Influencers got their will, Bliz listened to their feedback, yet noone plays game

[Inoculate]

That isn't how it works...its not how it ever worked.

We are not kin even though we play the same game. WoW's endgame has always been dungeons>raid. World content is that annoying thing players quite over because it had rep requirements for tedious and boring quests. People who genuniely enjoy world content in wow cant be compared to mythic raiders...their are too few of them. Its better to compare them to glads.

Bots keep the mats flowing and honestly its a better system for it. Pay pigs buying tokens pay for carries its always been the case there is a reason up to wod carries where very rare and not overly sought after.

People who play wow as a single player game are just not its audience and never have been. Ever attempt to get players who enjoy a mmo as a multipler game into the world has been an unmidigated disaster from legion to bfa to shadowlands nightmare grinds that injuired the game badly. Your era if it ever existed is past... its time to move on.

I don't hate you I just understand why you will never ever be focus on again and its for the greater good.

Lol, looking at raider numbers, it's your population that's the minority, not casuals. Sorry you feel entitled and that the game focuses around you but the numbers don't lie.

Look at raid clears historically and tell me raiders are the bread and butter of WoW.

[Soon-TM]

WoD was the expansion that was targeted at non raiders... it had a gear progression path based on time alone via the garrison they begged to have for years. It had heroic level gear availble for the first time via apex crystals. It covered the map in rare spawns dropping mounts and treasures and still has arguably the best leveling experience.

The problem with WoD was it gave the non raider, non dungeon player everything they claimed to want so they quite the game not having anything else to do. WoDs only flaw from what I can recall for that group was that and the last tier dragging on to long.

Wrong at all levels. The "free gear" from garrisons that people like you love to parrot about required you to have killed at least 8 bosses from the current raid and corresponding difficulty, so it was more akin to an early prototype of the weekly vault rather than any eP1x iN TeH MAiL nonsense. Of course, you had absolutely nothing else to do at endgame when it came to progression - no professions (you didn't really need them, not even alchemy, since you got pots/elixirs pretty much for free at the garrison), no dungeons, almost no dailies, no nothing... Except raids, and even then the most played stage by far, i.e. LFR, was nerfed into oblivion rewards-wise. Much like 10.0 DF, WoD was a raid logger's wet dream made true.

Yes, casual-oriented indeed lmao.

[trimble]

Lol, looking at raider numbers, it's your population that's the minority, not casuals. Sorry you feel entitled and that the game focuses around you but the numbers don't lie.

Look at raid clears historically and tell me raiders are the bread and butter of WoW.

It isn't and its higher then single players... wow is played by people who enjoy a multipler game and it exists as a dungeon and raid gauntlet. Always has likely always will. The witcher 3 or cyber punk are single player games they will always be better then wow without a sub for single players.

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Wrong at all levels. The "free gear" from garrisons that people like you love to parrot about required you to have killed at least 8 bosses from the current raid and corresponding difficulty, so it was more akin to an early prototype of the weekly vault rather than any eP1x iN TeH MAiL nonsense. Of course, you had absolutely nothing else to do at endgame when it came to progression - no professions (you didn't really need them, not even alchemy, since you got pots/elixirs pretty much for free at the garrison), no dungeons, almost no dailies, no nothing... Except raids, and even then the most played stage by far, i.e. LFR, was nerfed into oblivion rewards-wise. Much like 10.0 DF, WoD was a raid logger's wet dream made true.

Yes, casual-oriented indeed lmao.

You move on from ignoring content to talking about reward power. You will never ever get better items then you are now for trivial world content. Shadowlands was the deathknell for trying to force players into world content. It will be a long time before wow cripples its majority playerbase to appease "world" players.

[Inoculate]

It isn't and its higher then single players... wow is played by people who enjoy a multipler game and it exists as a dungeon and raid gauntlet. Always has likely always will. The witcher 3 or cyber punk are single player games they will always be better then wow without a sub for single players.

