurer that uses inventions and devices to fight with. They share a theme of technology, and that's about it.



It's already detached. Characters like Gazlowe and Mekkatorque are clearly not using a profession to fight with, they are obviously a different type of engineer. Further, no other racial leader is a profession, they are all classes (or combinations of classes). Why would the Goblin and Gnome racial leaders be different?

See what I mean?

[Teriz]

Here is a personal anecdote that may sum things up.
I do not mind the idea of tinkers, in fact I would probably roll one if they became available.
However, I have seen Teriz post so often, and so passive aggressively about tinkers and why everyones opinions but his own are stupid that I am genuinely annoyed whenever I see Tinkers pop up as a subject of debate.
Its not the concept its the dickhead fans of the concept.

I would say that believing that a class and a profession is the same thing, or that a class would take anything away from a profession would be a rather stupid opinion, wouldn't you agree?

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See what I mean?

Ah, so it's just the facts that bother you. I understand now.

[PrivateSmiley]

I would say that believing that a class and a profession is the same thing, or that a class would take anything away from a profession would be a rather stupid opinion, wouldn't you agree?

- - - Updated - - -

Ah, so it's just the facts that bother you. I understand now.

Do I see a...
STRAWMAN???
Quick, to the rescue!
--- snip ---

[Teriz]

Do I see a...
STRAWMAN???
Quick, to the rescue!

How's that poll in the other thread working out?

[PrivateSmiley]

How's that poll in the other thread working out?

Another STRAWMAN?!?

I'm more curious as to where you got the idea that i dislike the Tinkerer as a concept to be honest.

[Teriz]

Another STRAWMAN?!?

I'm more curious as to where you got the idea that i dislike the Tinkerer as a concept to be honest.

You put it on the bottom of the class list.

[PrivateSmiley]

You put it on the bottom of the class list.

So placement in a completely arbitrary poll is a cover for hating something?

huh, guess I learned something today.

[Motso]

I would say that believing that a class and a profession is the same thing, or that a class would take anything away from a profession would be a rather stupid opinion, wouldn't you agree?

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Ah, so it's just the facts that bother you. I understand now.

I would say that deliberately misinterpreting what people say in order to continue your petty self absorbed tinker ranting is a pretty shitty thing to do, wouldn't you?
You continually whinge on and on like a petulant child about your very specific ideas and opinions on tinkers, shooting down anyone who doesn't toe the exact line you have in your head with petty childish retorts like Michael Scott.
You spam the shite out of every thread in which Tinkers come up, including the ones you create. You manage to be hostile, self entitled and just plain stupid every. Single. Time. And yet you still carry on like you are an extremely stable genius who is the only one who really gets it.

You personally are the reason many people on MMO-C are against tinkers. You perfectly embody the whingy little shit stirrers that doesn't have the confidence to accept that people disagree with your ideas.

And please, don't give yourself the credit of think you have actually riled me up, I just think someone needed to straight up point out what a petulant little cunt you are.

[Thage]

Hey gang, I'm back. I'd like to thank Teriz for finally getting me off the fence on Tinkers. After carefully reading his posts since my last reply in this thread, and looking at his extensive post history on Tinkers...

I am firmly against them ever being playable. Because fuck you specifically, Teriz. You are everything wrong with this community as it applies to class concepts and a shining example of what happens when someone is too close to 'their baby,' losing all objectivity and taking attacks on their awful homebrew as attacks on them.

You are the sort of player I just had to put up with tonight who wanted to run some fuckass OP homebrew class he found on D&D wiki and threw a temper tantrum when I pointed out all the ways that class is dogshit and decided he would have to stick to PHB races and classes until he figured out how to play the fucking game.

[Teriz]

I would say that deliberately misinterpreting what people say in order to continue your petty self absorbed tinker ranting is a pretty shitty thing to do, wouldn't you?
You continually whinge on and on like a petulant child about your very specific ideas and opinions on tinkers, shooting down anyone who doesn't toe the exact line you have in your head with petty childish retorts like Michael Scott.
You spam the shite out of every thread in which Tinkers come up, including the ones you create. You manage to be hostile, self entitled and just plain stupid every. Single. Time. And yet you still carry on like you are an extremely stable genius who is the only one who really gets it.

You personally are the reason many people on MMO-C are against tinkers. You perfectly embody the whingy little shit stirrers that doesn't have the confidence to accept that people disagree with your ideas.

