5,800 Workers Voting to Unionize Their Amazon Facility

[Shalcker]

Good for them.

Voting goes until March 29, it'll be interesting to see where this goes.

[Zan15]

Well good on them, Amazon has a history of overworking their workers.
But then again I wouldn’t be surprised if Amazon decides to try to fully automate the facility to spite the workers.

Making them actually work 7-7.25 of the 8 hours they are supposed to is overworking now ?



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BTW i totally support this
A lot of low wage workers are so stupid not to unionize

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What is to stop them from closing the Facility and effectively firing everyone then re-opening at a later date a few months later with new workers?

Labor laws? Though i know in my state its "technically" kinda sorta illegal to layoff and rehire under the same job, but there are so many loopholes around this just with "reclassification" of the job and responsibilities.

Also the cost of having to pay unemployment on 8000 workers and having to retrain hundred's if not thousands....

They would also have the extra cost of having to work the excess out of Atlanta and other warehouse. They all seem more expensive then This one

[Specialka]

Okay but if threats of punishment and harmful repercussions are a valid negotiation/bargaining tactic then that also means they are valid for the employer when they are negotiating and bargaining with pro-union people. You can't say that a union can threaten to withhold labor if the employer doesn't offer more compensation and then say the employer can't threaten to withhold the work opportunity and pay of pro-union people. Unless you just want to straight-up admit that what you want is a double standard and not logical consistency across the board.

Hum no ? It is so employees can bargain on equal term with employers. How unionized people could bargain if they did not have some "kind of protection" ?

[PC2]

Hum no ? It is so employees can bargain on equal term with employers.

Okay but that doesn't change the fact that bargaining should be about two sides coming to a mutual and voluntary agreement that isn't based on one side threatening to hurt the other side for having different opinions about compensation.

How unionized people could bargain if they did not have some "kind of protection" ?

I never had a problem bargaining/negotiating back when I was a (non-union) employee. My protection was that I was hard to replace. If a person doesn't have that protection and they want better compensation then they are probably over-valuing the worth of their labor.

[Edge-]

Okay but that doesn't change the fact that bargaining should be about two sides coming to a mutual and voluntary agreement that isn't based on one side threatening to hurt the other side for having different opinions about compensation.

That's literally the goal of negotiations. Those threats of layoffs/strikes etc. are all negotiating tools.

I never had a problem bargaining/negotiating back when I was a (non-union) employee. My protection was that I was hard to replace. If a person doesn't have that protection then they are probably over-valuing the worth of their labor.

No, they're not. That's, again, the point of unions.

[Tazkar]

Okay but that doesn't change the fact that bargaining should be about two sides coming to a mutual and voluntary agreement that isn't based on one side threatening to hurt the other side for having different opinions about compensation.


I never had a problem bargaining/negotiating back when I was a (non-union) employee. My protection was that I was hard to replace. If a person doesn't have that protection and they want better compensation then they are probably over-valuing the worth of their labor.

It's impossible for everyone to have protection of 'being hard to replace' because the nature of jobs and work is that you are going to have a much larger pool of non specialized work that is easily replaced because they are jobs that aren't specialized or require extensive training.

It's really not overvaluing the worth of the labor, given how in many of these jobs if all those people decided they weren't going to put up with the shit from management anymore and decided not work. Then the Company would be fucked because those non specialized jobs are the backbone of the entire company, lifting it up for years while the CEOs pay themselves millions in bonuses for their own 'stellar' work while shafting all the employees that made their accomplishments possible to begin with.

An individual Cog is easily replaced, but all the gears fucking off is exceedingly harder.

[Specialka]

Okay but that doesn't change the fact that bargaining should be about two sides coming to a mutual and voluntary agreement that isn't based on one side threatening to hurt the other side for having different opinions about compensation.


I never had a problem bargaining/negotiating back when I was a (non-union) employee. My protection was that I was hard to replace. If a person doesn't have that protection and they want better compensation then they are probably over-valuing the worth of their labor.

So you think the employers would voluntarily give something to his employees ? If he can squizze them for more money without any repercussions, he will.

And I won't even respond about the part about "non qualified" worker, that is quite disgusting honestly.

[Shadowferal]

I never had a problem bargaining/negotiating back when I was a (non-union) employee. My protection was that I was hard to replace. If a person doesn't have that protection and they want better compensation then they are probably over-valuing the worth of their labor.

Yeah..we already know that if you haven't experienced "the problem," then you can't relate to others when they experience "the problem." Your utter lack of empathy for Joe Average neatly puts you on the side of big business...where we all knew you'd be.

[Felya]

I never had a problem bargaining/negotiating back when I was a (non-union) employee. My protection was that I was hard to replace. If a person doesn't have that protection and they want better compensation then they are probably over-valuing the worth of their labor.