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You move on from ignoring content to talking about reward power. You will never ever get better items then you are now for trivial world content. Shadowlands was the deathknell for trying to force players into world content. It will be a long time before wow cripples its majority playerbase to appease "world" players.

https://www.mmo-champion.com/content...Tweets-DLC-423

Lets take WoD as an example as we have decent data to pull and it's an expansion defined as having only raids that made it playable.

They pulled data from only active accounts and didnt count multiple characters so 2.5 million accounts were discovered and checked, which gave:

63% of players had completed at least one LFR boss.
33.4% of players had completed at least one Normal boss.
19.3% of players had completed at least one Heroic boss.
7% of players had completed at least one Mythic boss.

So even if they only cleared one boss, they were given a clear.

Still think raiders are the lion share of players?

[Bigbamboozal]

For years influencers have complained about all the "main stream" issues about the game. Like "REMOVE BORROWED POWERS" and "REMOVE MANDATORY CONTENT".

Just to be specific, I am talking about people in this sphere:
- Asmongold
- Preachgaming
- Belluar
- T&E

Just to be clear, those influencers are just echoing how they see their communities talk, so it's more of a community thing. I am not trying to hate on the influencers.

Influencers have made video after video complaining about the same things and tunnelvisioned on certain things like

- no more borrowed power
- no more required content that force you to log in every day
- no more infinite AP grinds
- no more Sylvanas
- more focus on permanent systems like
* talent system
* battlepass system
* crafting system
* flying system
- more communication about the future patches and plans

We all know the list they dreamed of is kinda accomplished in Dragonflight.

Influencers no longer have anything specific to complain about. Great, I guess the game is so fun now?

Because to me it seems they all have never played the game as little as they do in this expansion.

And the influencers have just conveniently moved on to other games, while simutatiously have nothing to complain about. "I'm just not that into the game right now".

I seriously worry that Blizzard took the influencers feedback way too seriously to heart, but the reality is that following them does not make a game that people want to play.

What do you think?

I'm pretty sure you answered your own question: "moved onto other games" and "nothing to complain about"
Remember that anger, upset, and outrage drive clicks much more effectively than a happy and content community does, which is exactly what they are aiming to do on many forms of social media, including many 'influencers'
More clicks = more money, and drives their sponsors, many of whom pay them thousands of dollars for 30 seconds of advertising in their vid; and if you're seeking to pay for your existence with being an influencer, you go where the money is.

[Jastall]

Vanilla had tons of world content. Lots of rep grinds, outdoor dungeons, questlines that spanned both continents. TBC brought dailies with shattari skyguard and netherwing to name a few. Not to mentiom the isle of queldanas and its unique raid unlock.

Just because you dont engage with content doesnt mean it never existed nor should.

Wow's always had a bunch of world content. Dragonflight is no exception and certainly isn't close to max level Cata or WoD's level of no world content.

What it never had, is full progression for world content. It's designed to be fairly easy and reward some gear but mostly cosmetics. That's how it was even in vanilla and TBC, and has continued to be ever since. Blizzard tried to make it relevant to player power with AP and such but ended up fatiguing players with the grind. So now it's back to world content being used mainly for cosmetics, alongside enough gear to get any player by.

[Inoculate]

Wow's always had a bunch of world content. Dragonflight is no exception and certainly isn't close to max level Cata or WoD's level of no world content.

What it never had, is full progression for world content. It's designed to be fairly easy and reward some gear but mostly cosmetics. That's how it was even in vanilla and TBC, and has continued to be ever since. Blizzard tried to make it relevant to player power with AP and such but ended up fatiguing players with the grind. So now it's back to world content being used mainly for cosmetics, alongside enough gear to get any player by.

No where did I state you should be able to progress and gear via world content. You assumed that. I just am pointing out that people who say that most players in WoW are raiders is just flat out wrong.

Blizzard should allocate more resources to make more story and world content instead of time gating it so it feels like there's more to do in the game.

More mage tower, make older raids scaleable scenarios for 1 - 5 players. Even if just for transmog to make those tmog runs more fun and engaging instead of loot pinatas where your biggest foe is running between bosses.

Not saying i should get gear from that. Just more content to play if I want to dobit between raids, pvp or whatever. That way it remains optional but does give players more incentive to play.