And please, don't give yourself the credit of think you have actually riled me up, I just think someone needed to straight up point out what a petulant little cunt you are.

Incredible. Everything you just typed is wrong.

Saying that a class isn't the same as a profession isn't an opinion. Nor is pointing out that the Tinker class concept is based on the WC3 Hero, and not the engineering profession. If people get upset that I correct their mistake, that's their issue, not mine.

I haven't created a Tinker thread in over 2 years, just FYI.

A vocal minority are against the Tinker class, and they dislike the concept for a myriad of reasons. However, based on pretty much every head to head class poll, the Tinker wins the poll, if not utterly dominating it.

Finally I never said that I riled you up, I just said that you seem to have a problem with facts. Your post only further supports that original assessment.

[PrivateSmiley]

Incredible. Everything you just typed is wrong.

Saying that a class isn't the same as a profession isn't an opinion. Nor is pointing out that the Tinker class concept is based on the WC3 Hero, and not the engineering profession. If people get upset that I correct their mistake, that's their issue, not mine.

I haven't created a Tinker thread in over 2 years, just FYI.

A vocal minority are against the Tinker class, and they dislike the concept for a myriad of reasons. However, based on pretty much every head to head class poll, the Tinker wins the poll, if not utterly dominating it.

Finally I never said that I riled you up, I just said that you seem to have a problem with facts. Your post only further supports that original assessment.

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...st-Ranged-Tank

uhhhh, that's not 2 years Captain.
333 days, 8 hours and counting, to be precise.

[Teriz]

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...st-Ranged-Tank

uhhhh, that's not 2 years Captain.

Ah yes, I forgot about that one. So make it almost a year since my last Tinker thread.

[Polarthief]

I wish they'd scrap Engineering as a profession since *so* many of its previously unique QoL features are now available w/o being an Engineer, and they could give the tools of it to a Tinker instead. Some of the still kinda important stuff like Hunter scopes would be made by another profession instead (maybe Blacksmith? Hell maybe even Enchanters could make the "enchant" and the scopes are a vendor item; you attach the enchant to the scope). Teleporter items would become a quest you can do to permanently unlock it (like Winterspring, Tanaris, etc).

I also think Tinker could dabble in old, scrapped, Alchemy recipes, like old regen pots and whatnot. It could get a healing spec that is essentially a mix of Engineer from TF2 with a mix of Alchemy stuff like throwing potions on the ground to cause AoE healing, throwing potions at people to heal them, and other science-y stuff that you could use to heal.

Tinker would be an awesome class. Tank, Healer, Ranged. Big ass cooldown would be somewhat like DH's Meta where you actually get in a mech suit (if could even be a vehicle) and you get different abilities based on your spec.

There's so much you could do with it and not very much wiggle room left for other new classes.

[Ielenia]

I would say that believing that a class and a profession is the same thing,

Let me educate you on something you seemingly refuse to understand:

Gameplay is not lore. A "player profession" is not different from a "player class" in the lore.

[Teriz]

Let me educate you on something you seemingly refuse to understand:

Gameplay is not lore. A "player profession" is not different from a "player class" in the lore.

Except I’m talking about Gameplay, not lore. Professions are literally not the same as classes.

[Tatakau]

Wouldn't it be better for people that want that class to spam that they don't want it, that way blizz will introduce it.

[qwerty123456]

Ah yes, I forgot about that one. So make it almost a year since my last Tinker thread.

And how many weeks since a thinly veiled thread designed to steer towards tinker talk?

[Teriz]

I wish they'd scrap Engineering as a profession since *so* many of its previously unique QoL features are now available w/o being an Engineer, and they could give the tools of it to a Tinker instead. Some of the still kinda important stuff like Hunter scopes would be made by another profession instead (maybe Blacksmith? Hell maybe even Enchanters could make the "enchant" and the scopes are a vendor item; you attach the enchant to the scope). Teleporter items would become a quest you can do to permanently unlock it (like Winterspring, Tanaris, etc).

Engineering wouldn’t be negatively impacted by a Tinker class since professions and classes perform two completely different roles in the game and don’t compete with one another. Heck, you can roll into the engineering profession as a Tinker class.

In fact, the inclusion of a Tinker class would enhance engineering, not harm it. How? Since they both share the tech theme, Engineering could make things like mods for your mech, or unique Tinker armor, weapons, or equipment.

So yeah, there would be no need to do away with engineering.

Beyond that I agree with you; The Tinker concept is very wide open.