How much more were you making, as opposed to others in your position? Let’s define the value of “hard to replace”...

[kamuimac]

The whole point of a union is to make it possible for workers to bargain on more equal terms, or in your words a more logical consistency across the board.

If I tell my employer I'm not willing to work for salary X I'm not being coercive or threatening. I'm not punishing them or harming them. What the hell is your thought process here?

you can always go work somewhere else then

im sure that specialist of such degree is worth more everywhere exept for company you currently work for.

and so can they

[Elegiac]

you can always go work somewhere else then

The fact unemployment exists shows that no, actually, you can't.

Now if participation in the labor market were voluntary then yes, you could - but chances are Amazon wouldn't be able to find anyone willing to work for minimum wage in horrific conditions.

[unfilteredJW]

The fact unemployment exists shows that no, actually, you can't.

Lazy blah blah not smart with money blah blah should have planned better blah blah

slash jerk off motion

[kamuimac]

An individual Cog is easily replaced, but all the gears fucking off is exceedingly harder.

well technically almost everyone can be replaced - most more easily then they think .

the question is always the same - is it worth it . and if that person has already multiple alternatives / "escape route" that would let him land on similiar/better position.

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The fact unemployment exists shows that no, actually, you can't.

Now if participation in the labor market were voluntary then yes, you could - but chances are Amazon wouldn't be able to find anyone willing to work for minimum wage in horrific conditions.

this could be very interesting topic. especially that even academics track this with interest.

before covid pandemic started most of countries of west had next to none actual unemployement. most of people who were unemployed were such by choice - most of time living of social support programs. or refusing to accept job offers because they felt that they are "beneath" them and their dignity .

some of academics suggest that unemploeynt rates of +/- 5 % show that there is no real unemployement at all. just one "from choice"

[Elegiac]

most of people who were unemployed were such by choice

No, they weren't. "Some academics" are Austrian-school economists and their opinions belong in the trash along with phrenology and Malthusianism.

[kamuimac]

No, they weren't. "Some academics" are Austrian-school economists and their opinions belong in the trash along with phrenology and Malthusianism.

so you are gonna purposedly ignore huge amount of "forever unemployed living of social support programs " people in many western countries so it fits your narrative got it. and huge amount of immigration with sole purpose of living of such programs that those countries experience (it was one of main reasons Brexit happened - by hey lets ignore it sure why not)

im sure people paying taxes who sponsor such living are ok with it too - that their taxes are wasted instead put into healthcare of education systems.

yes i get it - it has nothing to do with this particular case. but its not some imaginary problem of Austrian school economics

[Acidbaron]

The whole point of a union is to make it possible for workers to bargain on more equal terms, or in your words a more logical consistency across the board.

If I tell my employer I'm not willing to work for salary X I'm not being coercive or threatening. I'm not punishing them or harming them. What the hell is your thought process here?

Boomers who saw a constant increase in wage for their low skilled jobs during a boom can't understand today's issues.

Anyone not working under an union is a fool in my opinion. Especially when they are nation wide organized.

[SirBeef]

so you are gonna purposedly ignore huge amount of "forever unemployed living of social support programs " people in many western countries so it fits your narrative got it. and huge amount of immigration with sole purpose of living of such programs that those countries experience (it was one of main reasons Brexit happened - by hey lets ignore it sure why not)

im sure people paying taxes who sponsor such living are ok with it too - that their taxes are wasted instead put into healthcare of education systems.

yes i get it - it has nothing to do with this particular case. but its not some imaginary problem of Austrian school economics

Cite your evidence before we accept your "facts".

[Elegiac]

That seems like a weird assumption, in my experience it's extremely easy to find many people willing to work in horrible conditions even below minimum wage (often immigrants).

Man it’s almost as it participation in the labor force is non-optional which is why the incentive to do this exists in the first place.

You’re not actually countering what I said. Glad to see you dropped the progressive shtick and are now openly repeating right wing arguments, tho.

[Dezerte]

you can always go work somewhere else then

im sure that specialist of such degree is worth more everywhere exept for company you currently work for.

and so can they

That's one of the purposes of a union, to increase the value of their labour.

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Boomers who saw a constant increase in wage for their low skilled jobs during a boom can't understand today's issues.

Anyone not working under an union is a fool in my opinion. Especially when they are nation wide organized.

It's not just boomers I think, but yeah.

[downnola]

Boomers who saw a constant increase in wage for their low skilled jobs during a boom can't understand today's issues.

Anyone not working under an union is a fool in my opinion. Especially when they are nation wide organized.

Your opinion is trash because unionization isn't a real option for everyone.

Should all workers unionize? Yes.
Can they without massive pushback from capital? Obviously not.