[GabrielKnight]

make older raids scaleable scenarios for 1 - 5 players. Even if just for transmog to make those tmog runs more fun and engaging instead of loot pinatas where your biggest foe is running between bosses.

That would be awesome, not gonna lie. With proper scaling it could provide massive amounts of contents.

[Jastall]

No where did I state you should be able to progress and gear via world content. You assumed that. I just am pointing out that people who say that most players in WoW are raiders is just flat out wrong.

Blizzard should allocate more resources to make more story and world content instead of time gating it so it feels like there's more to do in the game.

More mage tower, make older raids scaleable scenarios for 1 - 5 players. Even if just for transmog to make those tmog runs more fun and engaging instead of loot pinatas where your biggest foe is running between bosses.

Not saying i should get gear from that. Just more content to play if I want to dobit between raids, pvp or whatever. That way it remains optional but does give players more incentive to play.

You assume I said you did. I merely said that's the form world content takes in this game. Dragonflight has a lot of grinds for cosmetics and a fair number of max level story quests, even if there could definitely be more. They added more content with every patch so far between the Primalist future, Forbidden Reach and now Zaralek. Only the story campaign of that last one was at all timegated; if you ground for renown like a madman you accessed a lot of DF stuff week 1.

Most people aren't raiders, but also most people aren't PvPers or dungeoneers or story people or dedicated world questers or profession focused either. Most players take a bite of most content, with a minority focusing on progressing within one or more of the branches. The only thing everyone does is leveling, mostly because you have to do it and it's done by various means these days.

Besides of which, mage tower and older raids aren't world content, they're both instanced.

[trimble]

https://www.mmo-champion.com/content...Tweets-DLC-423

Lets take WoD as an example as we have decent data to pull and it's an expansion defined as having only raids that made it playable.

They pulled data from only active accounts and didnt count multiple characters so 2.5 million accounts were discovered and checked, which gave:

63% of players had completed at least one LFR boss.
33.4% of players had completed at least one Normal boss.
19.3% of players had completed at least one Heroic boss.
7% of players had completed at least one Mythic boss.

So even if they only cleared one boss, they were given a clear.

Still think raiders are the lion share of players?

I think dungeons and raids are the bread and butter of the game yes... Its weird to take wod as an example as to date even with SL I don't think any other expansion had as much out of raid content to do...

Its weird. You hold up the meaty extra large world content expansions with all the fixings and say " see, see how a raid and dungeon only expansion fails?"

Im not sure how to argue something so clearly and utterly wrong that it effectly redefines what words mean.

[Revamp Man]

I think dungeons and raids are the bread and butter of the game yes... Its weird to take wod as an example as to date even with SL I don't think any other expansion had as much out of raid content to do...

Its weird. You hold up the meaty extra large world content expansions with all the fixings and say " see, see how a raid and dungeon only expansion fails?"

Im not sure how to argue something so clearly and utterly wrong that it effectly redefines what words mean.

content outside of raid WoD had:
trigger garrison invasions
farm valor in mythic dungeons
jungle dailies and the garrison daily
garrison building dailies

content that progressed your character in WoD:
raids
mythic dungeons that led into lfr

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are people really saying watcher is against casuals??
the dude that used the line "trials deserve loot too"
the dude that was ok with one shot mythic mechanics
the dude that was there for the benthic shuffle??

[Inoculate]

I think dungeons and raids are the bread and butter of the game yes... Its weird to take wod as an example as to date even with SL I don't think any other expansion had as much out of raid content to do...

Its weird. You hold up the meaty extra large world content expansions with all the fixings and say " see, see how a raid and dungeon only expansion fails?"

Im not sure how to argue something so clearly and utterly wrong that it effectly redefines what words mean.

Care to elaborate what those activities were?

[VMSmith]

So now it's back to world content being used mainly for cosmetics, alongside enough gear to get any player by.

No where did I state you should be able to progress and gear via world content.

Are either of you actually playing Dragonflight? Because right now gearing via non-organized content is the best it's ever been, even better than MoP, which was a high-water mark for non-organized players. World content, LFR, Heroic dungeons ... all of them contribute to a steady gearing progression that can quite happily keep the most-casual of players busy for months. I should know, I am one of those players

The gearing system of 10.1 feels like Blizzard finally found a system that works for everybody without pissing off anybody.

[Soon-TM]

The gearing system of 10.1 feels like Blizzard finally found a system that works for everybody without pissing off anybody.

If devs keep upholding 10.1-like mechanics in the future (hopefully without requiring 45689346205 types of currency), I could very well see myself returning for 11.0... Assuming that 10.1 isn't just a fluke, of course.

[Glorious Leader]

WoD was the expansion that was targeted at non raiders...

The most revisionist history possible. It was CLEARLY targeted for raiders, more specifically people who only wanted to raid and do nothing else.

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I think dungeons and raids are the bread and butter of the game yes...

And I imagine the developers feel the exact same way but are for some reason bound by the convention that the world of warcraft must actually contain a world. Just make a fucking log in zone and then nothing but dungeons and raids next expansion. Its clear thats all they value. And even at at that its worth noting that they only made like 4 new dungeons this expansions. Game feels cheap because it is cheap. Imagine how much money they could save if they just said hey guys we're renaming the game to instances of warcraft.

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If devs keep upholding 10.1-like mechanics in the future (hopefully without requiring 45689346205 types of currency), I could very well see myself returning for 11.0... Assuming that 10.1 isn't just a fluke, of course.

Too many fucking currencies is a problem so is too many mats and bloated crafting systems with multiple layers of bullshit to navigate. All of this can be simplified. The upgrade system is nice though. It functions as an means of alternate progression although I think its a bit poor. Its clear the game still wants to shove you towards m+ and raids but at least its not the ONLY thing.

[crusadernero]

Vanilla had tons of world content. Lots of rep grinds, outdoor dungeons, questlines that spanned both continents. TBC brought dailies with shattari skyguard and netherwing to name a few. Not to mentiom the isle of queldanas and its unique raid unlock.

Just because you dont engage with content doesnt mean it never existed nor should.

same argument can be made throughout whole wows lifetime. All these things excists in each and every xpac.

[Stickiler]

And even at at that its worth noting that they only made like 4 new dungeons this expansions. Game feels cheap because it is cheap. Imagine how much money they could save if they just said hey guys we're renaming the game to instances of warcraft.

Where did you pull that number from? There are 8 brand new dungeons at the moment, and a mega dungeon coming next patch too.

[trimble]

Care to elaborate what those activities were?

Well yeah its easy to...

The world was cramed to the brim with treasures and rares for players to hunt out. There were dangerous areas that where rather difficult to even enter solo and a ton of work was put into making interesting toys and mounts littered through the zone. There were dynampic quest lines... apex gear the first time I can recall world players had access to such powerful gear.

Wods warning was that if you make a warcraft expansion for world players...the entire playerbase will scream no content and rage. It was the early warning sign that an expansion like shadowlands was doomed to fail.

I legit think there are a minimum of a dozen secret rares you are utterly unkowning about in wod while claiming you love world content

[Inoculate]

Well yeah its easy to...

The world was cramed to the brim with treasures and rares for players to hunt out. There were dangerous areas that where rather difficult to even enter solo and a ton of work was put into making interesting toys and mounts littered through the zone. There were dynampic quest lines... apex gear the first time I can recall world players had access to such powerful gear.

Wods warning was that if you make a warcraft expansion for world players...the entire playerbase will scream no content and rage. It was the early warning sign that an expansion like shadowlands was doomed to fail.

I legit think there are a minimum of a dozen secret rares you are utterly unkowning about in wod while claiming you love world content

How wrong one person can be...

[trimble]

How wrong one person can be...

Then explain how... the world is littered with puzzles that require multiple people to work together...secrets,rares, zones to group up and farm more dangerous mobs, special summonable bosses.

All you are telling me is you wanna break the game from getting op rewards and that should never happen. You can't come up with a coherant list of what you consider good world content without shouting " NUMBERS GO UP"